You quoting yourself does not count as "most people."
Djokovic dethrones Nadal after RG epic - ATPtour.com
- Thread starter Hitman
- Start date
You quoting yourself does not count as "most people."
Beckerserve
Legend
Every newspaper article said Nadal showed again his legs are gone. 56 UFEs is just a fact. Cry all you want but djokovic left it too late to get his win. 2-7 is embarrassing. If you claim Djokovic is in Nadal league on clay?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/06/11/french-open-semifinals-novak-djokovic-rafael-nadal/
Washington Post: Novak Djokovic outlasts Rafael Nadal in a French Open classic, earns spot in finalGuardian: Novak Djokovic reaches French Open final with epic win over Rafael Nadal
Novak Djokovic beats Rafael Nadal in French Open semifinals with fans allowed to defy curfew
Paris is under an 11 p.m. curfew for COVID-19. A French Open match between two of the world's best was granted an exception and ended with fans.
www.usatoday.com
"Friday night's thrilling French Open men's semifinal match....."
Classic. Epic. Thrilling. Etc.
Let's see these newspapers of yours highlighting Nadal's legs.
Don't have them? I didn't think you did. But carry on.
SonicNirvana
Hall of Fame
Have to be honest I don’t like the hypothetical 2007 player vs their current self matchup talk. It’s just banter with no real way to see a result.
Beckerserve
Legend
The guardian is a left wing rag lol. So what they write is fake news anyway.https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/06/11/french-open-semifinals-novak-djokovic-rafael-nadal/Washington Post: Novak Djokovic outlasts Rafael Nadal in a French Open classic, earns spot in final
Guardian: Novak Djokovic reaches French Open final with epic win over Rafael Nadal
Novak Djokovic beats Rafael Nadal in French Open semifinals with fans allowed to defy curfew
Paris is under an 11 p.m. curfew for COVID-19. A French Open match between two of the world's best was granted an exception and ended with fans.www.usatoday.com
"Friday night's thrilling French Open men's semifinal match....."
Classic. Epic. Thrilling. Etc.
Let's see these newspapers of yours highlighting Nadal's legs.
Don't have them? I didn't think you did. But carry on.
Washington post another leftie rag.
Quality papers like Daily Telegraph made reference to Nadal legs having gone months ago ans yesterday they say validated those points.
55 UFEs. That is bottom line.
Daily Telegraph: Novak Djokovic dethrones Rafael Nadal in ‘absolutely ‘insane’ epic
From your favorite newspaper.
Anything else?
(and I see you’re one of those “fake news” people. I knew you were insane)
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Firstly, he deserves credit for the win. Last time I'm going to say that because I've already said it three times now.
Novak had his chances pre 2015 and couldn't do it. Winning one of those encounters would have been much more impressive and a far greater achievement. Don't pretend you don't know that.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
I've been on this site probably longer than you've been alive.
I've dealt with all the losses with realism. I'm not going to make up a story and say Novak totally forced Nadal into making 55 UEs when he hasn't been able to ever do that to Nadal in the past.
Quotes from other posters are not only irrelevant but they prove you've got nothing.
It's bad for your heart to not accept that Novak had to wait for Fed and Nadal to reach mid 30's to beat them at their best majors.
Lastly your stupid his "age has already hit, he's 34" comment - once again you need to be told that aging isn't linear and everyone ages differently. Let's see how Novak goes when he's 35 at the AO...
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Well when people are acting like he's dethroned Nadal and forced him into making all those errors it needs to be pointed out.
Nadal has been serving DFs and making an uncharacteristically large amount of UEs this whole tournament. Gasquet was the only opponents where this didn't ring true but Gasquet is way more washed up than Nadal is anyway.
v Popyrin 28W 23 UE - 5DF
v Norrie 35W 29UE - 2DF
v Sinner 31W 30UE - 7DF
v Schwartzman 35W 29UE - 3DF
v Djokovic 48W 55UE - 8DF (career high)
Tells you everything. Against lesser opponents he was able to only slightly reach a positive w/UE ratio. Against Novak it's a slightly negative W/UE ratio
Either way it's definitive proof that it's more centred around Nadal not playing well by his usual RG standards.
So don't tell me Novak forced those errors and expect me to take it seriously it's a load of bs being spouted by Djokovic fans because they are in denial.
Beckerserve
Legend
Simon Briggs goes on to say Nadal was compromised like in Australia.
Daily Telegraph: Novak Djokovic dethrones Rafael Nadal in ‘absolutely ‘insane’ epic
From your favorite newspaper.
Anything else?
