Djokovic at AO vs Federer at Wimbledon

Who was Better?

  • Djokovic as the Wizard of Oz

    Votes: 52 61.9%

  • Federer as the Master of Grass

    Votes: 32 38.1%
  • Total voters
    84
NYTennisfan said:
Djokovic beat just past Peak Federer at the AO, although I believe that was Year Mono for Fed, also beat Federer in 2011, 2016 and 2020.
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And Fed beat peak Djokovic in 2012 at Wimb. Didn't get other good chances to beat him due to obvious reasons.
NYTennisfan said:
Djokovic beat Nadal in the 2012 AO classic and in 2019.
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Oh yeah, 2019 AO Nadal was such a beast.
NYTennisfan said:
Only lost to Fedal once at the AO and that was in 2007 when he was a pup and against absolute Peak Fed so, yes, he beat Fedal a lot at the AO,
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And Fed beat Djokodal in 2006, 2007, 2012 and 2019 Also beat Sampras in 2001. A lot is pushing it really. 4-5 good wins vs 4.
NYTennisfan said:
it wasn't just fattening up on weak competition. Not to mention that Murray, an ATG, was his pigeon on that surface destroying him every time. Utter dominance on this surface against the best competition.
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If we're using Murray now to prop up Djokovic, Fed beat him as well, plus Roddick who put up just as good of a fight vs Fed at Wimb as Murray at the AO.
NYTennisfan said:
Also, lets not act like Federer was beating up on a bunch of juggernauts during his Peak Wimbledon run.
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Neither was Djokovic after 2012.
NYTennisfan said:
Also, of note Federer 0-3 in Wimbledon Finals against Djokovic.
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And we all know why that is.
 
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All these counter arguments are funny. The question was simple, who dominated more at their pet slam. The answer should also be simple.

But instead we are getting all those arguments of weak opposition etc while you are strong etc.
The hard fact is.
At AO, Djokovic beat whoever is in other side of the net. That includes Federer, Nadal, Murray, Wawrinka, Thiem. He literally pulled out a win even when facing problems like 2020 and 2021. 10 - 0 final record is super impressive.

In contrast, Fed couldn't beat everyone at Wimbledon. While 2008 final loss was to an ATG Nadal, the 2010-11 and 2013 loss are bad. Then the two double fault in 2016 semi. The Kevin Anderson loss in 2018.
And then the 40-15 loss in 2019. If he can win 200 plus points surely he could have won 1 more point at that age also.
Too many bad losses unfortunately.

Most beautiful play on grass.. definitely. Best result in Wimbledon also (8 wins) but dominance at a slam falls behind Djoker at AO and Nadal at FO.
 
roysid said:
All these counter arguments are funny. The question was simple, who dominated more at their pet slam. The answer should also be simple.

But instead we are getting all those arguments of weak opposition etc while you are strong etc.
The hard fact is.
At AO, Djokovic beat whoever is in other side of the net. That includes Federer, Nadal, Murray, Wawrinka, Thiem. He literally pulled out a win even when facing problems like 2020 and 2021. 10 - 0 final record is super impressive.

In contrast, Fed couldn't beat everyone at Wimbledon. While 2008 final loss was to an ATG Nadal, the 2010-11 and 2013 loss are bad. Then the two double fault in 2016 semi. The Kevin Anderson loss in 2018.
And then the 40-15 loss in 2019. If he can win 200 plus points surely he could have won 1 more point at that age also.
Too many bad losses unfortunately.

Most beautiful play on grass.. definitely. Best result in Wimbledon also (8 wins) but dominance at a slam falls behind Djoker at AO and Nadal at FO.
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Exactly, he's 14-2 at the AO against those players you listed and it turns into 16-2 if you throw in Medvedev. That's complete domination, now we are reinventing that it was because of weak competition, at the AO of all places? Lol. They've lost the plot.
 
