Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
It's interesting that they both finished with a 70-6 W/L record given that Djokovic's 2011 seemed so much more spectacular at the time. Incredible season from Sinner all the same.
Djokovic 2011 vs Sinner 2024
- Thread starter Winner Sinner
- Start date
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
No, Sinner still has one (minimum) to three (maximum) matches available in the Davis Cup to do even better or worse than Djokovic in 2011.
The only sure thing is that they won't end up with the exact same record, barring unexpected last-minute forfeits.
TheFifthSet
Legend
Regrettably may have come off a bit rude myself, but I disagree even with a lot of the finer print…it wasn’t unthinkable to me, heck even ‘16 Murray had similar match stats (much lower DR and SGW yeah, but slightly higher GW%/much higher RGW% over 13 more matches).
It’s a great season but ‘11 Djokovic is maybe the gold standard blend of match-stat/calendar/H2H over good opposition dominance. I personally don’t see much use in comparing them.
Last edited:
Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
I’m just waiting for the blessing from the highest spiritual authorities of tennis on steroids
It has been to some extent and we should see a return to the mean. Maybe the latter might be masked by an underlining improvement.
roysid
Legend
Ultimately the numbers equalled 70-6 but you cannot compare sinners season to Djokovic 2011. That was an unimaginable peak. In history the only comparable ones are Mcenroe 84 and Federer 2005.
Djokovic went to FO undefeated with 41 match wins. And by US open completion, he had lost just 2 matches. Won 3 slams and many masters . And these wins have come by beating Nadal and Fed who were at their prime.
Now after US Open he was at 64-2. Then at davis cup he suffered that back injury against delpotro. He was derailed and had 6-4 record after that.
While Sinner started well to win AO and Miami. But from Miami to Wimbledon he was generally overshadowed by alcaraz. He rolled over the opposition post us open to reach 70-6.
It's definitely very good but cannot reach the impact of Djokovic 2011
Djokovic went to FO undefeated with 41 match wins. And by US open completion, he had lost just 2 matches. Won 3 slams and many masters . And these wins have come by beating Nadal and Fed who were at their prime.
Now after US Open he was at 64-2. Then at davis cup he suffered that back injury against delpotro. He was derailed and had 6-4 record after that.
While Sinner started well to win AO and Miami. But from Miami to Wimbledon he was generally overshadowed by alcaraz. He rolled over the opposition post us open to reach 70-6.
It's definitely very good but cannot reach the impact of Djokovic 2011
Dominic & Andrey
Legend
2011 Djokovic would never go 0-3 to Carlitos, although to Sinner's credit those three matches were all heavily contested, but still. Sinner's season has been admirable mostly because of his consistently very high floor, but peak for peak I really doubt he would do much damage to 2011 Djoker.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
So in the economy of Djokovic's 2011 season do we take into account the back problems that affected his season finale, while deliberately ignoring the hip problems that affected Sinner's 2024 clay season?
Before losing at Wimbledon against Medvedev, an opponent who beat 8 of the last 9 matches, Sinner had a season record of 42-3, and among those 3 defeats there was the one against Tsitsipas in Monte Carlo decided by a sensational refereeing oversight which prevented Sinner from going ahead by two breaks in the decisive third set.
Defeat against Medvedev at Wimbledon occurred after a sleepless night and an illness during the match.
All 6 of Sinner's defeats in 2024 came in the decisive set in rather evenly balanced matches.
He played 17 tournaments, winning 8 of them, or 45%, and in one of those where he didn't win he had to withdraw before playing the quarter-finals (Madrid).
Obviously Djokovic's 10-1 2011 vs Fedal 2011 is much more impressive, but Sinner 2024, as those data demonstrate, also did very well against the top 5 having an 11-4 record and 11-1 without Alcaraz.
He has never done worse than the quarter-finals in a tournament, he has always won at least one set in every match played, he has never lost against a player not ranked in the top 12.
Is all this enough to put Sinner 2024 on the same level as Djokovic 2011?
Absolutely not.
Is this a statistical comparison that makes sense?
Absolutely yes.
