Djokovic has never been further ahead of the field

[Neptune]

lol don’t bother dude

Nole every win really hurts some feelings

 

[nolefam_2024]

Nole's YE #1 total and ahead of #2 by points
2015: 16585, 7640
2011: 13630, 4035
2021: 11540, 2900
2023: 11245, 2390
Try more to cherry picking and spin 2015 vs 2023 ok?

Exactly.
And nolefams don't need to defend his 2023 over any other years than 2011 2015

He is the goat. He pushed himself massively this year. High rpm forehands best serve he ever had high muscle mass.

 

[pirhaksar]

Do you seriously believe that had that incident not occurred, he wouldn't have had the same results over the last two seasons?

Yes that’s as good an assumption as some of the dumb ones routinely made here that at 36 player needs to only do X or an entire generation of players are useless and mugs etc.
But I do think the Aus humiliation (yes imho it was self inflicted) really lit a fire under him. From what I have seen of Djokovic a peeved or wronged Djokovic doesn’t forget and forgive. That chip on his shoulder becomes a boulder. The take down of De Minaur after he made some remarks was brutal.

 

[InsuranceMan]

Being imprisoned woke up beast in him. He wanted revenge. He wants his opponents to knee in front of him begging for forgiveness and mercy. He wants all the records in history. He is the impaler, punisher, mummy, robot and terminator in one.

Amazon has a pretty good Black Friday deal for knee pads this week

 

[Neptune]

Exactly.
And nolefams don't need to defend his 2023 over any other years than 2011 2015

He is the goat. He pushed himself massively this year. High rpm forehands best serve he ever had high muscle mass.

GOAT achieved the most via the hardest way:
Career wins against top5: 122
Career wins against top10: 257
Career wins against opponent with Elo>=2400: 36
Career wins against opponent with Elo>=2300: 80
Highest Average Opponent Rank
Highest Average Opponent Elo Rating
All lead the 2nd by a wide margin

All Nolefams need to remind the salty tears

 

[Azure]

There are of course only two possibilities, A- that Djokovic is stronger than ever before, or B- that the field is weaker than ever before, or some combination of the two. There are no other possibilities, this is self-evident.

Personally I find that Djokovic is certainly not stronger than ever before. Not only does his game being better than ever not pass the eye test, this would also run contrary to everything we have ever seen in sports history, witnessing an athlete reach his apex at age 36-37. Short of Barry Bonds, when have we seen that happen? There is a reason.

With that being said, I do think Djokovic plays at a very high level for his age. Not better than ever or even close to it, but still at shall we say a 7.5/10 version of himself, if we're calling 2011/2015 his 10/10. That, *combined with* a field that has not only been depleted of Djokovic-level talent (no more Nadal or Federer, or even Murray or Wawrinka), but perhaps more critically, depleted of players who have the conviction, courage and mental strength to face down Djokovic in big matches, has led to what we are seeing today. And I see no reason why Djokovic cannot win a CYGS in 2024.

I can add one thing though. Novak is probably more confident now than he was in 2015. With more confidence, he can hit without doubt. That way, since he is indeed better than the field, he gets better results than them and he in turn is gaining even more confidence. Confidence and mental strength at that level are absolutely needed, and indeed what kept Fed behind in the infamous 40-15.

 

[tennis3]

Being imprisoned woke up beast in him. He wanted revenge. He wants his opponents to knee in front of him begging for forgiveness and mercy. He wants all the records in history. He is the impaler, punisher, mummy, robot and terminator in one.

Do you seriously believe that had that incident not occurred, he wouldn't have had the same results over the last two seasons?

The rest of the field got vaccinated. Djokovic didn't. He's now dominating tennis.

Coincidence?

 

[pirhaksar]

You must remember last year? Nadal had a winning streak all the way to Indian Wells, won 2 slams, all while being physically compromised. Next year, he'll go into RG as the 3rd favourite (according to odds) without even playing for a year. The big 3 are just a class above, but Djokovic has the big advantage of not having a big physical decline.