(and I see you’re one of those “fake news” people. I knew you were insane)
Sorry to disappoint you. And you seem salty . Dont throw insults youbwould not dare say to me in person.
Djokinho
Rookie
Excuses, excuses and excuses.
When Nadal made it 5-0: "Wow, he will humiliate. Rafa is unbeatable in SF on PC"
When Djokovic won: "Wow, Nadal is a senile old man"
Let's get to the facts:
Djokovic beat Nadal 2x at Roland Garros and beat Federer in 3 Wimbledon finals.
Everything else is a crybaby's delirium. Have a good night.
No such statement is made in the article.
Any more lies?
Until you produce a newspaper highlighting the things you were talking about, please stop wasting my time. And some blurb in the middle of an article that is never mentioned again is not a “highlight”.
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aorgwimbus
Rookie
Yeah, Djokovic had to wait Nadal and Federer to reach mid 30s while he stayed at the age of 24 for the last 10 years and suffered no decline. Makes perfect sense...
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
What do you mean Djokovic had to wait for Nadal to reach mid 30's to beat him? Djokovic is in his mid 30's his damn self. Lol. Federer fans can use that excuse and back it up but you can't. Nadal and Djokovic are virtually the same age, and Nadal has only played 78 more matches than Djokovic which is nothing. Federer has played 362 more matches than Djokovic which is a lot. Djokovic and Nadal played a great match, and Djokovic got the best of him this time. End of story.
Beckerserve
Legend
Yes it is. Read it again closely.
Beckerserve
Legend
Bud 55 UFEs is referenced everywhere. As is Nadals legs gone and linking to Australia. Stop being salty. Nadal is 35. He is past it. Djokovic got a year left. Be happy and move on lol. Dont be so woke.
Dude be serious. Aside from that final set vs. Schwartzman, the Nadal level in the SF would have destroyed and humiliated all of these players. He played better yesterday than in any of his FO matches. Next you’re going to use some excuse like “he lost to Rublev at MC!” when prior clay performance has never mattered for Nadal.
The analytical lengths you’re willing to go to just so you can call your GOAT an awful player this year is embarrassing. How in God’s name does Novak Djokovic himself have a higher opinion of Rafa right now than you???
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Never mentioned the Rublev loss.
Always advocated that there's no such thing as a GOAT.
What is it with you guys needing to make things up just to try and make it look like you've got a point?
How does Novak have a higher opinion? Lol as if he's going to take the shine off his win...
And I am being serious, Nadal was crap at RG this year by his standards.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Read the last paragraph I made. Then read it again and again and again then maybe your brain can absorb reality.
You said it was highlighted in a newspaper article. I showed you what was actually highlighted in the article: that the match was considered an epic match that will go down as a classic.
Until you can produce an article highlighting the things you have alleged, stop responding to me
By his lofty standards sure. He’s declined, and I think everyone recognizes that. But you have spent the majority of the past 2 hours researching in depth to prove to people how awful your favorite player of all time is. Do you not understand the malignant issue there? Why are you doing this? What kind of person would spend their Saturday night slaughtering their so called favorite player ever?
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
It's not in depth research. The stats for every match is readily available with a few clicks on the RG site.
I don't think everyone recognises your first 2 sentences, especially when I'm being told that it was Novak who forced Nadal to making 55 UEs...
I accept that Novak won. He played better and was more clutch. But I still firmly believe that it was Nadal's gifts as a result of his decline that was the main factor, not Djokovic's play.
JustMy2Cents
Hall of Fame
When a guy has won 13 titles and his record is more than 100 wins, he sits on a permanent throne. He's ALWAYS the KING.
When??/If some one matches and supercedes that, they can sit on a throne. Winning one match doesn't equate to dethroning!
When??/If some one matches and supercedes that, they can sit on a throne. Winning one match doesn't equate to dethroning!
jarko111
Hall of Fame
Honestly, last years USO had some of the most amazing matches. Novak was part of one of the most shocking matches at that event.
But from the 4th round onward .. the mens event was something else. How quick we forget.
But there is this thing where you think the closest, most recent epic is the best. For instance, the film that was voted best of the last decade was Parasite on so many sites including GoldDerby. Was it really? Or was it because it had just won best pic?
I will say this. Last nights match was incredible. I am not a fan of the Big 3.. very openly. I kinda get bored with the same 3 people winning everything. But! I think I see Novak in a completely different light. There is something about reliability that feels great coming out of this past winter/spring.
I think I might be a Novak stan if he wins tomorrow.
But from the 4th round onward .. the mens event was something else. How quick we forget.
