Djokovic beat the most in form players at all four Slams

Milehigh5280

Professional
Except for Medvedev at USO, of course. I don't disagree with your point, though. Yeah, the tour is weak, but at least Novak went through the top players for each of his slam victories this year
 

Kralingen

Legend
Wimby was a soft af draw but I will agree Berrettini was the 2nd best player on grass. Shapo choked but was better than Medvedev or Zverev to my eye at least.

AO undeniably played the 2 best HC players
RG undeniably played the 2 best Clay players
USO undeniably played the 2 best HC players again

Of course - Thiem, Roger, and Rafa's injuries cast a large shadow here. So, meh to bad competition historically, but in the context of 2021, Djokovic did play the best players possible.
 

Amen786

Semi-Pro
AO - beat Medvedev who had won the previous 20 matches

RG - beat Nadal and Tsitsipas who had both won the previous 10 matches

WI - beat Berrettini who had won the previous 11 matches

UO - beat Zverev who had won the previous 16 matches
All things considered, Medvedev was the better player of the North American Hard court season. He pretty much destroyed the field in canada, was cruising through the draw till the camera incident slightly gave him a minor temporary injury so he lost to Andre Bweh.
 

daggerman

Hall of Fame
"In form" is kinda relative to the rest of the tour though. If you like ultimatetennisstatistics, his slams this year are the weakest out of all his slam wins in terms of "strength" and elo.
Fair enough.

Per UTS' Title Difficulty metric, RG 2021 ranks as Novak's 13th-most difficult slam victory; AO 2021 ranks as his 18th-most difficult. Wimbledon 2021 does, indeed, rank as his 20th-most, i.e., least, difficult slam victory, which makes sense.

But then, if you compare those 3 slams to the Title Difficulty rating of Roger's 20 slams, they'd rank:

2021 RG: 4th (of 21)
2021 AO: 10th

And 2021 Wimbledon wouldn't even be last! Roger had two "easier" slams, per this metric.
 

fundrazer

Legend
Fair enough.

Per UTS' Title Difficulty metric, RG 2021 ranks as Novak's 13th-most difficult slam victory; AO 2021 ranks as his 18th-most difficult. Wimbledon 2021 does, indeed, rank as his 20th-most, i.e., least, difficult slam victory, which makes sense.

But then, if you compare those 3 slams to the Title Difficulty rating of Roger's 20 slams, they'd rank:

2021 RG: 4th (of 21)
2021 AO: 10th

And 2021 Wimbledon wouldn't even be last! Roger had two "easier" slams, per this metric.
Who said anything about Federer in this thread?
 

Kralingen

Legend
Fair enough.

Per UTS' Title Difficulty metric, RG 2021 ranks as Novak's 13th-most difficult slam victory; AO 2021 ranks as his 18th-most difficult. Wimbledon 2021 does, indeed, rank as his 20th-most, i.e., least, difficult slam victory, which makes sense.

But then, if you compare those 3 slams to the Title Difficulty rating of Roger's 20 slams, they'd rank:

2021 RG: 4th (of 21)
2021 AO: 10th

And 2021 Wimbledon wouldn't even be last! Roger had two "easier" slams, per this metric.
lol I think that says more about UTS title difficulty metric than it does Federer's draws, tbh.

Fed has had some real easy ones though. 2018 AO was hilarious, as was AO 2006.

I think the argument Fed fans usually fall back on is: his peak was so good that it doesn't matter who he was playing, whereas easy draws in your old age allow players to inflate their resume or something like that. Compelling enough for me, easier draws would be more advantageous the older you are.
 

daggerman

Hall of Fame
lol I think that says more about UTS title difficulty metric than it does Federer's draws, tbh.

Fed has had some real easy ones though. 2018 AO was hilarious, as was AO 2006.

I think the argument Fed fans usually fall back on is: his peak was so good that it doesn't matter who he was playing, whereas easy draws in your old age allow players to inflate their resume or something like that. Compelling enough for me, easier draws would be more advantageous the older you are.
FWIW I think UTS' Title Difficulty metric is pretty good, but I also believe Federer was good enough in his early-to-mid 20s to dominate fields stronger than those which he encountered. It's also obviously the case that Roger's top rivals' Elo ratings were depressed somewhat by always losing to Roger.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
As I said before, Novak's faced the toughest players in 2021. You really can't dispute that. He faced the best hard courters in Medvedev and Zverev, he faced the best clay courters in Nadal and Tsitsipas, and he faced the best grass courter... Berrettini.

It's just that the toughest players in 2021 aren't actually that tough at all in the grand scheme of things.
 

fundrazer

Legend
I dunno, sometimes making statements about the quality of a tennis metric requires discussing how that metric judges arguably the best tennis player ever?
If you say so, but you're not actually making an argument about its "quality."