This!

 

[pirhaksar]

There are of course only two possibilities, A- that Djokovic is stronger than ever before, or B- that the field is weaker than ever before, or some combination of the two. There are no other possibilities, this is self-evident.

Personally I find that Djokovic is certainly not stronger than ever before. Not only does his game being better than ever not pass the eye test, this would also run contrary to everything we have ever seen in sports history, witnessing an athlete reach his apex at age 36-37. Short of Barry Bonds, when have we seen that happen? There is a reason.

With that being said, I do think Djokovic plays at a very high level for his age. Not better than ever or even close to it, but still at shall we say a 7.5/10 version of himself, if we're calling 2011/2015 his 10/10. That, *combined with* a field that has not only been depleted of Djokovic-level talent (no more Nadal or Federer, or even Murray or Wawrinka), but perhaps more critically, depleted of players who have the conviction, courage and mental strength to face down Djokovic in big matches, has led to what we are seeing today. And I see no reason why Djokovic cannot win a CYGS in 2024.

That’s a more reasonable take. I believe he is at 90% if his best time. He has clearly re-tooled and swapped some of his younger tools with newer ones that seem to be pretty darn effective. He literally served like peak Fed yday brutally hitting his spots and Sinner couldn’t get a racket on for lots of them. On the younger guys, they are all talented and have beaten him before it’s largely mental for some of them, so called aura of invincibility gets to them.

 

[Sport]

Well, Alcaraz of the spring and summer looked awesome and obviously beat Nole at Wimby

Post Wimbledon, it is clear he was not up to the task, and that isn’t even anything to do with Novak, he’s losing to random bums left and right.

I think it's great that Alcaraz got this demolition job from Novak at the ATP finals. He needs to wake up. Because he lost to Novak in Cincinnati holding match points, Carlitos probably thought he was in the right path. He wasn't. I already noticed, I think you did too, a terrible pattern since Cincinnati. Alcaraz can't sustain longer than 4-5 shots rallies against Novak. He gets too impatient and attempts to finish the point too early, usually hitting wide, going for a crazy difficult winner instead of being more patient in the point construction. I wasn't impressed by Alcaraz's level at RG in the SF this year either, not even before the cramps. Too many UE, way more than what you would expect from peak Thiem.

So I think it's great Novak demolished Carlitos in the ATP finals. The young Murciano needs to reevalate his game plan against the Serbian and learn to be more patient in point construction. If I'm not mistaken, Carlitos has lost the last 4 sets in a row against Novak, and the last 6 in a row if we include the set-trainings from Paris-Bercy and Turin. Hope this makes Carlos and his team led by Ferrero reconsider the strategies against the Serbian.

It's a matter of time, I hope Alcaraz can eventually come back to his optimal level shown during the grass season this year.

 

[weakera]

I can add one thing though. Novak is probably more confident now than he was in 2015. With more confidence, he can hit without doubt. That way, since he is indeed better than the field, he gets better results than them and he in turn is gaining even more confidence. Confidence and mental strength at that level are absolutely needed, and indeed what kept Fed behind in the infamous 40-15.

True, the margins at the top can be thin and sometimes these things can make a critical difference.

 

[jl809]

The reason? Well, it's obvious at this point.

 

[ThisHockeyTalk]

It matters because biology is same for everyone

Ask Justin Gatlin, he would tell you that his top time should have been somewhere in his 9.6x like his lesser accomplished rival like Tyson Gay or someone like Asafa Powell but it is not, the reason he is missed out on his peak years, so no amount of hard work done in the future can compensate for lost youth.

Biology is certainly “not the same for everyone”. The sun sets on us all, in many ways, but some can hold up that setting sun better than other. Some people live to 105 while living a care free lifestyle while a health junkie can die of aneurysm aged 35. A sport against a clock is much different than against a field of opponents. I kinda agree with your analysis on running… for the most part, but not tennis.

