Djokovic has the most wins over GOATs and is 2 wins away from passing Lendl for the most wins over ATGs
- Thread starter junkieballer
- Start date
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
There cannot be GOATs, GOAT as greatest of all times can only be one. Also, Murray is no ATG, but of course this would mean that Novak would lose 25 wins in the second category, which you could never let happen.
gamelovergold
Hall of Fame
Murray is not ATG no matter who lose what.
3 slam winner is not a ATG level player .
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
messiahrobins
G.O.A.T.
LOL. Federer and Rafa has always been a debate about who is GOAT, fans lean to Federer, pros lean to Nadal. Nobody thinks Djokovic is, i thought Sinner perfectly and subtly explained why as well.
messiahrobins
G.O.A.T.
In big matches Rafa used to always hurt Djokovic with that FHDTL...he rarely would bring it out on the regular tour at M1000 level and below.It was epic AF
GoatNo1
Legend
of course it can, just not at the same time. it s the GOAT (no1e) and ex GOATs (fed, sampras, borg, laver)
and muzza is the ATG border. slams are not everything. he has YE#1, WTF, is OG GOAT with 2 golds, 14 masters, 20 big titles46 titles.
he si 1 of just 19 players who finished season as no1
only 15 players was longer no1 han him
only 15 players has won more slams then him in OE
he won WTF ans is OG GOAT
he is no12 in big titles and no15 in all titles
and he played in big4 era
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CyBorg
Legend
If this is truly is your metric for greatness, then go and find the actual data on how many times the likes of Laver, Rosewall and Gonzales played against each trust. Trust me, their respective number of wins is much higher than 58.
Before the open era, professional players played against one another constantly. This is probably an undercount, but it is known that Rosewall and Laver played each other at least 165 times, with Laver winning 90 matches. That's just the two of them.
All things considered,your criteria is pretty arbitrary. Borg winning a few times against old Laver and Rosewall is an indication of what exactly? And this matters more than his wins against Lendl, Connors and McEnroe?
Before the open era, professional players played against one another constantly. This is probably an undercount, but it is known that Rosewall and Laver played each other at least 165 times, with Laver winning 90 matches. That's just the two of them.
All things considered,your criteria is pretty arbitrary. Borg winning a few times against old Laver and Rosewall is an indication of what exactly? And this matters more than his wins against Lendl, Connors and McEnroe?
messiahrobins
G.O.A.T.
It's a few days before Christmas, tennis season is over, and here and on X Djokovic fans still trying to claim their favourite is GOAT lmao. Its beyond tragic now really as on X i am pretty sure some of the accounts are actually on the Djokovic payroll.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
junkieballer
Hall of Fame
If Murray Is not ATG because he has 3 Slams, Rosewall, Laver, Borg and Sampras are not GOATs because they have 8, 11, 11, 14 Slams way less than Big3s.
This would put Djokovic even more far ahead of everyone else in the category of wins over GOATs.
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Imagine constantly needing to contextualise the winningest career. Guilty conscience, much?
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
Borg, Sampras, Laver were the best of their era, so they could qualify as GOAT candidates at least as you cannot really distinguish between eras (I would personally rule out Borg and Pete to be fair).
junkieballer
Hall of Fame
Murray is the fourth best of a 24 years period (2000-23), so he qualifies as ATG.
If Borg/Sampras are GOATs, Murray is ATG. If Borg/Sampras are not GOATs, Murray is not ATG.
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junkieballer
Hall of Fame
It's not guilty conscience. It's that I have a lot of free time.
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
we kinda understood that...
Nobody thinks Djokovic? I think Djokovic! You think I bought your propaganda, did you?
ghostofMecir
Legend
This list just underscores how unique of a situation Federer faced, i.e., facing not one but TWO GOATs in the very next generation AND the game had changed drastically since when he grew up learning the game making his racket and one-hander detriments. Federer has won almost as many matches vs. GOATs 5+ years younger as every other single player in Open Era history combined.
@vive le beau jeu !
@Jonas78
@metsman
@Gazelle
Open Era Matches won vs.GOATs 5+ years younger (Gonzales, Rosewall, Laver, Borg, Sampras, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic):
Federer, 39 (Nadal became a threat when Federer was 24 and Djokovic when Federer was 26
Connors, 10
Gonzales, 9
Becker, 7
Edberg, 6
Laver, 3
Rosewall, 0 (6 if we go down to 4+ years age difference)
Agassi, 3
Lendl, 3
Wilander, 1
Djokovic, 0 (If Carlos and Sinner become GOATs, then it’s 9 wins. NOTE: Carlos and Sinner became threats when Djokovic was already 35 years old)
Nadal, 0 (If Carlos and Sinner become GOATs, then it’s 5 wins. NOTE: Carlos and Sinner became threats when Djokovic was already 36 years old)
Murray, 0 (If Carlos and Sinner become GOATs, then it’s 2 wins)
Open Era matches won against ATGs 5+ years younger (GOATs + Connors, McEnroe, Lendl, Wilander, Becker, Edberg, Agassi, Murray, Alcaraz, Sinner):
Federer, 53
Connors, 43
Lendl, 33
McEnroe, 18
Gonzalez, 9
Edberg, 9
Djokovic, 9
Borg, 7
Nadal, 5
Laver, 3
Agassi, 3
Wilander, 3
Rosewall, 1 (7 if we move threshold to 4+ years younger)
Sampras, 0
Murray, 0
Alcaraz, 0
Sinner, 0
junkieballer
Hall of Fame
Matches against GOATs of similar age:
Djokovic 60
Nadal 60
Federer 0
Federer had the luck of not having another GOAT in his gen.
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ghostofMecir
Legend
matches against similar aged opponents happens when you're in your prime and peak when there aren't changes/evolutions in play style/court/racket technology. Besides, Federer wound up playing more matches against two players five and six years younger than he is then most players play against players of their own generation.
junkieballer
Hall of Fame
Whatever makes you sleep well at night
ghostofMecir
Legend
The response of somebody who has no argument, of course.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
And in every tournament played in Australia, Canada and the USA in 2022.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Something is wrong here.
This kind of threads should only be used to make Federer look awful.
junkieballer
Hall of Fame
My argument is that Djokovic had 18 wins over GOATs, 31 wins over ATGs and 60 matches against GOATs of his own gen more than than Federer.
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My count is 19 slam wins over Federer, Nadal, Murray, del Potro, Thiem & Medvedev. The last three one each.
And 5 straight easy ones at the end.
