Djokovic has won every significant tournament. Twice.

[dr325i]

2nd Cincinnati was actually not in Cincinnati so doesn't count

and also one of those WImbledons was under closed roof -- not traditional, scratch it. Back to 20-20-18
Nadal was injured in all H2H losses
Federer too old in all of them
There was actually the Big Two all along -- Novak and Murray just tagged along all this time

 

[Jai]

How about Davis Cup -- why don't thy include that one too??
Has no lower significance (tennis-wise) than the Olympics

. And ATP cup too, then.

 

[dr325i]

. And ATP cup too, then.

Forgot about that one too.
It is very clear why Olympics, the patriotic significance event, are included in the total count.

 

[Hitman]

You’re a funny guy roysid, I like you. That’s why I’m going to mute you last

Commando

 

[zvelf]

Commando

The most underrated Ahnuld movie after Conan the Barbarian.

 

[duaneeo]

This is like saying the Canada Masters which alternated between Montreal and Toronto, doesn't count if won in the other city.

Is the Western & Southern Open now alternating between Cincinnati and New York (like Canada has alternated between Montreal and Toronto for nearly 40 years)?

 

[Jai]

Is the Western & Southern Open now alternating between Cincinnati and New York (like Canada has alternated between Montreal and Toronto for nearly 40 years)?

How is that even relevant? It IS the Western and Southern open. Novak won it twice. The fervent and desperate desire to asterisk it shows the motive behind it, not the substance of the objection.

 

[Dedans Penthouse]

I dont smoke. Very anti smoking. Its why i dislike Jelena. She smokes i believe. Gross.

Donna Vekic's smoking - it's why I don't dislike her.

https://flic.kr/p/BtVcZy

 

[duaneeo]

How is that even relevant?

I guess it isn't. Hell, lets play the Western & Southern Open in Miami this year. But hey, we can't leave Cincinnati hanging, so Shanghai can be played there. Next year, I'm going to suggest Monte Carlo be played at Hamburg. This should help Federer finally win Monte Carlo. And how about playing Rome at Madrid?

 

[Jai]

I guess it isn't. Hell, lets play the Western & Southern Open in Miami this year. But hey, we can't leave Cincinnati hanging, so Shanghai can be played there. Next year, I'm going to suggest Monte Carlo be played at Hamburg. This should help Federer finally win Monte Carlo. And how about playing Rome at Madrid?

the amount of effort you put in to deny a champ has won an event twice.....

 

[duaneeo]

the amount of effort you put in to deny a champ has won an event twice.....

The amount of effort you put to claim otherwise...

 

[Jai]

The amount of effort you put to claim otherwise...

I am not claiming otherwise, my friend. The ATP does so, per their records. You don't like it, take it up with them. I would rather take their word for it than yours.

 

[Biotic]

the amount of effort you put in to deny a champ has won an event twice.....

That person has been hating on Djoker for years obviously, you shouldn't care about it at all.

 

[duaneeo]

That person has been hating on Djoker for years obviously, you shouldn't care about it at all.

Lol calling this "hating". As I said in an earlier post, if Miami had been played in New York and Rafa won, all you Nole fans would be agreeing with me in saying Rafa still hasn't officially won Miami.

 

[Jai]

Lol calling this "hating". As I said in an earlier post, if Miami had been played in New York and Rafa won, all you Nole fans would be agreeing with me in saying Rafa still hasn't officially won Miami.

As a fan of both Novak and Rafa in that order, I CERTAINLY would have said nothing of the kind you're claiming. And AFAIK, neither would the vast majority of Novak fans. It just makes no sense.

Taking the entire fanbase as a monolith based on what a few fringe people say is pointless- by that token, there are fringe fans in the Fed and Rafa fanbases too, who spin wild theories and asterisks.

 

[Zetty]

I said "significant." The Olympics don't even award points.

Olympics don't award points, it just awards GOATs

 

[duaneeo]

As a fan of both Novak and Rafa in that order, I CERTAINLY would have said nothing of the kind you're claiming. And AFAIK, neither would the vast majority of Novak fans.

