djokovic berdych hardcourt h2h

lrdrdy

New User
So this is pretty random but I was watching this match, Tomas Berdych vs Nadal AO12. Berdych played very well, he also beat Federer in the US open in the same year. Berdych was also very consistent and made a lot of QFs at big tournaments in other years. So I looked at his record vs Djokovic, and guys.. these are the numbers I compiled.

Djokovic is 21-0 against Tomas Berdych on hard court, WOW. On HC Djokovic won 45 sets, Berdych won 5.. Djokovic won 8 tiebreaks and Berdych won only 1.. and Djokovic won 15 sets by score of 6-2 or better, Berdych won.. zero.

I mean guys, this is pretty bad, I dont understand . Berdych has great serve, clean groundstrokes, high peak level, no huge weaknesses I think. He has beat Djokovic 2 times at Wimbledon, and has beat him on clay, so it is not like Djokovic is really that unbeatable.

Djokovic is great on hardcourts but there are a lot of hardcourts on tour, he is bound to lose sometime, why never to Berdych. And why does he always play so well against Berdych? What do you guys think? I like Berdych game so this is frustrating.
 

pj80

Hall of Fame
"I just said to my coach now that I probably played over 700 matches in my career, and I met guys like Andre, Roger, all those probably in their best times. But I have never, ever experienced anything like that."
 

lrdrdy

New User
"I just said to my coach now that I probably played over 700 matches in my career, and I met guys like Andre, Roger, all those probably in their best times. But I have never, ever experienced anything like that."
what is this about?
 

lrdrdy

New User
Djokovic read the Berdych serve like a children’s book, and he also loved using Berdych’s pace against him.

I don’t know exactly why it was that one sided but I do know players who hit hard and weren’t great movers played directly into younger Djokovic’s hands.
this makes sense but I wonder why Berdych did better on clay and grass than hardcourts. those are on opposite sides of the spectrum so you cant just say he was better on fast courts or slow courts. do you think Djokovic is just that good on hardcourt?
 

Kralingen

Hall of Fame
Stan a great mover confirmed?
Unironically yes at least at his peak.
He could hit away from his body quite well and was actually quick side to side.

it’s obviously not just that though I’d say the fact that Berdy had very little variety/slice/drop shots to speak of is just as important. His flat hitting basically fell into the Djokovic strike zone every single time.
 

Fabresque

Hall of Fame
Berdych is the anti-Djokovic is there was one. Pretty big serve, huge groundstrokes, relies on brutalizing opponents, bad mover, etc… Djokovic capitalized with his good return and his ability to get back almost all of Birdman’s heaters, not to mention he was a massive lock for any point he made him move around in.
 

One

Rookie
this makes sense but I wonder why Berdych did better on clay and grass than hardcourts. those are on opposite sides of the spectrum so you cant just say he was better on fast courts or slow courts. do you think Djokovic is just that good on hardcourt?
Cant remember all his victories, but Rome 13 was Novak totally colapsing after having set and break lead. W10 was close, and Novak wasnt top level, while W17 was injured.
Berdych carrer is a mistery to me. Massive FH and serve, good BH. Is he wasnt playing in big4 era, easily 6+ slams.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Djokovic read the Berdych serve like a children’s book, and he also loved using Berdych’s pace against him.

I don’t know exactly why it was that one sided but I do know players who hit hard and weren’t great movers played directly into younger Djokovic’s hands.
Stan a great mover confirmed?
hard and flat hitting.
Stan hits with significantly more topspin than Berdych.
While Stan isn't a great mover, he's still a good one and clearly better than Berdych.
 

weakera

G.O.A.T.
Berdych-Djokovic on HC sounds an awful lot like Wawrinka-Nadal on HC including 2013 until Nadal hurt his back before the AO final. Only Nadal owned Wawrinka even worse.
 

InsideOut900

Hall of Fame
hard and flat hitting.
Stan hits with significantly more topspin than Berdych.
While Stan isn't a great mover, he's still a good one and clearly better than Berdych.
I always considered Stan a fairly slow lateral mover, especially for his height. Not sure how much better he is compared to Berdych (a bit yes, a lot, probably not).

I think his fairly deep, lifeless slice when stretched is a very effective way to reset a rally against Djokovic.

Obviously, his top spin and heavy hitting are a big part of it.
Stan esentially has a mean to deal with the match-up in almost all situations.
 

mr tonyz

Professional
So this is pretty random but I was watching this match, Tomas Berdych vs Nadal AO12. Berdych played very well, he also beat Federer in the US open in the same year. Berdych was also very consistent and made a lot of QFs at big tournaments in other years. So I looked at his record vs Djokovic, and guys.. these are the numbers I compiled.

Djokovic is 21-0 against Tomas Berdych on hard court, WOW. On HC Djokovic won 45 sets, Berdych won 5.. Djokovic won 8 tiebreaks and Berdych won only 1.. and Djokovic won 15 sets by score of 6-2 or better, Berdych won.. zero.