I think Federer was overall a bit better at everything. He had better longevity and make it to more finals. He was also more dominant in his prime years.

He ended up winning less but besides Wimbledon 2017 he had a lot of hard competition as he got old.
 
Federer probably has higher peak on grass than Djokovic on HC. Therefore, peak is overrated.
 
NoleFam said:
Both great records but Djokovic's at the AO is only 2nd to Nadal's at RG. It's hardcourt as well which is the neutral surface and at the beginning of the year when everyone is well rested. The fact that he won 10 on that surface at that time of the year is astonishing. Level of competition equal? I thought the bad competition at Wimbledon was how Djokovic won 7? At least that's what the brainiacs said so many times.

Also the OP is incorrect. Djokovic won the AO 3 times while dropping only one set: 2008, 2011, 2023. This doesn't matter though because it only matters who's holding the trophy at the end.
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Glad we all agree Nadal at RG is the benchmark. :)
 
What context? Djokovic had to earn his first 7 Australian Opens against Federer, Nadal, Murray. The other 3 greatest players of his generation on hard courts. He is 11-1 against the Big-4 down under. 11-1. That's utter domination.
Federer didn't have this problem for his first 6 Wimbledons. Murray and Djokovic were nowhere near their prime in 2009. His only rival was Nadal playing on his worst surface. 2012 with his 2 wins over Djokorray was his most impressive Masterclass, but before that he faced a weak competition. He is 6-5 on the centre court against the Big-4. Each member of the big-3 got him at least once. Not exactly the same as 11-1.
 
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Fed fans - Fed
Egg fans - Egg

9chlij.jpg
 
Berrettini_Fan said:
Who was better at their pet slam, the Djoker down under or the Fed at the home of tennis?

In Djokovic's favor:
  1. He has more titles (10 >8)
  2. He has a winning record vs Federer in Oz (4-1). In contrast Federer has a losing record vs Djokovic on the Lawns (1-3).
In Federer's favor:
  1. Higher peak. Federer won once without dropping a set (2017) and 3x dropping only 1 set (2003, 2005, and 2006). In contrast, Djokovic has never had a flawless run at AO and only won 2x dropping a single set (2011 and 2023).
  2. Longer winning streak. Federer won 5 in a row from 2003 - 2007. Djokovic's longest streak is 3, albeit he did it twice (2011 - 2013 and 2019 - 2021).
  3. More Finals made (12 > 10)
Level of competition is about equal. Federer's opponents in the Finals comprised of Roddick 3x, Nadal 3x, Djokovic 3x, Philippousis, Murray, and Cilic. Djokovic's opponents in the Finals comprised of Murray 4x, Nadal 2x, Tsonga, Thiem, Medvedev, and Tsitsipas.
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Perfect finals conversion rate out of double digit finals reached (10 out of 10) should be additional third point in favour of Djole, cuz this is kinda a big deal...
 
roysid said:
All these counter arguments are funny. The question was simple, who dominated more at their pet slam. The answer should also be simple.

But instead we are getting all those arguments of weak opposition etc while you are strong etc.
The hard fact is.
At AO, Djokovic beat whoever is in other side of the net. That includes Federer, Nadal, Murray, Wawrinka, Thiem. He literally pulled out a win even when facing problems like 2020 and 2021. 10 - 0 final record is super impressive.

In contrast, Fed couldn't beat everyone at Wimbledon. While 2008 final loss was to an ATG Nadal, the 2010-11 and 2013 loss are bad. Then the two double fault in 2016 semi. The Kevin Anderson loss in 2018.
And then the 40-15 loss in 2019. If he can win 200 plus points surely he could have won 1 more point at that age also.
Too many bad losses unfortunately.

Most beautiful play on grass.. definitely. Best result in Wimbledon also (8 wins) but dominance at a slam falls behind Djoker at AO and Nadal at FO.
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Why don't we also dissect every Djoker loss as well? And is losing to Nadal worse than losing to non-ATG Wawrinka?