 

[Jai]

anyway, realistic of you that you didn't claim YOU were a balanced poster

 

[TMF]

How about Davis Cup -- why don't thy include that one too??
Has no lower significance (tennis-wise) than the Olympics

Totally different event. Again it's like comparing apples-oranges. The closest to Davis Cup is Laver Cup and it's due to the format.

In respect to each sport, Olympic Games values every event equally, which means taking home a gold for his country by winning either in individual or team competition is the same.

 

[Tony48]

Lol calling this "hating". As I said in an earlier post, if Miami had been played in New York and Rafa won, all you Nole fans would be agreeing with me in saying Rafa still hasn't officially won Miami.

Cincinnati was played in New York to limit travel between Cincy and The U.S. Open (because of this little thing called the coronavirus pandemic). Otherwise, it probably would have been cancelled or post-poned (like Indian Wells). Why the hell would Miami be played in New York?

Can you please take a moment to think for a second?

 

[duaneeo]

Cincinnati was played in New York to limit travel between Cincy and The U.S. Open (because of this little thing called the coronavirus pandemic). Otherwise, it probably would have been cancelled or post-poned (like Indian Wells). Why the hell would Miami be played in New York?

Can you please take a moment to think for a second?

LOL. Look up the definition of 'gist'.

 

[Tony48]

LOL. Look up the definition of 'gist'.

I can't speak for everyone, but if Nadal won a tournament that was re-located, the adults would accept it.

 

[roysid]

You’re a funny guy roysid, I like you. That’s why I’m going to mute you last

He he .. thanks

 

[duaneeo]

I can't speak for everyone, but if Nadal won a tournament that was re-located, the adults would accept it.

You're still missing the point. Winning all 9 Masters was difficult because every player (for whatever reason) found it difficult to win at a particular Masters or two. For Novak, winning at Cincinnati was his nemesis. But he did so in 2018, became the only player in tennis history to win the Grand Masters, and all the boasting by his fans was deserved. But you Nole fans are boasting as if he again accomplished this task. Officially yes, but with nemesis Cincinnati temporarily replaced with New York, actually no.

The same would be for, say, Federer winning nemesis Rome that was temporarily moved to another venue/city; or Nadal winning nemesis Miami that was temporarily moved; or Murray winning relocated nemesis Indian Wells.

 

[NoleFam]

You're still missing the point. Winning all 9 Masters was difficult because every player (for whatever reason) found it difficult to win at a particular Masters or two. For Novak, winning at Cincinnati was his nemesis. But he did so in 2018, became the only player in tennis history to win the Grand Masters, and all the boasting by his fans was deserved. But you Nole fans are boasting as if he again accomplished this task. Officially yes, but with nemesis Cincinnati temporarily replaced with New York, actually no.

The same would be for, say, Federer winning nemesis Rome that was temporarily moved to another venue/city; or Nadal winning nemesis Miami that was temporarily moved; or Murray winning relocated nemesis Indian Wells.

I don't understand what's there to argue about? Even if we exclude the one from NY, he still won the other 8 at least twice. All of them. Fedal still aren't close to this. Federer has 3 that he only won 1 time or 0 times and Nadal has 4. Even if it was played in Cincy, he would have played the same draw on the same type of high medium hardcourt. What is the chance the result would be different?

 

[Tony48]

You're still missing the point. Winning all 9 Masters was difficult because every player (for whatever reason) found it difficult to win at a particular Masters or two. For Novak, winning at Cincinnati was his nemesis. But he did so in 2018, became the only player in tennis history to win the Grand Masters, and all the boasting by his fans was deserved. But you Nole fans are boasting as if he again accomplished this task. Officially yes, but with nemesis Cincinnati temporarily replaced with New York, actually no.

The same would be for, say, Federer winning nemesis Rome that was temporarily moved to another venue/city; or Nadal winning nemesis Miami that was temporarily moved; or Murray winning relocated nemesis Indian Wells.

