Djokovic can already become the GOAT in the next slam

#5
If he completes his second NCYGS beating Nadal in the final of Roland Garros wouldn't he be the GOAT in many people's eyes?

What would he have left to prove, really?
To be the overall GOAT, Djokovic needs to win 12 Roland Garros and 9 Wimbledon titles. Otherwise, he is just the hard court GOAT.

Too easy to win the Grand Slam race when 2 of 4 Grand Slams are on hard courts and you are a hard court specialist (in the sense of hard courts being your more succesful court).

If 2 of 4 Grand Slams were on grass, Federer could already have 23 Grand Slams or more.

If 2 of 4 Grand Slams were on clay, Nadal could have 30 Grand Slams.

The Grand Slam count is irrelevant. There will never be an overall GOAT. The Grand Slam count only indicates which player is greater on hard courts, not which player is greater overall.
 

Lew II

Professional
#6
Let me know when Djokovic wins 12 Roland Garros and 9 Wimbledon titles.

Too easy to win the Grand Slam race when 2 of 4 Grand Slams are on hard courts and you are a hard court specialist (in the sense of hard courts being your more succesful court).

If 2 of 4 Grand Slams were on grass, Federer could already have 23 Grand Slams or more.

If 2 of 4 Grand Slams were on clay, Nadal could have 30 Grand Slams.

The Grand Slam count is irrelevant. There will never be an overall GOAT. The Grand Slam count only indicates which player is greater on hard courts, not which player is greater overall.
hardcourt is a more important surface
 
#8
To be the overall GOAT, Djokovic needs to win 12 Roland Garros and 9 Wimbledon titles. Otherwise, he is just the hard court GOAT.

Too easy to win the Grand Slam race when 2 of 4 Grand Slams are on hard courts and you are a hard court specialist (in the sense of hard courts being your more succesful court).

If 2 of 4 Grand Slams were on grass, Federer could already have 23 Grand Slams or more.

If 2 of 4 Grand Slams were on clay, Nadal could have 30 Grand Slams.

The Grand Slam count is irrelevant. There will never be an overall GOAT. The Grand Slam count only indicates which player is greater on hard courts, not which player is greater overall.
It's quite the opposite of what's bolded because everyone excels on hardcourts.

Do you really think Nadal chose the harder way? Lol.

If 2 of 4 Grand Slams were on clay, Nadal would be a hardcourt specialist since it would be easier to win on hardcourts compared to clay.
 
#9
To be the overall GOAT, Djokovic needs to win 12 Roland Garros and 9 Wimbledon titles. Otherwise, he is just the hard court GOAT.

Too easy to win the Grand Slam race when 2 of 4 Grand Slams are on hard courts and you are a hard court specialist (in the sense of hard courts being your more succesful court).

If 2 of 4 Grand Slams were on grass, Federer could already have 23 Grand Slams or more.

If 2 of 4 Grand Slams were on clay, Nadal could have 30 Grand Slams.

The Grand Slam count is irrelevant. There will never be an overall GOAT. The Grand Slam count only indicates which player is greater on hard courts, not which player is greater overall.
You are a Nadal fan I suppose?

Djokovic will be tied overall GOAT when he wins 20 slams and overall GOAT when he wins 21, nothing more to the equation.

All of these players started playing tennis knowing there were 2 hard court grand slams, 1 grass and 1 clay... the AO or USO was not added as a Grand Slam half way through Djokovic's career.

Therefore it is up to them to be a specialist on whatever surface suits them. And Rafa's is clay, finished.
 
#10
Djokovic is already the GOAT in my eyes.
Based on what? There is no argument to put Djokovic as the GOAT.

H2H overall? Roddick leads overall Djokovic 5-4, so he would be the GOAT according to that criterion.

H2H in Grand Slams? Nadal leads Djokovic 9-6 in Grand Slams (inclduing 2-1 at the US Open), so he would be the GOAT according to that criterion.

NCYGS? Laver made the CYGS twice, not only once, so he would be the GOAT according to that criterion.
 
#11
It's quite the opposite of what's bolded because everyone excels on hardcourts.
False. Some players play substantially better on grass or clay than hard courts.

Why does Federer have "only" 5 US Open and 8 Wimbledon titles? If there were 2 Grand Slams on grass, he could have already 23 Grand Slams.

Why does Nadal have 1 Australian Open and 11 Roland Garros titles? If there were 2 Grand Slams on clay. Nadal could have already 30 Grand Slams.

The Grand Slam count is irrelevant, since 2 of 4 Grand Slams are on hard courts. The Grand Slam record doesn't indicate which player is greater overall, but which player is greater on hard courts.
 

Lew II

Professional
#12
For Djokovic fans, because Djokovic is a hard court specialist (in the sense of hard court being his best court).