Sinner 2024 did not have the performance peaks of Djokovic 2011 but was more constant and his streaks demonstrate this, 7-0, 12-0, 16-1, 22-1, 25-2, 28-2, 33 -3, 38-3, 42-4, 44-5, 48-5, 55-5, 59-6, 65-6, 70-6.
roysid
Legend
You can argue in that way but from your post the absolute peaks or a stellar record like 10-1 against Fedal isnt there. Dont forget slams 3 vs 2 and titles 10 vs 8.
Djokovic 2011 was something else, a magnitude very rarely experienced and not just by numbers.
I would say Sinner 2024 was closer to federer 2007.
I know you are die hard fan of Sinner, so you may like to see in a different way, so be it.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
But if I precisely said that the peaks of Djokovic 2011 were higher than those of Sinner 2024.
Just as I was the first to say that Djokovic's 2011 is indisputably superior.
I am only responding to those who maintain that it makes no sense to make comparisons, from a statistical point of view the comparison is certainly valid.
I repeat, Sinner 2024 was more consistent and would also have more mitigating factors on its side.
He will also have a 0-3 with Alcaraz, but in each of those defeats he lost in the decisive set, while for example Djokovic lost in 4 sets to Federer in the Roland Garros semi-final in 2011.
For the rest in this 2024 against the 4 strongest rivals after Alcaraz (Djokovic, Medvedev, Zverev and Fritz) his record is 11-1.
If we divide Sinner's 2024 into 4 equal segments, then 76:4= 19
First series of 19 games = 18-1
Second series of 19 games = 17-2
Third series of 19 games = 17-2
Fourth series of 19 games = 18-1
Consistency, always a constant pace.
As well as the winning streaks, one of 16, one of 15, two of 9, one of 8, plus the current one still open of 11.
In summary, Sinner's winning streaks in 2024;
16
15
11(still in progress)
9
9
8
Losing streak = 1
zakopinjo
Professional
I would rather say Novak 2008
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
Aside from the statistical comparison, I think that the thing that should scare the competition the most from a future perspective regarding Sinner is his escalation which was even more disruptive than that of Djokovic in 2011.
Djokovic's 2011 season was better and there is no doubt about it, but the 2011 Djokovic was starting from a much higher 2007-2010 base than the 2021-2023 Sinner.
Pre 2010 Djokovic had already won a slam, plus if I'm not mistaken 5 masters 1000, plus 2 lost slam finals, to which add the victory of the 2008 ATP Finals.
While Sinner pre 2024 only had a masters 1000 plus a semi-final as his best result in the slams.
No one knows how far this escalation of Sinner will take him.
He is obsessed with perfection, in this regard I report yesterday's statements from his coach Vagnozzi in the comment below.
Djokovic's 2011 season was better and there is no doubt about it, but the 2011 Djokovic was starting from a much higher 2007-2010 base than the 2021-2023 Sinner.
Pre 2010 Djokovic had already won a slam, plus if I'm not mistaken 5 masters 1000, plus 2 lost slam finals, to which add the victory of the 2008 ATP Finals.
While Sinner pre 2024 only had a masters 1000 plus a semi-final as his best result in the slams.
No one knows how far this escalation of Sinner will take him.
He is obsessed with perfection, in this regard I report yesterday's statements from his coach Vagnozzi in the comment below.
Last edited:
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
Simone Vagnozzi held a press conference after Jannik Sinner's extraordinary success at the Nitto ATP Finals 2024. The coach's statements were interesting, on the tournament and on the growth of his client.
"It's an exceptional victory, it's as important as winning a Slam and even more so this year since we couldn't play in Italy in Rome".
"We would have signed to have results like these"
"The coach's job is to understand what needs to be changed. He is really quick to understand and put it into practice quickly. We are really happy with our journey together, it's a team effort that we do every day".
"Darren and I are very calm during the matches, Jannik is not someone who likes to hear too many words during matches, just small pieces of advice. This year we've had many great days, but usually he is very calm because he works well during training, he is confident and knows he can play great matches. Taylor is doing very well, but we had confidence that he could play a great match".
