Djokovic has an endurance problem!

USO

USO

Hall of Fame
DRII said:
you did see the actual match, right?

30 plus points at times, a very grinding type match for the most part.

the scoreline doesn't really tell you much.
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Ever since the comeback from the long break in Cincinnati I could see that he’s not the same, he struggled in many matches such as against RBA and Raonic. These 2 simply choked. People were hyping him because he was winning but I could see that his level was overrated and that it was only a matter of time that he would be exposed.

He was grumpy, he was making mistakes, doing tons of dropshots, he was older, he had a lot of pressure, younger players were improving, etc. It’s a combination of many things both physically and mentally. He will still be able to win some titles here and there but winning slams is wishful thinking.

:cool:
 
Firstservingman

Firstservingman

Talk Tennis Guru
clayqueen said:
Did Rafa have COVID in 2015? Rafa said he had confidence problems he never said anything about his endurance.
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I actually heard they found covid-19 in the sewer system of a spanish city early last year, like around January 2019.

There's quite possibly more to this **** than everyone thinks. Rafa didn't have it though lol
 
DSH

DSH

Legend
USO said:
Ever since the comeback from the long break in Cincinnati I could see that he’s not the same, he struggled in many matches such as against RBA and Raonic. These 2 simply choked. People were hyping him because he was winning but I could see that his level was overrated and that it was only a matter of time that he would be exposed.

He was grumpy, he was making mistakes, doing tons of dropshots, he was older, he had a lot of pressure, younger players were improving, etc. It’s a combination of many things both physically and mentally. He will still be able to win some titles here and there but winning slams is wishful thinking.

:cool:
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Also, Tsitsipas' injury in the fifth set at RG against Joker cost him the loss and not the level of his opponent that day.
:D
 
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GabeT

GabeT

Legend
DRII said:
Like i said,

i don't think Djokovic has been affected by lack of endurance until after his event he held in Serbia.

so you comparing the whole year vs Nadal's 2015 is not apt. anyway, the lack of endurance is not going to affect each the same. i also said that Nadal's great mental strength is more depended upon his stamina than it is for Djokovic.
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Since that event he won about 90% of all matches played, won 2 masters (including one on clay) and reached the final of the the FO. if you just look at points won since the Covid incident Novak is the player that has won the most.

So what would a Novak with endurance look like? Win every single match he plays?
 
USO

USO

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GabeT said:
Since that event he won about 90% of all matches played, won 2 masters (including one on clay) and reached the final of the the FO. if you just look at points won since the Covid incident Novak is the player that has won the most.

So what would a Novak with endurance look like? Win every single match he plays?
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It all went downhill ever since that bagel Nadal gave him. It completely broke him down and I don't think he'll ever recover. :giggle:
 
S

Sabratha

Banned
DRII said:
Ever since Covid Cup in Serbia.

Doesn't always manifest itself very noticeably, but it is present.

That's what plagued Nadal in 2015, which is why it was such a horrendous year for him.

Stamina is a very important part of both's game and provides them their mental edge, more so with Nadal, against other players. Without it, they will give up on matches they are not winning easily.

Djokovic betta recovery by next year!
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Lawl.
 
J

JustMy2Cents

Rookie

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www.atptour.com

when a reporter noted that it seemed like he was breathing heavily at times during the match, he acknowledged that he went through a spell of 15 to 20 minutes during the match where he didn’t feel well.


“Well, I was, to be honest [not feeling well] a little bit, especially towards the end of the first set, beginning of the second,” said Djokovic, 33. “I kind of regrouped and felt better… towards the end of the match. But, yeah, just unfortunate 15, 20 minutes for me that resulted with seven games in a row lost… I made some unforced errors. I dropped the level of [my] game and fitness just in general. I struggled to… find the right rhythm for 15 minutes or so…You know, against a player like Medvedev, the match is done.”
Djokovic also credited his opponent for a match well played.
 
DRII

DRII

G.O.A.T.
GabeT said:
Since that event he won about 90% of all matches played, won 2 masters (including one on clay) and reached the final of the the FO. if you just look at points won since the Covid incident Novak is the player that has won the most.