"Officially" yes but "actually" no. I don't even know what you're arguing now. That they didn't literally win in the geographical location of the previous year? And that somehow is relevant even though the tournament was officially moved?

The tournament organizers decide where their tournaments are hosted. Cincinnati was in New York this time because of Covid. Djokovic won Cincinnati.

 

[mr tonyz]

It's the same tournament because everyone says and recognizes that it is. Exceptional circumstances warranted the tournament being moved. It was the same surface, same climate, same everything else except location. It's not an every day thing where tournaments are relocated. Stop being a contrarian.

The summer Olympics are officially held every four years, but the upcoming games won't hold true to that official standard. Are they not the summer games because they're being held 5 years after 2020 instead of four?

How can you say Cincinnati & Flushing Meadows share the same climate? Flushing Meadows is near the coastline where there's more wind. Cincinnati is more central. Plus it was a different venue.

As for court surface , check this out ...


From 1978 to 2019, the US Open was played on a hard court surface called Pro DecoTurf. It is a multi-layer cushioned surface and classified by the International Tennis Federation as medium-fast.[45] Each August before the start of the tournament, the courts are resurfaced.[46] In March 2020, the USTA announced that Laykold would become the new court surface supplier beginning with the 2020 tournament

https://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/a...ld_selected_as_new_us_open_court_surface.html (copy & paste)


As for the Summer Games well are they still held @ the same venue during the same season? If so all i'd say the difference was "2020 Summer Games Medalist" vs "2021 Summer Games Medalist" with the only real difference being the conditions where there'd be reduced or near zero crowds in the stadium in 2021 vs the 2020 'standard edition' which would mess with outcomes to a degree as some athletes would perform either better or worse under the new "crowdless" conditions

 

[mr tonyz]

I don't understand what's there to argue about? Even if we exclude the one from NY, he still won the other 8 at least twice. All of them. Fedal still aren't close to this. Federer has 3 that he only won 1 time or 0 times and Nadal has 4. Even if it was played in Cincy, he would have played the same draw on the same type of high medium hardcourt. What is the chance the result would be different?

Something called history suggests that Djoker was nowhere near a formality @ an event he had only won once previously throughout the entirety of his career. Is it really this hard to understand?

& what does Fedal have to do with this? Absolutely nothing. He still has a more complete resume than both of them @ M1000 level, because it's that obvious that he does.

 

[NoleFam]

Something called history suggests that Djoker was nowhere near a formality @ an event he had only won once previously throughout the entirety of his career. Is it really this hard to understand?

& what does Fedal have to do with this? Absolutely nothing. He still has a more complete resume than both of them @ M1000 level, because it's that obvious that he does.

Stopped by Murray and Federer in 5 finals, and neither were going to be a problem there. So again, what is the chance the result is going to be different in Cincy compared to NY?

Because he brought up Federer and Nadal. That's why.

 

[NoleIsBoat]

Technically yes Novak has won them all twice, but I see the point about the 2nd Cincy title. Cincinatti plays on a specific surface with a different climate, altitude etc to New York so it brings its own challenge.

It’s a moot point anyway, since neither Federer or Nadal have come close to winning them all once.

 

[mr tonyz]

Stopped by Murray and Federer in 5 finals, and neither were going to be a problem there. So again, what is the chance the result is going to be different in Cincy compared to NY?

Because he brought up Federer and Nadal. That's why.

5 finals.

How about every other time he entered the tournament?

Why go by the finals he made & ignore all of his other earlier round losses to "non-Murrderer" opponents??

