Djokovic has beaten peak versions of Federer, Nadal, Alcaraz and Sinner. Do you agree?

[Gastino]

Djokovic is the most complete player ever. Sinner has a long way ahead to become the most complete player. First of all he must solve his fitness/health problems, since he never won a match over 3h50m

I never said he wasn't I was just outlining how Sinner has the least technical flaws at an early age...Djokovic became elite in some aspects only later on in his career. You just have comprehension problems because it's not a wikipedia stat sheet.

Also I asked you 5 times at least on this forum if you watch tennis , you never answer so let me answer it for you.
Outside of a Novak match you probably haven't watched a single tennis in your life....I even doubt you watch Novak matches sometimes when I see you post. You probably spend more time looking at ultimatetennis pages and wiki stats ...If you're gonna be a data guy ..please have a look at tennisabstract at least to have a basic comprehension of performance indicating stats rather than listing wikipedia pages and sharing player opinions out of context.

 

[junkieballer]

I never said he wasn't I was just outlining how Sinner has the least technical flaws at an early age...Djokovic became elite in some aspects only later on in his career. You just have comprehension problems because it's not a wikipedia stat sheet.

Also I asked you 5 times at least on this forum if you watch tennis , you never answer so let me answer it for you.
Outside of a Novak match you probably haven't watched a single tennis in your life....I even doubt you watch Novak matches sometimes when I see you post. You probably spend more time looking at ultimatetennis pages and wiki stats ...If you're gonna be a data guy ..please have a look at tennisabstract at least to have a basic comprehension of performance indicating stats rather than listing wikipedia pages and sharing player opinions out of context.

You look hurt

 

[USO2010]

I never said he wasn't I was just outlining how Sinner has the least technical flaws at an early age...Djokovic became elite in some aspects only later on in his career. You just have comprehension problems because it's not a wikipedia stat sheet.

Also I asked you 5 times at least on this forum if you watch tennis , you never answer so let me answer it for you.
Outside of a Novak match you probably haven't watched a single tennis in your life....I even doubt you watch Novak matches sometimes when I see you post. You probably spend more time looking at ultimatetennis pages and wiki stats ...If you're gonna be a data guy ..please have a look at tennisabstract at least to have a basic comprehension of performance indicating stats rather than listing wikipedia pages and sharing player opinions out of context.

 

[TTMR]

No, in 2007 he also won Wimbledon beating Nadal, US Open beating Djokovic, the YEC beating Nadal, Hamburg beating Nadal, Cincinnati, Basel, reached the finals of Roland Garros (lost to Nadal), MonteCarlo (lost to Nadal), Canada Open (lost to Djokovic), Madrid (lost to peak Nalbandian). He had a 3-2 and 3-1 h2h with prime-ish Nadal and Djokovic.

2007 was his best season considering the competition. It was the breakout year of Djokovic, and Nadal had improved, as Federer himself said (check the post match interview of the Wimbledon final).

Djokovic ended Federer's peak in the AO08 semifinal, in straight sets.

AO08 SF and AO26 are two of the greatest wins in history, by the same player, 18 years apart.

Neither Nadal nor Djokovic were prime let alone peak in ought 7. Nadal was close to grass peak but not quite there yet.

 

[Third Serve]

Neither Nadal nor Djokovic were prime let alone peak in ought 7. Nadal was close to grass peak but not quite there yet.

Nadal was certainly in his prime on both clay and grass. Still wasn’t quite there on HCs yet outside of his tremendous Indian Wells performance, but on natural surfaces he was already there. The only reason people say he wasn’t in his prime is because he lost the fifth set of the Wimbledon final.

In fact, if the fifth set of the 2008 final had gone 7-9 instead of 9-7, I bet you many would still chalk 2008 down as a weak year.

 

[USO2010]

More like…

Ned defeated his prime rivals on all slam surfaces.

Fred defeated prime Djokovic everywhere. Hell Fed was exiting prime and still beat prime Djokovic at the natural slams twice. Fed had a little trouble with Nadal outside grass.

Djokovic could only rack up wins against mono/physically hampered Fed, and then there's obviously the 2011 USO. Beat Nadal at the slams for 1-yr stretch, then went back to losing slams left and right to Nadal (even Wawrinka and Murray 5 times).

 

[GabeT]

More like…

Ned defeated his prime rivals on all slam surfaces.

Fred defeated Djokovic everywhere. Had a little trouble with Nadal outside grass.

Djokovic couldn’t beat peak Fred anywhere at the slams (in fact old Fed defeated prime Djokovic). Beat Nadal at the slams for 1-yr stretch, then went back to losing slams left and right to Nadal (even Wawrinka and Murray 5 times)

You’ve really adapted to the place, haven’t you?