 

[Cortana]

I truely believe that 2023 is the best Djokovic we‘ve ever seen. There are specific parts of his game that were better 5-10 years ago, but Djokovic as a whole player is just more experienced, more intelligent and way more focused than he ever was. He doesn‘t produce those magic shots that regulary anymore, but he is way more efficient in those rallies.

 

[wang07]

What a shame 2023 and 2015 are even comparable seasons statistically. Almost makes me miss the Djokovic from 2015. Back then he was on top of a field with lots of respectable, and some truly strong players, while he also managed to use genuinely hostile crowds to his advantage. As a result you had a true warrior with a nearly-unbeatable aura all around him, and it was commanding even if you didn't like the guy. There was a lot of tension and intensity on the court.

It was just so much more authentic and real, and it felt way more like a serious competition than whatever is going on recently. Dude gets to laugh on court regularly, then he gets bored midway through matches, and desperately tries to get the crowd involved, because he knows even 60-70% of his current peak is enough to beat "top players", and all he needs is some external, artificial motivation to get that 300th NID win vs. the current mug. It's just sad honestly.

Spoiler

 

[ThisHockeyTalk]

The reason? Well, it's obvious at this point.

Everyone else is cardiac inflamed from the fauci-ouchie. Maybe that accounts for the margin.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Yes that’s as good an assumption as some of the dumb ones routinely made here that at 36 player needs to only do X or an entire generation of players are useless and mugs etc.
But I do think the Aus humiliation (yes imho it was self inflicted) really lit a fire under him. From what I have seen of Djokovic a peeved or wronged Djokovic doesn’t forget and forgive. That chip on his shoulder becomes a boulder. The take down of De Minaur after he made some remarks was brutal.

It is true. Djokovic always performs better when he has a point to prove or to get revenge. It’s just the way he is.

 

[travlerajm]

Being imprisoned woke up beast in him. He wanted revenge. He wants his opponents to knee in front of him begging for forgiveness and mercy. He wants all the records in history. He is the impaler, punisher, mummy, robot and terminator in one.

It’s clear he made some technical changes to his setup during that period that widened the gap.

 

[Cortana]

Dude gets to laugh on court regularly

Maybe he is just more relaxed because he already beat all the records? Enjoying himself more?

He was waaay too serious in his 20s.

 

[Bambooman]

It matters because biology is same for everyone

Ask Justin Gatlin, he would tell you that his top time should have been somewhere in his 9.6x like his lesser accomplished rival like Tyson Gay or someone like Asafa Powell but it is not, the reason he is missed out on his peak years, so no amount of hard work done in the future can compensate for lost youth.

lol. No it isn't.

 

[Razer]

Biology is certainly “not the same for everyone”. The sun sets on us all, in many ways, but some can hold up that setting sun better than other. Some people live to 105 while living a care free lifestyle while a health junkie can die of aneurysm aged 35. A sport against a clock is much different than against a field of opponents. I kinda agree with your analysis on running… for the most part, but not tennis.

lol. No it isn't.

Biology is more or less in the same bandwidth in Sports.

Your 20s is your prime, some guys are past their peak level at 23-24 itself, some guys are at 29, but more or less it is always in your 20s..... Nole was at his best ever level at 27-28.... Nadal was at 22 .... Federer probably at 25... but biology does not work in ways that could make someone peak into the 30s, in tennis that kinda things dont happen

 

[RS]

 

[nolefam_2024]

Biology is more or less in the same bandwidth in Sports.

Your 20s is your prime, some guys are past their peak level at 23-24 itself, some guys are at 29, but more or less it is always in your 20s..... Nole was at his best ever level at 27-28.... Nadal was at 22 .... Federer probably at 25... but biology does not work in ways that could make someone peak into the 30s, in tennis that kinda things dont happen

Tennis is not track and field.

