Djokovic better than Murray on grass?

What do you think?

Murray leads the H2H on grass 1-0, beating Djokovic at the Olympics 2012.

Murray has a higher winning percentage on grass, 3 titles including Olympics victory over a grass GOAT in the Final, leads H2H over Djokovic, and a Wimbledon final.

Djokovic has a Wimbledon title, his sole title on the green.
 

Warmaster

Hall of Fame
I do think Murray is the better player on grass, he moves a lot better.

But Djokovic has the Wimbledon title so he is by far the more accomplished of the two.

My guess is at the end of their careers, Murray will have the edge on grass.
 

MonkeyBoy

Hall of Fame
In 2011 form Djokovic may just have edged on the green, but at this point in time? The Muzz. No question.

With Federer and Nadal on their way out, and no rising challengers on the horizon, I think Murray could win the next 7 consecutive Wimbledons.
 

ScottleeSV

Hall of Fame
Gotta agree with Incognito. Not a dig at Murray (who did very well on grass last year).

Murray may well yet Wimbledon just so long as avoids Berdych, Nadal, and Federer on a day when it rains.
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
Murray is BETTER on grass. Djokovic is more ACCOMPLISHED.
Pretty much sums it up. All the check marks for categories and conjecture are crushed by who lifted the biggest trophy in tennis and who didn't. The Olympics was a nice win; but a significantly weaker field, 2 out of 3 until the end.

I have a gut feeling that Andy will beat Nadal this year too.
Trip to the doctor? If Murray is to win Wimbledon he better hope someone else takes care of Nadal for him.
 

Homeboy Hotel

Hall of Fame
Trip to the doctor? If Murray is to win Wimbledon he better hope someone else takes care of Nadal for him.

Nadal's French Open form is usually a good indication of how well he will play at Wimbledon.

This year at Paris so far, crap.

Whereas, Murray will be fresh. I pick Murray.
 

Incognito

Legend
Trip to the doctor? If Murray is to win Wimbledon he better hope someone else takes care of Nadal for him.

Well, nobody thought someone would beat Nadal at Roland Garros 2009 where he is the strongest. Murray is not just some journey man, he can actually play great tennis and has proven capable of beating Nadal on the big stages. I'll save that trip to the doctor when I start believing "gut feelings" are absolute, but thanks for the concern :D
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
Whereas, Murray will be fresh. I pick Murray.
I suspect Lendl may have discussed this with Murray - like the old days when he skipped RG with no injuries, hoping to win the biggest of the big ones.

Murray will be fresher. But Nadal is still an issue for him - at least winning 3 sets. Of course maybe the AELTC will do us a favor and use faster balls. I can always dream.
 

Cosmic_Colin

Professional
Murray is BETTER on grass. Djokovic is more ACCOMPLISHED.

This.

I've always thought Djokovic's 2011 Wimbledon was more about him riding a wave of confidence rather than being a master of Grass

I'd rank him 4th among active players for overall grass game. I think prime Roddick was better.
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
Not sure why are some so sure that Murray is better on grass?! A pathetic final and the Olympic gold. All in 2012. Right now we have no idea where he is in 2013. I hope he wins it though.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Not sure why are some so sure that Murray is better on grass?! A pathetic final and the Olympic gold. All in 2012.

What exactly was pathetic about the final or the Olympic gold or that he did both in 2012? So what? Murray has been winning grass titles since 2009. Djokovic only ever won on grass in 2011!
 

Gonzo_style

Hall of Fame
What exactly was pathetic about the final or the Olympic gold or that he did both in 2012? So what? Murray has been winning grass titles since 2009. Djokovic only ever won on grass in 2011!

But it was the biggest title on grass.
And Djokovic beat defending champion in the final.
If Murray win Wimbledon this year, I'll put him over Djokovic on grass, no doubt. Until then, no.
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
What exactly was pathetic about the final or the Olympic gold or that he did both in 2012? So what? Murray has been winning grass titles since 2009. Djokovic only ever won on grass in 2011!

Pathetic was his performance during that Wimby final against RF.
and many more performances in the finals of the GSs
 

Andres

G.O.A.T.
This doesn't make sense to me. If he is better, why is he not more accomplished?
Because in this case, the measurement bar is WINNING Wimbledon.

Why is Murray better? Because he has better grass results. Djokovic is the most accomplished Wimbledon player, because he actually WON one.