 

[TTMR]

Nadal was certainly in his prime on both clay and grass. Still wasn’t quite there on HCs yet outside of his tremendous Indian Wells performance, but on natural surfaces he was already there. The only reason people say he wasn’t in his prime is because he lost the fifth set of the Wimbledon final.

In fact, if the fifth set of the 2008 final had gone 7-9 instead of 9-7, I bet you many would still chalk 2008 down as a weak year.

Ultimately it's irrelevant because peak Fed ended in March of 07. There is no overlap. Djokovic never beat Peak Fed. Arguably Murray did at Cincy 06 but I think Fed deserves some slack due to being overscheduled.

Old Fed defeated peak Novak several times, including at slams FO 2011, Wimble 2012.

Of course Nadal was always a matchup problem for Fed on all surfaces before the big racquet change.

 

[Biotic]

Djoko wasn't great in the middle two sets of AO 26 F but I think Carlos did play a part of it. Mixing up variety, slices, using short angles to expose Djokovic's declined movement and bait an error out of him reflects some degree of problem solving taking place, especially without JCF in the box to rely on (sure, mug coaching era and what not, but in the social media gen we take what we can get). The AO 20 example is a good one and I was gonna use it to illustrate the other side of the argument (you already took it from me lel ).

Not sure if you watched the 2020 match. Federer relied on a desperate hail mary effort to win a couple of games fast because he knew he was going down either way (he was injured and considered pulling out), so why not try to go down with a bang. Didn't work out naturally. Meanwhile, 2026 AO Djoko actually proved he can beat anyone on a given day. Huge difference. The first set of the 2026 finals is the result of his regular play, the same he used to dismantle Alcaraz the year before. The rest played out the way it did because his legs were gone.

 

[SonnyT]

It's beyond ridiculous. Djokovic has faced the most top 10 talents in the history of tennis. And it's not even close!

Djokovic has won 68.6% of t10, constituting 27.4% of all his matches, only Borg's winning 71.1% tops that.

Among Big 3, Federer came in 2nd, winning 64.6% at 22.7%; Nadal in 3rd, winning 63.9% at 22.2%. These numbers are indicative of a top, top player!

Why Djokovic played more t10? It's because if you win more, you get to play more!

There's a club of 20 t10 wins. From '11 to '16, inclusively, Djokovic has been in the club 5 times, exception being '14, when he won only 19. In '15, he won 31, a record, 24 being the second most.

The club has only 10 members, with Djokovic appearing 5 times and Borg twice. Nadal appeared once, winning 24 in '13. See, Rafans, I told you '13 was his best year. His next best year was 17 in '08.

Technically, Federer never appeared with that club. But from other sources, Federer won 19 in '04 and '06.

Sinner won 18 in '24. And for all his achievements, Alcaraz' best was 12 in '24.

When I saw 23 something next to Sinner, the 2nd highest (it might have been posted by junkie), I knew the 27% of Djokovic was something very special!

And Djokovic's era was the strongest era in history, much more than the easy-peasy era of Federer.

 

[GabeT]

Ultimately it's irrelevant because peak Fed ended in March of 07. There is no overlap. Djokovic never beat Peak Fed. Arguably Murray did at Cincy 06 but I think Fed deserves some slack due to being overscheduled.

Old Fed defeated peak Novak several times, including at slams FO 2011, Wimble 2012.

Of course Nadal was always a matchup problem for Fed on all surfaces before the big racquet change.

I think this is the first time I’ve read someone claim to know when the peak level was down to a specific month.

 

[4UTRMoutet]

Not sure if you watched the 2020 match. Federer relied on a desperate hail mary effort to win a couple of games fast because he knew he was going down either way (he was injured and considered pulling out), so why not try to go down with a bang. Didn't work out naturally. Meanwhile, 2026 AO Djoko actually proved he can beat anyone on a given day. Huge difference. The first set of the 2026 finals is the result of his regular play, the same he used to dismantle Alcaraz the year before. The rest played out the way it did because his legs were gone.

2026 Djoko the same one down two sets to Musetti and then suddenly saved? The same one with a free walkover in R16 to avoid Mensik who defeated him in the Miami Final 2025? Yeah, Djoko got lucky he had energy saved from those free matches, otherwise he would've been swept by Muse or Sinner in straight sets.

If anything Alcaraz was going into the match with a disadvantage from that cramping shebang.

 

[Ballmachine87]

Djokovic only started regularly winning when Nadal and especially Federer were way past their best.

 

[SonnyT]

I think this is the first time I’ve read someone claim to know when the peak level was down to a specific month.

He must be a disciple of ELO!

