Djokovic dethrones Nadal after RG epic - ATPtour.com

[lordlosh]

With the serve getting better, I don't see why Djokovic would stop being competitive at 36 years old.

Even more considering that he is still the most fit 34-year-old player in history. Better than Nadal at 34 and better than Federer at 34.

Physically he is flying.

Tsitsipas at 22 years old is physically weaker than he at 34.

People were saying the same for Rafa last year. And you see what happen this year. One year is a big difference maker.
2017 Federer looks like he is flying and was in insane shape, and look supremely fit. His game was absolutely great. Come 2018 - garbage all over.
What i wanna say, which should be obvious is that at that advance age, you may get old overnight, no matter how much you care for your body and even if you do all the things right. It's just going to happen.
And a lot of times someone have insane season(which this could be for Djoko) there is a form drop. It could happen all over, you know.
Also Djokovic style is just not Federer, why it's better than Nadal, it's still a huge energy consuming one.
But everyone is different at the end of the day, and you could never know.
It's just my feeling. I'm not trashing on Djoko or anything i think this is clear.
As i said this is how i see the chances for Rafa, he pretty much have like USO, AO, FO, and at very best another USO, and it's over for him.
This is my thinking, and my opinion.
Djoko has chances in all the slams, and i see him maybe having chances till the end of 2022, and maybe AO 2023, and that's it.
This is my opinion. And have in mind this is just chances, they could not win anything at all. So much can happen in a nick of time.

 

[The_Order]

He made 55 unforced errors due to the pressure Djokovic imposed. Against any other player he wouldn't have made that many mistakes.

You know that, but as a troll, you keep posting ********.

Garbage. He's played much better versions of Djokovic at RG many other times and dismissed him in 4 sets in most of those encounters, making nowhere near the amount of errors.

What is it with Djokovic fans thinking he has beat peak versions of Fed and Rafa at their best major? Lol 33+ year old Fed at Wimbledon and 35+ yr old Rafa at RG.

He is an opportunist that thrives on beating Rafa and Fed when they've declined.

If that was 2008 version of Nadal on the other side Novak would've been struggling to win games.

 

[USO]

Do they chop his arms off if he doesn't get to 20? He gets what he gets. He has had a great career win or lose. He is a year younger than Nadal and years younger than Roger. He will have opportunities to get 20 if he is good enough. If he is not good enough to get to 20 life goes on. You act like he has to diffuse a bomb or something to save the city.

Well the way he screams when he’s about to lose you would think that yeah it’s a matter of life or death for him. And the way his fans talk about his greatness you would think it’s a lock that he would get to 50 slams. So because of those two things I have the right to comment on the fact that he’s still at 18 behind Fedal’s 20.

 

[Deleted member 771911]

Why not?

Djokovic is getting better and better at serve, which gives him easier points and has reached the age of 34 better than Federer.

Djokovic is getting better at serve or he isn’t facing any really good returners? He reached age of 34 better than Federer. But he also had less successful years when Federer had more successful ones at the same age so I am not sure what that tells 34 fact tells us.

 

[Djokinho]

People were saying the same for Rafa last year. And you see what happen this year. One year is a big difference maker.
2017 Federer looks like he is flying and was in insane shape, and look supremely fit. His game was absolutely great. Come 2018 - garbage all over.
What i wanna say, which should be obvious is that at that advance age, you may get old overnight, no matter how much you care for your body and even if you do all the things right. It's just going to happen.
And a lot of times someone have insane season(which this could be for Djoko) there is a form drop. It could happen all over, you know.
Also Djokovic style is just not Federer, why it's better than Nadal, it's still a huge energy consuming one.
But everyone is different at the end of the day, and you could never know.
It's just my feeling. I'm not trashing on Djoko or anything i think this is clear.
As i said this is how i see the chances for Rafa, he pretty much have like USO, AO, FO, and at very best another USO, and it's over for him.
This is my thinking, and my opinion.
Djoko has chances in all the slams, and i see him maybe having chances till the end of 2022, and maybe AO 2023, and that's it.
This is my opinion. And have in mind this is just chances, they could not win anything at all. So much can happen in a nick of time.