In my opinion, everything considered, Murray is also a more accomplished grasscourter than Nole. The stats back us up: Murray is 61-14 on grass with 3 titles. (.813 winning percentage). Djokovic is 47-14 (.770) with only one title, but that one title is Wimbledon

Since Wimby is the measurement bar for grasscourt success, Djokovic should be considered the most accomplished grasscourter of them both, although Murray has historically had the better results.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Pathetic was his performance during that Wimby final against RF.

No it wasn't. Nor have you stated anything to back up your absurd statement!
I daresay you thought his performance at the Olympic final was 'pathetic' as well! :rolleyes:

and many more performances in the finals of the GSs

Well of course. I've no doubt you think he's been 'pathetic' in every single final he's ever played! :twisted:
 
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NEW_BORN

Hall of Fame
NO.
Djokovic is the better player overall, but Murray is the superior grass court player - Better serve; Better volleys; Better movement.
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
No it wasn't. Nor have you stated anything to back up your absurd statement!
I daresay you thought his performance at the Olympic final was 'pathetic' as well! :rolleyes:



Well of course. I've no doubt you think he's been 'pathetic' in every single final he's ever played! :twisted:

I did not say that and Murray is one of my favorite players. However, he's shown many times that his mental strength is....not there (yet).
Yes, Federer walked over him last year at Wimby, and all of us expected more
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
NO.
Djokovic is the better player overall, but Murray is the superior grass court player - Better serve; Better volleys; Better movement.

Neither of the three is better for Murray.
His second serve is weak.
Their movement is very comparable.
I believe Novak has better net game
 

NEW_BORN

Hall of Fame
Neither of the three is better for Murray.
His second serve is weak.
Their movement is very comparable.
I believe Novak has better net game

On grass which is what we're talking about here, Murray's movement is far greater. Djokovic can barely keep his footing when running after shots or changing directions. His greatest weapon - his flexibility - is pretty much nullified.

As for the serve and net game well, Murray's serve yields more free points and his volleys / overheads are way more likely to end inside the court, if you get my drift.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Because in this case, the measurement bar is WINNING Wimbledon.

Why is Murray better? Because he has better grass results. Djokovic is the most accomplished Wimbledon player, because he actually WON one.

In my opinion, everything considered, Murray is also a more accomplished grasscourter than Nole. The stats back us up: Murray is 61-14 on grass with 3 titles. (.813 winning percentage). Djokovic is 47-14 (.770) with only one title, but that one title is Wimbledon

Since Wimby is the measurement bar for grasscourt success, Djokovic should be considered the most accomplished grasscourter of them both, although Murray has historically had the better results.

Grass season is practically non-existent, it's a couple of warm-up tourneys and the ultimate prize which is Wimbledon.

Who cares about who has more grasscourt titles, do you consider Roddick to be better than Goran because he has more Queens titles or something? You draw the line between being more accomplished/greater and better but then you conclude Murray is better because he has a couple of Queen titles.

The biggest accomplishment Murray has on grass is Olympic Gold Medal, great achievement but one that is still nowhere near winning Wimbledon by beating the 2nd best grasscourt player of this era in the final (Nadal on modern grass is almost a Becker equivalent on the old grass) in his prime, other than that they both have one final and Murray has an additional SF if I'm not mistaken.

Now Murray's game may be more suited for grass but that's hardly that relevant, Coria's and Medvedev's games are more suited to clay than Fed's, that doesn't mean he isn't better than them on the dirt.

In short, you're basically saying winning Wimbledon makes you greater not better but winning a few Queens titles makes you a better grasscourt player, please.
 

Zildite

Hall of Fame
I get the feeling Murray in reasonable form is better than Djokovic in reasonable form, but Djokovic had that supercharged level in 2011 which helped get him the big win.
Trump card Wimby win, bam gotcha.
Best to check it when their careers are over, don't see it staying at 1-0.
 

xan

Hall of Fame
What do you think?

Murray leads the H2H on grass 1-0, beating Djokovic at the Olympics 2012.

Murray has a higher winning percentage on grass, 3 titles including Olympics victory over a grass GOAT in the Final, leads H2H over Djokovic, and a Wimbledon final.