12-08-2019

Cincinnati Masters

Hard

SF

L

Daniil Medvedev (9) Rank 8 Elo 2150 (+18) d. Novak Djokovic (1) Rank 1 Elo 2415 (-18)

3-6 6-3 6-3

10-08-2014

Cincinnati Masters

Hard

R16

L

Tommy Robredo (16) Rank 20 Elo 2062 (+19) d. Novak Djokovic (1) Rank 1 Elo 2536 (-18)

7-6(6) 7-5

11-08-2013

Cincinnati Masters

Hard

QF

L

John Isner Rank 22 Elo 2065 (+20) d. Novak Djokovic (1) Rank 1 Elo 2471 (-19)

7-6(5) 3-6 7-5

15-08-2010

Cincinnati Masters

Hard

QF

L

Andy Roddick (9) Rank 13 Elo 2205 (+12) d. Novak Djokovic (2) Rank 3 Elo 2281 (-13)

6-4 7-5

13-08-2007

Cincinnati Masters

Hard

R32

L

Carlos Moya Rank 19 Elo 2071 (+15) d. Novak Djokovic (4) Rank 3 Elo 2250 (-14)

6-4 6-1

14-08-2006

Cincinnati Masters

Hard

R32

L

Florent Serra Rank 52 Elo 1874 (+18) d. Novak Djokovic Rank 24 Elo 2034 (-14)

6-4 6-4

15-08-2005

Cincinnati Masters

Hard

R64

L

Fernando Gonzalez Rank 18 Elo 2062 (+3) d. Novak Djokovic (Q) Rank 97 Elo 1789 (-5)

3-6 7-6(7) 6-4

 

[roysid]

This is like saying the Canada Masters which alternated between Montreal and Toronto, doesn't count if won in the other city.

Both Montreal and Toronto are in Canada so canada masters is right. Unless u know quebec wants to break out. Cant count that out too in future

 

[Jai]

Both Montreal and Toronto are in Canada so canada masters is right. Unless u know quebec wants to break out. Cant count that out too in future

Ok, but same logic then applies to Western and Southern Open which was officially held at NY instead of Cincinnati. Why on earth should an asterisk be conjured up about Novak's second victory claiming change of city?

As another poster has said above, this is actually a moot point as the other 2 of the Big 3 haven't won completed a full slate of all the Masters even once.

 

[NoleFam]

5 finals.

How about every other time he entered the tournament?

Why go by the finals he made & ignore all of his other earlier round losses to "non-Murrderer" opponents??

12-08-2019

Cincinnati Masters

Hard

SF

L

Daniil Medvedev (9) Rank 8 Elo 2150 (+18) d. Novak Djokovic (1) Rank 1 Elo 2415 (-18)

3-6 6-3 6-3

10-08-2014

Cincinnati Masters

Hard

R16

L

Tommy Robredo (16) Rank 20 Elo 2062 (+19) d. Novak Djokovic (1) Rank 1 Elo 2536 (-18)

7-6(6) 7-5

11-08-2013

Cincinnati Masters

Hard

QF

L

John Isner Rank 22 Elo 2065 (+20) d. Novak Djokovic (1) Rank 1 Elo 2471 (-19)

7-6(5) 3-6 7-5

15-08-2010

Cincinnati Masters

Hard

QF

L

Andy Roddick (9) Rank 13 Elo 2205 (+12) d. Novak Djokovic (2) Rank 3 Elo 2281 (-13)

6-4 7-5

13-08-2007

Cincinnati Masters

Hard

R32

L

Carlos Moya Rank 19 Elo 2071 (+15) d. Novak Djokovic (4) Rank 3 Elo 2250 (-14)

6-4 6-1

14-08-2006

Cincinnati Masters

Hard

R32

L

Florent Serra Rank 52 Elo 1874 (+18) d. Novak Djokovic Rank 24 Elo 2034 (-14)

6-4 6-4

15-08-2005

Cincinnati Masters

Hard

R64

L

Fernando Gonzalez Rank 18 Elo 2062 (+3) d. Novak Djokovic (Q) Rank 97 Elo 1789 (-5)

3-6 7-6(7) 6-4

If you have to dig up results from 2005 and 2006, then obviously you're grasping at straws.

 

[duaneeo]

Even if it was played in Cincy, he would have played the same draw on the same type of high medium hardcourt. What is the chance the result would be different?

Medvedev (actually) won Cincinnati in 2019 (beating Nole in the semis).

 

[mr tonyz]

If you have to dig up results from 2005 and 2006, then obviously you're grasping at straws.