 

[Biotic]

2026 Djoko the same one down two sets to Musetti and then suddenly saved? The same one with a free walkover in R16 to avoid Mensik who defeated him in the Miami Final 2025? Yeah, Djoko got lucky he had energy saved from those free matches, otherwise he would've been swept by Muse or Sinner in straight sets.

If anything Alcaraz was going into the match with a disadvantage from that cramping shebang.

What's your point besides being stupid? Yes, in case you missed it, the same Djoko beat Sinner, the 2 time defending champion. All things considered, Alcaraz was lucky he wasn't on the other side of the net in the SF. From what we saw in both SFs, 2025 treatment is inevitable.

 

[GabeT]

Djokovic only started regularly winning when Nadal and especially Federer were way past their best.

We keep repeating this nonsense.

Nadal is the same age as Novak (less than a year difference). And Rafa was 24-25 when Novak beat him in 7 straight finals across all surfaces and including 3 slam finals.

As for Federer there is an age difference but Novak began beating him when Fed was barely 26.

 

[4UTRMoutet]

What's your point besides being stupid? Yes, in case you missed it, the same Djoko beat Sinner, the 2 time defending champion. All things considered, Alcaraz was lucky he wasn't on the other side of the net in the SF. From what we saw in both SFs, 2025 treatment is inevitable.

What's your point besides proving you didn't even read what I wrote? What about the free passage through Musetti and Mensik? Two free rounds? Djokovic took a weekend in the middle of AO lol while Sincaraz played it fully out. Not a single word about it buckaroo.

 

[Biotic]

What's your point besides proving you didn't even read what I wrote? What about the free passage through Musetti and Mensik? Two free rounds? Djokovic took a weekend in the middle of AO lol while Sincaraz played it fully out. Not a single word about it buckaroo.

The original post was comparing 2026 AO F to 2020 AO SF. My reply followed. Then you came in with your stupid argument that still has no bearing on the subject. You're basically saying that had Djoko been more tired he would surely lose in the SF. Extremely dumb argument and surely not the one a 24 yo #1 player needs when facing a 39 yo.

 

[4UTRMoutet]

The original post was comparing 2026 AO F to 2020 AO SF. My reply followed. Then you came in with your stupid argument that still has no bearing on the subject. You're basically saying that had Djoko been more tired he would surely lose in the SF. Extremely dumb argument and surely not the one a 24 yo #1 player needs when facing a 39 yo.

"2026 Djoko actually proved he can beat anyone on a given day" lmao you mean 2026 Djoko with two free rounds. I'm not merely saying "that had Djoko been more tired" I'm saying "that had Djoko actually played out the full draw" buddy. I'm also saying that your definition of "2026 Djoko" is really inflated by the fact his SF wasn't even accurate of his actual level. Even Fed can lose to Agassi. The first set was not indeed the "result of his regular play" like you said. It's the result of "the result of taking a weekend in the middle of the tournament."

 

[Biotic]

"2026 Djoko actually proved he can beat anyone on a given day" lmao you mean 2026 Djoko with two free rounds. I'm not merely saying "that had Djoko been more tired" I'm saying "that had Djoko actually played out the full draw" buddy. I'm also saying that your definition of "2026 Djoko" is really inflated by the fact his SF wasn't even accurate of his actual level. Even Fed can lose to Agassi. The first set was not indeed the "result of his regular play" like you said. It's the result of "the result of taking a weekend in the middle of the tournament."

Lol yeah. Not fair. If only the old man was a bit more tired Sinner would've beaten him. Sinner was cheated by a Freshovic non accurate level.

Pathetic. Instead of looking for an easy way out via excuses to losing go a 39 year old, just look at the facts. 2026 Djokovic did what 2020 Federer could not even come close to. That is a hard fact. I'm not interested in hypotheticals and incoherent ramblings of a destroyed fangirl.

 

[4UTRMoutet]

Lol yeah. Not fair. If only the old man was a bit more tired Sinner would've beaten him. Sinner was cheated by a Freshovic non accurate level.

Pathetic. Instead of looking for an easy way out via excuses to losing go a 39 year old, just look at the facts. 2026 Djokovic did what 2020 Federer could not even come close to. That is a hard fact. I'm not interested in hypotheticals and incoherent ramblings of a destroyed fangirl.

What even are you barking about? I ain't talking about freshovic son I mean 2freeroundsovic lmao. I shouldn't even be taking you seriously since you're one of the resident NPCs on this forum. I can't argue against a total fool so I'll leave it off at here.

 

[Ballmachine87]

We keep repeating this nonsense.

Nadal is the same age as Novak (less than a year difference). And Rafa was 24-25 when Novak beat him in 7 straight finals across all surfaces and including 3 slam finals.

As for Federer there is an age difference but Novak began beating him when Fed was barely 26.

