Djokovic-Federer take I heard at the US Open

nachiket nolefam

Hall of Fame
TIL serving isn't a skill

It's not like he's 6'9" and you can write it off as only being good because he's tall. To have a serve that great at 6'1" is the definition of skill and worth every bit as much as Novak's backhand off the ground.
Yeah so say that he is better in his serve department. Everything else they are equal and Novak is better at defense. Nothing says Federer is better.
 

onyxrose81

Hall of Fame
I've heard something like that from one of my peers before. The veteran is basically saying Federer is an entertainer while Djokovic is a winner. Most people would pay more to watch Federer but since tennis is a sport, winning is worth way more than entertaining thus Djokovic is regarded as the greater player. Djokovic is lucky tennis isn't performed in a circus or a Disneyland.
If tennis was solely about entertainment then Monfils is the moral Grand Slam champion of the world.
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
Yeah so say that he is better in his serve department. Everything else they are equal and Novak is better at defense. Nothing says Federer is better.
Fed has the superior forehand, Serve, slice, volleys, half-volleys, overheads and drop shots. That's why he had the "more skilled" reputation, his variety of skills, particularly with touch plays.

Novak has backhands, return and movement.
 

Kralingen

Hall of Fame
The reason this quote stuck with me is that it immediately annoyed both the Federer fan and the Djokovic fan, for different reasons. Same thing happening here.

Delicious.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah, right.... So lucky that he lucked out 20 slams 36 masters 5 WTFs....
Exactly. A few of the slams could have gone either way and one of the WTFs was a WO by Federer in the final. One of the Wimbledon SFs was played indoors on one of the sunniest days in Wimbledon history.
 
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MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
The reason this quote stuck with me is that it immediately annoyed both the Federer fan and the Djokovic fan, for different reasons. Same thing happening here.

Delicious.
It wouldn't annoy me as a Fed fan. It's only annoying because it's a reminder of something I think is true.

I do honestly believe Fed is the slightly better player. But Novak is the massively superior mental player. In an individual sport mentality is just as important as skill. It is what it is
 

Permitlady

Rookie
The same discussion five years ago but now Djokovic has the high ground and we have to think of new metrics other than winning? Stop thinking emotionally and using arbitrary parameters that coincide with a player you like already.
 

Noleberic123

G.O.A.T.
Fed has the superior forehand, Serve, slice, volleys, half-volleys, overheads and drop shots. That's why he had the "more skilled" reputation, his variety of skills, particularly with touch plays.

Novak has backhands, return and movement.
What about depth of shot? Shot tolerence? Defense?
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
Yeah so say that he is better in his serve department. Everything else they are equal and Novak is better at defense. Nothing says Federer is better.
Fed's got a better forehand (perhaps even way better which is saying something because Novak's forehand is an ATG shot), a significantly better slice, a vastly better net game, and better offense (because Novak is a more defensively-minded player).

Novak's advantages are the return (and even the first serve return is actually closer than you'd think), the backhand by a significant distance, movement, and last but certainly not least mental strength.
 

Noleberic123

G.O.A.T.
Fed's got a better forehand (perhaps even way better), a significantly better slice, a vastly better net game, and better offense (because Novak is a more defensively-minded player).

Novak's advantages are the return (and even the first serve return is actually closer than you'd think), the backhand by a significant distance, movement, and last but certainly not least mental strength.
And he is from Serbia
 
I see jokebots have now joined dullards in painting Federer as a glorified servebot who's otherwise inferior. Disgusting barbarians who wouldn't know the summit if it stared them in the face.
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
What about depth of shot? Shot tolerence? Defense?
I'm not breaking down the skills into sub categories. Depth of shot and shot tolerance is factored in when giving Novak the edge in backhands for example. I didn't give the edge to him there because I think he hits winners like Wawrinka.

But on the other hand I don't think his depth & stability is enough to outweigh the offensive potency of Fed's FH when comparing those 2 shots.

And defense is basically the same as movement.
 

Turing

Rookie
If the implication is Federer is more skilled and well-rounded while Djokovic better at finding ways to win despite his limitations/lesser skill, then I agree. I don't see the problem.

Edit: The story is made up, isn't it? Sounds like obvious bait, and it looks like it worked.
 
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Noleberic123

G.O.A.T.
I'm not breaking down the skills into sub categories. Depth of shot and shot tolerance is factored in when giving Novak the edge in backhands for example. I didn't give the edge to him there because I think he hits winners like Wawrinka.

But on the other hand I don't think his depth & stability is enough to outweigh the offensive potency of Fed's FH when comparing those 2 shots.
Djokovic's FH is much better than Federer's BH. You forgot to mention that. Djokovic's FH is close to top 10 all time.
 
D

Deleted member 771911

Guest
Where was Djokovic's mental strength in 2009-2010? 2013? 2017?
Does it come and go?
He does show mental strength at times, but he has also had some real lows.
 

Kralingen

Hall of Fame
FWIW I think Federer is clearly the more talented and complete all-court player. One look at their net games and ventures into the forecourt should tell even the most biased fan that.