If there were 2 Grand Slams on clay, or 2 Grand Slams on grass, you would be the first to complain.
For the world, not for Djokovic fans.

The majority of tournaments at all levels are on hardcourt, and hardcourt is the most neutral surface game wise.
 
#14
You are a Nadal fan I suppose?

Djokovic will be tied overall GOAT when he wins 20 slams and overall GOAT when he wins 21
Nope. There will never be a tennis GOAT.

The Grand Slam count is irrelevant, since 2 of 4 Grand Slams are on hard courts. The Grand Slam record doesn't indicate which player is greater overall, but which player is greater on hard courts.

If there were 2 Grand Slams on clay. Nadal could have already 30 Grand Slams. If there were 2 Grand Slams on grass, he could have already 23 Grand Slams.

The Grand Slam count would only be relevant if 33% of Grand Slams were on clay, 33% were on hard courts, and 33% were on grass. Otherwise, it just indicates which player is greater on hard courts not overall.
 
#18
Nope. There will never be a tennis GOAT.

The Grand Slam count is irrelevant, since 2 of 4 Grand Slams are on hard courts. The Grand Slam record doesn't indicate which player is greater overall, but which player is greater on hard courts.

If there were 2 Grand Slams on clay. Nadal could have already 30 Grand Slams. If there were 2 Grand Slams on grass, he could have already 23 Grand Slams.

The Grand Slam count would only be relevant if 33% of Grand Slams were on clay, 33% were on hard courts, and 33% were on grass. Otherwise, it just indicates which player is greater on hard courts not overall.
I see you didn't quote the main point of my post.

Nadal knew there were 2 hard court slams, nobody else's fault. Djokovic will be GOAT at 21.
 
#19
For Djokovic fans, because Djokovic is a hard court specialist (in the sense of hard court being his best court).

If there were 2 Grand Slams on clay, or 2 Grand Slams on grass, you would be the first to complain.
What would you classify Becker as?
 

Lew II

Professional
#20
There is no such thing as a "neutral" surface. Hard court suits Djokovic's game more than Federer's or Nadal's one.
Look, when Nadal was born clay already had only 1 slam tournament.

He decided to become specialist of a less important surface, therefore with less competition, because this is what suited his abilites.

With your logic otherwise we could say that if tennis was about who generates the most spin or picks his butt the most, Nadal would be the GOAT.
 
#23
There is no such thing as a "neutral" surface. Hard court suits Djokovic's game more than Federer's or Nadal's one.
That's why Nadal can't be considered the GOAT. King of clay with amazing results elsewhere surely. The other 2 are better tennis players Outdoor indoors grass hard court etc etc
 
#24
False. Some players play substantially better on grass or clay than hard courts.

Why does Federer have "only" 5 US Open and 8 Wimbledon titles? If there were 2 Grand Slams on grass, he could have already 23 Grand Slams.

Why does Nadal have 1 Australian Open and 11 Roland Garros titles? If there were 2 Grand Slams on clay. Nadal could have already 30 Grand Slams.

The Grand Slam count is irrelevant, since 2 of 4 Grand Slams are on hard courts. The Grand Slam record doesn't indicate which player is greater overall, but which player is greater on hard courts.
It is what it is. If there were more clay slams or grass slams the rest of the trour players would be better on those surfaces hence Nadal might not be as dominant
 
#25
There is no such thing as a "neutral" surface. Hard court suits Djokovic's game more than Federer's or Nadal's one.
If you 'd listen to Nadal and his fans, the tour would only be played outdoor in windy conditions on clay. That's why they don't want to take into account the world tour finals.
 
#28
Based on what? There is no argument to put Djokovic as the GOAT.

H2H overall? Roddick leads overall Djokovic 5-4, so he would be the GOAT according to that criterion.

H2H in Grand Slams? Nadal leads Djokovic 9-6 in Grand Slams (inclduing 2-1 at the US Open), so he would be the GOAT according to that criterion.

NCYGS? Laver made the CYGS twice, not only once, so he would be the GOAT according to that criterion.
Roddick is not Djokovic main rival. Federer, Nadal and Murray is.

Nice Cherry picking, h2h in slams? H2h overall, 28-25 Djokovic. If you wanna cherry pick slams, Djokovic leads the h2h over Nadal on HC and grass in Grand slams. Being better on 2 surfaces > Being better on one surface. Sorry to tell ya that mate.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
#29
I see no controversy in the OP's statement.

After all even now a lot of people consider him things that he isn't for their personal reasons.

I don’t see why winning one more Major is worse than that.

:cool:
 
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#30
To be the overall GOAT, Djokovic needs to win 12 Roland Garros and 9 Wimbledon titles. Otherwise, he is just the hard court GOAT.

