Djokovic - can he become greater than Federer on two surfaces?

Can Djokovic become greater on 2/3 surfaces?

  • Yes, he has a very good chance

    Votes: 9 50.0%

  • No, he will have drastic decline next year so he won't make up for it

    Votes: 3 16.7%

  • Djokovic will never win FO, therefore this discussion is invalid

    Votes: 6 33.3%
  • Total voters
    18
  • Poll closed .
Noleberic123 said:
Wawrinka played below par. Djokovic played below par. Djokovic played better than Wawrinka. Djokovic won. Pack your bags, close the factory and get on with your life.
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I have moved on. Djokovic2011 asked what would've been a tough draw for djoko in AO 15 ..I answered with an in-form stan in that SF (partly ) ...that's it ..
 
abmk said:
winning AO does not mean having to play vs djokodal or we have to void every title before that ..
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For once I agree. But, at the same time, his inability to do something against any of them post 2007 (he was just 25 than, remember Djokovic is 29 now) is one of the reasons I believe he didin't deserve more than he already has.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I only ever talk about the draws/competition when someone else brings it up first Gary(usually a Federer/Nadal fan). I do think Novak had it tougher than Roger at the AO though and there's nothing wrong in my saying that.
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Yes, it's just as freakin' stupid as all the Fed fans trying to prove that all Fed's wins were easier. I'll argue against you just the way I argue with them.

Any fan can always play the easy/hard era card.

I give credit full credit to Novak for all his wins even though I'm not a fan.

When you start doing what your'e doing now you just do the same thing TMF has done for years, but in reverse. ;)
 
****igrade said:
Federer probably has had tougher competition overall than Djokovic; Remember, Federer has had to go through a lot of players to win his AO titles or make a title challenge; Agassi, Murray, Djokovic, Nadal, Nalbandian, Wawrinka, Safin, Hewitt, Ferrero, Roddick, Haas, Gonzalez, Davydenko.


Djokovic has had to face Wawrinka a few times, Nadal, Federer and Murray.






??????????


Is this guy for real?
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Yes. Roddick is just more passive in 2009 than in 2004. Did you expect him to just randomly channel 2004 in that 5th set?
 
user said:
Were you the one to take his body temperature? Be honest.



I'll tell you what luck at AO looks like:

1. Winning 4 AOs while beating only 1 single player ranked higher than #5 in the process (which is JC Ferrero)
2. Winning 4 AOs, with only 1 single win vs Djokodal, that against a 19yo Djokovic
3. Playing someone like Kiefer and Baghdatis in SFs and Finals of a singe tournament
4. Having a injured Nadal not able to defend his title in 2010, just before Djokovic came into his own.

Now that I think of it, Federer is a freaking lottery winner.
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OMG this post should come with a health warning! :D:D
 
Gary Duane said:
Yes, it's just as freakin' stupid as all the Fed fans trying to prove that all Fed's wins were easier. I'll argue against you just the way I argue with them.

Any fan can always play the easy/hard era card.

I give credit full credit to Novak for all his wins even though I'm not a fan.

When you start doing what your'e doing now you just do the same thing TMF has done for years, but in reverse. ;)
Click to expand...
I don't get what you're saying. What's so wrong in my thinking that Novak's competition was tougher? Am I not allowed to have an opinion and express it? I thought that was the whole point of this forum existing in the first place? :confused:
 
user said:
For once I agree. But, at the same time, his inability to do something against any of them post 2007 (he was just 25 than, remember Djokovic is 29 now) is one of the reasons I believe he didin't deserve more than he already has.
Click to expand...

inability to do something against them ? was AO 09 not a close match ? and in contrast to what you think "tired" nadal ; in reality, nadal played his very best tennis in that match ...

08 , he was affected by mono ..

2011 -- would be 2017 equivalent for djokovic ...you think he'd do very well vs someone playing GOATing tennis like himself did in 11 at the AO ...we'll see
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I don't get what you're saying. What's so wrong in my thinking that Novak's competition was tougher? Am I not allowed to have an opinion and express it? I thought that was the whole point of this forum existing in the first place? :confused:
Click to expand...
No. I'm saying that for a very long time I have thought you are one of the fairest people here, and now you are using the same arguments as other fan bases.

I'm saying you have joined the Dark Side. ;) (I'm mostly kidding. I still think you are a good guy.)
 
Gary Duane said:
No. I'm saying that for a very long time I have thought you are one of the fairest people here, and now you are using the same arguments as other fan bases.

