Djokovic is 16 years older than Alcaraz and 14 years older than Sinner

vive le beau jeu ! said:
every day, we learn things we couldn't possibly have guessed without such groundbreaking threads: TTW is a true treasure trove of enlightenment :giggle:

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Yeah, just a few days ago I learned that 18 aces is the USO men's record and that Fed hit 29 2nd serve aces against Roddick in 2007 USO.

TTW is the gift that keeps on giving.
 
Raz and Sinner are very legit players.

Some people just which they showed up earlier which I think is more the think they want to get at?
 
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zagor said:
Yep because he was younger and had more faith in his abilities, stamina, movement (well everything). He also downright out-clutched Nadal in 2007 Wimbledon final for example.

Djokodal are mentally stronger than Fed but the difference is vastly exaggerated.
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Rightly Said Federer was mentally tough that’s why he was able to withstand many defeats and still come up with solutions to overcome them. He finally succeeded vs Nadal but unable to do it vs Djokovic despite coming very close to winning Wimbledon.
 
I love when people say things don't exist in a vacuum (which I agree with, obviously), but then spend most of their time here loosely mentioning things like "prime" and "peak" as if they are real pieces of data and don't pose a problem.
 
I acknowledge Djokovic as the GOAT and have no problems admitting he might have even overcome true ATGs if they came his way during the so-called vacuum era, so I might not even agree with what some of the Fed fans are claiming.

THAT SAID, despite not fully agreeing with everything the Fed fans have to say, I do not think OP completely understands the nuances of the "age gap" / "vacuum era" arguments.

1. A 6-year age gap WHEN COMPETING for the slam record is very different from any age gap when both parties have nothing at stake lol. Their main claim is that Fed was disadvantaged in their later match-ups being 6 years his senior, impacting his h2h and also the slam total, whereas now what Sincaraz has been taking away from Djokovic now that he is running away with the slam title is pretty change in comparison. Context and the IMPACT of each win matters when you consider their match-ups.

2. As mentioned by various posters, before this current point where we're supposed to feel sorry for Novak, according to subscribers of the "vacuum era" he has already escaped thumpings by the ENTIRE 90s gen because THEY ARE SO DANG WEAK, in other words, the people who are supposed to be 6 years younger than him. Federer didn't have the same luxury as he still had Djokodal breathing down his neck during his 30s till his retirement. Are we supposed to feel sorry for Djokovic for FINALLY losing when the reason he is losing now is because an ENTIRE generation failed to beat him? Note that I am not completely subscribed to the idea and do not intend to morally take away any of Novak's slams. But I don't think it's contentious that the 90s gen is objectively weak, and so the fact the 6-year-his-junior beating didn't happen and the 12-year-his-junior beating happened instead isn't something we're supposed to feel sorry for - it's probably something Djokovic himself would have welcomed.
 
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Jonas78 said:
No sane Fed-fan is comparing Djoko-Sincaraz with Fed-Djoko. We just blame the 90s gen for being so incrediby bad. Now Sincaraz are taking advantage of the same "problem".

As ive said plenty of times, the one tennis record that never will be broken is a decade of players only winning 2 slams.
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Gotta love talk tennis and those spoiled arm chair puppet comments like these.
They just weren’t as good as the big 3 and Murray. Zero respect for their accomplishments.
The big 3 were another level physically and mentally and did it deep into their 30s. Rare.
 
Kralingen said:
The relevance is you started a salty thread complaining about younger guys beating your favorite player and then brought up Federer without a hint of irony.

How do you not feel even the slightest bit of empathy for Federer fans, now going through this phenomenon yourself? Take how you feel now and compare it to Federer fans a decade ago. That’s how Fed fans felt for the entire 2010s!
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because djoker is older than fed was in the 2010’s. i’m not salty/bitter because djokovic has already completed tennis. everything else after the olympics is just icing on the cake.
 
ChrisJR3264 said:
Gotta love talk tennis and those spoiled arm chair puppet comments like these.
They just weren’t as good as the big 3 and Murray. Zero respect for their accomplishments.
The big 3 were another level physically and mentally and did it deep into their 30s. Rare.
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The best players of the 90s decade was Thiem & Medvedev. Find me another decade with worse top players. Id even say most of the second tier players of other decades are clearly better than them, like Stan/Murray of the 2010s, or Roddick/Hewitt of the 2000s.

And if we are blaming Big3+Murray, it hasnt helped the 90s gen much that Nadal, Federer and Murray have retired, and Nole is 38, hardly playing masters anymore. They are already completely overtaken by the 00s gen, with Mensik, Draper, Shelton, Sinner, Alcaraz winning almost all masters/majors.
 
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ChrisJR3264 said:
Gotta love talk tennis and those spoiled arm chair puppet comments like these.
They just weren’t as good as the big 3 and Murray. Zero respect for their accomplishments.
The big 3 were another level physically and mentally and did it deep into their 30s. Rare.
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It’s a big problem when an entire decade couldn’t produce a single multi slam winner.

