Djokovic does his big 4 brothers, Nadal and Murray a little favor at the Olympics.

Hitman

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Djokovic's win ensures

That Nadal remains the youngest winner of the Olympic Gold Medal at 22, and will remain the youngest winner of the career golden slam at 24. Alcaraz cannot complete this feat until he is 25 now.

Protects Murray's OIympic singles record by ensure that Alcaraz doesn't already have a singles gold medal at age 21...because he would have a very good chance to get another later on.

Djokovic himself becomes the opposite of Nadal on spectrum, by being the old winner of the singles gold and the oldest winner of the career golden slam.
 
Murray did say his last wish is for Nole to win gold.
But Nadal probably just hoped to win against Novak and equalize the H2H and then try to reach the final and pass the torch to Alcaraz.
 
He also completed the Career Super Slam after being 35. Wimbledon (2022) is now longest ago.

However, I wouldn't say Murray is totally safe with 2 Gold Medals, because Djokovic himself already targets LA 2028.
 
ChrisRF said:
He also completed the Career Super Slam after being 35. Wimbledon (2022) is now longest ago.

However, I wouldn't say Murray is totally safe with 2 Gold Medals, because Djokovic himself already targets LA 2028.
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At 41? If anyone can do it it’s Novak but still 41 and competing at a professional level let alone world top 3 is beyond imaginable.
 
ChrisRF said:
He also completed the Career Super Slam after being 35. Wimbledon (2022) is now longest ago.

However, I wouldn't say Murray is totally safe with 2 Gold Medals, because Djokovic himself already targets LA 2028.
Click to expand...

It took Djokovic five attempts to win a single OGSM.

Doing it at 37 as the underdog is an incredible feat in itself. However, achieving this at 41 against a (presumably) stronger field and ATGs in their prime would be near impossible. Zverev has a better chance, tbh.

Agree with the OP, Djokovic has likely protected Murray’s record for a few more years.
 
Last edited:
bro said:
Murray did say his last wish is for Nole to win gold.
But Nadal probably just hoped to win against Novak and equalize the H2H and then try to reach the final and pass the torch to Alcaraz.
Click to expand...

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Hitman said:
Djokovic's win ensures

That Nadal remains the youngest winner of the Olympic Gold Medal at 22, and will remain the youngest winner of the career golden slam at 24. Alcaraz cannot complete this feat until he is 25 now.

Protects Murray's OIympic singles record by ensure that Alcaraz doesn't already have a singles gold medal at age 21...because he would have a very good chance to get another later on.

Djokovic himself becomes the opposite of Nadal on spectrum, by being the old winner of the singles gold and the oldest winner of the career golden slam.
Click to expand...
Nadal wanted Alcaraz to win for Spain.
However, i would think on a personal level, Djokovic winning is a blessing for him and will stave off retirement. Djokovic destroyed everyone bar Alcaraz and Rafa isnt retiring if he feels his game is only below a few guys. I said it at the time when he lost, the only blessing was losing to Djokovic and that now is even more the case as Djokovic actually won.
Murray wanted Djokovic to win, he openly said so. Id think every player from Djokovics era wanted him to win, players from the same era always back the guy still going from their own era, you see it across all sports.
 
messiahrobins said:
Nadal wanted Alcaraz to win for Spain.
However, i would think on a personal level, Djokovic winning is a blessing for him and will stave off retirement. Djokovic destroyed everyone bar Alcaraz and Rafa isnt retiring if he feels his game is only below a few guys. I said it at the time when he lost, the only blessing was losing to Djokovic and that now is even more the case as Djokovic actually won.
Murray wanted Djokovic to win, he openly said so. Id think every player from Djokovics era wanted him to win, players from the same era always back the guy still going from their own era, you see it across all sports.
Click to expand...

You've been spot on regarding Nadal this year. I think you got everything right about it.

So how do you see it now for the rest of the season for him? Lets just say the next three months?
 
