Djokovic - can he become greater than Federer on two surfaces?

Can Djokovic become greater on 2/3 surfaces?

  • Yes, he has a very good chance

    Votes: 9 50.0%

  • No, he will have drastic decline next year so he won't make up for it

    Votes: 3 16.7%

  • Djokovic will never win FO, therefore this discussion is invalid

    Votes: 6 33.3%
  • Total voters
    18
  • Poll closed .
abmk said:
he went away after the 2nd set -- due to blisters ..

it was obvious watching the matches .


"On Sunday Murray ran out of energy in a match that was influenced by an unruly feather, a blistered toe, and above all the scheduling that required him to play eight hours of the most gruelling tennis in the space of just over two days."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/te...-Novak-Djokovic-takes-third-title-in-row.html

google for more ...watch the match ...
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Ah yes, I forgot about the blister and the feather. I guess that's another instance of where Novak got lucky that you can now add to your list. ;)
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Ah yes, I forgot about the blister and the feather. I guess that's another instance of where Novak got lucky that you can now add to your list. ;)
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and yet you go on about how djoko's competition is tougher when you don't remember things like that.

in any case, murray wouldn't necessarily have been the favorite since it was 1 all at that time ...lets just say it made things easier for Novak ..
 
Noleberic123 said:
Its hard to keep up with a player like Djokovic
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never said it was easy ...

the 13 final blisters had more to do with the 5-setter in the semi vs federer before IMO ..

as far as 15 is concerned, that was just murray being murray and djokovic being djokovic ... you just cannot implode like that ( losing 11 out of 12 games ) and expect to be called tough competition ...
 
abmk said:
never said it was easy ...

the 13 final blisters had more to do with the 5-setter in the semi vs federer before IMO ..

as far as 15 is concerned, that was just murray being murray and djokovic being djokovic ... you just cannot implode like that ( losing 11 out of 12 games ) and expect to be called tough competition ...
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Of course you can. He wouldnt have imploded against any other player
 
Djokovic2011 said:
It slipped my mind momentarily, hardly the crime of the century abmk.
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not the crime of the century ....

maybe you should've taken a breath or checked out what happened ( you know on the internet ) ....

Murray played terrific tennis in the semi vs federer ( IMO his best match at the AO ) ...

maybe there are more things like this that you should watch/research before going on and on about how djokovic has had it much tougher at the AO ? umm ....

federer has had it slightly easier in his wins, but in the years, he's lost when still playing well, he's had it tougher ...
 
abmk said:
he would have been if he had not mentally imploded in 15 or had blisters in 13 ...
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Lol, just because he isn't always pushing Djokovic to the brink like he did in the 2012 semis doesn't mean he isn't tough. Some of you guys believe a player(i.e Novak) should have to go to hell and back for his opponent to be considered a strong one but it doesn't always work like that. Try telling Djokovic that Murray wasn't tough in their 13/15 finals and he'd probably laugh in your face.
 
abmk said:
not the crime of the century ....

maybe you should've taken a breath or checked out what happened ( you know on the internet ) ....

Murray played terrific tennis in the semi vs federer ( IMO his best match at the AO ) ...

maybe there are more things like this that you should watch/research before going on and on about how djokovic has had it much tougher at the AO ? umm ....
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Murray shouldnt have even let Federer take 2 sets in that match. Its his own fault
 
And what gets me is how abmk thinks Murray should've been a tougher opponent for Djokovic in the 13/15 AO finals(as well as Wawrinka in the semis) but what about the ones Federer won so easily against Hewitt and Roddick? Why does he want Novak to go through hell all the time to win his majors but he never says a thing about the ones Roger won relatively comfortably? I just don't understand it. :confused:
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Lol, just because he isn't always pushing Djokovic to the brink like he did in the 2012 semis doesn't mean he isn't tough. Some of you guys believe a player(i.e Novak) should have to go to hell and back for his opponent to be considered a strong one but it doesn't always work like that. Try telling Djokovic that Murray wasn't tough in their 13/15 finals and he'd probably laugh in your face.
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nope, even a tough 4-setter will do ....you know , like federer-djokovic at RG 11, federer-roddick at wim 04, sampras-agassi at USO 01 , nadal-delpo in wim 11 etc ...

disappearing after 2 sets and a bit doesn't cut it ....

tell to djokovic that murray was tough in the 13/15 finals and he'll laugh saying :

for 13, oh the one who got blisters after 2 sets
for 15 , hah, the one whom I was able to fool by playing possum and then run away with 11 off 12 games

---

I'm not saying he was easy, but he was moderate/decent competition in those finals, not tough ..
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I agree with everything you say Gary but thinking player A's competition was stronger than player B's isn't the same as saying that player B's was weak. That's the mistake too many people tend to make on this forum unfortunately.
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If A and B both have the same # of wins but A's competition is really harder than B, A is the better player, I would think.

That's the basis of weak era arguments.

"Hewitt was a weak #1 because he had weaker competition..."