Djokovic has a Wimbledon title, his sole title on the green.

since when does Murray have leading h2h over Djokovic?
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
I get the feeling Murray in reasonable form is better than Djokovic in reasonable form, but Djokovic had that supercharged level in 2011 which helped get him the big win.
Trump card Wimby win, bam gotcha.
Best to check it when their careers are over, don't see it staying at 1-0.

That's reasonable, if 2011 turns out to be one off for Novak and Murray wins a Wimbledon or two then sure considering Murray to be a better grasscourt player would be perfectly valid.

That said, I'm not sure it was a one off for Novak, I think he's a bit underrated on grass, time will tell anyway.

since when does Murray have leading h2h over Djokovic?

He means on grass, surface specific H2H, not that that is so crucial when they only had one single meeting.
 

batz

G.O.A.T.
Neither of the three is better for Murray.
His second serve is weak.
Their movement is very comparable.
I believe Novak has better net game

Yeah - OK mate. You were doing OK up until that point. If there is one obvious thing that Andy Murray does better than Novak Djokovic, then that one thing would be movement on grass.

As for the original question, Novak has a Wimbledon title, Murray hasn't. It is therefore difficult IMO to argue that Murray is a better grasscourter than Novak - but Stevie Wonder can see Murray moves better on that surface.
 

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
Because in this case, the measurement bar is WINNING Wimbledon.

Why is Murray better? Because he has better grass results. Djokovic is the most accomplished Wimbledon player, because he actually WON one.

In my opinion, everything considered, Murray is also a more accomplished grasscourter than Nole. The stats back us up: Murray is 61-14 on grass with 3 titles. (.813 winning percentage). Djokovic is 47-14 (.770) with only one title, but that one title is Wimbledon

Since Wimby is the measurement bar for grasscourt success, Djokovic should be considered the most accomplished grasscourter of them both, although Murray has historically had the better results.

Ok, it is an interesting reasoning. But by using the same reasoning Federer is better clay courter than Guga. 5 RG finals, 5 consecutive semis. 1 win. Losing only to clay goat.

I'm ok with this reasoning as long as it applies for all players.

How do you rate Hewitt or Roddick on grass vs Murray and DJokovic?
 

thejoe

Hall of Fame
If Andy was to pick up the title at SW19 then it'd be beyond question. But, right now, Novak's Wimbledon title trumps all of Murray's achievements.
 

ark_28

Legend
Wimbledon is the world's premier grass court event.

With that in mind... Djokovic 1 Wimbledon title, Murray 0 Wimbledon titles.

Case closed.
 

mattennis

Hall of Fame
Ok, it is an interesting reasoning. But by using the same reasoning Federer is better clay courter than Guga. 5 RG finals, 5 consecutive semis. 1 win. Losing only to clay goat.

I'm ok with this reasoning as long as it applies for all players.

How do you rate Hewitt or Roddick on grass vs Murray and DJokovic?



Federer and Kuerten are from different eras, that is the difference here.


Murray and Djokovic are the same age, are playing against the same rivals and under exactly the same conditions. It makes sense to compare their results.

I agree that top players don't try hard in the grass warm-up tournaments, just simply take them as getting in contact with the surface. So in this era really Wimbledon is the only big grass tournament that's left.

In Wimbledon:

Djokovic has 1 title, 3 SF and 1 QF.

Murray has 1 final, 3 SF and 1 QF.

OG on grass last year was quite a "big" tournament (at least "bigger" than Queens or Halle or Hertogenbosh...) so I would say resuts-wise are quite similar, but at the end, Djokovic has 1 GS title on grass and Murray 0 GS titles on grass.

These comparisons are not easy (even among players from the same era).

For example, Lendl and Wilander were from the same era, played against the same rivals under the same conditions. Who was better on grass?

The two big tournaments on grass were Wimbledon and the Australian Open.

Lendl had 3 GS finals on grass (2 at WB and 1 at the AO ) and 7 SF ( 5 at WB and 2 at the AO).

Wilander had 2 GS titles on grass (both at the AO ) and 1 other final (also at the AO ) and 3 QF (at WB ).


Lendl was more consistent on grass, but Wilander won 2 GS titles on grass.

Which one was better on grass? As with almost everything, you'll have different opinions here as well.
 

The Bawss

Banned
Yeah - OK mate. You were doing OK up until that point. If there is one obvious thing that Andy Murray does better than Novak Djokovic, then that one thing would be movement on grass.