Nappa said:
I feel like Nadal being the youngest in winning the Career Golden Slam is a record that will be very hard to break in the future.
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Nadal probably had the highest peak level the game ever has seen. 2008-2010 (shame he was injured half of 2009) is the greatest level of tennis across all surfaces i have seen with Alcaraz a close 2nd. Nadal definitely moved the sport on in those 3 years. Alcaraz if he wins the USO this season though i think would surpass Nadal in this metric though.
 
joekapa said:
Unfortunately I don't think Nadal is thankful of this.
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Nadal should’ve won an atp year end final.
He did not complete the golden slam. I consider that a huge miss on his resume bc the courts were slowed down during his era and he benefited from heavier balls and slower court speeds on grass and hard courts.

Only indoor surfaces weren’t slower. And he struggled.
 
messiahrobins said:
Nadal wanted Alcaraz to win for Spain.
However, i would think on a personal level, Djokovic winning is a blessing for him and will stave off retirement. Djokovic destroyed everyone bar Alcaraz and Rafa isnt retiring if he feels his game is only below a few guys. I said it at the time when he lost, the only blessing was losing to Djokovic and that now is even more the case as Djokovic actually won.
Murray wanted Djokovic to win, he openly said so. Id think every player from Djokovics era wanted him to win, players from the same era always back the guy still going from their own era, you see it across all sports.
Click to expand...
Nadal is from the same era. They are 11 months difference in age.
 
ChrisJR3264 said:
Nadal should’ve won an atp year end final.
He did not complete the golden slam. I consider that a huge miss on his resume bc the courts were slowed down during his era and he benefited from heavier balls and slower court speeds on grass and hard courts.

Only indoor surfaces weren’t slower. And he struggled.
Click to expand...

As good as Nadal was, he was vulnerable indoors. He has his chances in 2010 and 2013 though, but ran into better indoor players, Federer and Djokovic in those finals.
 
messiahrobins said:
Nadal probably had the highest peak level the game ever has seen. 2008-2010 (shame he was injured half of 2009) is the greatest level of tennis across all surfaces i have seen with Alcaraz a close 2nd. Nadal definitely moved the sport on in those 3 years. Alcaraz if he wins the USO this season though i think would surpass Nadal in this metric though.
Click to expand...
Nope.
 
Hitman said:
You've been spot on regarding Nadal this year. I think you got everything right about it.

So how do you see it now for the rest of the season for him? Lets just say the next three months?
Click to expand...
Well obviously i dont know how he feels physically, and he did have a thigh issue in Paris which i am not sure if is related to his hip surgery he had. So i think much depends on how he is physically.
If the thigh strain was just a strain from over playing in Bstaad and heals up within a couple of weeks i would think he will play the USO s he loves it there especially the night session IF he feels good on hard courts in practice. Funnily enough this year he looked way better on hard courts than clay level wise when we saw him back in January and i do wonder if nowadays if hard courts suit him more than clay as he cannot grind like he used to. If he is playing well in practice i think he would give the USO a crack, no reason not to.
I dont think we will see him post the USO, like Novak i am not sure he has the appetite outside the slams now and while the lesser events during the slam season are important to get match play in, post uSO i think for Rafa and Novak it is really hard to get the juices flowing now.
Rafa, and Novak ultimately love tennis, love the competition, love the vibe being around the guys. People forget this when saying about retirement. Djokovic said it really well about motivation yesterday when he said that while he now has achieved all there is to win, its not just about winning, he loves the comeptition the training the hard work. Rafa is exactly the same, im sure Federer felt the same as did Murray. The latter two were forced into retirement by their bodies.
So for Rafa i think it all depends on his body. If he is relatively pain free i think he will play USO and i think then take the post USO off, and come back in January and give next season one last go.
Tennis is like a drug to these legends. Its not easy to let it go. Nothing beats playing. Certainly not commentating!!!!
 
Hitman said:
As good as Nadal was, he was vulnerable indoors. He has his chances in 2010 and 2013 though, but ran into better indoor players, Federer and Djokovic in those finals.
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Yes, any comments i make about Rafa's level at his peak excludes indoors. Comapritevly he was a very average indoor player...as is Alcaraz to date strangely.
 
joekapa said:
Nadal is from the same era. They are 11 months difference in age.
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Yes i know...had Alcaraz not been Spanish Nadal would have rooted for Novak but obviously he is Team Spain so clearly would have rooted for Alcaraz just like every spanish athlete would have been!
 