I didn't see anything happening with Nadal this year. He was fine, lost the third set in detail, Djokovic grew up in the fourth and won. For details now we would be contemplating Nadal's victory and projecting #21 for tomorrow.

Federer's bad years are not just a matter of physicality, he is the weakest mentally of the 3, losing a few games for being rushed and reckless.

See, he MAY level down, but it's not the most likely scenario. Not with what has been shown so far. He ran like a madman yesterday, and at the press conference he was completely relaxed, being able to play another 5 hours.

He may never win a Slam again for a variety of factors. But I think physically he still has 2-3 years of great level.

 

[Djokinho]

Garbage. He's played much better versions of Djokovic at RG many other times and dismissed him in 4 sets in most of those encounters, making nowhere near the amount of errors.

What is it with Djokovic fans thinking he has beat peak versions of Fed and Rafa at their best major? Lol 33+ year old Fed at Wimbledon and 35+ yr old Rafa at RG.

He is an opportunist that thrives on beating Rafa and Fed when they've declined.

If that was 2008 version of Nadal on the other side Novak would've been struggling to win games.

You're just crying friend. I suggest you take a handkerchief and dry your tears.

Nadal was good enough to make it 5-0, he was good enough to have set point in the third set. But now his fans want to say he was a lame dog.

If Nadal is far from his prime, Djokovic is too.

The age difference between the two will always be less than 1 year, look at this in 2008 or 2088.

 

[The_Order]

You're just crying friend. I suggest you take a handkerchief and dry your tears.

Nadal was good enough to make it 5-0, he was good enough to have set point in the third set. But now his fans want to say he was a lame dog.

If Nadal is far from his prime, Djokovic is too.

The age difference between the two will always be less than 1 year, look at this in 2008 or 2088.

Yeah don't let the facts get in the way of your story...

Nadal at RG is not comparable to your boy at AO. He's far greater that even when he's playing like crap at 35 years old, he still has his chances to win.

Aging isn't linear either you clown. Some people get affected by it more than others. But if you look at the way Rafa played 9 months ago vs this year there's a major difference. 17 UEs to 55 UEs LMFAO and you think it's the same? Hahahaha

Just another Novak jock that probably was born in 2011. Back to bed kiddo.

Reality will hit you re Novak's age too.

 

[Beckerserve]

....said the guy with the Nadal avatar

Do you dispute Nadal hit 55 UFEs?

 

[Djokinho]

Yeah don't let the facts get in the way of your story...

Nadal at RG is not comparable to your boy at AO. He's far greater that even when he's playing like crap at 35 years old, he still has his chances to win.

Aging isn't linear either you clown. Some people get affected by it more than others. But if you look at the way Rafa played 9 months ago vs this year there's a major difference. 17 UEs to 55 UEs LMFAO and you think it's the same? Hahahaha

Just another Novak jock that probably was born in 2011. Back to bed kiddo.

Reality will hit you re Novak's age too.

The age has already hit, he is 34 years old. You talk like you're 24. Deal better with losses, buddy. It's bad for your heart.

When Nadal made it 5-0: "The bull is unbeatable, it will be another spanking!"
When Djokovic wins: "Nadal is old"

Cry a river.

 

[Beckerserve]

You're just crying friend. I suggest you take a handkerchief and dry your tears.

Nadal was good enough to make it 5-0, he was good enough to have set point in the third set. But now his fans want to say he was a lame dog.

If Nadal is far from his prime, Djokovic is too.

The age difference between the two will always be less than 1 year, look at this in 2008 or 2088.

Bud if you think that was prime Nadal at 35 you are guilty of wishful thinking. Even Djokovic knows he beat Nadal shadow.