I also don't remember Djoker winning 5 in a row, 40 straight matches and 7 straight finals.
 
There will never be universal consensus on this one, unless Djoko goes on a tear for the next couple of years and increases the gap between himself and Federer while still keeping perfect finals conversion rate, something like 12 out of 12 or something, separating himself further, in which case there can be no comparisons any longer, no matter how much of a peak Fed once hit and how many consecutive ones he has won, but for now it's way too close for any definitive arguments in favour of Djoko...
 
mike danny said:
Please, Djokovic didn't have a tough title win after 2012.
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Ughh...excuse me? 2020 win wasn't tough enough for you facing peak vesrion of Thiem in five set epic?? Maybe none of them were memorable as much as that 2012 one, tough though...that's whole different story! I also reckon it's pretty damn tough going through the draw of 7 highly motivated opponents, with almost half of them significantly younger than yourself all whilst playing through injuries in a BO5 set format (2021 and 2023 editions say hello!)...
 
Djokodalerer31 said:
Ughh...excuse me? 2020 win wasn't tough enough for you facing peak vesrion of Thiem in five set epic??
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Peak Thiem is no prime Djokovic.
Djokodalerer31 said:
Maybe none of them were memorable as much as that 2012 one, tough though...that's whole different story! I also reckon it's pretty damn tough going through the draw of 7 highly motivated opponents, with almost half of them significantly younger than yourself all whilst playing through injuries in a BO5 set format (2021 and 2023 editions say hello!)...
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Him winning those editions as easily as he did with an injury actually proves my point.
 
mike danny said:
Peak Thiem is no prime Djokovic.

Him winning those editions as easily as he did with an injury actually proves my point.
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It wasn't easy at all, he was struggling throughout, did we even watch the same tournaments?! You didn't prove any points, you are just talking smack, just like any other Fed fan does cuz you are bitter hater just like the rest of them...
 
Djokodalerer31 said:
It wasn't easy at all, he was struggling throughout, did we even watch the same tournaments?! You didn't prove any points, you are just talking smack, just like any other Fed fan does cuz you are bitter hater just like the rest of them...
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Thiem played well, but at the same age Fed had to face prime Djokovic hence why one of them won, while the other didn't.
 
The Blond Blur said:
9ci77n.jpg
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You are reaching, the difference between them and Rafa at each respective pet slam is NOT as great as to warrant this kind of reaction. Especially between Rafa and Novak with only 4 titles gap...we aren't comparing Nadal's 14 titles to Novak's 4 or 5 or something, we are comparing 14 to 10...
 
Djokodalerer31 said:
You are reaching, the difference between them and Rafa at each respective pet slam is NOT as great as to warrant this kind of reaction. Especially between Rafa and Novak with only 4 titles gap...we aren't comparing Nadal's 14 titles to Novak's 4 or 5 or something, we are comparing 14 to 10...
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Reaching? I made a joke, lol. And you know what else is a joke? Saying 10 titles is close to 14 titles. Especially when you said this earlier in the thread:
Djokodalerer31 said:
There will never be universal consensus on this one, unless Djoko goes on a tear for the next couple of years and increases the gap between himself and Federer while still keeping perfect finals conversion rate, something like 12 out of 12 or something, separating himself further, in which case there can be no comparisons any longer, no matter how much of a peak Fed once hit and how many consecutive ones he has won, but for now it's way too close for any definitive arguments in favour of Djoko...
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In this scenario it’d be 12 AO titles to 8 Wimbys…which would be the equivalent to the current gap between RAFA at RG vs Joker at the AO :whistle:
 
mike danny said:
Please, Djokovic didn't have a tough title win after 2012.
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2013 was a tough win. Stan was an excellent opponent and Murray played a decent match too.

After that it's a lot more mixed...