It's a sport with its own rules. Otherwise player with most pts will win. There will be no such thing as unforced errors.

Just keep botting serve higher and faster, keep running around the court harder and hit ball at its maximum.

Be a peak thiem. It doesn't work that way in tennis. It's not endurance sport either. You need to have racket skills. Nole's skills is his depth. No power baseliner like Delpo or Thiem has what it takes to keep the ball IN consistently


And since it's obvious tennis isn't track and field the decline in tennis is when players can't do the things that matters. In Djokovic's case it's bending down for low balls or adjusting high balls on clay, sliding on hard courts and getting maximum from his serve.

He is smart to keep adjusting his game to have less reliance on his aging body. Tennis players are not track and field athletes

What Nole lost in speed he gained in skills

If Nole couldn't bend down enough for low balls then ok. It does tire a player out bending on low balls and it will keep getting harder for him as he ages more. But till now he is in top shape.

Also the other guys like sinner and Raz themselves are not in physical prime so him being just outside of his prime and them not being in prime is cancelled out.

 

[djokovic the conqueror]

This is why Djokovic is the GOAT! He always finds a way to improve. His discipline, mental strength, tennis iq and desire to win is unmatched. He gets better as he ages. His serve, forehand, and volleys are better than it's ever been. He has no weaknesses. The most complete tennis player ever. It doesn't matter what era he's in because eventually he'll surpass them all.

 

[ChrisRF]

Because he is versatile and creative now. 10 years ago he sometimes seemed clueless, but now he solves any riddle. And if he may lose once, then certainly he knows what to do next time against the same opponent.

The serve and net play has so much improved over the past few years, and even the smash looked solid for the last few weeks.

Also he is ALWAYS relentless now. Back then he USUALLY was a great fighter, but sometimes he came out flat and looked like he didn't want to be there.

 

[NeutralFan]

So why did it take him until age 36 to get this good?

More experience? Better rivals inspiring him to improve ?

 

[Razer]

Tennis is not track and field.

It's a sport with its own rules. Otherwise player with most pts will win. There will be no such thing as unforced errors.

Just keep botting serve higher and faster, keep running around the court harder and hit ball at its maximum.

Be a peak thiem. It doesn't work that way in tennis. It's not endurance sport either. You need to have racket skills. Nole's skills is his depth. No power baseliner like Delpo or Thiem has what it takes to keep the ball IN consistently


And since it's obvious tennis isn't track and field the decline in tennis is when players can't do the things that matters. In Djokovic's case it's bending down for low balls or adjusting high balls on clay, sliding on hard courts and getting maximum from his serve.

He is smart to keep adjusting his game to have less reliance on his aging body. Tennis players are not track and field athletes

What Nole lost in speed he gained in skills

If Nole couldn't bend down enough for low balls then ok. It does tire a player out bending on low balls and it will keep getting harder for him as he ages more. But till now he is in top shape.

Also the other guys like sinner and Raz themselves are not in physical prime so him being just outside of his prime and them not being in prime is cancelled out.

It doesn't work like that!

The young guys have not caught up with Nole because they lack the talent to bridge the gap despite the power of youth at their disposal. A young Fed/young Nadal would have bridged this gap quite easily if they were around but that kind of time travel tennis does not exist. A 2015 Djokovic could maybe beat 2006 Federer or 2008 Nadal but 2019-2020 or 2023 Djokovic will not be able to, does not matter how much he improved his game, if he can still bend, slide, all that won't matter because when 2 great players face off against each other then the margins are often very small. Loss of athleticism of 3-5% will not be visible against Mugvedev/Baby Alcaraz/Zverev but it will be visible against a peak Nadal or a peak Federer.

At the highest level between equally talented rivals, age gaps and athleticism difference does make a difference even if a small drop.

 

[nolefam_2024]

It doesn't work like that!