So what would a Novak with endurance look like? Win every single match he plays?
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It's how he lost, not just that he lost. Even some of his wins haven't been the same.

Again imo, something is ailing him and causing a lack of stamina.
 
GabeT

GabeT

Legend
DRII said:
It's how he lost, not just that he lost. Even some of his wins haven't been the same.

Again imo, something is ailing him and causing a lack of stamina.
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You may be right that he’s got something. But if with whatever ails him he won so much are a]we saying he’d win everything without it?
i think that if he had really some debilitating aftermath from Covid he would have never won all he did. He doesn’t win two masters and reach FO finals if he is permanently affected in terms of breathing or endurance.

I think the answer is simpler, he’s getting older and he‘s already won a lot. So he’s more vulnerable due to age and when behind he will fight it less than at his peak.
 
H

Hefty-Lefty

New User
Novak is defeinitly suffering from endurance problems and its related to his COVID exposure. His colors are not normal, and he gasps for air way too early in his matches.
 
terribleIVAN

terribleIVAN

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JustMy2Cents said:

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www.atptour.com

when a reporter noted that it seemed like he was breathing heavily at times during the match, he acknowledged that he went through a spell of 15 to 20 minutes during the match where he didn’t feel well.


“Well, I was, to be honest [not feeling well] a little bit, especially towards the end of the first set, beginning of the second,” said Djokovic, 33. “I kind of regrouped and felt better… towards the end of the match. But, yeah, just unfortunate 15, 20 minutes for me that resulted with seven games in a row lost… I made some unforced errors. I dropped the level of [my] game and fitness just in general. I struggled to… find the right rhythm for 15 minutes or so…You know, against a player like Medvedev, the match is done.”
Djokovic also credited his opponent for a match well played.
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Even in his very prime, against players able to grind him non stop, with great stamina, he 's been known to struggle when he's not left room to breathe.

This is of course why Rafa stopped him at the French.

But look at the W 2013 final lost to Andy: each time he managed to break him, Novak immediately dropped serve himself because he relaxed as he had given so much effort to break.
 
H

Hefty-Lefty

New User
GabeT said:
You may be right that he’s got something. But if with whatever ails him he won so much are a]we saying he’d win everything without it?
i think that if he had really some debilitating aftermath from Covid he would have never won all he did. He doesn’t win two masters and reach FO finals if he is permanently affected in terms of breathing or endurance.

I think the answer is simpler, he’s getting older and he‘s already won a lot. So he’s more vulnerable due to age and when behind he will fight it less than at his peak.
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70% Novak is better than 95% of all tennis pros in the world. That's why he still can win masters and other ATP tournamnets. 100% Novak is almost unbeatable except on Clay.
 
terribleIVAN

terribleIVAN

Hall of Fame
Rosstour said:
I ******' said he would never be the same after COVID, and a lot of people didn't think that was possible.

Since COVID, he has no Slams and looks like he's aged 3 years since AO.
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Have you seen his semi vs Tsitsipas at RG ??

Didn't look aged at all to me !
 
R

Robert F

Professional
Yeah, it could be physical. But really he cut through this season pretty easily.

I think it is less physical and more mental. I think at times he gets disinterested in tennis. When things aren't going his way, he starts to look flat and play C- tennis. Unfortunately for guys outside the top 20, his C- tennis will beat most of them.
Seems when he in not dominating a player he think he should, instead of getting fired up he gets frustrated and justs pulls back a little.

With Med playing well, Djoker wasn't feeling on top and instead of rising to the occasion he took a back seat.
 
Cortana

Cortana

Hall of Fame
I think you are on to something. He looked exhausted after only a couple of games yesterday. His endurance is nowhere near 2011-2015 level.
 
Harry_Wild

Harry_Wild

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic still has an “ace” to play to get him over any trouble; the injury routine! He use it maybe 2-3 times this year and won all his matches after being behind in either the 1 or 2nd set!
 
clayqueen

clayqueen

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DRII said:
No, that's my conjecture as to why Nadal had confidence problems in 2015. His lost stamina which resulted in a collapse of his legendary mental toughness. Why he lost endurance that year, I don't know...
I stated the same in 2015 on this forum.
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But Rafa said he had no injuries or fitness problems in 2015 he just lost confidence in his game and in his body because of frequent injuries.
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
Firstservingman said:
I actually heard they found covid-19 in the sewer system of a spanish city early last year, like around January 2019.