"The serve? We arrived and he had his feet separated, but we thought with Darren that the foot up (feet close together) was the best movement. We lowered the ball toss and we worked a lot since that loss in Paris. He has more torsion on his shoulders, he pushes more, his percentages have improved a lot, already in Shanghai he had very good percentages. His first serve can still stabilize”.
“If he surprises us? He arrives home, with everyone's eyes on him, and he plays these matches. Since day one he has had an excellent level. As you progress the details to improve are smaller and smaller.
With Medvedev for example he used the backhand well, he can do more serve and volley, and he understands the game better. He changed position a lot on the return today, he is starting to be a very strong tennis player also tactically, not just a great hitter”.
“Sinner is exceptional in what you don't see... outside the tournament. How he warms up, how he pays attention to the trainers, he has a desire inside to get as high as possible and he doesn't want regrets, he's never satisfied, he's always on the ball, his exceptionality is his dedication to the sport".
"I don't even want to think about the possibility of a disqualification. He doesn't deserve any of this, he doesn't deserve to be stopped because he hasn't done anything wrong. We're focusing on the next tournament, Malaga is coming soon and we'll have to recharge our batteries to be at our best in 2025".
"Before the match we prepare tactical plans, with scenarios of how the match can go. Against Fritz it's difficult because he can change his serve so it's his feeling on the court that makes the difference. Coming into the tournament with so many victories, he's confident. He's improved a lot from a tactical point of view and he can still improve from this point of view".
"It's an exceptional victory, it's as important as winning a Slam and even more so this year since we couldn't play in Italy in Rome".
"We would have signed to have results like these"
"The coach's job is to understand what needs to be changed. He is really quick to understand and put it into practice quickly. We are really happy with our journey together, it's a team effort that we do every day".
"Darren and I are very calm during the matches, Jannik is not someone who likes to hear too many words during matches, just small pieces of advice. This year we've had many great days, but usually he is very calm because he works well during training, he is confident and knows he can play great matches. Taylor is doing very well, but we had confidence that he could play a great match".
"The serve? We arrived and he had his feet separated, but we thought with Darren that the foot up (feet close together) was the best movement. We lowered the ball toss and we worked a lot since that loss in Paris. He has more torsion on his shoulders, he pushes more, his percentages have improved a lot, already in Shanghai he had very good percentages. His first serve can still stabilize”.
“If he surprises us? He arrives home, with everyone's eyes on him, and he plays these matches. Since day one he has had an excellent level. As you progress the details to improve are smaller and smaller.
With Medvedev for example he used the backhand well, he can do more serve and volley, and he understands the game better. He changed position a lot on the return today, he is starting to be a very strong tennis player also tactically, not just a great hitter”.
“Sinner is exceptional in what you don't see... outside the tournament. How he warms up, how he pays attention to the trainers, he has a desire inside to get as high as possible and he doesn't want regrets, he's never satisfied, he's always on the ball, his exceptionality is his dedication to the sport".
"I don't even want to think about the possibility of a disqualification. He doesn't deserve any of this, he doesn't deserve to be stopped because he hasn't done anything wrong. We're focusing on the next tournament, Malaga is coming soon and we'll have to recharge our batteries to be at our best in 2025".
"Before the match we prepare tactical plans, with scenarios of how the match can go. Against Fritz it's difficult because he can change his serve so it's his feeling on the court that makes the difference. Coming into the tournament with so many victories, he's confident. He's improved a lot from a tactical point of view and he can still improve from this point of view".
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
The ATP website has updated the new data with the Turin tournament;
Serve rating
Djokovic 2011= 284,1
Sinner 2024= 295,7
% service game won
Djokovic 2011= 86,4%
Sinner 2024= 91,3%
Return rating
Djokovic 2011= 180,3
Sinner 2024= 156,9
% return games won
Djokovic 2011= 38,8%
Sinner 2024= 27,8%
Under pressure rating
Djokovic 2011= 252,4
Sinner 2024= 258,6
Also, Sinner did not have to play peak Fedal and wind up with a vastly superior H-H vs them.