 

[Beckerserve]

Yeah don't let the facts get in the way of your story...

Nadal at RG is not comparable to your boy at AO. He's far greater that even when he's playing like crap at 35 years old, he still has his chances to win.

Aging isn't linear either you clown. Some people get affected by it more than others. But if you look at the way Rafa played 9 months ago vs this year there's a major difference. 17 UEs to 55 UEs LMFAO and you think it's the same? Hahahaha

Just another Novak jock that probably was born in 2011. Back to bed kiddo.

Reality will hit you re Novak's age too.

It beggars belief djokovic fans reaction and the media. I said Sinner woukd beat Nadal as i knew how washed up he is. He actually exceeded my expectations.

 

[Beckerserve]

48 winners is a lot for Rafa. Also keep in mind Novak had 52 UFE last year...

48 is less than 55. In Nadal career on clay i doubt he has been minus 7 w to UFE.

 

[Djokinho]

Bud if you think that was prime Nadal at 35 you are guilty of wishful thinking. Even Djokovic knows he beat Nadal shadow.

It wasn't prime Nadal... But it wasn't prime Djokovic either.

It was Nadal who beat Djokovic in the last games on clay, losing just one set. And it was also Nadal who beat Djokovic a few weeks ago in Rome. And it was Nadal who beat Djokovic in the final of RG 2020.

It was also Djokovic who had only won an ATP 250 in the clay season.

This is the reality.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Yeah don't let the facts get in the way of your story...

Nadal at RG is not comparable to your boy at AO. He's far greater that even when he's playing like crap at 35 years old, he still has his chances to win.

Aging isn't linear either you clown. Some people get affected by it more than others. But if you look at the way Rafa played 9 months ago vs this year there's a major difference. 17 UEs to 55 UEs LMFAO and you think it's the same? Hahahaha

Just another Novak jock that probably was born in 2011. Back to bed kiddo.

Reality will hit you re Novak's age too.

Out of interest, what version of Nadal at RG would Djokovic have to beat for you to give him credit for the win?

 

[Djokinho]

Nadal had only lost 1 set in the tournament. He had applied bagels in recent games.

Djokovic had suffered against Musetti and Berrettini.

Now Nadal fans want to say that he was the worst Nadal of all time against Djokovic at the peak.

Stop being silly.

 

[Djokinho]

Out of interest, what version of Nadal at RG would Djokovic have to beat for you to give him credit for the win?

None.

Whenever Djokovic wins, it will be a weak version. After all, Nadal is invincible.

 

[Beckerserve]

The Musetti performance showed anything but power decline. He started the match nervous and played tentative tennis so he did look vulnerable but came out there in the last 3 sets and blew the young man off the court. I mean just killed him with his power and shotmaking. It was that type of tennis that let me know he could put up a real challenge to Nadal and that's what he ended up doing. Where I thought Djokovic declined since 2016 was his weight of shot, heaviness because he used such great spin back then, but even in the SF he put more spin on the ball against Nadal, although not as great as he did 5 years ago. Still, that made a big difference in the end because he was able to push Nadal back often and used that short angled spin with his crosscourt forehand to perfection.

Careful here. That heavy spin v Nadal cross court while used to perfection was designed to exploit this washed up Nadal who has no lateral movement. He lunges for the ball now as his legs do not get him to the ball. Try that Tsitsipas he will get creamed.
Nadal is washed up which is why i said Sinner would beat him. Decline comes quickly at that level.
Djokovic is also declining. He has id say max 4 Majors left where he can win. Nadal has max 1 left. Federer 0.

 

[Beckerserve]

Nadal had only lost 1 set in the tournament. He had applied bagels in recent games.

Djokovic had suffered against Musetti and Berrettini.

Now Nadal fans want to say that he was the worst Nadal of all time against Djokovic at the peak.