How many slams did Djokovic win before Federer turned 30 again?
Why couldn't Djokovic win slams when Nadal was at his peak?

 

[junkieballer]

Djokovic has beaten

- peak Federer at Australian Open 2008 (Federer won all Slams on hardcourt from 2005 UO to 2008 UO except for 2008 AO and had won QF and R16 in straight sets vs Blake and Berdych)
- peak Nadal from 2011 Indian Wells to 2012 Australian Open in 7 consecutive big tournament finals.
- peak Alcaraz at 2024 Olympics (Alcaraz had just won Roland Garros and Wimbledon and reached the Olympics final without dropping a set)
- peak Sinner at 2026 Australian Open (Sinner won without dropping a set all other big tournaments from 2025 Bercy to 2026 Miami and lost only one set before the semifinal at AO).

And Nole also beat peak Murray in the Roland Garros 2016 final and the Madrid 2016 final.

Murray had already begun his incredible run that gave him titles of Rome, Queen's, Wimbledon, Olympics, Beijing, Shanghai, Vienna, Bercy, YEC, plus Cincinnati final and US Open quartefinal.

 

[GabeT]

How many slams did Djokovic win before Federer turned 30 again?

Novak began winning slams when he was 20. His breakout year was the year he turned 24.

Fed began winning slams when he was 22. His breakout year was when he turned 23.

Why couldn't Djokovic win slams when Nadal was at his peak?

Ridiculous. First of all Nadal lost 7 straight finals to Novak, including 3 slam finals, when he was 24/25. And Novak not winning more slams earlier had little to do with Nadal outside of RG (obviously we all agree that Nadal at RG is GOAT).

 

[objection_]

Not sure if you watched the 2020 match. Federer relied on a desperate hail mary effort to win a couple of games fast because he knew he was going down either way (he was injured and considered pulling out), so why not try to go down with a bang. Didn't work out naturally. Meanwhile, 2026 AO Djoko actually proved he can beat anyone on a given day. Huge difference. The first set of the 2026 finals is the result of his regular play, the same he used to dismantle Alcaraz the year before. The rest played out the way it did because his legs were gone.

Yeah I watched the 2020 match and loved the first set hehe. Obviously the two circumstances aren't quite the same, but I would've made the comparison with regards to mid-match load management. As in Djoko selectively choosing games to blaze in and go all out aggressive while sort of tanking other return games and hanging on. I think that's what an uninjured AO 20 Fed would've done as well. Also I have to disagree with the last point, Djoko in the 2025 match was pretty regular and passive in the first set until the hamstring issue, which is when he really had to start blasting the ball. And so in that regard I think the first set of the 26 F can be compared to the 20 SF in that both guys knew they wouldn't really stand a chance in a longer match. Of course fatigue had a part in the rest of the match but Alcaraz's tactical adjustments secured the win, I don't believe for one second that say, a Zverev, would be able to capitalise on that.

 

[Turning Pro]

Wait. Where do we begin?



Djokovic NEVER faced 03-09 Grass Fed who reached 7 Wimbledon finals in a row and won 6.



He did face a 31 yr old version of Fed who still destroyed him in 2012. And only barely beat 33, 34 and 38 year old Fed 5,4 and 5 sets. Yeah ok...



He definitely didn't beat 04 to 07 Fed In Slams. Fed was virtually unstoppable on hc and grass slams. Only lost once to an monster of a performance by Safin at the Ao 05. His level is higher than Anything I've seen of Djokovic. Remember that incredible 2016 Ao performance by PEAK Djokovic who was in the middle of 4 in row. Yeah he beat nearly 35 year old Fed who still took a set off him.....



2011 best ever Djokovic on a run of 40 wins plus got demolished by Fed who only has 1 clay slam...



And Djokovic NEVER even got close to beating peak Nadal at the French. Beating 2015 Nadal in his WORST season since winning his 1st slam (2005) AND 2021 Fo Nadal who immediately got foot surgery and was out for 6 MONTHS.



He didn't even beat Nadal at the 2010 and 2013 US opens and and for someone who is the supposed HC GOAT, trails 1>2 against some 'clay court' specialist. He was 1 back hander as peak 2012 AO champion from losing his throne.



He never beat 2007/2008/2010 Nadal on grass.



Also never beaten 2009 Ao Nadal.




Also moving onto another point.....

Djokovic has been beaten peak by all 4 as well.



Nadal beaten peak Djokovic at Queens 2008 when Djokovic already had a dominant 2008 Aussie and had back to back hc slam finals at that point. Beat peak hc goat Djokovic at th3 2010 US open who had started a run of 6 CONSECUTIVE HC slam finals which also included losing the 2013 US open finals to Nadal again. No exclusive for a hc goat being 1>2 in hc slams finals. Imagine Nadal being anyways close to losing if there was a 2nd clay court slam lmao.