Djoker was ranked higher in 6 of his 7 losses so even if i give you a pass on Gonzo in '05 that leaves me with 6 different players that Djoker lost to whilst ranked higher.

I just took a second look @ that result & it seems Djoker was playing well enough to beat third seed Gonzo after winning the first set & losing the second set breaker to 7! Most likely had match-points for all we know. I am kind & will still grant you a free pass here however!

No way do you get away with Djoker's '06 loss to who?? Florent Serra?? ranked 52 when Djoker was ranked 24 lol. "You can't be serious!!" !!

You provided FedRay as your evidence , i countered with 6 other 100% losses to lower ranked opposition as proof that in no way was Djoker a lock to win 2020 Cinci' played in Cinci'.

 

[mr tonyz]

Medvedev (actually) won Cincinnati in 2019 (beating Nole in the semis).

My post had this already covered

Grasping @ straws ...

 

[Tshooter]

Spoiler

Newport | Overview | ATP Tour | Tennis

Official tennis tournament profile of Newport on the ATP Tour. Featuring news, who played, past champions, prize money, and more.

www.atptour.com

 

[Jai]

Djoker was ranked higher in 6 of his 7 losses so even if i give you a pass on Gonzo in '05 that leaves me with 6 different players that Djoker lost to whilst ranked higher.

No way do you get away with Djoker's '06 loss to who?? Florent Serra?? ranked 52 when Djoker was ranked 24 lol. "You can't be serious!!" !!

You provided FedRay as your evidence , i countered with 6 other 100% losses to lower ranked opposition as proof that in no way was Djoker a lock to win 2020 Cinci' played in Cinci'.

I don't get what this debate is about really. Novak has won the Western and Southern Open twice. Ok, one was held at NY and not at Cincinnati. If you'll are so bothered by it, write to the ATP to put a small note at the bottom of their tables showing "big titles", to this effect. I mean, what does this arcane hair splitting even matter, when neither of the other 2 of the Big 3 have made a complete sweep of all the Masters even once, let alone twice?

 

[mr tonyz]

I don't get what this debate is about really. Novak has won the Western and Southern Open twice. Ok, one was held at NY and not at Cincinnati. If you'll are so bothered by it, write to the ATP to put a small note at the bottom of their tables showing "big titles", to this effect. I mean, what does this arcane hair splitting even matter, when neither of the other 2 of the Big 3 have made a complete sweep of all the Masters even once, let alone twice?

When it comes to this whole slot business with M1000s , i have a long history of debunking these 7/9 claims for Fed etc. Because there's no real sense in much of it.

Fed has won Hamburg + Madrid but they only count as 1 because the 'slot' just rotated Hamburg to a 500 'slot' & Madrid Indoors tagged in it's place reverting to clay whilst Shanghai tagged in to slot #8.

Fun fact, between Hamburg/Madrid Clay & Madrid Indoors/Shanghai all 4 distinct M1000s , they only count as 2 out of Fed's 7.

Makes sense right?

Because you know slots ...

But then when it's the other way around when Fed won 2009 Madrid in Slot # 3 (which is now occupied as Rome) it doesn't count. Well because he hasn't won Rome.

Yeah but he's won Hamburg & Madrid Indoors but they just conveniently don't count.

So which is it? Slots or tournaments won? Either way it's impossible for Fed to have 7/9.

p.s i love these debates lol.

 

[Soul_Evisceration]

You didn't explain anything. I explained that there's barely any history behind it, nothing separates Olympic tennis from other tennis tournaments, players have literally skipped the Olympics saying that it isn't a priority (tell me, has any athlete in the history of the Olympics ever said that other than in tennis?), and it offers no points.

You countered with nothing (repeating your claim doesn't act as an explanation).

You keep saying that it's prestigious and can offer no explanation why. Because it's not prestigious.

It's prestigious because Murray won it which is one of his idol.

Had Thiem been his idol, he wouldn't give a sh1t about the tournament like Thiem does.

It only validates your favorite player or not depending on their mindset.