Them not even being as good as Murray is tragic, not good.
 
mike danny said:
The gap between Djokovic and Musetti is 15 years and Djokovic is still easily handling him.

It’s almost like the quality of players matters.

Thiem is 6 years younger and went 5-2 against Djokovic and pushed him to 5 at the AO. Imagine if he were actually an ATG
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Last time I checked, Musetti is not an ATG level player.

Well of course the quality of players matter.

And Medvedev is 9 years younger and went 4-2 against him. What is your point?
 
When Federer came into Tennis he had the Biggest Weapon of all - A powerful Forehand and an all court game. It took a Left hander like Nadal to make his backhand a weakness. Djokovic almost came up with a game to beat Federer after Federer Won 16 Majors. Federer could have won easily 25 Majors if not for 2 ATG Youngsters. Their Rivalry became too Intense that next gen players struggled to match their quality of tennis. You cannot blame Djokovic for that but its the slam race between the big 3 that made them push the limits of the game which others struggled to match.
 
Genie Of the Bank said:
Lets not kid our self's , without corona bans and cancellations Novak would have 26 slams. 90 % favorite to win 2020 Wimbledon (Fed ws out with injury) and 2022 AO (Rafa couldn't win a set from him on hard for eight years by that point in time) .
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If Alcaraz and Sinner emerged 7-8 years earlier then would Novak win Wimbledon even if it was held in 2020 ?

He would not have even if it was held.

Sinner born in 1994 and Alcaraz born in 1996, that would be the scenario which @Kralingen meant
 
Sinner and Alcaraz were trained from their childhood how to play tennis based on the game that was developed by the big 3. their level of tennis could not have been higher if big 3 never existed. so sinner and alcaraz cannot become strong players if they were born in 90s.

90s players appeared weak as they encountered a shock when exposed to big 3. 2000s players had time to understand the game of big 3 and only 2 could come up with solutions.
 
Razer said:
If Alcaraz and Sinner emerged 7-8 years earlier then would Novak win Wimbledon even if it was held in 2020 ?

He would not have even if it was held.

Sinner born in 1994 and Alcaraz born in 1996, that would be the scenario which @Kralingen meant
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We can not speculate about the age difference, but only on form and health of a certain player at specific year . Djokovic was healthy and in great form in 2020 and in beginning of 2022 . He would leveled the field at Wimbledon 2020 and probably edge out Nadal in four sets at AO 2022 ( eight straight years without losing a set to Rafa on hard courts by that point ).
 
The age gaps definitely aren't comparable. But I consider it a privilege that he is still making the business end of Slams at his age. Sinner being around doesn't help things but Djokovic was in that same position for many years. And he is still one of the best in the world. The Wimbledon cancellation, throatgate and having to miss the hard court Slams in 2022 were far more upsetting events as far as I am concerned.
 
Razer said:
No he is not, infact he is lucky to be born with Djokovic in 1987. That helps him avoiding his peak coinciding with the peaks of Federer and Nadal.
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Although I agree that the general view (Murray would be an ATG in any other era) is wrong, he did win 3 slams, OG, and 14 masters, which puts him clearly ahead of players that usually are seen as tier 2.
 
Kralingen said:
How do you not see that he’s incredibly lucky they’re 16 and 14 years younger rather than, say, 6 and 4?

Imagine a peak Sinner and Alcaraz coming into their primes in the late 2010s. Not a single chance he gets to 24 in that scenario.

Roger had basically his entire 30s taken away by Rafa and Novak until 2017 happened. Novak got to feast on Zverev Medvedev Tsitsipas Ruud and Berrettini. Competition only showed up when he was already 36 years old. Everyone would take that trade off a million times out of a million.
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This. The guy played for more than a decade with not even ONE potential ATG appearing during that time. And Sinner and Alcaraz are nothing close to the big 3 anyway. But yeah, the competition became just a bit tougher after Djokovic enjoyed years of absolute vulturing, and his fans are not complaining about bad luck. :rolleyes:
 
Jonas78 said:
Although I agree that the general view (Murray would be an ATG in any other era) is wrong, he did win 3 slams, OG, and 14 masters, which puts him clearly ahead of players that usually are seen as tier 2.
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No it does not. Tiers are determined by abilites vs the field and also vs the ATGs of those times. Murray has a losing best of sets h2h vs Stan who is an average player. Murray has lower peak level than Safin, Stan, Soderling on HCs and Clay and he lost to Roddick at 2009 wimbledon and that was not even peak Roddick, so this means even on grass Murray's peak is not higher than Roddick.

Murray not in a higher than others, he is of their level.

Look at this, vs Stan he had a losing h2h in BO5



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BrokenGears said:
This literally doesn't matter when you face the two other greatest player of the sports for most of your entire career. Like what are we talking about here lmao? This is an absolutely horrendous argument.