Injured April 2012-June 2014 Nadal who didnt most parts of them seasons destroyed Peak Djokovic who reached 6 slams finals during this specific period across all surfaces won 6 out of 7 matches on multiple surfaces against Djokovic and won 4 slam matches in a row against him. Not even 2006-2010 Nadal.



Baby 20-21 year old Alcaraz beaten peak Djokovic 2023 Wimbledon finals who was defending 4 time consecutive Champion and in one of his best years ever. THEN proceed to Thrash 2024 Wimbledon finals Djokovic who didnt drop a set until the 2024 finals and on his 6th consecutive finals.



Sinner destroyed peak 2024 AO Djokovic who just had one of his best years ever and had won 4 of the last 4 Ao he participated in. Then beat him in 5 times in a row including across All surfaces in slams where Djokovic would probably have won the slams without sinner and Alcaraz in the way.



Fed destroyed 2011 Fo PEAK Djokovic who was a run of 40 wins in a row?



Then as a way past peak 31 yr old Federer, (outside of his 2003-2008 grass peak/prime) who Destroyed defending 2011 Wimbledon champion and Djokovic who was on a run of 5 of the last 6 slams finals Djokovic.

 

[TTMR]

I think this is the first time I’ve read someone claim to know when the peak level was down to a specific month.

Peak Fed wouldn't lose to Canas. And certainly not twice in a row. One could argue prime Fed ended at Wimble 08 up to AO 10 but in no way did peak Fed show up to play Canas. He still had a three year true consecutive peak which is the longest of anyone this century. (January 04-March 07).

 

[SonnyT]

How many slams did Djokovic win before Federer turned 30 again?
Why couldn't Djokovic win slams when Nadal was at his peak?

There's proof that Nadal was better in '11, when he lost 6 straight to Djokovic, than in '10. And Nadal's best year was '13, despite what Rafans & Fedfans were saying to you!

How do we show that '11 Nadal was better than in '10? Simple, strip Nadal's data off Djokovic in both years. I believe junkie did just that and '11 Nadal was indeed much better. junkie, are you there? I need your help!

All the metrics say that '13 Nadal was the best of all years. In '13, Nadal achieved his highest ELO at US of 2552, only trailing Djokovic, Borg and Mac. And in'13 he defeated 24 top 10 players, with his next of 17, achieved in '08.

You look hurt

junkie, I need your help in providing data that Nadal was better '11 than in '10! Thanx,

 

[SonnyT]

Fed destroyed 2011 Fo PEAK Djokovic who was a run of 40 wins in a row?

In '11, Djokovic played Federer and Nadal 10 times, including 5 times at the slams. And he lost only once at RG, so he was 9-1, and 4-1 at the slams!

Are you telling me he wasn't perfect? No, he wasn't!

Your response!

 

[SonnyT]

I took the liberty of copying myself:

It's beyond ridiculous. Djokovic has faced the most top 10 talents in the history of tennis. And it's not even close!

Djokovic has won 68.6% of t10, constituting 27.4% of all his matches, only Borg's winning 71.1% tops that.

Among Big 3, Federer came in 2nd, winning 64.6% at 22.7%; Nadal in 3rd, winning 63.9% at 22.2%. These numbers are indicative of a top, top player!

Why Djokovic played more t10? It's because if you win more, you get to play more!

There's a club of 20 t10 wins. From '11 to '16, inclusively, Djokovic has been in the club 5 times, exception being '14, when he won only 19. In '15, he won 31, a record, 24 being the second most.

The club has only 10 members, with Djokovic appearing 5 times and Borg twice. Nadal appeared once, winning 24 in '13. See, Rafans, I told you '13 was his best year. His next best year was 17 in '08.

Technically, Federer never appeared with that club. But from other sources, Federer won 19 in '04 and '06.

Sinner won 18 in '24. And for all his achievements, Alcaraz' best was 12 in '24.

When I saw 23 something next to Sinner, the 2nd highest (it might have been posted by junkie), I knew the 27% of Djokovic was something very special!

And Djokovic's era was the strongest era in history, much more than the easy-peasy era of Federer.

 

[4UTRMoutet]

junkie, I need your help in providing data that Nadal was better '11 than in '10! Thanx,

Every bee in the hive has a role I see.

 

[GabeT]

Peak Fed wouldn't lose to Canas. And certainly not twice in a row. One could argue prime Fed ended at Wimble 08 up to AO 10 but in no way did peak Fed show up to play Canas. He still had a three year true consecutive peak which is the longest of anyone this century. (January 04-March 07).