 

[Hitman]

The amount of effort you put to claim otherwise...

When Cincinnati Masters event is played this year, Djokovic will be going in as the defending champion, not Medvedev. He is the two time winner of the event regardless of what court it was played on. Miami moved from Key Biscayne to a parking lot and Federer won in both places and has now 4 titles to his name....and before you say - well its still in Miami, key in mind the court itself is competely different. You can have a clay court and grass court next to each other in the same club and they would play nothing a like. Whatever is considered the official placement of the tournament is what counts.

This is official standing by the ATP governing body. You don't have to like it, but that is still the official standing, that is what will be seen in the record books - Novak Djokovic a two time winner of the Cincinnati Masters Event.

 

[UnforcedTerror]

When Cincinnati Masters event is played this year, Djokovic will be going in as the defending champion, not Medvedev. He is the two time winner of the event regardless of what court it was played on. Miami moved from Key Biscayne to a parking lot and Federer won in both places and has now 4 titles to his name....and before you say - well its still in Miami, key in mind the court itself is competely different. You can have a clay court and grass court next to each other in the same club and they would play nothing a like. Whatever is considered the official placement of the tournament is what counts.

This is official standing by the ATP governing body. You don't have to like it, but that is still the official standing, that is what will be seen in the record books - Novak Djokovic a two time winner of the Cincinnati Masters Event.

I think the guy is just trolling or being salty as usual when it comes to Djokovic.

 

[Hitman]

I think the guy is just trolling or being salty as usual when it comes to Djokovic.

At the end of the day, it's his opinion against an official governing body's statement. I'd go with the official statement myself.

 

[NoleFam]

Djoker was ranked higher in 6 of his 7 losses so even if i give you a pass on Gonzo in '05 that leaves me with 6 different players that Djoker lost to whilst ranked higher.

I just took a second look @ that result & it seems Djoker was playing well enough to beat third seed Gonzo after winning the first set & losing the second set breaker to 7! Most likely had match-points for all we know. I am kind & will still grant you a free pass here however!

No way do you get away with Djoker's '06 loss to who?? Florent Serra?? ranked 52 when Djoker was ranked 24 lol. "You can't be serious!!" !!

You provided FedRay as your evidence , i countered with 6 other 100% losses to lower ranked opposition as proof that in no way was Djoker a lock to win 2020 Cinci' played in Cinci'.

Lol. You're actually serious. Djokovic was 18 and 19 in 2005 and 2006 and not a top player so like I said, if you need to include these results to make a point you don't have much of an argument. He wasn't even ranked in the top 20 in 2006 so even if he lost to the #75 player in the world I wouldn't care.

 

[NoleFam]

Medvedev (actually) won Cincinnati in 2019 (beating Nole in the semis).

And Medvedev lost to RBA in 2020.

 

[Deleted member 770948]

Djokovic only won RG because of Nadal's injuries (2016 wrist, 2021 foot).
Djokovic is a PRETENDER.
And he's still failed to capture the slam record.
Epic fail, despite the cheap titles.

 

[Tony48]

Djokovic only won RG because of Nadal's injuries (2016 wrist, 2021 foot).
Djokovic is a PRETENDER.
And he's still failed to capture the slam record.
Epic fail, despite the cheap titles.

It only took two weeks but you finally invented an injury for Nadal.

 

[GabeT]

More pearls from our prognosticator in chief

Djokovic only won RG because of Nadal's injuries (2016 wrist, 2021 foot).
Djokovic is a PRETENDER.
And he's still failed to capture the slam record.
Epic fail, despite the cheap titles.

looks like Djokovic will be stuck on 17 slams for eternity, while Nadal moves toward 17 French Opens and 25+ slams.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Djokovic only won RG because of Nadal's injuries (2016 wrist, 2021 foot).
Djokovic is a PRETENDER.
And he's still failed to capture the slam record.
Epic fail, despite the cheap titles.

How come Rafa only has 1 Australia open title then? What’s your excuse for Rafa not getting a double career slam?