TheGoldenEra1990’s
Hall of Fame
Ehh. Djoker goes 3-0 vs alcaraz for the year. Not 0-3. 2011 Djoker by a wide margin. He was also way better on grass on clay where sinner has a lot more improvements to do
2024 sinner is more comparable to say 2009 Fed or something. Not compared to peak versions of the Big 3 yet
2024 sinner is more comparable to say 2009 Fed or something. Not compared to peak versions of the Big 3 yet
Berrettini_Fan
Professional
Let's compare at the #2 and #3 for both of those seasons.
2011 Nadal and Federer > 2024 Zverev and Alcaraz
2011 Nadal and Federer > 2024 Zverev and Alcaraz
TheGoldenEra1990’s
Hall of Fame
2011 Djoker would have won all 4 slams and Gold this year and probably very easy except for the US open maybe
The Guru
Legend
First of all I'm a Novak fan and was very early on calling him the best of the Big 3 so clearly you're wrong about me not being able to appreciate "boring tennis" and only appreciating flashy players.
Second of all are you implying that Sinner's continued success after his documented steroid use is evidence that his improved level is uncorrelated to his steroid use? Ok...
Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
Very glad that you saw the light there, thanks also to Hewitt I suppose. In tennis there is tendency to get bamboozled by players blasting backhands.
So you truly think that? Maybe the traces of many moons ago are still working their magic in secret in his body?
Last edited:
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
OMG
Op is Italian in case someone was wondering if he's delulu
Op is Italian in case someone was wondering if he's delulu
No_Kwan_Do
Professional
Obviously Djokovic, and his opposition was far more impressive to boot.
The Guru
Legend
Or and this is a tough logical line to follow so hear me out here. He used steroids to build up his severely lacking muscles and stamina and to aid his recovery. This has had lasting benefits for him assuming he did stop taking steroids which let's be real is far from guaranteed.
Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
I think this whole issue demonstrates how easily one can get wedded to his own emotions and quick judgements which I find fascinating.
So you say that he doped despite all the expert evidence in the report, the scientific studies cited and even the appeal of WADA which is only about the question of negligence. Out of this baseless conviction some guys formed the opinion that his performance would drop in the future as he had no longer access to his drugs.
Obviously they were proven spectacularly wrong and Sinner is dominating the tour, breaking the 2300 Elo barrier as only the 12th man in the last decades. Unable to accept that their opinion was falsified they start insinuating continued drug use despite all the testing. Obviously while at the same time showing faith into the residual performance magic of minuscule traces many moons ago.
Just brilliant stuff.
Last edited:
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Berdych didn't
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Djokovic's form in 2011 did largely collapse after the US Open had finished, at 6 wins and 4 losses in 10 matches played. It was Federer who dominated the last few months of 2011.
Djokovic was 64-2 in 2011 after winning the US Open. Sinner was 55-5 in 2024 after winning the US Open.
messiahrobins
Legend
Sinner is a great guy. Love him to bits. But Djokovic 2011 was on another planet!
messiahrobins
Legend
Proof if ever it was needed that actually the great players who have a great year at slams couldnt give a toss about tennis post USO.
Djokovic in his peak years often performed less well than Nadal at the slams and he racked up alot of his milestones in the fall which i always felt was him trying to make a statement after perhaps underachieving at the slams by his expectations. He 'only' had 7 slams by end of 2014.
Rafa in his peak years always won at least one slam, often two slams. Post USO to Rafa was an irrelevance really, which he does actually infer in his book.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
If next year he is not disqualified he will be able to try to have a season like Djokovic 2011.
Pheasant
Legend
Sinner has a long ways to go to get to 2011 Djokovic. However, he's still improving. So I wouldn't count him out by any means. That said, Sinner had his hip injury during the clay season and he had some kind of illness at Wimbledon. A healthy Sinner with his new-and-improved serve could be incredibly dangerous in 2025. Let's see what happens.
messiahrobins
Legend
Alcaraz will have a big say in that. AO final needs to be Sinner v Alcaraz in my view. Tennis needs it.