I'm saying you have joined the Dark Side. ;) (I'm mostly kidding. I still think you are a good guy.)
Click to expand...
Im a bad influence on him
 
****igrade said:
Federer probably has had tougher competition overall than Djokovic; Remember, Federer has had to go through a lot of players to win his AO titles or make a title challenge; Agassi, Murray, Djokovic, Nadal, Nalbandian, Wawrinka, Safin, Hewitt, Ferrero, Roddick, Haas, Gonzalez, Davydenko.


Djokovic has had to face Wawrinka a few times, Nadal, Federer and Murray.
Click to expand...
Sorry mate, I just don't see it.
 
Noleberic123 said:
Yes. Roddick is just more passive in 2009 than in 2004. Did you expect him to just randomly channel 2004 in that 5th set?
Click to expand...

I never knew what to expect watching Roddick after 04. Sometimes he would crush the ball - Miami 2010, 2012, Dubai 08, Cilic AO 2010, it wasn't the fact he couldn't crush the ball - he was simply unwilling.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Sorry mate, I just don't see it.
Click to expand...

What is there to see????



Federer is older than Djokovic. He has played every good opponent Djokovic has at the AO, and due to Federer being on tour longer, he was able to face off against some champions Djokovic hasn't faced.


What don't you understand?
 
user said:
For once I agree. But, at the same time, his inability to do something against any of them post 2007 (he was just 25 than, remember Djokovic is 29 now) is one of the reasons I believe he didin't deserve more than he already has.
Click to expand...
I also agree with what abmk said there but he does tend to contradict himself where Wimbledon and Djokovic are concerned given he seems to believe that Novak's last two titles were undeserved due to not having to beat "peak" Federer to earn them. ;)
 
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Djokovic2011 said:
I also agree with what abmk said there but he does tend to contradict himself where Wimbledon and Djokovic are concerned given he seems to believe that Novak's last two titles were undeserved due to not having he to beat "peak" Federer to earn them. ;)
Click to expand...
So what he beat Peak Dimitrov and Peak Gasquet
 
Gary Duane said:
No. I'm saying that for a very long time I have thought you are one of the fairest people here, and now you are using the same arguments as other fan bases.

I'm saying you have joined the Dark Side. ;) (I'm mostly kidding. I still think you are a good guy.)
Click to expand...
I'm a good guy gone bad Gary. And it actually feels pretty damn good. :D

;)
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I also agree with what abmk said there but he does tend to contradict himself where Wimbledon and Djokovic are concerned given he seems to believe that Novak's last two titles were undeserved due to not having he to beat "peak" Federer to earn them. ;)
Click to expand...

I never said he didn't deserve both wim 14/wim 15 ....
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Sorry mate, I just don't see it.
Click to expand...
See, there it is in reverse.

And here is what I was trying to say:

In this forum there are only a few poasters who definitely have their favorite players to watch, obviously rooting for them to win, but people who also don't try to prove that their favorites are better because they like them.

I'm on the side-lines in terms of who is the best, who has had the hardest time, who deserves victories. I'm simply saying that all great players have easy matches and hard matches, easier draws and harder draws. Maybe a weak player can get lucky one time with an easy path, but you don't get to 17 or 14 without some hard slams too. You can't just look at the players across the net by name because any player can get hot for one match, and it only takes one to put a guy out.

Simon - who is going to get excited by Simon as one of the toughest players ever in a slam, a giant killer, the guy who is going to take the best of the best out. But he nearly took out Novak this year. No one is going to remember that 5 or 10 years from now.

Novak has 12 slams now, right? (I think it is 12 now.) I think he has a shot at catching Fed, and he has already set plenty of records of his own. I'll never be a fan, but you will also never catch me pi$$ing all over his accomplishments the way many do here. ;)
 
Noleberic123 said:
I just thought you could join this thread. Since Murray seems to be on the same level as Baghdatis. Whats your thoughts on that?
Click to expand...

that's a total misrepresentation :

murray of AO 12 SF, murray of AO 10 QF, murray of AO 13 SF etc > baghdatis of AO 06 final

what I said was murray of AO 13 final and murray of AO 15 F ~ baghdatis of AO 06 final ..
 
abmk said:
that's a total misrepresentation :

murray of AO 12 SF, murray of AO 10 QF, murray of AO 13 SF etc > baghdatis of AO 06 final

what I said was murray of AO 13 final and murray of AO 15 F ~ baghdatis of AO 06 final ..
Click to expand...
So he has only been poor in finals?
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I'm a good guy gone bad Gary. And it actually feels pretty damn good. :D

;)
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Such a tragedy. ;)

Right now I'm just enjoying the ride. On one hand I want to see a young guy win, finally. As much as I enjoy watching Fed I also think he has had his time and we are ripe for a change.