As for the original question, Novak has a Wimbledon title, Murray hasn't. It is therefore difficult IMO to argue that Murray is a better grasscourter than Novak - but Stevie Wonder can see Murray moves better on that surface.

That's racist. Just because there's not very many african-american players on the pro tour doesn't mean they don't know anything about tennis.
 

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
Federer and Kuerten are from different eras, that is the difference here.


Murray and Djokovic are the same age, are playing against the same rivals and under exactly the same conditions. It makes sense to compare their results.

I agree that top players don't try hard in the grass warm-up tournaments, just simply take them as getting in contact with the surface. So in this era really Wimbledon is the only big grass tournament that's left.

In Wimbledon:

Djokovic has 1 title, 3 SF and 1 QF.

Murray has 1 final, 3 SF and 1 QF.

OG on grass last year was quite a "big" tournament (at least "bigger" than Queens or Halle or Hertogenbosh...) so I would say resuts-wise are quite similar, but at the end, Djokovic has 1 GS title on grass and Murray 0 GS titles on grass.

These comparisons are not easy (even among players from the same era).

For example, Lendl and Wilander were from the same era, played against the same rivals under the same conditions. Who was better on grass?

The two big tournaments on grass were Wimbledon and the Australian Open.

Lendl had 3 GS finals on grass (2 at WB and 1 at the AO ) and 7 SF ( 5 at WB and 2 at the AO).

Wilander had 2 GS titles on grass (both at the AO ) and 1 other final (also at the AO ) and 3 QF (at WB ).


Lendl was more consistent on grass, but Wilander won 2 GS titles on grass.

Which one was better on grass? As with almost everything, you'll have different opinions here as well.

Yes, you are right. They are very close. So you don't have obvious distinction like Fed vs Roddick for example.

And those are second tier players on grass, so we can't compare big titles, since both don't have many.

Comparing second tier players is harder yes. Even greats is harder unless there is a big difference like at least 2 slams between them.

And some people value achievements more, some people consistency more.
Roddick vs Djokovic on grass for example.

So in W, Murray and Djokovic are the same in consistency, but Djokovic has a win.

But Murray has OG which was 3 sets in final and he has queens. He beat Djokovic and Fed, who is best of this era. But Djoker also beat Nadal at the most important tournament which is also very impressive.

So you can't put one above the other really. For me they are now tied.
Although if hard pressed OG on grass were like once in this era. So it is so much luck involved. So if pressed hard I'd put Djokovic over Murray but only with the asterisk for OG.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
since when does Murray have leading h2h over Djokovic?

He does on grass. He beat Djokovic in their only meeting on grass to date ie. the semi-final of the 2012 Olympics.

In the final analysis though, Djokovic has a Wimbledon GS title and Murray doesn't so I agree that Djokovic's accomplishments on that surface trumps Murray's.
 
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xan

Hall of Fame
He does on grass. He beat Djokovic in their only meeting on grass to date ie. the semi-final of the 2012 Olympics.

In the final analysis though, Djokovic has a Wimbledon GS title and Murray doesn't so I agree that Djokovic's accomplishments on that surface trumps Murray's.

but he already mentioned that, then he just adds it again?...
 

ark_28

Legend
I should also add neither has met John Isner on grass, the fact of the matter is John has won the longest match in the history of the game on this surface, and also hit the most aces in a match at Wimbledon, until both players have faced this colossal force on grass it is very tough to split them I still give the edge to Djokovic because he won Wimbledon though.
 
That's racist. Just because there's not very many african-american players on the pro tour doesn't mean they don't know anything about tennis.

As a black man myself, I struggle to see why that statement is racist. If he would've said Billy Baxter, would that have been better? (White man, got injured in the Bosnian war and got blind as a result)
 

xan

Hall of Fame
I don't quite follow you. You asked the question,"Since when does Murray have leading h2h over Djokovic?"

it wasn't really a question.. I know very well overall h2h is in Djokovic favor and that Murray has won their only encounter on grass.
see the post I quoted, there is a reason why i asked him that.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
Until Murray wins Wimbledon Djokovic is the greater grass courter but I think is Murray is better and has a better shot to win Wimbledon this year than Djokovic does.
 

kishnabe

Talk Tennis Guru
Murray on Grass is better than Djokovic on Grass

Djokovic on Clay is better than Murray on Clay

Hardcourts= Even
 
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