Pheasant
Legend
An AO final between Sinner and Alcaraz is definitely what tennis needs. However, I wouldn't be surprised if #1 Sinner is pitted against #3 Alcaraz in the semis once again. That is why I really wanted Alcaraz to hold onto his #2 ranking.
Watch Alcaraz take out defending-champ Sinner in the semis, only to lose to Zverev in the final to whiff at his first chance of getting the career slam.
Watch Alcaraz take out defending-champ Sinner in the semis, only to lose to Zverev in the final to whiff at his first chance of getting the career slam.
TheGoldenEra1990’s
Hall of Fame
you can’t lose to and blow a 2-1 lead to alcaraz at RF and then lose to medvedev at the slams and be on par with 2011 djokovic. Maybe next year
Indigo
Professional
I think Novak 2011 wins because his successes were against Federer and Nadal who were in their prime. Sinner didn't have Federer and Nadal in 2024 to battle constantly while Djokovic wasn't competitive because of very old age. Sinner is very good though. Everyone expects him to dominate in 2025 and even win CYGS unless he is is banned for dopping. Hope the first happens though and tennis is saved once again.
Tennfan123
Legend
Looks around for sinners competition in 2024 that surpasses Djokovic in 2011.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
71-6...
Donkus_Reborn
Semi-Pro
Sinner is undefeated in hypotheticals
Mustard
Bionic Poster
A long way short of Federer's 81-4 from 2005 and 92-5 from 2006.
Donkus_Reborn
Semi-Pro
I think what makes Djokovic's 2011 more impressive is that he won 4 straight sets against Nadal on clay. It almost seemed he found Nadal on clay easier than Federer on hardcourts, which is very strange to be honest.
2006 was not a great field, imo the only reason Federer made the FO final is because Bandy was injured. Do you think Nalbandian wins that match if he doesn't get injured (i've turned troll mode off for the night now)? I do.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Maybe, but I'd still go for Federer. They also had a close 2006 Rome semi final. Federer won 6-3, 3-6, 7-6.
RS
Bionic Poster
2006 was a deep field. Courts used to play decently fast unlike the slow rubbish in 2010-2015.
Donkus_Reborn
Semi-Pro
mate the field was so weak, that Blake, Davydenko, Robredo, Nalbandian and Ljubicic were battling it out for #3, and only one of them had won a masters title that season, and none of them made a slam final.
So 2006 wins the weakest ever year - 5 of the guys competing for a top 4 position and they only have 1 masters title between them and nothing else. I won the same amount of masters titles as most of these guys lmao
dking68
G.O.A.T.
If Sinner can repeat his 2024 and add a Wimbledon title and another masters or so, he can be regarded close to 2011. For now, hes not. And hes overdue for a clay court masters title.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
72-6...
dking68
G.O.A.T.
Im a sinner fan but he needs to add a clay court masters, a Wimbledon/RG title to compete with Djokovic 2011. Oh and a RG/WB F
zakopinjo
Professional
In order for Siner's future season to be compared to Novak 2011, he must:
To beat Alcaraz in 5-6 finals (masters and slams)
To beat another multiple slam winner 3-4 times (masters, slams)
To dominate on hard, clay and grass
dking68
G.O.A.T.
Agreed. He gotta turn that head to head around against Raz. I think he wins 3 slams next year though. But he needs to dominate the spaniard next year.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
If you read my comments in this thread I have never questioned in the slightest that Djokovic 2011 is better than Sinner 2024.
That said, it's still impressive to think that he will most likely close out this season;
1) With a win/loss record higher than Djokovic's 2011.
2) With a winning percentage higher than any single season of Nadal's career.
I created this thread for a statistical parallel and not to question Djokovic 2011>Sinner 2024.
I am big Djokovic disapprover, however, I know deep inside that 2011 was something else. No way Sinner gets a set.
Itw was more incredible. Opposition matters. Competition in the top10 back in 2011 was much tougher than de Minaur, Zverev, Medvedev, Ruud, Grigor, Rublos, or 2024 Djokovic
Similar threads
