Djokovic: AO VS USO

[RF-18]

AO: 1R, 1R, 4R, W, QF, QF, W, W, W, QF, W, W, 2R, 4R - W/L 61-8 88%

These are his participations from 2005 onwards

USO: 3R, 3R, F, SF, SF, F, W, F, F, SF, W, F, A, W - 61-10 87%

From 2005 onwards. A stands for that he didn't participate.



TBH even if Djokovic is three slams short of AO, I wouldn't say he is that much better there. Just look at those results at USO. Since 2007 until today he has made the SF or better in every year. He failed at the last stop too much but I wouldn't say it's cause he is just the better AO player. I think that is too easy of an assessment.

What are your thoughts?

 

[metsman]

his relative peak level is better at AO and he's harder to take off his game there. Overall, he's better at AO (obviously).

 

[Powderwombat]

He probably does better at AO because the crowd is far better and isn't trolling him constantly

 

[Russeljones]

AO: 1R, 1R, 4R, W, QF, QF, W, W, W, QF, W, W, 2R, 4R - W/L 61-8 88%

These are his participations from 2005 onwards

USO: 3R, 3R, F, SF, SF, F, W, F, F, SF, W, F, A, W - 61-10 87%

From 2005 onwards. A stands for that he didn't participate.



TBH even if Djokovic is three slams short of AO, I wouldn't say he is that much better there. Just look at those results at USO. Since 2007 until today he has made the SF or better in every year. He failed at the last stop too much but I wouldn't say it's cause he is just the better AO player. I think that is too easy of an assessment.

What are your thoughts?

Clueless as ever.

 

[Powderwombat]

Djokovic is the AO GOAT. Dude's won it 6 times...let's hope he makes it 7 next year.

 

[RF-18]

Clueless as ever.

LOL. Can you talk about the facts in the OP?

 

[Russeljones]

LOL. Can you talk about the facts in the OP?

Can you interpret them?

 

[Djokovic2011]

He's more consistent at the US Open but three titles are too big a gap to say he's better there than at the AO.
Btw RF, Djokovic's W-L record in NYC is now 69-10.

 

[NoleFam]

This is more proof that hardcourt is his best surface. Looking at this you can see his peak at AO is higher but he has been more consistent at the USO throughout his career. He was clearly more dominant in Australia but made less finals. He is basically the Lendl of the USO in his era. He made 8 finals, only won it 3 times although Lendl did do it 3 times in a row.

 

[jm1980]

I believe the humid heat of the New York summer is a factor in Djokovic's relative underperformance at the USO

Yes, it's hot at the AO but it's drier and Novak normally plays the night sessions there anyway

 

[RF-18]

his relative peak level is better at AO and he's harder to take off his game there. Overall, he's better at AO (obviously).

Would 2007 USO final Djoko pose a threat to Murrays level at the AO finals. Even though the conditions aren't exactly the same, I think Djoko 2007 was pretty good at the USO

 

[mike danny]

Djokovic is the AO GOAT. Dude's won it 6 times...let's hope he makes it 7 next year.

Not yet, my friend.

 

[metsman]

Would 2007 USO final Djoko pose a threat to Murrays level at the AO finals. Even though the conditions aren't exactly the same, I think Djoko 2007 was pretty good at the USO

2007 baby pre-pubescent embryo Djokovic wouldn't be doing anything.

 

[metsman]

This is more proof that hardcourt is his best surface. Looking at this you can see his peak at AO is higher but he has been more consistent at the USO throughout his career. He was clearly more dominant in Australia but made less finals. He is basically the Lendl of the USO in his era. He made 8 finals, only won it 3 times although Lendl did do it 3 times in a row.

from 08-16 he was equally consistent in both with obviously a more consistent and higher peak level at AO. Yeah he had more QF at AO but that's because he met higher caliber opponents earlier in those years, he had losses that were as or even worse at USO, just in the semis or later because of the draw.

In 07 and 18 he was in clearly better form after AO anyways for reasons that have nothing to do with AO vs USO (got his injury fixed in 18, 07 he gained experience), so not fair to really judge on those years imo.

 

[NoleFam]

from 08-16 he was equally consistent in both with obviously a more consistent and higher peak level at AO. Yeah he had more QF at AO but that's because he met higher caliber opponents earlier in those years, he had losses that were as or even worse at USO, just in the semis or later because of the draw.