messiahrobins said:
Well obviously i dont know how he feels physically, and he did have a thigh issue in Paris which i am not sure if is related to his hip surgery he had. So i think much depends on how he is physically.
If the thigh strain was just a strain from over playing in Bstaad and heals up within a couple of weeks i would think he will play the USO s he loves it there especially the night session IF he feels good on hard courts in practice. Funnily enough this year he looked way better on hard courts than clay level wise when we saw him back in January and i do wonder if nowadays if hard courts suit him more than clay as he cannot grind like he used to. If he is playing well in practice i think he would give the USO a crack, no reason not to.
I dont think we will see him post the USO, like Novak i am not sure he has the appetite outside the slams now and while the lesser events during the slam season are important to get match play in, post uSO i think for Rafa and Novak it is really hard to get the juices flowing now.
Rafa, and Novak ultimately love tennis, love the competition, love the vibe being around the guys. People forget this when saying about retirement. Djokovic said it really well about motivation yesterday when he said that while he now has achieved all there is to win, its not just about winning, he loves the comeptition the training the hard work. Rafa is exactly the same, im sure Federer felt the same as did Murray. The latter two were forced into retirement by their bodies.
So for Rafa i think it all depends on his body. If he is relatively pain free i think he will play USO and i think then take the post USO off, and come back in January and give next season one last go.
Tennis is like a drug to these legends. Its not easy to let it go. Nothing beats playing. Certainly not commentating!!!!
Click to expand...

Cool. You think though he can just rock up into the USO cold, without HC match play?

What was realistically be his expectations in such a situation, we are assuming he is fit.

So what do you think he can do in NYC?
 
Hitman said:
As good as Nadal was, he was vulnerable indoors. He has his chances in 2010 and 2013 though, but ran into better indoor players, Federer and Djokovic in those finals.
Click to expand...
I wonder if they never slowed down the courts or implemented heavier balls - does he win all those grand slam titles on hard courts?
 
messiahrobins said:
Nadal won FO W OG back t back, then in 2010 FO W USO back to back. Never been done before or since.
Click to expand...
Djokovic has more 3 slam years, plus he has the "Nole Slam"..... 4 in a row.
No matter how you see it, Nadal's supposed "peak" doesn't come close.
That being said. They are of the same generation and are born 11 months apart. Nadal simply was outplayed by Djokovic, and never "grew" as a player, like Djokovic did. Djokovic figured him out, and Nadal simply did not have the answer.
 
Hitman said:
Cool. You think though he can just rock up into the USO cold, without HC match play?

What was realistically be his expectations in such a situation, we are assuming he is fit.

So what do you think he can do in NYC?
Click to expand...
He wont be a factor at the USO at all. Depends on his draw obviously but id think at best 3rd round he could make. I just think he would enjoy the night sessions there as it might be his last chance.
 
joekapa said:
Djokovic has more 3 slam years, plus he has the "Nole Slam"..... 4 in a row.
No matter how you see it, Nadal's supposed "peak" doesn't come close.
That being said. They are of the same generation and are born 11 months apart. Nadal simply was outplayed by Djokovic, and never "grew" as a player, like Djokovic did. Djokovic figured him out, and Nadal simply did not have the answer.
Click to expand...
That doesnt really make sense as Nadal was ahead of Djokovic slam race wise their entire careers until 2023.
 
More beneficial circumstances for their archives. It's funny to think of the sliding doors with this stuff. Separate player wins thing, possibly ensuring record of another player. Djoker's knee plays up and MuryGOAT at higher risk.
 
joekapa said:
Djokovic has more 3 slam years, plus he has the "Nole Slam"..... 4 in a row.
No matter how you see it, Nadal's supposed "peak" doesn't come close.
That being said. They are of the same generation and are born 11 months apart. Nadal simply was outplayed by Djokovic, and never "grew" as a player, like Djokovic did. Djokovic figured him out, and Nadal simply did not have the answer.
Click to expand...
I guess, from 2010-2013 their rivalry flourished on all surfaces but after 2014 Djokovic felt like a vastly superior player to Nadal on all surfaces other than Clay.
 
Hitman said:
Does he even win Wimbledon on 90s grass courts?

The question to all of this is, we will never truly know.
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I feel like you can’t even classify nadal as winning the golden slam.