There's quite possibly more to this **** than everyone thinks. Rafa didn't have it though lol
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www.cnbc.com

Coronavirus emerged in Italy earlier than thought, study shows

The new coronavirus was circulating in Italy since September 2019, a study by the National Cancer Institute of the Italian city of Milan shows.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com

The Chinese have suppressed the information about that thing for a long time.

:cool:
 
Enceladus

Enceladus

Hall of Fame
Rosstour said:
I ******' said he would never be the same after COVID, and a lot of people didn't think that was possible.

Since COVID, he has no Slams and looks like he's aged 3 years since AO.
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Djoker didn't win USO due to disqualification and at RG ran into RG GOAT.
Since undergoing COVID, Nole has won Cincinnati (New York) and Rome. To claim, on the basis of several few losses, that COVID affected him is premature misrepresentation.
 
Born_to_slice

Born_to_slice

Hall of Fame
ollinger said:
The medical evidence becomes clearer and clearer -- covid19 can cause fibrotic changes in the lungs, and many with these changes, including people in their 20s and 30s, show no sign of improvement thus far. I don't know if that's Djokovic's problem, but it's certainly a possibility.
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Evidence is clear that sars-cov-2 fails Koch's postulates miserably.

As for Djokovic, he has won 2 Masters titles and played a slam final since contracting this "deadly disease" with "long term effects" and you have no shame saying that it's a possibility that being diagnosed positive on meaningless PCR test had long term effects on Novak.
 
B

blablavla

Legend
TennisManiac said:
It may not be an endurance problem as a result of having Covid. Did anyone ever consider the fact that he's getting older? I mean come on.... not everyone is going to be able to play through their 30's like Federer did. Federer is a very rare exception to the normal life of a tennis player. Nothing makes me think that Novak will have the strength, stamina and shear will to win for as long as Federer has. Novak's time is just about over with now. And his fans are going to have to accept the fact that he will never reach 20 slams like Federer and Nadal.
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age is just a number.
you Novak hater!

* sarcasm alert
 
Born_to_slice

Born_to_slice

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This is from Djokovic-Medvedev 2019 AO. Of course everyone called it faking then but it was exhausting match for Novak. Medvedev style doesn't suit him unless he's very aggressive.
 
L

La Pavoni

New User
In UK sport it has been fashionable to talk about "marginal gains" (from cycling initially) for the last decade.
I see the end of Novak's incredible dominance to be almost the opposite (and who knows if we are actually there). He will get half a step slower at some point and then there will be a slight mental diminishing for himself, an increase in doubt in his own abilities. This will be coupled with an accompanying rise in other players confidence against him.
Lots of his greatest victories (and those that have created his legend) have come down to a few points at the right time.

Who knows if this is the time where the aggregation of marginal losses is enough to swing things the way of the next gen? I'm sure that there have been other false dawns already.
 
aldeayeah

aldeayeah

Legend
People are reading too much into the Vienna semi-tank and yesterday's brainless play, I think.

Djokovic is still a slight favorite to win WTF, IMO.

It doesn't matter if he's not up to his best standards, as long as nobody else is up there.
 
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F

fox

Semi-Pro
aldeayeah said:
People are reading too much into the Vienna semi-tank and yesterday's brainless play, I think.

Djokovic is still a slight favorite to win WTF, IMO.

It doesn't matter if he's not up to his best standards, as long as nobody else is up there.
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Yes, we know he lost on purpose to mislead other players :D Also the line judge disqualified him yesterday. And he has covid. And bad day. We all know it.
 
aldeayeah

aldeayeah

Legend
Nah, the loss was legit. But it's only one match, he's not out yet, and he knew he wouldn't be out even if he lost.

Let's see how he performs when his back is truly to the wall.

