Djokovic is 16 years older than Alcaraz and 14 years older than Sinner

[The Guru]

But not in today’s setting with increased longevity

Yeah agree to disagree. Also since when do you concede that? Thought you were not a believer in that.

 

[mike danny]

Yeah agree to disagree. Also since when do you concede that? Thought you were not a believer in that.

I mean, it’s clear that players are sticking around for longer, can’t deny what’s in front of me.

I just don’t think it applies to all players. Mostly the truly great ones.

Agree to disagree, I guess. But seeing Djoko’s large window of opportunity from 2014 to 2023, I don’t think Fed’s setting is really the ideal one anymore. Maybe if we had this talk back in 2013, but not in 2025

 

[langley]

How do you not see that he’s incredibly lucky they’re 16 and 14 years younger rather than, say, 6 and 4?

Imagine a peak Sinner and Alcaraz coming into their primes in the late 2010s. Not a single chance he gets to 24 in that scenario.

Roger had basically his entire 30s taken away by Rafa and Novak until 2017 happened. Novak got to feast on Zverev Medvedev Tsitsipas Ruud and Berrettini. Competition only showed up when he was already 36 years old. Everyone would take that trade off a million times out of a million.

Djokovic beats sinner until he (Djokovic) is in 2024 form. He's shown it.

 

[The Guru]

I mean, it’s clear that players are sticking around for longer, can’t deny what’s in front of me.

I just don’t think it applies to all players. Mostly the truly great ones.

Agree to disagree, I guess. But seeing Djoko’s large window of opportunity from 2014 to 2023, I don’t think Fed’s setting is really the ideal one anymore. Maybe if we had this talk back in 2013, but not in 2025

Well I didn't say ideal. Obviously having to play Nadal and Djokovic 90 times is not ideal. What Sinner and Alcaraz have is a lot closer to ideal. I think we can agree on that. Though this could always change if someone rises out of nowhere (please save us Fonseca).

 

[paolo2143]

That doesn't make it right.



if if if

The bottom line is we don't know who does what under older conditions. Most likely Djokovic wins 0 or close to 0 Wimbledon titles.

We do know that Nadal played Djokovic to a standstill in the 5th set in a fish tank on a sunny day.

Lol Borg whose game was built for slower courts, with his incredible topspin shots and speed, movement and endurance , managed to adapt to the much slicker and lower bouncing courts that Wimbledon had in 70's and 80's.

I am 100% certain Novak would have handled it just fine, Rafa on the other hand would definitely have struggled more I think. However, Rafa being Rafa would still gave found a way to win at least one wimbledon no matter what!

 

[btsjungkook]

That doesn't make it right.



if if if

The bottom line is we don't know who does what under older conditions. Most likely Djokovic wins 0 or close to 0 Wimbledon titles.

We do know that Nadal played Djokovic to a standstill in the 5th set in a fish tank on a sunny day.

For all we know Fedal likely don't win any Wimbledons on old grass as well. They all won on the slowed down grass courts.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

How do you not see that he’s incredibly lucky they’re 16 and 14 years younger rather than, say, 6 and 4?

Imagine a peak Sinner and Alcaraz coming into their primes in the late 2010s. Not a single chance he gets to 24 in that scenario.

Roger had basically his entire 30s taken away by Rafa and Novak until 2017 happened. Novak got to feast on Zverev Medvedev Tsitsipas Ruud and Berrettini. Competition only showed up when he was already 36 years old. Everyone would take that trade off a million times out of a million.

A younger Djoko would not have much problems fighting of Sinneraz. If they were only 5-6 years both would have to deal with 2015 Djoko and Raz already with 2011 one. They would lose handily to him and whether they would be able to outlast him that they can beat him once he crosses 30 remains to be seen.

 

[ND-13]

It is so rich and ironic that Nolefam is not satisfied with 2018-23 but wants more of the same .

My Nolefam - we want good tennis, not just inflated records !!

 

[Steve Sassou]

Thiem's style was too wristy risky.

 

[langley]

It is so rich and ironic that Nolefam is not satisfied with 2018-23 but wants more of the same .

My Nolefam - we want good tennis, not just inflated records !!