That's what people have been saying about Fed and Novak since I've been here, one way or the other, to prove that one has been screwed or favored by fortune. ;)
 
Djokovic2011 said:
And what gets me is how abmk thinks Murray should've been a tougher opponent for Djokovic in the 13/15 AO finals(as well as Wawrinka in the semis) but what about the ones Federer won so easily against Hewitt and Roddick? Why does he want Novak to go through hell all the time to win his majors but he never says a thing about the ones Roger won relatively comfortably? I just don't understand it. :confused:
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didn't I just give you the list of opponents who under-performed vs federer and those occasions ?

both federer and djokovic have had their share of relative easier draws.

problem is you are going on and on about things like murray being so tough when forgetting things like he had blisters ...
 
abmk said:
didn't I just give you the list of opponents who under-performed vs federer and those occasions ?

both federer and djokovic have had their share of relative easier draws.

problem is you are going on and on about things like murray being so tough when forgetting things like he had blisters ...
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Didnt Murray get blisters in the 4th when Djokovic was already 2-1 up?
 
abmk said:
nope, even a tough 4-setter will do ....you know , like federer-djokovic at RG 11, federer-roddick at wim 04, sampras-agassi at USO 01 , nadal-delpo in wim 11 etc ...

disappearing after 2 sets and a bit doesn't cut it ....

tell to djokovic that murray was tough in the 13/15 finals and he'll laugh saying :

for 13, oh the one who got blisters after 2 sets
for 15 , hah, the one whom I was able to fool by playing possum and then run away with 11 off 12 games

---

I'm not saying he was easy, but he was moderate/decent competition in those finals
Click to expand...
I seriously doubt Djokovic would say those things about the 13/15 finals. Not when they lasted so long and were so physically gruelling, irrespective of Murray's blister or Novak's "playing possum". And a 4 set match doesn't necessarily have to be like the ones you've mentioned to be considered tough abmk.
 
abmk said:
as far as 15 is concerned, that was just murray being murray and djokovic being djokovic ... you just cannot implode like that ( losing 11 out of 12 games ) and expect to be called tough competition...
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Yeah but one could argue the first two sets alone were enough to warrant Murray being called that.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I think I must've missed that post mate. I'll have to go back and try to find it.
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excuse me ? it was just today and you replied to that


abmk said:
wawrinka would have given djoko's form in that match
murray could have ..not sure ...

given their respective forms in the tournament ,

AO 04 - safin in the final -- tired from the draw ...played decent in the first 2 sets ..went away after that

USO 04 - hewitt in the final

USO 05 - nalby in the QF

AO 07 - roddick in the SF - he was actually playing well before the SF

AO 10 - murray in the final

USO 08 - murray in the final


......these are the ones on top of my head ....
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but you were just so focussed on djoko's AO 15 ...

again, your problem ^^
 
Noleberic123 said:
Didnt Murray get blisters in the 4th when Djokovic was already 2-1 up?
Click to expand...

nope ..right after the 2nd set breaker ..

"Djokovic won that tie-break 7-3 to level the match, and then came the big reveal, as Murray called the trainer to administer tape and padding to a huge blister on his right instep. Djokovic did not sit down at that changeover, but stood stretching out his hamstrings."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/te...-Novak-Djokovic-takes-third-title-in-row.html
 
abmk said:
excuse me ? it was just today and you replied to that





but you were just so focussed on djoko's AO 15 ...

again, your problem ^^
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Thanks. So what about Soderling in the '09 RG final? You don't consider him a slightly easy opponent? He didn't exactly light it up out there, did he?
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Thanks. So what about Soderling in the '09 RG final? You don't consider him a slightly easy opponent? He didn't exactly light it up out there, did he?
Click to expand...

no, he didn't. You can add him to that list as well ..

not exactly easy, but not tough either ..ok opponent ..
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I seriously doubt Djokovic would say those things about the 13/15 finals. Not when they lasted so long and were so physically gruelling, irrespective of Murray's blister or Novak's "playing possum". And a 4 set match doesn't necessarily have to be like the ones you've mentioned to be considered tough abmk.
Click to expand...

Djokovic2011 said:
Yeah but one could argue the first two sets alone were enough to warrant Murray being called that.
Click to expand...

nope, not enough ....not when you are AWOL for nearly 2 sets ...
 
abmk said:
nope, not enough ....not when you are AWOL for nearly 2 sets ...
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Agree to disagree on that mate. I'm not saying he was a super tough opponent in both finals like he was in 2012 or Wawrinka was a year later, that would be going too far, but there's no way I could describe his performances as being just medium/average level either.
 
Noleberic123 said:
Murray was horrible in the first set this year
Click to expand...
Yeah, but pretty decent for the next two. Tbh I don't really think Novak was anything spectacular in this year's AO final either - it was really one of those "play as well as I need to" performances from him that was enough to get the job done. I always felt there was another couple of gears he could've shifted to if Murray had started playing better.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Sounds like you're on the verge of going over to the dark side yourself! ;)
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Nah. I'm on the fair side. I loathe prejudice of all kinds, always have. I don't like seeing famous people trashed because little people have no lives of their own.

I think the last champion I disliked (male) was Lendl, mostly because of what seemed to be a very nasty disposition. But that's changed over the years, partially because I think he has been such an amazing mentor to Murray.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Yeah, but pretty decent for the next two. Tbh I don't really think Novak was anything spectacular in this year's AO final either - it was really one of those "play as well as I need to" performances from him that was enough to get the job done. I always felt there was another couple of gears he could've shifted to if Murray had started playing better.
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Murray had a very close call with Simon. Those things happen in slams, and the winners win because it doesn't happen in final rounds!
 
In terms of titles, yeah, sure. But I'll always see Fed as better than him on Grass and Fast Hard (if you wanna split it into Slow/Fast). Clay for me is a hard decision, as Novak has dealt with Rafa better than anyone on the dirt, mainly because of his ability to neutralize Rafa's forehand when rallying into his own backhand side. But that's really cherry picking, as there is more to it than just comparing themselves with how they dealt with Rafa. I would have said Fed a few years ago with some confidence, but now I dunno. Toss up IMO. If we are talking about "hypothetical" meetings between the pair, which I hate doing, so I don't even know why I'm typing this really.
 
Having won RG, I'd say Djokovic is above Fed on clay already and only slightly behind on hard. If he wins this year's USO, I'd say Fed is still slightly ahead due his more even distribution of 5 USOs and 4 AOs. But a 10th HC slam for Novak, whether it be another AO or USO, would seal it.
 
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