Stop being silly.

55 UFEs. Find a Nadal match on any surface where he has hit 55 UFEs. I doubt there is one.

 

[-NN-]

Djokovic has not won the FO yet so the word “dethrone” is inappropriate. So far he was only able to “upset” the favorite Nadal but it will all be pointless if he loses to city pass tomorrow.

It's not pointless as at least Djokovic has blocked Nadal from potentially/probably winning the event and stretching the Slam lead. Of course, winning the final does double the damage.

 

[Beckerserve]

The age has already hit, he is 34 years old. You talk like you're 24. Deal better with losses, buddy. It's bad for your heart.

When Nadal made it 5-0: "The bull is unbeatable, it will be another spanking!"
When Djokovic wins: "Nadal is old"

Cry a river.

Cannot speak for others. When it was 5-1 i posted both players are garbage and worse than Tsitsipas v Zverev

 

[Winner]

It was a well deserved win in a great match. Nole defeated a good Nadal on Chatrier.

 

[Benben245]

Nadal couldn’t buy a first serve and he refused to slice the entire match. Very bizarre. I could see him looking at Moya in the stands like in the Australian final, the synergy between defense and offensive aggression to shorten points is not optimum. It is as though, sore wrist or not, Nadal’s shot selection adjustments to be more aggressive and shorten points do not always gel with his resiliency and ability to turn defense into offense that has been his modus operandi for years.

In the end, his serve cost him dearly. I wonder if perhaps had he focused on placement and created two 2nd serve opportunities for himself if that wouldn’t have faired better in the later sets. But the unwillingness to slice on the ground game to reset the point when your serve isn’t there is inexcusable.

 

[Beckerserve]

It's not pointless as at least Djokovic has blocked Nadal from potentially/probably winning the event and stretching the Slam lead. Of course, winning the final does double the damage.

Nadal was never winning the event. FO 2020 was always his last slam. It was his crowning glory.
Had he beat Djokovic he would have lost to Tsitsipas in 4 or 5 sets.
He barely beat him in Barcelona. His home court literally.

 

[Djokinho]

55 UFEs. Find a Nadal match on any surface where he has hit 55 UFEs. I doubt there is one.

It's in a loop saying this in all threads.

I fear for your mental health.

 

[Djokovic2011]

None.

Whenever Djokovic wins, it will be a weak version. After all, Nadal is invincible.

Exactly. So as far as Nadal fans are concerned there's no possible way Djokovic should ever be given credit unless he beats the absolute very best version of Nadal which we all know is pretty much impossible at RG which just makes their reasoning look very disingenuous, not to mention mean-spirited.

 

[SonicNirvana]

48 is less than 55. In Nadal career on clay i doubt he has been minus 7 w to UFE.

I mean it’s obvious it wasn’t his best game. He wouldn’t lose in 4 sets if it was. But to not give Novak any credit is stupid too.

 

[SonicNirvana]

Exactly. So as far as Nadal fans are concerned there's no possible way Djokovic should ever be given credit unless he beats the absolute very best version of Nadal which we all know is pretty much impossible at RG which just makes their reasoning look very disingenuous, not to mention mean-spirited.

This guy doesn’t speak for all of us.

 

[Beckerserve]

Nadal couldn’t buy a first serve and he refused to slice the entire match. Very bizarre. I could see him looking at Moya in the stands like in the Australian final, the synergy between defense and offensive aggression to shorten points is not optimum. It is as though, sore wrist or not, Nadal’s shot selection adjustments to be more aggressive and shorten points do not always gel with his resiliency and ability to turn defense into offense that has been his modus operandi for years.

In the end, his serve cost him dearly. I wonder if perhaps had he focused on placement and created two 2 serve opportunities for himself if that wouldn’t have faired better in the later sets

He has had serve issues for months. I said sinner would beat him largely due to his serve. Sinner broke him 6 times.
The writing was on the wall. I thought Nadal would beat Djokovic but i knew he would lose final. No way this Nadal could get by Djokovic then Tsitsipas. No way.