The young guys have not caught up with Nole because they lack the talent to bridge the gap despite the power of youth at their disposal. A young Fed/young Nadal would have bridged this gap quite easily if they were around but that kind of time travel tennis does not exist. A 2015 Djokovic could maybe beat 2006 Federer or 2008 Nadal but 2019-2020 or 2023 Djokovic will not be able to, does not matter how much he improved his game, if he can still bend, slide, all that won't matter because when 2 great players face off against each other then the margins are often very small. Loss of athleticism of 3-5% will not be visible against Mugvedev/Baby Alcaraz/Zverev but it will be visible against a peak Nadal or a peak Federer.

At the highest level between equally talented rivals, age gaps and athleticism difference does make a difference even if a small drop.

False again.

 

[Razer]

False again.

No it is not false, use your brain and think clearly.

Nole is playing tier 6 players now, guys who are unworthy to win slams in any era, the Tsitsipas, Ruud types..... Drop in athleticism makes no difference to him when he is playing losers

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

I don't think there's any player in the top 8(or just about any player) against whom Djokovic doesn't have the mental edge

Alcaraz, Sinner, Medvedev, Rune, Tsitsipas, Rublev... Anyone you name.. Djokovic would be favoured

The only guys who were never intimidated by Djokovic (Federer, Nadal , Murray and Stan in slams ) are just not there now

The last time Djokovic walked into a match without the mental edge win or lose would be against Nadal @RG 22 QF

 

[nolefam_2024]

I don't think there's any player in the top 8(or just about any player) against whom Djokovic doesn't have the mental edge

Alcaraz, Sinner, Medvedev, Rune, Tsitsipas, Rublev... Anyone you name.. Djokovic would be favoured

The only guys who were never intimidated by Djokovic (Federer, Nadal , Murray and Stan in slams ) are just not there now

The last time Djokovic walked into a match without the mental edge win or lose would be against Nadal @RG 22 QF

Murray should be intimidated of Nole. He gave Murray many heartbreaks.

 

[Sephiroth]

I said something similar to this in the match thread

I think egg looked beatable and won a few grand slams against the next gen through good fortune between 2020 and 2021 but this year he has looked like the convincing player

 

[Sephiroth]

2023 is the year where he's outright looked convincing against the kids compared to before where they choked a lot of times

This year he's been on the front foot, I can't recall a match where he should've lost compared to the 2021 year

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

I don't think there's any player in the top 8(or just about any player) against whom Djokovic doesn't have the mental edge

Alcaraz, Sinner, Medvedev, Rune, Tsitsipas, Rublev... Anyone you name.. Djokovic would be favoured

The only guys who were never intimidated by Djokovic (Federer, Nadal , Murray and Stan in slams ) are just not there now

The last time Djokovic walked into a match without the mental edge win or lose would be against Nadal @RG 22 QF

Overall he still leads the H2H with all these guys too.

The guy is just that good and a mental beast. Hopefully nadal can comeback strong so they can clash again but it looks unlikely now.

 

[travlerajm]

I agree with the OP. The gap is the widest it’s ever been.

The reason is a combo of equal parts improvements to djokovic’s game and deterioration of level of the field.

The reasons for how Djokovic has improved despite aging past his peak physical prime and for why the best young players are worse now than a decade ago are complex subjects that deserve their own threads.

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

Overall he still leads the H2H with all these guys too.

The guy is just that good and a mental beast. Hopefully nadal can comeback strong so they can clash again but it looks unlikely now.

I'm not talking about in terms of H2H though.. I know Djokovic is a mental Titan and he's still playing at a high level but I feel the current crop of players walk into a match with the mindset of I hope to win while Djokovic is like I'm going to win

Nadal, Federer , Murray and maybe Stan for the all beatings they have taken against Djokovic always walked out with the mindset I'm winning this except on a few occasions
Hoping for a good Nadal comeback so we get more Djokodal contests before it's over for good

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

Murray should be intimidated of Nole. He gave Murray many heartbreaks.