Now, if you had said something along the lines of elo being flawed due to the natural tendency of elo inflation, that would be something actually worth considering.
 

Kralingen

Legend
I still think a healthy, in-form Thiem would have taken out a tired Djokovic in the FO2021 final.

and if Thiem was his SF opponent instead of Karatsev at the AO, doubt he does as well vs. Medvedev in the final.

For me Thiem will be the key to 2022, really. If he's healthy and back to 2020 form the draws take on a new complexion entirely. If not, I don't think the slam contenders change at all from 2021.
 

Antonio Puente

Hall of Fame
"In form" is kinda relative to the rest of the tour though. If you like ultimatetennisstatistics, his slams this year are the weakest out of all his slam wins in terms of "strength" and elo.
That certainly matches the eye test. Playing at the level Djoker played in 2021, during most other years of his career, he might have won one slam.
 

T007

Professional
AO - beat Medvedev who had won the previous 20 matches

RG - beat Nadal and Tsitsipas who had both won the previous 10 matches

WI - beat Berrettini who had won the previous 11 matches

UO - beat Zverev who had won the previous 16 matches
Berrettini wasn't a tough opponent by any standards. This years wimbledon draw for winner was the easiest in 2 decades.
 

aman92

Hall of Fame
I still think a healthy, in-form Thiem would have taken out a tired Djokovic in the FO2021 final.

and if Thiem was his SF opponent instead of Karatsev at the AO, doubt he does as well vs. Medvedev in the final.

For me Thiem will be the key to 2022, really. If he's healthy and back to 2020 form the draws take on a new complexion entirely. If not, I don't think the slam contenders change at all from 2021.
Yeah undoubtedly the biggest disappointment of the year.. This season was his chance to kick on and dominate after finally bagging a major victory but he just got injured at the wrong time. He definitely has Novak's number on clay and would have been his biggest threat at the Aus Open.
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
Nah it is not truth
True enough; anything can happen on grass! Anyone can beat anyone really! Nole could have hurt himself early on when grass quite slippery! He got thru it though with little effort in the end! He did complicate his life by dropping that first set to Matteo in the Wimbledon final when up a break! :-D
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
True enough; anything can happen on grass! Anyone can beat anyone really! Nole could have hurt himself early on when grass quite slippery! He got thru it though with little effort in the end! He did complicate his life by dropping that first set to Matteo in the Wimbledon final when up a break! :-D
He dropped the 1st set in the finals of both RG and Wimbledon and dropped the 1st set in almost every round at the US Open. It seems he never likes to start the match until the 2nd set! ;)
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
He did come with some serious grass form though having just won Queen's.
It was scary to see Nole drop that 1st set up a break! After winning the FO by defeating Nadal in the SF and surviving final against Tsitsipas, I thought there might have to be a re-balancing of "the force!" Novak might have been destined to drop this final; esp. after stealing his last one in 2019 down 2 MP's to Federer! :-D
 
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Milanez82

Hall of Fame
Wimby was a soft af draw but I will agree Berrettini was the 2nd best player on grass. Shapo choked but was better than Medvedev or Zverev to my eye at least.

AO undeniably played the 2 best HC players
RG undeniably played the 2 best Clay players
USO undeniably played the 2 best HC players again

Of course - Thiem, Roger, and Rafa's injuries cast a large shadow here. So, meh to bad competition historically, but in the context of 2021, Djokovic did play the best players possible.
Will Roger being injured in 2023 cast a large shadow over whoever wins slams?
 

guga_fan

Semi-Pro
All things considered, Medvedev was the better player of the North American Hard court season. He pretty much destroyed the field in canada, was cruising through the draw till the camera incident slightly gave him a minor temporary injury so he lost to Andre Bweh.
How did Med destroy the field in Canada? Did you watch his match against Hurkacz? Zverev was way more impressive in Cincy.
 

aman92

Hall of Fame
He did come with some serious grass form though having just won Queen's.
Considering the level of competition on Grass currently, I struggle to hype the form of any of the youngsters until they actually win Wimbledon. Did anyone really think Berrettini had any chance against Djokovic in the final?
 

Amen786

Semi-Pro
How did Med destroy the field in Canada? Did you watch his match against Hurkacz? Zverev was way more impressive in Cincy.
My bad, sorry
But apart from the Hurcatch match, Medvedev was mighty impressive and may have beaten sascha in the Cincinnati final as well if not for the camera incident hampering him slightly..
Though its better that he lost there, because if he had built a momentum like sascha did this time & danill himself did before Australia open final, he'd surely have gone down.
Being kind of an underdog helped him I think.
 
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