I mean guys, this is pretty bad, I dont understand . Berdych has great serve, clean groundstrokes, high peak level, no huge weaknesses I think. He has beat Djokovic 2 times at Wimbledon, and has beat him on clay, so it is not like Djokovic is really that unbeatable.

Djokovic is great on hardcourts but there are a lot of hardcourts on tour, he is bound to lose sometime, why never to Berdych. And why does he always play so well against Berdych? What do you guys think? I like Berdych game so this is frustrating.
This is pro sports ...

Would you say that Djoker is 20 x the tennis player than Tomas Berdych is because Djoker is 20 to Berdych's 0? (slams)

You only have to be an inch better all of the time to compile oddly skewed numbers such as these ...

Okay, perhaps Djoker is 2 or 3 inches better in most departments minus perhaps first serve & overheads :p
 

ron schaap

Hall of Fame
So this is pretty random but I was watching this match, Tomas Berdych vs Nadal AO12. Berdych played very well, he also beat Federer in the US open in the same year. Berdych was also very consistent and made a lot of QFs at big tournaments in other years. So I looked at his record vs Djokovic, and guys.. these are the numbers I compiled.

Djokovic is 21-0 against Tomas Berdych on hard court, WOW. On HC Djokovic won 45 sets, Berdych won 5.. Djokovic won 8 tiebreaks and Berdych won only 1.. and Djokovic won 15 sets by score of 6-2 or better, Berdych won.. zero.

I mean guys, this is pretty bad, I dont understand . Berdych has great serve, clean groundstrokes, high peak level, no huge weaknesses I think. He has beat Djokovic 2 times at Wimbledon, and has beat him on clay, so it is not like Djokovic is really that unbeatable.

Djokovic is great on hardcourts but there are a lot of hardcourts on tour, he is bound to lose sometime, why never to Berdych. And why does he always play so well against Berdych? What do you guys think? I like Berdych game so this is frustrating.
Berdych is just a kind of Daniil but than much worse. Especially in the mental department.
 

tudwell

Legend
Berdych's game was just not very dynamic. He had a very solid core (good serve, clean, compact groundies, decent return, etc.) but not much variety or variability. I'd be interested to see the spread of, say, his forehand speed. He obviously hit the ball pretty hard most of the time, but I don't remember him every really unloading on a forehand the way other guys his size or with his aggressive gameplan do. Certainly nothing Delpo-esque. He had very clean, controlled, compact swings, and that was a strength in that it leant his game a consistency that most players of his size and movement couldn't ever really maintain, but it was also a weakness against the very best players like Djokovic because he didn't really have any higher gear to try and find. His serve was similar. Good, but not a ton of variety and could never really zone on serve the way someone like Cilic could. And his movement was a weakness – he was great playing neutral rallies and dictating from the center of the court, but pull him wide and his mechanics fell apart.

Still, it's impressive that Djokovic never lost even once to him on hard court.
 

topher

Hall of Fame
Djokovic read the Berdych serve like a children’s book, and he also loved using Berdych’s pace against him.

I don’t know exactly why it was that one sided but I do know players who hit hard and weren’t great movers played directly into younger Djokovic’s hands.
You’re right about the matchup I think. But Berdych, who is a couple years older and got good quick and never really got much better, also didn’t really get to play “young” Djokovic.

Their first match was in 2008 after Novak won his 1st slam and was world #3. I think if they’d played in younger Novak’s first few years on tour, Berd would’ve stood a much better chance at netting a HC win.

It also didn’t help that Berd’s most consistent years on tour aligned with Novak’s best. And in Novak’s 2017-2018 slump they didn’t meet once on HC.

And then again Berd had big losing streaks to all the Big 3. Losing 17 straight to Rafa, until 2015, losing 8 and 9 straight to Roger, even 7 to Murray. He was the ultimate gatekeeper, it seemed.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Berdych's game was just not very dynamic. He had a very solid core (good serve, clean, compact groundies, decent return, etc.) but not much variety or variability. I'd be interested to see the spread of, say, his forehand speed. He obviously hit the ball pretty hard most of the time, but I don't remember him every really unloading on a forehand the way other guys his size or with his aggressive gameplan do. Certainly nothing Delpo-esque. He had very clean, controlled, compact swings, and that was a strength in that it leant his game a consistency that most players of his size and movement couldn't ever really maintain, but it was also a weakness against the very best players like Djokovic because he didn't really have any higher gear to try and find. His serve was similar. Good, but not a ton of variety and could never really zone on serve the way someone like Cilic could. And his movement was a weakness – he was great playing neutral rallies and dictating from the center of the court, but pull him wide and his mechanics fell apart.

Still, it's impressive that Djokovic never lost even once to him on hard court.
He was more volatile in his early years, I think he traded explosive injections of pace for consistency.
 
Cilic and Ferrer were also among Joe's favourite pigeons but managed to snatch a win when he wasn't quite alright. Purrdick could/should have done the same but let himself down mentally when he had the chance.
 