Nah.. Djokovic is just the better player but don't think Murray fears him

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

I'm not talking about in terms of H2H though.. I know Djokovic is a mental Titan and he's still playing at a high level but I feel the current crop of players walk into a match with the mindset of I hope to win while Djokovic is like I'm going to win

Nadal, Federer , Murray and maybe Stan for the all beatings they have taken against Djokovic always walked out with the mindset I'm winning this except on a few occasions
Hoping for a good Nadal comeback so we get more Djokodal contests before it's over for good

I agree. You are right they had a different mentality about them and weren’t best in the locker room.

I agree that I hope Rafa comes back. I want him back strong for competition. While it’s going to be difficult for him it’s Rafael Nadal who’s comeback so many times so we can’t fully write him off till he’s retired officially.

 

[Born_to_slice]

His great competition from 10 years ago has evaporated. Their replacements are not up to the job. That's what happened!

Imagine if Novak had 25-11 or 21-6 H2H with Carlos Alcaraz or Rune or Medvedev. Then they would be a great competition.

 

[RS]

So why did it take him until age 36 to get this good?

You tell us.

Let's start with how many slams does 2018-2023 Djokovic win in your chosen period.

 

[dking68]

I can wrap my head around Djokovic continuing to win it all. He is a tremendous player with single-minded focus and dedication.

What I can’t wrap my head around is how, at age 36, he’s somehow moved further ahead of the field than he has ever been.

2023:

55-6
3 Slams
83/84 sets won in Slams
Only 10 total sets dropped in Slams total, including 3 in the Wimby final.
Only 5 sets dropped across the 3 Slams he won
All Slam final wins in straight sets
35-2 on HC
17-4 vs top 10 (losses are Med in Dubai, Rune in Rome, Carlos at Wimby, Sinner in RR, only one loss of actual consequence)
YEC win, dropping a total of 11 games in the knockout rounds
YE #1 by 2390 points

Yes, we’re witnessing the most dominant, most never-in-doubt, most head-and-shoulders that Novak has ever been above the field. There were similarly dominant years, in his career, obviously 2011, 2015, and 2021, but this one takes the cake.

Even in 2015, he had big losses and tough matches along the way - Wawrinka and Murray proving a difficult challenge in AO/RG, taking a combined 8 sets from him, Federer and Murray beating him multiple times in Bo3, Kevin Anderson going up 2-0 at Wimbledon, etc. While Novak won many more matches in ‘15, he was also pushed more when it counted.

In 2021, Zverev took big titles from him in the Olympics and YEC, and Novak struggled to play cleanly at times, going 5 with Fritz, Musetti, Tsitsipas, Zverev in Bo5. His win % was nearly identical, but the biggest battles he had even then - Medvedev, Zverev, and Tsitsipas - have now all been completely solved. Novak straight setted both Tsitsipas and Medvedev in Slam finals in 2023.

How and why is this happening?

We’re in an era of chokers

 

[esvc]

How and why is this happening?

mRNA made all the other players choke on big points at the latest stage of tournaments.

 

[Kralingen]

You tell us.

Let's start with how many slams does 2018-2023 Djokovic win in your chosen period.

He gets around 4 in 78-83

 

[Cabeza del Demonio]

I can wrap my head around Djokovic continuing to win it all. He is a tremendous player with single-minded focus and dedication.

What I can’t wrap my head around is how, at age 36, he’s somehow moved further ahead of the field than he has ever been.

2023:

55-6
3 Slams
83/84 sets won in Slams
Only 10 total sets dropped in Slams total, including 3 in the Wimby final.
Only 5 sets dropped across the 3 Slams he won
All Slam final wins in straight sets
35-2 on HC
17-4 vs top 10 (losses are Med in Dubai, Rune in Rome, Carlos at Wimby, Sinner in RR, only one loss of actual consequence)
YEC win, dropping a total of 11 games in the knockout rounds
YE #1 by 2390 points

Yes, we’re witnessing the most dominant, most never-in-doubt, most head-and-shoulders that Novak has ever been above the field. There were similarly dominant years, in his career, obviously 2011, 2015, and 2021, but this one takes the cake.