But there is this thing where you think the closest, most recent epic is the best. For instance, the film that was voted best of the last decade was Parasite on so many sites including GoldDerby. Was it really? Or was it because it had just won best pic?
I will say this. Last nights match was incredible. I am not a fan of the Big 3.. very openly. I kinda get bored with the same 3 people winning everything. But! I think I see Novak in a completely different light. There is something about reliability that feels great coming out of this past winter/spring.
I think I might be a Novak stan if he wins tomorrow.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
It wasn't a great match in terms of quality.
Last time you'll be told aging isn't linear. Quit pretending it is. Nadal has had an extensive injury list that is catching up with him, Novak hasn't had any such thing.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
About 95% of the people who watched would disagree with you. It's all everybody has been talking about since it happened. Most of them saying the 3rd set was the best they have ever seen and these are pro players and legends of the game.
Ok, he has had injuries and so have Djokovic and Federer. Fact is, age has nothing to do with it so I don't see the point in even bringing it up. They are way too close in age for it to make a difference.
JustMy2Cents
Hall of Fame
Rafa has more mileage; he has been winning since he was 18 and the intensity takes a toll. age is not just chronological, Djoko has been effectively on the scene only from 2010 in terms of intensity and success.
This is behind the justified criticism Djoko is feasting on aged rivals, definitely in the case of Rafa who was a teen prodigy. another fact is his injuries from the initial stages due to his genetic foot issue.
Djoko does not become a king by winning one match against aged Rafa
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
That's the thing; he doesn't have that much more mileage. He's played 365 BO5 matches. Djokovic has played 390. So when's it's broken down, the difference in them is not much at all as far as mileage. This is because (a) Djokovic has went deeper in Slams on average than Nadal and (2) Nadal has skipped more Slams than Djokovic.
Claiming Djokovic has feasted on aged Nadal holds zero weight. Yea Nadal was a prodigy at 19 but Djokovic himself is the youngest player in history make the SF at all 4 Slams at 20 and won his 1st Slam at 20, so he's not far behind.
No one said he was king. I just said the age excuse has no merit.
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aorgwimbus
Rookie
Or maybe you should just stop being a pathetic sore loser coming with stupid excuses.
Only very few players in history would have beaten Nadal in a RG SF. This is not a washed up veteran losing at 2R to younger all time great. Djokovic “declined” as much as Nadal did. Nadal was a massive favourite before that match and majority of Nadal fans believed Djokovic would be straight setted. I bet you were one of them and now you are shamelessly complaining about how Nadal sucked and implying Djokovic has not suffered any significant decline.
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SonicNirvana
Hall of Fame
Their 2013 match at RG they both had a high amount of UFE (78-47). This match was just payback.
JustMy2Cents
Hall of Fame
You are talking numbers. Yes, Rafa has played much fewer and has had more success. That's another story.
I'm referring to the intensity from a young age. Age is never chronological, it's biological.
Djoko was on the success scene only from 2010
You know how many errors Fed made in 2008 Wimbledon Final? 80..! Does that mean Nadal defeated an awful version of Federer? Nadal committed so many errors because Djokovic outperformed him off the ground. Nadal simply has got no ways to win points on extended rallies. Djokovic made him so hopeless that he had no option left other than go for risky shots to win points - that resulted into errors. This is classic way of winning match on clay - Nadal was master of it. But Djokovic gave him taste of his own medicine.
NiCo515
Rookie
I don't visit this place much but I have to say how mindblowingly astounding some of these comments are. Djokovic fans in denial? Of what exactly? That he just won a match against one of his main rivals? I honestly think that some of you people have an addiction and would be well served by taking a break from these message boards. Especially you and that Backserve troll.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
It sounds like you're searching for excuses to me.
3 set matches played in BO3 - Djokovic - 218, Nadal - 216
5 set matches played - Djokovic - 44, Nadal - 35
4 set matches played - Djokovic - 100, Nadal - 82
Matches played against the top 10 - Djokovic - 321, Nadal - 276
Matches played against the top 5 - Djokovic - 174, Nadal - 149
You still want to talk about intensity?
JustMy2Cents
Hall of Fame
Where was Djoko's intensity and success before 2011? When Rafa just a year older was way more successful
T
TheNachoMan
Guest
This is a good video on it. Rafa was still in his prime in 2011. He was beating literally everyone except Novak
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Djokovic became dominant in 2011 which is a big difference. His success and him being amongst the top 3 in the world started in 2007, something you are not admitting. Yea Rafa had a big lead in Slam count before 2011, but it's not like Djokovic wasn't making it deep in these tournaments back then. Before 2011, he had already been to 3 Slam finals and 9 SFs. By now, any mileage that Nadal may have accrued before Djokovic became a dominant force has balanced out, therefore, saying Nadal is in some kind of disadvantage does not hold any weight.