I’m not going to pretend I have some peak level measuring device. But I wouldn’t read too much on a couple of M1000 losses. The priority for these guys has always been the slams

 

[junkieballer]

junkie, I need your help in providing data that Nadal was better '11 than in '10! Thanx,

More wins (71 > 69)
higher win percentage (89.9 > 89.6)
twice as many wins over top10s (18 > 9)
much better h2h vs Federer and Murray (8-2 > 3-3)

Post in thread 'Was Nadal better in 2010 or from 2011 IW to 2012 AO ?'

Aug 19, 2026

Score excluding matches vs Djokovic:

2010 = 69-8
IW11-AO12 = 71-8

So the second period was better. Considering that in the second period he beat twice as many top10s (18 > 9), the second period was much better

• junkieballer

 

[Biotic]

What even are you barking about? I ain't talking about freshovic son I mean 2freeroundsovic lmao. I shouldn't even be taking you seriously since you're one of the resident NPCs on this forum. I can't argue against a total fool so I'll leave it off at here.

It is you who replied to my post with your irrelevant dumbass argument. So yeah, I agree you better stay away if you can't muster a decent post instead of making braindead excuses for Sinner.

 

[Biotic]

Yeah I watched the 2020 match and loved the first set hehe. Obviously the two circumstances aren't quite the same, but I would've made the comparison with regards to mid-match load management. As in Djoko selectively choosing games to blaze in and go all out aggressive while sort of tanking other return games and hanging on. I think that's what an uninjured AO 20 Fed would've done as well. Also I have to disagree with the last point, Djoko in the 2025 match was pretty regular and passive in the first set until the hamstring issue, which is when he really had to start blasting the ball. And so in that regard I think the first set of the 26 F can be compared to the 20 SF in that both guys knew they wouldn't really stand a chance in a longer match. Of course fatigue had a part in the rest of the match but Alcaraz's tactical adjustments secured the win, I don't believe for one second that say, a Zverev, would be able to capitalise on that.

Except we don't really know if uninjured Fed would've played the way you'd like him to, and it's not at all believable that he would somehow manage to win vs Djoko there. In Djoko's case it is, because he actually beat Alcaraz the year before that.

The point with Alcaraz matchup is that 2025 Djoko, as well as 2026 Djoko obviously had the tools to beat him, that did not change much with Alcaraz tactical adjustments, as we saw in the 1st and to an extent in the 4th set. I mean there's no great wisdom there. Old guys can still play at very high level, especially when inspired, but can mostly do so in short bursts. And that was obviously enough in 2025 QF and 2026 SF. Zverev surely capitalizes on Djoko checking out of 2nd and 3rd sets, which is more than enough to give him an edge for the rest of the match.

 

[4UTRMoutet]

It is you who replied to my post with your irrelevant dumbass argument. So yeah, I agree you better stay away if you can't muster a decent post instead of making braindead excuses for Sinner.

durr durr as if 2020 AO Fed with two free rounds wouldn't benefit as much as Djokovic did. And it was you who started throwing out ad hominems and red herrings like a cornered animal, taking out rage online.

 

[Biotic]

durr durr as if 2020 AO Fed with two free rounds wouldn't benefit as much as Djokovic did. And it was you who started throwing out ad hominems and red herrings like a cornered animal, taking out rage online.

Well, well, look who decided to reply again, and with the same braindead argument no less. Like we don't deal with enough trash hypotheticals as it is. If it looks stupid and sounds stupid, then it is indeed stupid.

 

[objection_]

Except we don't really know if uninjured Fed would've played the way you'd like him to, and it's not at all believable that he would somehow manage to win vs Djoko there. In Djoko's case it is, because he actually beat Alcaraz the year before that.

The point with Alcaraz matchup is that 2025 Djoko, as well as 2026 Djoko obviously had the tools to beat him, that did not change much with Alcaraz tactical adjustments, as we saw in the 1st and to an extent in the 4th set. I mean there's no great wisdom there. Old guys can still play at very high level, especially when inspired, but can mostly do so in short bursts. And that was obviously enough in 2025 QF and 2026 SF. Zverev surely capitalizes on Djoko checking out of 2nd and 3rd sets, which is more than enough to give him an edge for the rest of the match.

Yeah first bit I agree with, Fed probably could've nabbed the first set but then the rest of the match probably goes 6-4 6-3 6-3 or something like that. I would put out the point that Fed went into the SF already injured, whereas Djokovic picked up the injury mid-match. Painkillers and adrenaline got him through the rest. Anyways Djoko AO 2020 was much better than Alcaraz at AO 2025, and Djokovic is better than Fed at the AO, especially on night time non-rebound ace.