Even in 2015, he had big losses and tough matches along the way - Wawrinka and Murray proving a difficult challenge in AO/RG, taking a combined 8 sets from him, Federer and Murray beating him multiple times in Bo3, Kevin Anderson going up 2-0 at Wimbledon, etc. While Novak won many more matches in ‘15, he was also pushed more when it counted.

In 2021, Zverev took big titles from him in the Olympics and YEC, and Novak struggled to play cleanly at times, going 5 with Fritz, Musetti, Tsitsipas, Zverev in Bo5. His win % was nearly identical, but the biggest battles he had even then - Medvedev, Zverev, and Tsitsipas - have now all been completely solved. Novak straight setted both Tsitsipas and Medvedev in Slam finals in 2023.

How and why is this happening?

Alcaraz is still a major problem for him, more than anyone in 2015 was on the big stage.
Was the better player for much of RG before he started cramping.
Beat him at Wimbledon.
Had match points at Cincinnati.
The main difference was that Djokovic regrouped after Wimbledon while Alcaraz fell off a cliff.

 

[thrust]

He was further ahead of the field in 2015 because he was the best on every surface and beating him anywhere was a shock. It was a true shock to the tennis world that he lost the 2015 RG final. He went into that RG match against Nadal as the favorite because he was so dominant and Nadal was off his game. I can't think of any other time someone was the favorite against Nadal at RG (except 2020 when they all got it completely wrong because of the conditions).

This year, Djokovic struggled in clay season (really wasn't a good clay season for his standards) and took multiple losses. In 2015, he took one loss which was a big one. Still, after that loss he went 41-3 winning 2 Slams, ATP finals, 2 Masters and making two more Masters finals. Then he dominated the 1st half of 2016, going 44-3 until the end of RG, winning 2 Slams and 3 Masters. He destroyed the game during that time.

This year, IMO, Novak was saving himself and prepping for RG, which he won. Winning RG was much more important for him than Madrid, MC or Rome.

 

[thrust]

Nole's YE #1 total and ahead of #2 by points
2015: 16585, 7640
2011: 13630, 4035
2021: 11540, 2900
2023: 11245, 2390
Try more to cherry picking and spin 2015 vs 2023 ok?

In 2015 Novak was only 28, not 36 Also, I am sure he played more tournaments in 15.

 

[NoleFam]

This year, IMO, Novak was saving himself and prepping for RG, which he won. Winning RG was much more important for him than Madrid, MC or Rome.

I agree but his level was bad for his standards before RG. Said in his press conference after the ATP finals that he was doubting his game because he wasn't playing well. His team told him don't stress it because he will play better in the Slam and he did.

 

[Born_to_slice]

He gets around 4 in 78-83

CYGS, right?

 

[GoatNo1]

So why did it take him until age 36 to get this good?

he was not 36 back in 2011, 2015 or 2021, was he?
he is, more or less, so good already in lat 13 years (except 2017).

 

[mike danny]

I can add one thing though. Novak is probably more confident now than he was in 2015. With more confidence, he can hit without doubt. That way, since he is indeed better than the field, he gets better results than them and he in turn is gaining even more confidence. Confidence and mental strength at that level are absolutely needed, and indeed what kept Fed behind in the infamous 40-15.

It's easy to be confident when there isn't a player who's had your number for an extended period of time. Fed failed miserably at Wimb, but he had the mental task of overcoming a 7 year timeframe in which he had not beaten Djokovic in a major.

Djokovic has never had such a mental burden to overcome because everyone after him just hasn't been up to par. However, I do remember him not looking so confident when he was up against Stan.