 

[Beckerserve]

I mean it’s obvious it wasn’t his best game. He wouldn’t lose in 4 sets if it was. But to not give Novak any credit is stupid too.

Hang on. Not saying Djokovic doesnt deserve credit. He does. But just has to be put in perspective.

 

[Djokinho]

In the final of RG 2020 Djokovic committed 53 UEs in just 183 points played.

In SF 2021 Nadal made 55 mistakes out of 266 points. If Nadal played poorly yesterday, I can't imagine what Djokovic did in 2020. LOL

 

[Beckerserve]

It's in a loop saying this in all threads.

I fear for your mental health.

55 UFEs is how it is lol. Just reality. Nadal was woeful.

 

[Beckerserve]

In the final of RG 2020 Djokovic committed 53 UEs in just 183 points played.

In SF 2021 Nadal made 55 mistakes out of 266 points. If Nadal played poorly yesterday, I can't imagine what Djokovic did in 2020. LOL

I said Djokovic was rubbish in 2020!!!!!! He choked massively. Nadal may have choked yesterday but given it is now a recurring theme evidence suggests he is past it.

 

[GabeT]

Not a big difference. Nadal has 20 slams already and is part of the coveted historic legendary Club 20. He doesn't need to win any more slams. Djokovic however does in order to join Fedal and if he doesn't win tomorrow he will still need 2.

Dude, do you really think at this point he’s not reaching 20? LOL

 

[GabeT]

If that was 2008 version of Nadal on the other side Novak would've been struggling to win games.

who the hell cares? What is it with all this “but if he had faced player X years ago he would have lost” nonsense? Is it part of the bargaining phase?

time to accept reality, Novak beat Nadal at the FO. No need to keep coming up with excuses

 

[USO]

Dude, do you really think at this point he’s not reaching 20? LOL

Yes Djokovic will NOT reach 20. I repeat he will NOT reach Club 20 like Fedal. Sorry.

 

[TheNachoMan]

Yes Djokovic will NOT reach 20. I repeat he will NOT reach Club 20 like Fedal. Sorry.

Lol. Whatever makes you feel better. Even if he loses on Sunday, he’s still reaching 20.

 

[GabeT]

Yes Djokovic will NOT reach 20. I repeat he will NOT reach Club 20 like Fedal. Sorry.

brought to you by the same genius that posted this:

If Djokovic somehow makes it past Medvedev, Thiem, Sonego, Rublev, Zverev, etc. then yeah Nadal will beat him in the final.

We don't have to argue because the result will probably be that Nadal wins both Rome and the FO.

 

[Kralingen]

By FAR the worst part of TTW is fans of players who lost basically slaughtering their level, making excuses, and then finishing with endless non sequitur references to the past. It showcases a deep insecurity about the player’s greatness and is incompatible with truly supporting your guy imo.

“He lost so this wasn’t peak ____”
“haha 2011 __ would routine them”

Sophistry. Take it on the chin. You are no fan of a player if you claimed to root for them 24 hours before but then the first thing you do is jump to how awful they played and discount their opponent.

 

[paolo2143]

Let's cut this nonsense out that Rafa played poorly, he did not!

He may not have been at his majestic best apart from first few games but he still played to an incredible high level for first 3 sets, Novak literally was playing out of his skin to be able to go toe to toe with him>

It was only in the 4th set when Novak quickly broke back that Rafa seemed to fade and i think that was because he knows he no longer has the stamina legs for a 5 set 5 hour plus marathon match that he would have had 5 or 6 years ago.

That is where Rafa has declined noticeably over last 12-15 months or so. He no longer can keep the same intense mental or physical focus that he used to.