In 07 and 18 he was in clearly better form after AO anyways for reasons that have nothing to do with AO vs USO (got his injury fixed in 18, 07 he gained experience), so not fair to really judge on those years imo.

Yea mostly. I would have to add that I think Djokovic underperformed at AO in 2009 and 2010 in comparison to what he showed in 2008. He retired against Roddick in 2009 and lost a 5 setter to Tsonga in 2010. I think he actually played a bit better at the USO in those two years but clearly every other year probably goes to the AO, except 2011 where they are probably close.

This is true because the time frame of his drop in form/injury happened to be when he was playing AO. He didn't play the USO in 2017 and by the time the USO came around this year, he was entirely different player earlier in the year.

 

[Federer and Del Potro]

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

He was just lucky that he avoided Istomin and Chung at the USO

 

[Federer and Del Potro]

He was just lucky that he avoided Istomin and Chung at the USO

And Querrey

 

[Fabresque]

And Querrey

And Cecchinato

 

[Steve0904]

It shows that both HC slams should never be lumped together as is sometimes done around here. This being particularly true if they keep the AO speed the same next year and he loses there. But even if he doesn't and he wins the AO the court surfaces are too different to be combining them.

 

[RF-18]

He was just lucky that he avoided Istomin and Chung at the USO

Chung played half injured Djokovic pal and I don't know who Istomin played, but it wasn't Djokovic

 

[Federer and Del Potro]

It shows that both HC slams should never be lumped together as is sometimes done around here. This being particularly true if they keep the AO speed the same next year and he loses there. But even if he doesn't and he wins the AO the court surfaces are too different to be combining them.

That and everyone is usually fresh and ready for AO versus beleaguered and battle worn for USO.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Chung played half injured Djokovic pal and I don't know who Istomin played, but it wasn't Djokovic

Maybe a healthy Djokovic would have won a set

 

[RF-18]

Maybe a healthy Djokovic would have won a set

 

[Federer and Del Potro]

We went from this about Djokovic:

to this:

 

[Zhilady]

Not yet, my friend.

I think you mean, “not anymore.”

 

[Gaelle Caplier]

Each time Novak has won USO, it has been followed by an AO win and preceded by a Wimbledon win. Great times ahead for Nolefam.
And of course, his peak level at AO is much better- has beaten Federer in straight sets twice and played an absolute blinder in 1st 2 sets of 2016 SF.

 

[-NN-]

He's substantially better at the AO, but maybe it won't be the case now as the USO is apparently slower than ever and AO has been medium-fast or so for the last couple of years.

 

[Elektra]

I think a USO is more important in hardcourt prestige then an AO win. The USO is harder grandslam then AO. This USO win is good for his confidence as a hardcourt specialist.

I think Novak needs to peak wisely cause for so long he peaked early at AO and French Open and he would get burned out US Open. The most critical part of the season really starts FO to USO.

 

[metsman]

Yea mostly. I would have to add that I think Djokovic underperformed at AO in 2009 and 2010 in comparison to what he showed in 2008. He retired against Roddick in 2009 and lost a 5 setter to Tsonga in 2010. I think he actually played a bit better at the USO in those two years but clearly every other year probably goes to the AO, except 2011 where they are probably close.

This is true because the time frame of his drop in form/injury happened to be when he was playing AO. He didn't play the USO in 2017 and by the time the USO came around this year, he was entirely different player earlier in the year.

2010 sure, he forgot how to serve vs Tsonga and played a poor match, and his USO level was solid after the first round, but in 2009 he was decent for 2.5 sets vs Roddick before the heat got to him. Roddick was also serving out of his mind, if he had ran into a Roddick like opponent in USO 2009, he may have lost there too.

 

[NoleFam]

2010 sure, he forgot how to serve vs Tsonga and played a poor match, and his USO level was solid after the first round, but in 2009 he was decent for 2.5 sets vs Roddick before the heat got to him. Roddick was also serving out of his mind, if he had ran into a Roddick like opponent in USO 2009, he may have lost there too.