I guess we just have to agree to disagree on the last paragraph. Obviously Djokovic had the tools to do it and not the legs, but 2025 Alcaraz wasn't capable of making those tactical adjustments. He tried out-hitting Djokovic in the closed court rallies, expecting the spin and weight of shot to bother Djoko as opposed to stretching out the hamstring (same mistake Sinner made in this year's semi), and paid the price for it because the AO court doesn't really amplify the bounce of that kind of hitting at night, and Djoker is the master of absorbing and redirecting balls in his strike zone. If you had 26 Carlos in place in that 25 QF I don't think it's controversial to suggest that the match goes 5, and Alcaraz has a much better chance of taking it.

And lol at Zverev capitalising on anything. Alcaraz exerts a physical and mental pressure Zverev simply isn't capable of. After getting blitzed in the first Zverev probably goes back into his shell and drops one of the 2nd or 3rd sets. Hell he went into his shell even when Alcaraz was cramping in the 3rd set of the semi and probably could've lost it in straights with one-legged Carlos blasting balls.

 

[4UTRMoutet]

Well, well, look who decided to reply again, and with the same braindead argument no less. Like we don't deal with enough trash hypotheticals as it is. If it looks stupid and sounds stupid, then it is indeed stupid.

Without fail it replies back!

 

[junkieballer]

How many slams did Djokovic win before Federer turned 30 again?
Why couldn't Djokovic win slams when Nadal was at his peak?

Fedal could dominate only before Nole entered his prime in 2011.

This circular argument is as old as Ken Rosewall.

 

[Biotic]

Without fail it replies back!

Truth need to be said.

 

[Biotic]

I guess we just have to agree to disagree on the last paragraph. Obviously Djokovic had the tools to do it and not the legs, but 2025 Alcaraz wasn't capable of making those tactical adjustments. He tried out-hitting Djokovic in the closed court rallies, expecting the spin and weight of shot to bother Djoko as opposed to stretching out the hamstring (same mistake Sinner made in this year's semi), and paid the price for it because the AO court doesn't really amplify the bounce of that kind of hitting at night, and Djoker is the master of absorbing and redirecting balls in his strike zone. If you had 26 Carlos in place in that 25 QF I don't think it's controversial to suggest that the match goes 5, and Alcaraz has a much better chance of taking it.

And lol at Zverev capitalising on anything. Alcaraz exerts a physical and mental pressure Zverev simply isn't capable of. After getting blitzed in the first Zverev probably goes back into his shell and drops one of the 2nd or 3rd sets. Hell he went into his shell even when Alcaraz was cramping in the 3rd set of the semi and probably could've lost it in straights with one-legged Carlos blasting balls.

Sure we can disagree. I'd just say that i can't see why 2025 Alcaraz was not able to "stretch the hamstring". I think it's more of a case, like you previously mentioned, that Alcaraz could not deal with agressive play on a low bouncing surface. 2025 Djoko pulled it off, 2026 Djoko started spraying errors as soon as his legs were gone. Not sure how much better 2026 Alcaraz was compared to 2025, probably at least a bit better, but hard to gauge with such SF and most of the F. You can say 26 in 25 could possibly go 5, no problem with that.

You're right to doubt Zverev, but dismissing entirely the possibility of him taking the 2 sets Djoko played like crap is disingenuous.

 

[objection_]

Sure we can disagree. I'd just say that i can't see why 2025 Alcaraz was not able to "stretch the hamstring". I think it's more of a case, like you previously mentioned, that Alcaraz could not deal with agressive play on a low bouncing surface. 2025 Djoko pulled it off, 2026 Djoko started spraying errors as soon as his legs were gone. Not sure how much better 2026 Alcaraz was compared to 2025, probably at least a bit better, but hard to gauge with such SF and most of the F. You can say 26 in 25 could possibly go 5, no problem with that.

You're right to doubt Zverev, but dismissing entirely the possibility of him taking the 2 sets Djoko played like crap is disingenuous.

AO 2025 Alcaraz certainly on paper had the tools to stretch the hamstring, the issue was more to do with tactics (the same mistake I think Sinner made in this year's semi). And yeah he didn't really have the experience yet to deal with that sort of play on the surface. Part of that may be due to JCF sabotage @Kralingen By late 25/early 26 I think he figured out how to deal with those circumstances, his level in the YEC was pretty good including keeping it extremely tight with Sinner on his favourite surface.

Guilty of over-exaggerating on the Zverev point. Obviously there's probably like a 90% chance he grabs one set, maybe a 30ish% he gets two? Assuming Djoko raises his level a bit. Then he found a 2nd wind midway through the 4th, and if it goes to a 5th I know who I'm backing.