This guy was an old time fan so has seen Mac/Pete/Edberg etc. win the USO live. Djokovic could never win a single Slam playing that style, you could argue Federer maybe could.

However Djokovic has freakish athleticism, stamina, and shot tolerance which in this day and age correlates especially well to winning. He doesn't need to play the beautiful game to win. The more I think about it, the more I agree with the quote tbh, even though I argued against it yesterday.
 

Sephiroth

Hall of Fame
I think 40-15 Wimb 19 has heightened Federer's match point chokes a lot more these days (esp vs Djokovic) and Djovak winning so many matches from the brink of death from 2018 Wimb - present has set this tone
 
Really it's so deeply pathetic as to be soul-wrenching. Here you see the best / one of the best there can be in certain departments yet turn your back to it, wilfully indecent. As I write this, yet another dumb comment appears. That's what I call a triumph for evil, where the truth and goodness suffers to self-aggrandizing lesserness.
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic's FH is much better than Federer's BH. You forgot to mention that. Djokovic's FH is close to top 10 all time.
I'm just going down the list and giving one of them a check in each category. This is just some casual forum debate, I'm not going to give weighted scores to everything and then average them out to see who is on top.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
I see jokebots have now joined dullards in painting Federer as a glorified servebot who's otherwise inferior. Disgusting barbarians who wouldn't know the summit if it stared them in the face.
Really it's so deeply pathetic as to be soul-wrenching. Here you see the best / one of the best there can be in certain departments yet turn your back to it, wilfully indecent. As I write this, yet another dumb comment appears. That's what I call a triumph for evil, where the truth and goodness suffers to self-aggrandizing lesserness.
It isn't easy to compete for badness with Hamilton fans but you're on track, congrats.
why so serious?
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
Fed has the greater repertoire of skills but most of modern tennis played off the ground these days, so Novak's able to beat Roger in most baseline exchanges and win matches that way. This isn't rocket science.
 

Kralingen

Hall of Fame
It isn't easy to compete for badness with Hamilton fans but you're on track, congrats.
lol last night Lin Manuel Miranda was in Ashe and came on the screen to raucous applause. For good measure he did one of his 'quirky' facial expressions after Brooksby won a point.

awful stuff.

Btw do I have someone on ignore? I can't tell who you were replying to
 
Fed has the greater repertoire of skills but most of modern tennis played off the ground these days, so Novak's able to beat Roger in most baseline exchanges and win matches that way. This isn't rocket science.
They should have played peak to peak to settle that. Nadal only had a small advantage in the (in)famous five-set combo, and that's peak Nadal against slightly-less-than-peak Federer. No grounds to believe Djokovic could do better considering Nadal was the cryptonite.
 

nachiket nolefam

Hall of Fame
Fed's got a better forehand (perhaps even way better which is saying something because Novak's forehand is an ATG shot), a significantly better slice, a vastly better net game, and better offense (because Novak is a more defensively-minded player).

Novak's advantages are the return (and even the first serve return is actually closer than you'd think), the backhand by a significant distance, movement, and last but certainly not least mental strength.
Mental strength is not a separate thing. If you can do everything well then people do find you hardest to beat. The Djokovic or Nadal mental strength basically comes from their ability to attack and defend at the same time. Haven't seen such combination in anyone else.
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
They should have played peak to peak to settle that. Nadal only had a small advantage in the (in)famous five-set combo, and that's peak Nadal against slightly-less-than-peak Federer. No grounds to believe Djokovic could do better considering Nadal was the cryptonite.
Roger was still a headcase even at his peak so for all we know he could outplay Novak and still lose just like he did in some of their 2010s matches.
 
lol last night Lin Manuel Miranda was in Ashe and came on the screen to raucous applause. For good measure he did one of his 'quirky' facial expressions after Brooksby won a point.

awful stuff.

Btw do I have someone on ignore? I can't tell who you were replying to
Throwing comments into open space, the wise can see who I must be referring to.

Don't know who this Lin chap is. In case of confusion, I meant Hamilton the racing driver. Exactly the most annoying kind of person and his praise singers too.
 

terribleIVAN

Hall of Fame
Fed's got a better forehand (perhaps even way better which is saying something because Novak's forehand is an ATG shot), a significantly better slice, a vastly better net game, and better offense (because Novak is a more defensively-minded player).
Why can't people see the obvious ?

Roger is all that....for about 1.5 sets.

Then it's shanksville.

He doesn't have the physique to sustain his own high risk game over the distance, and if you stay with him, he will crumble. See Canas in 2007. See young Rafa.
 
Roger was still a headcase even at his peak so for all we know he could outplay Novak and still lose just like he did in some of their 2010s matches.
Could he? Djokovic had a significant stat advantage in the '11 USO semi though of course Federer should have served it out but he wasn't the one leading play stats so this is a separate case. The first time Federer actually led some stats and lost in a slam match between them happened in 2015 USO when he was damn 34...
 
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