I don't think Djokovic was playing all that well in AO 2009 even before the Roddick match. He played a close 4 setter with a lucky loser in the 3rd round. Also, his level tends to drop even more when he is struggling with conditions just like we saw in the 1st round of the USO this year. I thought he played better at the USO and played a decent match against an inform Verdasco and pushed Federer to 3 close sets. I would give the USO the edge.

 

[metsman]

I don't think Djokovic was playing all that well in AO 2009 even before the Roddick match. He played a close 4 setter with a lucky loser in the 3rd round. Also, his level tends to drop even more when he is struggling with conditions just like we saw in the 1st round of the USO this year. I thought he played better at the USO and played a decent match against an inform Verdasco and pushed Federer to 3 close sets. I would give the USO the edge.

I thought he played pretty well the first 2-2.5 sets against Roddick before his level really dropped. USO was maybe a little better, but I think he could have lost to a Roddick-like opponent at USO if he had faced one so I don't see a big difference.

 

[NoleFam]

I thought he played pretty well the first 2-2.5 sets against Roddick before his level really dropped. USO was maybe a little better, but I think he could have lost to a Roddick-like opponent at USO if he had faced one so I don't see a big difference.

Hard to say especially considering he had beaten Roddick there the year before.

 

[metsman]

Hard to say especially considering he had beaten Roddick there the year before.

that was a roddick struggling with his serve due to a shoulder injury and lack of match play earlier that summer. Djokovic also played one of his better USO matches in that one (which I don't think he'd have done in 09). 2009 AO Roddick was serving his best in that match.

 

[NoleFam]

that was a roddick struggling with his serve due to a shoulder injury and lack of match play earlier that summer. Djokovic also played one of his better USO matches in that one (which I don't think he'd have done in 09). 2009 AO Roddick was serving his best in that match.

Roddick's average 1st serve speed in that 2008 USO match was 126 mph and average second serve was 108, and he served close to 70%. He may have dealt with an injury prior to that but was not struggling with his serve in that match. Roddick played well that night with more winners than errors but Djokovic played better. Djokovic didn't play as good at the 2009 USO but I still think better than the AO that year. Roddick did play great in the 2009 AO match though but lost a close one with Isner at the USO, so hard to say if he would have beaten Djokovic there.

 

[metsman]

Roddick's average 1st serve speed in that 2008 USO match was 126 mph and average second serve was 108, and he served close to 70%. He may have dealt with an injury prior to that but was not struggling with his serve in that match. Roddick played well that night with more winners than errors but Djokovic played better. Djokovic didn't play as good at the 2009 USO but I still think better than the AO that year. Roddick did play great in the 2009 AO match though but lost a close one with Isner at the USO, so hard to say if he would have beaten Djokovic there.

Roddick's serve was clearly below par the first couple sets, got broken on like all the opportunities, good bit of doubles, poor play behind his first serve. He picked it up after that, but Djokovic played really well to close him out in the 4th. As for the other point, well not Roddick himself, Roddick like opponent could have beaten Djokovic at 09 USO.

It's not a big deal either way.

 

[NoleFam]

Roddick's serve was clearly below par the first couple sets, got broken on like all the opportunities, good bit of doubles, poor play behind his first serve. He picked it up after that, but Djokovic played really well to close him out in the 4th. As for the other point, well not Roddick himself, Roddick like opponent could have beaten Djokovic at 09 USO.

It's not a big deal either way.

He had a few double faults and Djokovic really picked off his second serve. You rarely see Roddick winning that little of second serve points but it was Djokovic a great returner. A key stat in that match is Djokovic was 5/5 on break points and Roddick was 3/10. Because Djokovic was perfect on break point opportunities, it basically changed the course of how the match played out.

Yea I'm sure someone of Roddick caliber could have been Djokovic there but I just feel like his form was a bit better than AO that year. Agree to diagree though.

 

[Pheasant]

The USO and AO originally flipped court speeds, but now have flipped back. Moving forward from this point on, I think that Djoker will close the slam title gap between the USO and AO. Previously, the court speed of the AO fell right into Djoker's wheel house whereas the USO didn't. But nowadays, that's been reversed.

With that being said, Djoker is still the favorite at either event. But lesser players have a puncher's chance against Djoker on the faster AO surface.

 

[upchuck]

Unlike at the Australian Open, he had losses at the US Open smack in the middle of his prime that he shouldn't have had.