Kralingen

Hall of Fame
hard and flat hitting.
Stan hits with significantly more topspin than Berdych.
While Stan isn't a great mover, he's still a good one and clearly better than Berdych.
yeah he’s not what i’d call fast or a great vertical mover but. Prime Stan’s horizontal quickness and stretch-hitting are highly underrated. If we talk about “swing radius”, Stan was able to hit a quality shot on the stretch extremely well.

Berdych was definitely a bigger hitter off the FH wing though. He could wipe you out in one shot. Wawrinka was more of a push you back and piecemeal overpower you type though he obviously had great power. AO 2014 SF is a great match honestly. I have come back to it a couple times - one of the better non-Big 3 matchups in recent memory.

No coincidence that Berdych was able to play Fedal better on HC than Stan either as his serve was definitely better and he was more of a compact hitter. At his best when playing Fedal with declined movement, he could hit through them to an extent.

I definitely feel like Stan’s ball was a nightmare to deal with off both wings though. Heavy topspin but also speed, and good disguise and use of angles. His form basically had no discernible difference between a BH cross court or DTL - a lot of guys telegraph it with their footwork or take-back. It’s a perfect recipe to push his opponents behind the baseline and put them in defensive mode. That combined with great mental/physical stamina is what gave Djokovic nightmares imo.
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
For how much people like to use players like Thomas to **** on next gen and yes he played a better big 3 but his record is awful against them.

Tsonga led Djokovic 5-2 then lost 17-6. Ferrer is 0-17 against Fed. These players where just as useless against big 3
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
I had no idea and that's damn impressive considering how dangerous Berdych could be on any surface when he's on.
 
For how much people like to use players like Thomas to **** on next gen and yes he played a better big 3 but his record is awful against them.

Tsonga led Djokovic 5-2 then lost 17-6. Ferrer is 0-17 against Fed. These players where just as useless against big 3
Berdych and Tsonga have a higher peak than any nextgenies at 3/4 majors each...
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
Berdych and Tsonga have a higher peak than any nextgenies at 3/4 majors each...
You might be right but I feel at the end of Med career his AO/US level be above all. Tsonga(loved him) performance against Nadal in AO08 was insane high level but that’s the problem with Tsonga/Berdych is the next day it falls off a cliff. There is a reason Murray is more successful for example as his base level is so much higher. Med overall day to day level is better than Tsonga and Berdych
 
You might be right but I feel at the end of Med career his AO/US level be above all. Tsonga(loved him) performance against Nadal in AO08 was insane high level but that’s the problem with Tsonga/Berdych is the next day it falls off a cliff. There is a reason Murray is more successful for example as his base level is so much higher. Med overall day to day level is better than Tsonga and Berdych
Medvedev has yet to prove himself in slams other than the USO. This year's AO was his first run past 4R and he made the final but endured a weak loss.
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
Medvedev has yet to prove himself in slams other than the USO. This year's AO was his first run past 4R and he made the final but endured a weak loss.
That is true. He will never do anything at RG he hits to flat too be a threat there and yes his Wimbledon and Australian Open records could be better but his level is getting better.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
"I just said to my coach now that I probably played over 700 matches in my career, and I met guys like Andre, Roger, all those probably in their best times. But I have never, ever experienced anything like that."
Beijing 14?
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
Beijing 14?
Has to be doesn’t it. I watched that back a few months ago Berdych didn’t play that bad.
It’s like Djokodal Doha 16. Finished 6-1 6-2 could of been worse, Djokovic hit more winners than Nadal won points.
Djokovic at his best on a HC that suited him was unplayable
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Has to be doesn’t it. I watched that back a few months ago Berdych didn’t play that bad.
It’s like Djokodal Doha 16. Finished 6-1 6-2 could of been worse, Djokovic hit more winners than Nadal won points.
Djokovic at his best on a HC that suited him was unplayable
Doha 16 was one of those matches that I'll never get tired of seeing. It's like he was using the Force.
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
Doha 16 was one of those matches that I'll never get tired of seeing. It's like he was using the Force.
Highest level I’ve ever seen from Djokovic. Nadal said after the match it’s the highest level he ever played against. Think it made Nadal feel like the rest do when they played him on Clay at his peak. He literally couldn’t do anything
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Highest level I’ve ever seen from Djokovic. Nadal said after the match it’s the highest level he ever played against. Think it made Nadal feel like the rest do when they played him on Clay at his peak. He literally couldn’t do anything
It was different from peak Nadal IMO. Nadal on clay would just get every ball back in play, hit crazy spin, keep you pinned back in the court, and suffocate the life out of you from that corner. Djokovic in that match was just ripping winners from every part of the court. It was like video game tennis.

I feel like a loss to peak Djokovic would be much easier to take. When you're seeing winner after winner fly past you, it's easier to tip your hat and say "too good". Against Nadal you might feel like you're making him play, but you're just having the physical and mental energy squeezed out of you, slowly and painfully. He's not hitting spectacular line-painting shots, he's just smothering you with spin until you miss.
 
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