Same situation as Nadal really, but Djokovic has been better here historically (even though he hasn't won it in a while)
 
T

thrust

Hall of Fame
TennisManiac said:
It may not be an endurance problem as a result of having Covid. Did anyone ever consider the fact that he's getting older? I mean come on.... not everyone is going to be able to play through their 30's like Federer did. Federer is a very rare exception to the normal life of a tennis player. Nothing makes me think that Novak will have the strength, stamina and shear will to win for as long as Federer has. Novak's time is just about over with now. And his fans are going to have to accept the fact that he will never reach 20 slams like Federer and Nadal.
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So it seems! It could be a combination of Covid and age. He certainly had the stamina in the AO final, but since the Covid shut down, Novak seems to be a different player or certainly not as consistent as he used to be.
 
DRII

DRII

G.O.A.T.
La Pavoni said:
In UK sport it has been fashionable to talk about "marginal gains" (from cycling initially) for the last decade.
I see the end of Novak's incredible dominance to be almost the opposite (and who knows if we are actually there). He will get half a step slower at some point and then there will be a slight mental diminishing for himself, an increase in doubt in his own abilities. This will be coupled with an accompanying rise in other players confidence against him.
Lots of his greatest victories (and those that have created his legend) have come down to a few points at the right time.

Who knows if this is the time where the aggregation of marginal losses is enough to swing things the way of the next gen? I'm sure that there have been other false dawns already.
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Good post.

Nadal had to adjust to his loss of foot speed several times already, first around 2013 and then again post 2015. He did this by upping his aggression and improving his net game.

Federer also made adjustments to mitigate his aging around 2017 with the bigger racquet and more aggression.

We'll see if Djokovic can do the same. He already came back from his first major injury that caused an extensive break in 2018. So it's quite possible he will adjust if this 'thing' he's going through is something more permanent. Only thing is Djokovic's game has less of an 'x factor' than Nadal's or Federer's. His game is just a sublime excellence that is very simple.

So we will see...
 
RF-18

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Lol no. He wasn't up for the task yesterday, simple as that. No reason to look into stuff. Move on to the next match and use it as a learning experience.
 
ollinger

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
So let's see, Djokovic a week ago suggests slam matches should be best of 3 instead of best of 5, and people don't think he's trying to deal with a stamina problem??
 
Thriller

Thriller

Semi-Pro
'Long covid': Grigor Dimitrov on still suffering from coronavirus symptoms

Speaking to BBC Sport, former world number three tennis player Grigor Dimitrov described the "very unpredictable" symptoms he suffered , and how the virus - contracted in June - "lingered for a while". The 29-year-old Bulgarian said he perhaps "shouldn't have gone to the States" for the US Open in September, where he went out in the second round, because although he had tested negative, he still felt fatigued.

Reflecting on his return to playing in August, Dimitrov says: "I almost feel I shouldn't have gone to the States but I had to test myself, I had to know where my body was at.
"Every time I wanted to see it was maybe a couple of steps forward but maybe one step backwards." Speaking from the European Open in Antwerp at the end of October, he said: "I feel way, way better - I don't even take naps any more or anything like that. But there are some things here and there that you're like 'Oh man, that's not the same'. It's fine, I get it but who knows how this thing is going to go. All I hope is that I don't get it again."
 
Born_to_slice

Born_to_slice

Hall of Fame
Firstservingman said:
I actually heard they found covid-19 in the sewer system of a spanish city early last year, like around January 2019.

There's quite possibly more to this **** than everyone thinks. Rafa didn't have it though lol
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They actually never found and isolated the whole virus sequence. Short sequences that PCR tests are looking for are the perfect match with a bunch of human and microbial genetic sequences, so it's not surprising that test would be positive for any sewage samples. It also was positive for plants like Paw-Paw fruit, papaya and a goat sample when they were sent for testing by Tanzanian president under false human names. So there's much more to it than anyone thinks.
 
terribleIVAN

terribleIVAN

Hall of Fame
What a difference between the lethargic Novak of the first set and the one after it.

Still wasn't enough to pull the win.

Had he put the pressure on Thiem from the first point of the match, he could have won this: Thiem was starting to break down on his BH side.
 
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