2015: Murray was decent if not particularly great. Maybe slightly worse than in 2013, but Djokovic didn't have to deal with a red-hot Stan to beef up the draw. Instead we got that ugly SF.

2016: Not a hard draw at all. Fed was below par except for the last set and a half, and Murray's final performance was a downgrade from 2015.

2019: Certainly one of the weakest. QF/SFs were a joke and Nadal was deeply underwhelming in the final.

2020: A step up from 2019 because Thiem played a decent match, but Djokovic didn't really face anyone in good form aside from that. I'd say worse than 2015 but above 2019.

2021: The final was a meme but early rounds were a bit more stacked than usual, though Djokovic's injury probably inflated the worth of his opponents. Zverev showed hints of a good performance but he choked in a disgusting manner. Probably right below 2020.

2023: Down there with 2019. Not much to add, really.
 
Djokodalerer31 said:
There will never be universal consensus on this one, unless Djoko goes on a tear for the next couple of years and increases the gap between himself and Federer while still keeping perfect finals conversion rate, something like 12 out of 12 or something, separating himself further, in which case there can be no comparisons any longer, no matter how much of a peak Fed once hit and how many consecutive ones he has won, but for now it's way too close for any definitive arguments in favour of Djoko...
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10-8 is the most definitive argument one could think of. If the gap was just 1 (9-8), I could reluctantly understand why there is a debate. People could always say one of Djokovic's AO should be asterisked because ******. Or that Federer had match points in Wim2019 and was 1 point away to tie Djokovic's AO number. But when the gap is more than 1, there is no debate. Just making the losers sound like... bitter sore losers.
Just like for the Slam Race. Until 23-22 there was still a little uncertainty. 24-22 makes the Goat debate completely pointless.
 
Hitman said:
It's Djokovic. Defeating Djokovic in the AO final is only second to defeating Nadal in the RG final. Federer is third here.
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Nadal at the French Open is dominance unlike any other. Beating him in ANY round at the French Open was an almost impossible task until injuries and age slowed him down his last few years.

Djokovic was one of the few to beat Nadal at the FO in 2015.
 
mike danny said:
Why don't we also dissect every Djoker loss as well? And is losing to Nadal worse than losing to non-ATG Wawrinka?

I also don't remember Djoker winning 5 in a row, 40 straight matches and 7 straight finals.
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Djokovic had two bad losses in 2017-18 to Istomin and the South Korean player. Inexplicable. In 2009-2010 also he was overpowered. And deport in 2022. That's why he reached 10 finals which could have been greater.
But he maximized his chances when playing well. He is 2-1 vs Wawrinka the biggest challenge at AO. Finals which could have gone either way i.e 2012 and 2020 he turned around.

Roger won 5 in a row, 40 straight matches but not 7 straight finals. He had the 2008 loss in between. But no.of tournament wins is the ultimate prize.

All said and done, winning 8 titles and that too from 12 finals is lesser achievement than winning 10 titles and that too from 10 finals.
 
Ultimately it comes to who won the more close matches.
Fed lost 3 finals in 5 sets. One he had match points on serve. In two other matches, he saved mp in 4th set and had momentum in 5th. Had he won all 3 , he gets to 11 titles. Plus the semi loss to Raonic in 2016 was also a miss. And then anderson loss in 2018.
The 5 setters he could have lost but won are Nadal 2007, Roddick 2009 and benetau 2012.

Djokovic won more close matches than he lost. Had many close matches from 2012-15. Lost once but won 3 titles. Memorable wins 2012 Nadal and Murray, 2013, 15 wawrinka.
Overcome physical issues to win 2020 final and 2021 fritz match.
 
StefanV said:
Federer had to deal with Kokutitas' big penetrating serve in 2004-06.

Djokovic had to deal with Kwon's groundstrokes in 2020-23.

Tough to answer.
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so we've gone from Greek (+ random Mediterranean islands so we can include Baghdatis) Era to Korean Era?
 
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