 

[SonnyT]

More wins (71 > 69)
higher win percentage (89.9 > 89.6)
twice as many wins over top10s (18 > 9)
much better h2h vs Federer and Murray (8-2 > 3-3)

Post in thread 'Was Nadal better in 2010 or from 2011 IW to 2012 AO ?'

Aug 19, 2026

Score excluding matches vs Djokovic:

2010 = 69-8
IW11-AO12 = 71-8

So the second period was better. Considering that in the second period he beat twice as many top10s (18 > 9), the second period was much better

• junkieballer

Bravo! For Nadal, '11>'10, the one that lost 6 straight to Djokovic. But '13 was best of all!

 

[Turning Pro]

Fedal could dominate only before Nole entered his prime in 2011.

This circular argument is as old as Ken Rosewall.

Nadal was a teenage prodigy who was beating clay court legends at 16-17 yrs old and an early bloomer/developer and 2006-2010 was his best results on grass (06-08/10) and clay (06-10) and peakiest performances on hard court (08 Olympics, 09 Australia, 2010 us Open.) He Went 5-0 vs Djokovic at slams who had already started his prime when he won Miami 2007 and then won Montreal 2007 then went bk to hc slam finals and got to the Semis at 5 consecutive majors from 07 French to 08 French.

Federer went 4-1 vs Djokovic at slams from 07-09 and only loss during Mono Fed at the Ao 08. 24/25 year old Djokovic then lost to 30yr old 2011 Fed at the French and 31 yr old 2012 Wimbledon which was way out of his 03-07 peak/prime yet Djokovic was in the middle of his best years age, physically, results and movement wise.

 

[SonnyT]

More wins (71 > 69)
higher win percentage (89.9 > 89.6)
twice as many wins over top10s (18 > 9)
much better h2h vs Federer and Murray (8-2 > 3-3)

Post in thread 'Was Nadal better in 2010 or from 2011 IW to 2012 AO ?'

Aug 19, 2026

Score excluding matches vs Djokovic:

2010 = 69-8
IW11-AO12 = 71-8

So the second period was better. Considering that in the second period he beat twice as many top10s (18 > 9), the second period was much better

• junkieballer

That, Nadal '11>'10 was no surprise to me, since Nadal at ages 24-25 was just interring his prime and maturing, both physically and mentally. So giving an extra year to mature, he should be better. Woe to those who said his peak was in '06! Yeah right, he peaked at 19, this is no gymnastics we're talking about!

The metrics showed his peak was at '13. He and Djokovic were tied at 2 all in the finals, and then Djokovic just run out of gas. He had to win the final 2 sets to win a 5-setter against Wawrinka, while Nadal waltzed through his semi against Gasquet.

That was the second straight slam where that happened to Djokovic. At '13 WB, In the semis, Murray blasted through somebody by the name of Janowicz, while Djokovic and JMdP struggled through 5 sets. And it was especially hot come Sunday.

 

[junkieballer]

That, Nadal '11>'10 was no surprise to me, since Nadal at ages 24-25 was just interring his prime and maturing, both physically and mentally. So giving an extra year to mature, he should be better. Woe to those who said his peak was in '06! Yeah right, he peaked at 19, this is no gymnastics we're talking about!

The metrics showed his peak was at '13. He and Djokovic were tied at 2 all in the finals, and then Djokovic just run out of gas. He had to win the final 2 sets to win a 5-setter against Wawrinka, while Nadal waltzed through his semi against Gasquet.

That was the second straight slam where that happened to Djokovic. At '13 WB, In the semis, Murray blasted through somebody by the name of Janowicz, while Djokovic and JMdP struggled through 5 sets. And it was especially hot come Sunday.

Statistically Nadal's peak was not 2013 but 2010 RG to 2012 RG

From 2013 IW to 2014 RG he was very good overall but won 0 matches on grass.

 

[SonnyT]

Statistically Nadal's peak was not 2013 but 2010 RG to 2012 RG

From 2013 IW to 2014 RG he was very good overall but won 0 matches on grass.

junkie, I feel so sad to cut into their denounce-Djokovic party they had going! Not!

(They're ridiculous, every single player has had bad losses. If they have any senses left, they would know. Just looking at the record books, tell you that the frequency of Djokovic's bad losses was less than any other player, except the young kids A&S.)

 

[Angrybirdstar]

AO 2025 Alcaraz certainly on paper had the tools to stretch the hamstring, the issue was more to do with tactics

he was still lacking 1st serve level (lacked free points), confidence in his BH rally tolerance (due to modified technique at start of '25), pace absorption on FH (so fed Djokovic more attackable balls), and consistent neutral-offense (gave away free points). '26 Alcaraz wins AO '25 QF in 4 at worst imo, he was already decently close IRL while having a lower level and underperforming to the point of drop shot spamming (see also RG '22 and AO '24)