Not enough credit is given to winners of the NITTO atp finals champs. You have to play 5 matches in 6 days against top 8 players immediately. No margin for error.
 
Wow that Rafa record came very close to going down! 2 TBs saved it. I think it will stay in our lifetimes.
 
Hitman said:
Djokovic's win ensures

That Nadal remains the youngest winner of the Olympic Gold Medal at 22, and will remain the youngest winner of the career golden slam at 24. Alcaraz cannot complete this feat until he is 25 now.

Protects Murray's OIympic singles record by ensure that Alcaraz doesn't already have a singles gold medal at age 21...because he would have a very good chance to get another later on.

Djokovic himself becomes the opposite of Nadal on spectrum, by being the old winner of the singles gold and the oldest winner of the career golden slam.
Click to expand...
Djokovic’s win did a lot more for his generation than merely protecting records.

By taking out the best current young player at the peak of his physical prime, when he himself is more than a decade past his own, he ensured that Alcaraz can never ever be compared seriously to the best players of the Djokodal generation. And he ensured that all of Alcaraz’s future achievements will only enhance Djokovic’s legacy.

Federer had a golden opportunity to do the same for himself and his generation in 2019. But failed.
 
travlerajm said:
Djokovic’s win did a lot more for his generation than merely protecting records.

By taking out the best current young player at the peak of his physical prime, when he himself is more than a decade past his own, he ensured that Alcaraz can never ever be compared seriously to the best players of the Djokodal generation. And he ensured that all of Alcaraz’s future achievements will only enhance Djokovic’s legacy.

Federer had a golden opportunity to do the same for himself and his generation in 2019. But failed.
Click to expand...

There will always be more that will come out of this as the years go by, no question.
 
messiahrobins said:
Nadal probably had the highest peak level the game ever has seen. 2008-2010 (shame he was injured half of 2009) is the greatest level of tennis across all surfaces i have seen with Alcaraz a close 2nd. Nadal definitely moved the sport on in those 3 years. Alcaraz if he wins the USO this season though i think would surpass Nadal in this metric though.
Click to expand...
The only way to determine if Nadal had a better 2011 than 2010 is calculating his winning %'s but removing Djokovic from both years.
 
SonnyT said:
The only way to determine if Nadal had a better 2011 than 2010 is calculating his winning %'s but removing Djokovic from both years.
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Nadal was better in 2010 than 2011. After he got the injury at AO 20111 v Ferrer Rafa was never again the same player. 2008-2010 was peak Nadal like 2004-2006 was peak Federer, Federer began to decline from 2007 very slightly as did Nadal from 2011.
Most players, in fact all players have a peak no longer than about 3-4 years. Lendl 1985-1988, McEnroe 1981-1984, Sampras 1993-1997, Courier 1991-1993, Djokovic 2011-2015.
Alcaraz yet to hit is peak but his i suspect will be 2025-2029.
 
messiahrobins said:
Nadal wanted Alcaraz to win for Spain.
However, i would think on a personal level, Djokovic winning is a blessing for him and will stave off retirement. Djokovic destroyed everyone bar Alcaraz and Rafa isnt retiring if he feels his game is only below a few guys. I said it at the time when he lost, the only blessing was losing to Djokovic and that now is even more the case as Djokovic actually won.
Murray wanted Djokovic to win, he openly said so. Id think every player from Djokovics era wanted him to win, players from the same era always back the guy still going from their own era, you see it across all sports.
Click to expand...
This version of Nadal, without Djokovic in his path, how far could he have gone?
 
Last edited:
bro said:
Murray did say his last wish is for Nole to win gold.
But Nadal probably just hoped to win against Novak and equalize the H2H and then try to reach the final and pass the torch to Alcaraz.
Click to expand...
I can't get inside Rafa's mind, but tend to doubt that he wanted to do anything other than try to win each day's match.
...guessing that fans know and put more stock into their H2H records than they do.
 
Tano said:
This version of Nadal without Djokovic in his path, how far could he have gone?
Click to expand...
Would have lost to Tsitsipas. His reaction time on return has gone and he cannot chase balls down now so the Tsitsipas Serve and FH combo would have killed him and Tsitsipas would break Rafa at least a couple of times.
 
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