 

[SonicNirvana]

who the hell cares? What is it with all this “but if he had faced player X years ago he would have lost” nonsense? Is it part of the bargaining phase?

time to accept reality, Novak beat Nadal at the FO. No need to keep coming up with excuses

2008 Novak took Rafa to a tiebreak lol and was by far his most challenging opponent.

 

[SonicNirvana]

Let's cut this nonsense out that Rafa played poorly, he did not!

He may not have been at his majestic best apart from first few games but he still played to an incredible high level for first 3 sets, Novak literally was playing out of his skin to be able to go toe to toe with him>

It was only in the 4th set when Novak quickly broke back that Rafa seemed to fade and i think that was because he knows he no longer has the stamina legs for a 5 set 5 hour plus marathon match that he would have had 5 or 6 years ago.

That is where Rafa has declined noticeably over last 12-15 months or so. He no longer can keep the same intense mental or physical focus that he used to.

I think the fact that it wasn’t the final is why he faded like that in the fourth.

 

[Beckerserve]

Dude, do you really think at this point he’s not reaching 20? LOL

Honestly its going to be tight for him. Win tomorrow and its all on Wimbledon. If he does not get a 6th W i dont think he wins a slam again. Hard courts now are going to be a nightmare for Big 3 now.
Win tomorrow and W he likely gets USO. Obviously that means CYGS and GOAT debate is ended once and for all.
Wimbledon the key event. Always thought somehow it would be as well.

 

[GabeT]

Honestly its going to be tight for him. Win tomorrow and its all on Wimbledon. If he does not get a 6th W i dont think he wins a slam again. Hard courts now are going to be a nightmare for Big 3 now.
Win tomorrow and W he likely gets USO. Obviously that means CYGS and GOAT debate is ended once and for all.
Wimbledon the key event. Always thought somehow it would be as well.

wimbledon? He’s going to be a contender for years. he is much better positioned than Nadal or Federer where at the same age

 

[Tony48]

Do you dispute Nadal hit 55 UFEs?

No.

Do you dispute that no one cares?

 

[Beckerserve]

Lol. Whatever makes you feel better. Even if he loses on Sunday, he’s still reaching 20.

Hmmm im not sure. Zverev Tsitsipas and medvedev have surprised me. They are now getting more consistent.
I honestly fancy Zverev at W. His serve is huge and he has good returns. Rallies are short so his FH wont need that extra shot or 2.

 

[SonicNirvana]

Hang on. Not saying Djokovic doesnt deserve credit. He does. But just has to be put in perspective.

I think what Novak was talking about was his play because he did play incredibly well and had to withstand that late third set barrage from Rafa. That’s why this win feels so big for him. I don’t think he’s saying that this is Rafa at his near best. Also I want to say that Rafas defense in that third set was incredible it’s just his offense was severely lacking.

 

[Beckerserve]

wimbledon? He’s going to be a contender for years. he is much better positioned than Nadal or Federer where at the same age

Look how Nadal has declined in 9 months. That is bound to happen to Djokovic. Meanwhile Next Gen get that bit better. Djokovic has 4 chances left to bag the 3 Majors he needs.

 

[Beckerserve]

I think what Novak was talking about was his play because he did play incredibly well and had to withstand that late third set barrage from Rafa. That’s why this win feels so big for him. I don’t think he’s saying that this is Rafa at his near best. Also I want to say that Rafas defense in that third set was incredible it’s just his offense was severely lacking.

Nadal BH and serve were awful. No way he would beat Tsitispas playing like that.

 

[RF-18]

who the hell cares? What is it with all this “but if he had faced player X years ago he would have lost” nonsense? Is it part of the bargaining phase?

time to accept reality, Novak beat Nadal at the FO. No need to keep coming up with excuses

It's time travel tennis, a stratosphere where we can predict time travel tennis with 100% accuracy

 

[Beckerserve]

No.

Do you dispute that no one cares?

Well yes given most people say that was a past it Nadal highlighting the UFEs.