JustMy2Cents
Hall of Fame
Point is Rafa battled peak Fed and had remarkable success. He had 9 slams to Djoko's 1 slam at one stage, though he's just 11 months older.
Djoko has been feasting on a battered Rafa and non peak Fed for the most part.
Anyway, thanks for the banter. I'm out!
T
TheNachoMan
Guest
lol..
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Nadal started playing tennis 2 years earlier than Djokovic and accrued more matches early on than he did, but Djokovic in the last 10 years has completely dominated and closed that gap considerably, considering that he has played more matches that went the distance in BO5 and BO3, and more matches against top players. Battered Rafa has reached 5 less Slam SFs than Djokovic and 1 less Slam final. So much for that.
He ain't losing.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
@Beckerserve - you asked for this post
"" Nobody can answer the Nadal 56 UFEs point. Just a wall of silence lol.""
, yet you spend all of page 2 of this thread ignoring it. Looking forward to your answer, thanks
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Mileage and age are not the same for everyone. Everyone ages differently. I.e. You can't go purely by the numbers and say Rafa shouldn't be at a disadvantage.
I would imagine everyone om the forum can agree that Djoko is closer to his physical peak/prime than Rafa/Roger and most likely has the highest number of quality seasons left in him. You don't?
Tennis_Hands
Banned
The quality of that match was average, and it is touted for "great", because of its importance and the unexpected result. The first and the last sets were a bit of a washout, the third set was a WTA chokefest and with a huge UE toll, it is a bit astonishing that it is so highly praised. 92 UE in a 4 setter would have been torn to pieces by objective analysts. A couple of highlight reel exchanges and shots do not compensate for its overall level.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
There's a left wing version of tennis, and a politically correct version to be found in DT? How odd!
Let's be real man. It was far far from that with Nadal. He was totally spend at the 4th. As far as the third, Djokovic idiotic decision, especially on the net, gave Nadal chance to stay in that set for that long. If you actually watch the match closely, Djokovic should have won this in a straight. He pretty much gifted Nadal the first, and make the 3rd competitive, where it shouldn't been.
With Federer is his idiotic decision, and that guy he never learn. He make the same mistakes over and over. And his tactical game plan is garbage. While 2003-2007 wasn't matter much, because of his level, but nowdays it's garbage all the way.
In 2019 he lost to IW final top Thiem in a match he had won, mainly due to his tactical decision. HE was absolutely playing to Thiem strengths, and giving him slice waiting for mistake, just to get owned.
Same with Del Potro previous year, at the same stage in the same tournament. Same f***** mistakes. He wasted match points, likes its nothing, because of his idiotic decision. He was playing Del Potro forehand all the way, where he should have do what Nadal/Djokovic do play on Del Potro backhand, that is first - not a safe shot, and second he give you a short balls, that you could easily finish. But no we are master tactician, and we will play to his strengths his forehand, which is also the most powerful in the tour in term of speed. Lets give him a few more slice back, he may get a mistake. That thinking of Federer eat his head so so many times. As well as rushing points, where he obviously is not in his best mental state.
I don't think tho that lost to Djokovic has because he was so call "mentally" weaker. It wasn't anything mental in that lost. It was his idiotic decision in the most important moment. You should not rush points like that, esp. when you waste the 1st matchball, and esp. against guy like Djokovic, who is known for his comeback, and when he already have done it before to you.
I have always stated that Federer is a bit of stubborn. He refuses for wait too long to use the newest technology, he refuse to use the statistics(and all things related), for him this is b.c., he also refuse to see a problem with his UE. And he is surrounded by f***** yes-man. He always have the weakest team by far, compare to Nadal and Djokovic. And this is a huge thing in any sport actually.
Anyway i digress, this wasn't about Federer.
The quality of that match was average, and it is touted for "great", because of its importance and the unexpected result. The first and the last sets were a bit of a washout, the third set was a WTA chokefest and with a huge UE toll, it is a bit astonishing that it is so highly praised. 92 UE in a 4 setter would have been torn to pieces by objective analysts. A couple of highlight reel exchanges and shots do not compensate for its overall level.
Beckerserve
Legend
It is a detailed response but not quite right as Nadal was nor being that aggressive. He was hitting most balls in the net which means even if they go over they fall short.
It obviously is frustrating for Nole fans that he beat a washed up Nadal but the facts speak for themselves. Djokovic was nothing special either. 37 UFEs he hit is a lot for 4 sets.
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