Too easy to win the Grand Slam race when 2 of 4 Grand Slams are on hard courts and you are a hard court specialist (in the sense of hard courts being your more succesful court).

If 2 of 4 Grand Slams were on grass, Federer could already have 23 Grand Slams or more.

If 2 of 4 Grand Slams were on clay, Nadal could have 30 Grand Slams.

The Grand Slam count is irrelevant. There will never be an overall GOAT. The Grand Slam count only indicates which player is greater on hard courts, not which player is greater overall.
Love how AO Final has brought enlightenment to Nadal fans. Before the final they were already looking at 19 slams by FO, one short of Federer .. possible GOAT .... :-D And now ... there will never be an overall GOAT .... ROFL
 
#34
I agree that would be some super human achievement. I think that achievement would inspire him further to do the CYGS too. He won’t let up like he did last time. He’s learned from the past and he’s peaking better in slams now!

If Djoko wins the FO he could become the GOAT very soon. He’s be above nadal then for sure and breathing down feds neck!
 

tudwell

Hall of Fame
#36
It would be a monumental, historic achievement, and I’d love to see him attain it, but it wouldn’t catapult him all the way to being undisputed GOAT.
 
#37
To be the overall GOAT, Djokovic needs to win 12 Roland Garros and 9 Wimbledon titles. Otherwise, he is just the hard court GOAT.

Too easy to win the Grand Slam race when 2 of 4 Grand Slams are on hard courts and you are a hard court specialist (in the sense of hard courts being your more succesful court).

If 2 of 4 Grand Slams were on grass, Federer could already have 23 Grand Slams or more.

If 2 of 4 Grand Slams were on clay, Nadal could have 30 Grand Slams.

The Grand Slam count is irrelevant. There will never be an overall GOAT. The Grand Slam count only indicates which player is greater on hard courts, not which player is greater overall.
So in your definition to be a GOAT you need to be GOAT of all the most important tournaments individually?
 

thrust

Hall of Fame
#40
For Djokovic fans, because Djokovic is a hard court specialist (in the sense of hard court being his best court).

If there were 2 Grand Slams on clay, or 2 Grand Slams on grass, you would be the first to complain.
Slam court surfaces are what they are. Players know this and all need to adapt to those surfaces in order to win. Of the top three, Nadal's performance in slams is more lopsided as to surface, with 11 of his 17 on clay. Federer and Novak are similar in their slam court surface success. Overall, I would rate Novak over Roger on clay, Roger on grass and about even on hard, with Nadal probably the clay GOAT. As for the pre open era players post 1950 I would rate Rosewall, Laver, then Gonzalez as the all court surface great players.
 
#41
Slam surfaces are what they are is not a convincing argument

Surfaces have been changed at USO and AO not too long ago.

Nadal would have whipped everyone’s rear if there had been 2 clay slams and you all know it

Nadal is the GOAT for me objectively speaking taking into account how he was the big daddy of all in big matches
 
#42
Slam surfaces are what they are is not a convincing argument

Surfaces have been changed at USO and AO not too long ago.

Nadal would have whipped everyone’s rear if there had been 2 clay slams and you all know it

Nadal is the GOAT for me objectively speaking taking into account how he was the big daddy of all in big matches
Every single tournaments should be played on clay world tour finals included. Like this Nadal would the undisputed GOAT.
 

uscwang

Hall of Fame
#45
If he completes his second NCYGS beating Nadal in the final of Roland Garros wouldn't he be the GOAT in many people's eyes?

What would he have left to prove, really?
I hope Novak remains motivated. Beating Nadal in RG, winning 4 GS in a row, neither are new for Novak. He is setting his goal higher than that.

Be patient and enjoy the next several years when Novak will keep improving himself in response to challenges from players 10 years younger.
 
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#47
To be the overall GOAT, Djokovic needs to win 12 Roland Garros and 9 Wimbledon titles. Otherwise, he is just the hard court GOAT.

Too easy to win the Grand Slam race when 2 of 4 Grand Slams are on hard courts and you are a hard court specialist (in the sense of hard courts being your more succesful court).

If 2 of 4 Grand Slams were on grass, Federer could already have 23 Grand Slams or more.

If 2 of 4 Grand Slams were on clay, Nadal could have 30 Grand Slams.

The Grand Slam count is irrelevant. There will never be an overall GOAT. The Grand Slam count only indicates which player is greater on hard courts, not which player is greater overall.
I usually like your posts. But this, this.......this is one huge phat L O L. :)
 
#50
If he completes his second NCYGS beating Nadal in the final of Roland Garros wouldn't he be the GOAT in many people's eyes?

What would he have left to prove, really?
The answer has to be that Djokovic even with 16 Slams is at least on par with Fed if he does that.

Arguably greater.
 
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