Again, what is the genuine relevance of this when Djokovic faced Nadal and Federer for most of his career?

Who are the older ATGs Federer and Nadal really had comparable rivalries with? Agassi and Sampras? Seriously?

That's what you're not getting. The Sinner/Alcaraz dynamic with Djokovic is incomparable here. Djokovic is forced to act as a third wheel once again, something he has no business doing
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Lmao at "most of your entire career". Yeah, tell me when did he face prime Federer and Nadal in 2014-2016, leave alone in 2021-2023. But hey, I seriously heard some Djokovic fans say that even DO 2023 was won during the Nadal era, because Nadal still haven't retired.
 
Anybody who thinks age gap between Novak vs Sinner alcaraz is same as age gap between fedrer and Novak is nothing else but day dreaming.
14 16 year gap is too much if you thing physically
Skill wise Novak is still at par with Sinner and alcaraz but his body is failing .
 
BrokenGears said:
It's actually almost offensive when I see Fed fans try to pretend the age gap between Roger and Novak was even close to comparable to what Djokovic is dealing with now.

Yes I am slightly bitter that he''s going to lose fo Alcaraz in max 4 sets. I've been bitter all US Open seeing this geriatric with no meniscus still be able to make the semifinals at his age but having to face Alcaraz and Sinner back to back. .
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I see that what was once straight out labeled an “age excuse” without any context applied now has context.

Players who are 5 years older than their ATG opponents don’t win those slam QF/SF/F matches. They never really have. 5 years, 7 years, 10 years, etc.

SriVan90 said:
If Djokovic was at the same age as Sinner or Alcaraz he would have dominated them completely.
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I see we have come full circle with those pesky hypotheticals.
 
mike danny said:
Yes, Fed was lucky too.

But Nadal was already stopping him as early as 2005, so he didn’t enjoy a long time without the golden gen.

And I’d say is much worse to not have even 1 multi slam winner born after you for 14 years than not have one 6+ slam winner born before you
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Most ATGs in history take Fed's set up over Novak's. It's certainly at least arguable.
 
If they were 6 years apart you think djokovic still get 24 slams? Lmao ridiculous post hahah. Sure alcaraz sinner and Nadal will lose out on a lot of slams too but none of the four would get past 20
 
Kralingen said:
How do you not see that he’s incredibly lucky they’re 16 and 14 years younger rather than, say, 6 and 4?

Imagine a peak Sinner and Alcaraz coming into their primes in the late 2010s. Not a single chance he gets to 24 in that scenario.

Roger had basically his entire 30s taken away by Rafa and Novak until 2017 happened. Novak got to feast on Zverev Medvedev Tsitsipas Ruud and Berrettini. Competition only showed up when he was already 36 years old. Everyone would take that trade off a million times out of a million.
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Well, Federer got to enjoy his last three slams mostly because Djokovic had a tennis elbow! I got a Fedfan admit that for the first time!
 
weakera said:
Imagine if Sinner and Alcaraz were ready enough to play like this in 2023.

Djokovic is the luckiest player of all-time.
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If Sinner & Alcaraz were ready back in 10 years or so, they would take a few slams from Djokovic, but he would take a few from them also.

You can't always get what you want! I wish Djokovic was already in '04-07, a weak era when Federer took 11 out of 12 non-clay slams!

Back in 2023, Carlos was already, he took US a year earlier, sans Djokovic, and WB that year.
 
GoatNo1 said:
muzza had 6-4 vs fed in his era including 6-1 in 3 years period period from cinci 06 upp to cinci 09. AND he had 11-9 at the end of 2013!
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Federer put away Andy starting in 2014 with his nouveau BH, staying undefeated! And everyone else, excluding Djokovic!
 
BrokenGears said:
It's actually almost offensive when I see Fed fans try to pretend the age gap between Roger and Novak was even close to comparable to what Djokovic is dealing with now.

Yes I am slightly bitter that he''s going to lose fo Alcaraz in max 4 sets. I've been bitter all US Open seeing this geriatric with no meniscus still be able to make the semifinals at his age but having to face Alcaraz and Sinner back to back. .
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So we confirm current Alcaraz/Sinner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Djokovic of Wim 18-USO 19
 
Kralingen said:
How do you not see that he’s incredibly lucky they’re 16 and 14 years younger rather than, say, 6 and 4?

Imagine a peak Sinner and Alcaraz coming into their primes in the late 2010s. Not a single chance he gets to 24 in that scenario.
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This is a completely different topic. One thing is, if he had been unluckier back then if that was the age difference, and one is how difficult it is to face them now.


And looking at Wimbledon 2023, where he almost beats both back-to-back if not for a very unusual choke, YEC 2023 where he beat both back-to-back with ease, Olympics 2024, where he beat Alcaraz coming back from injury and AO 2025 where he also beat Alcaraz pretty soundly, I'm not sure if Djokovic was the lucky one or Sinnaraz (at least Alcaraz).
 
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