For me that change also involved someone winning a slam other than either Novak or someone else 29 years old or older.

But it's also pretty exciting that someone could catch Budge, and I NEVER expected that to happen again.

I also enjoy people being wrong, so I get slight malicious glee at watching Novak destroy the lives of people who hate him!
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I'm pretty sure that was the main reason you said he shouldn't have more than two Wimbledon titles the other day. Heaven forbid if he should win it again this year. :D
Click to expand...

nope , main reason was he's lost 5 finals at USO/wim combined -- I think he was good enough to have one of those atleast ...had nothing to do with djoko ..

and closest was delpo of USO 09 final anyways -- 2 points away in the 4th ...
 
abmk said:
that's a total misrepresentation :

murray of AO 12 SF, murray of AO 10 QF, murray of AO 13 SF etc > baghdatis of AO 06 final

what I said was murray of AO 13 final and murray of AO 15 F ~ baghdatis of AO 06 final ..
Click to expand...
Lol, how was Murray worse in the '13 AO final than he was in the semis?
 
abmk said:
nope , main reason was he's lost 5 finals at USO/wim combined -- I think he was good enough to have one of those atleast ...had nothing to do with djoko ..

and closest was delpo of USO 09 final anyways -- 2 points away in the 4th ...
Click to expand...
Yes and Djokovic could have 15 slams by now.
 
Gary Duane said:
See, there it is in reverse.

And here is what I was trying to say:

In this forum there are only a few poasters who definitely have their favorite players to watch, obviously rooting for them to win, but people who also don't try to prove that their favorites are better because they like them.

I'm on the side-lines in terms of who is the best, who has had the hardest time, who deserves victories. I'm simply saying that all great players have easy matches and hard matches, easier draws and harder draws. Maybe a weak player can get lucky one time with an easy path, but you don't get to 17 or 14 without some hard slams too. You can't just look at the players across the net by name because any player can get hot for one match, and it only takes one to put a guy out.

Simon - who is going to get excited by Simon as one of the toughest players ever in a slam, a giant killer, the guy who is going to take the best of the best out. But he nearly took out Novak this year. No one is going to remember that 5 or 10 years from now.

Novak has 12 slams now, right? (I think it is 12 now.) I think he has a shot at catching Fed, and he has already set plenty of records of his own. I'll never be a fan, but you will also never catch me pi$$ing all over his accomplishments the way many do here. ;)
Click to expand...
I agree with everything you say Gary but thinking player A's competition was stronger than player B's isn't the same as saying that player B's was weak. That's the mistake too many people tend to make on this forum unfortunately.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I also agree with what abmk said there but he does tend to contradict himself where Wimbledon and Djokovic are concerned given he seems to believe that Novak's last two titles were undeserved due to not having to beat "peak" Federer to earn them. ;)
Click to expand...

He's hurt by the fact that Djokovic won both matches over his favorite, and thinks that he will right the wrong if somebody supports his view. The problem here is that he's not giving Federer an imaginary Wimbledon title that he "deserved", but taking one of Djokovic's titles he's won over "old and severely declined Federer", and giving it to "prime" Federer, who deserves it more. I think it's driving him crazy.
 
user said:
For once I agree. But, at the same time, his inability to do something against any of them post 2007 (he was just 25 than, remember Djokovic is 29 now) is one of the reasons I believe he didin't deserve more than he already has.
Click to expand...
No one deserves more than what he has. Life doesn't work that way.

Then again, Wimbledon 2009 makes me wonder. :D
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Lol, how was Murray worse in the '13 AO final than he was in the semis?
Click to expand...

he went away after the 2nd set -- due to blisters ..

it was obvious watching the matches .


"On Sunday Murray ran out of energy in a match that was influenced by an unruly feather, a blistered toe, and above all the scheduling that required him to play eight hours of the most gruelling tennis in the space of just over two days."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/te...-Novak-Djokovic-takes-third-title-in-row.html

google for more ...watch the match ...

if you are asking how he was worse in the final than he was in the SF, that just shows your ignorance ....
 
Gary Duane said:
Such a tragedy. ;)

Right now I'm just enjoying the ride. On one hand I want to see a young guy win, finally. As much as I enjoy watching Fed I also think he has had his time and we are ripe for a change.

For me that change also involved someone winning a slam other than either Novak or someone else 29 years old or older.

But it's also pretty exciting that someone could catch Budge, and I NEVER expected that to happen again.

I also enjoy people being wrong, so I get slight malicious glee at watching Novak destroy the lives of people who hate him!
Click to expand...
Sounds like you're on the verge of going over to the dark side yourself! ;)
 
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