I want good tennis AND fair sport

 

[Third Serve]

A younger Djoko would not have much problems fighting of Sinneraz. If they were only 5-6 years both would have to deal with 2015 Djoko and Raz already with 2011 one. They would lose handily to him and whether they would be able to outlast him that they can beat him once he crosses 30 remains to be seen.

I don’t think anyone’s really suggesting they’d beat 2015 Djokovic. The main point of contention here would be 2018-2023.

 

[GoatNo1]

Lol

Imagine Novak was still in the form of 2023 now the they would not be so lucky.

No one was luckier than Roger during 03-07 where he had such a very ordinary field against him outside of Rafa on clay.

and before 05 even on clay.

 

[Krish0608]

How do you not see that he’s incredibly lucky they’re 16 and 14 years younger rather than, say, 6 and 4?

Imagine a peak Sinner and Alcaraz coming into their primes in the late 2010s. Not a single chance he gets to 24 in that scenario.

Roger had basically his entire 30s taken away by Rafa and Novak until 2017 happened. Novak got to feast on Zverev Medvedev Tsitsipas Ruud and Berrettini. Competition only showed up when he was already 36 years old. Everyone would take that trade off a million times out of a million.

Couldn’t put it any better. Thank you.

 

[langley]

I don’t think anyone’s really suggesting they’d beat 2015 Djokovic. The main point of contention here would be 2018-2023.

carlos couldn’t beat 24-25 djoker. Post puke/juiced sinner doesn’t even beat 23 djokovic everytime. it’s hard for some people to believe that the big 3 were truly just that good.

 

[onehandbh]

It's actually almost offensive when I see Fed fans try to pretend the age gap between Roger and Novak was even close to comparable to what Djokovic is dealing with now.

Yes I am slightly bitter that he's going to lose fo Alcaraz in max 4 sets. I've been bitter all US Open seeing this geriatric with no meniscus still be able to make the semifinals at his age but having to face Alcaraz and Sinner back to back. .

Plus Sinner and Alcaraz would have easily won the calendar grand slam multiple times if they had played in 1925 with their modern racquet, strings, shoes, and also brought a personal massage therapist.

 

[SriVan90]

Federer won 16 Majors by the time Djokovic became a threat. So Federer had very less pressure over the years to extend his record but failed to do it winning only 4 more.

 

[SriVan90]

Lol Borg whose game was built for slower courts, with his incredible topspin shots and speed, movement and endurance , managed to adapt to the much slicker and lower bouncing courts that Wimbledon had in 70's and 80's.

I am 100% certain Novak would have handled it just fine, Rafa on the other hand would definitely have struggled more I think. However, Rafa being Rafa would still gave found a way to win at least one wimbledon no matter what!

No player in history was as quick and Athletic as Rafa. He could have won more who knows

 

[Incognito]

It's actually almost offensive when I see Fed fans try to pretend the age gap between Roger and Novak was even close to comparable to what Djokovic is dealing with now.

Federer belonged to the generation of players that retire when they are 30. I mean Federer joined the tour in 1997 or something lol.

Djokovic said most players today even those in the top 50 have entourage of 10 people monitoring their health. 16 years will become the norm. Maybe Alcaraz and Sinner will play until they are 45.

 

[mike danny]

Last time I checked, Musetti is not an ATG level player.

Well of course the quality of players matter.

And Medvedev is 9 years younger and went 4-2 against him. What is your point?

Point being I’m not sure it would’ve been better for him to face an ATG 6 years younger instead of 14 or 16 because what we’re seeing now could’ve happened earlier.

 

[mike danny]

Federer won 16 Majors by the time Djokovic became a threat. So Federer had very less pressure over the years to extend his record but failed to do it winning only 4 more.

That pressure came roaring right afterwards

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Yeah let's forget he had a free run due to 90s gen losers and paddded up his count beyond imagination.

 

[gamelovergold]

That pressure came roaring right afterwards

Nadal was always there to keep roger in check . Without Nadal help novak was never catching roger.
Novak took long to break through. 2011 was novak entry in big 3.
Nadal was fighting fedrer from 2005 . Novak and nadal just shut fedrer for 5 years.

 

[SriVan90]

That pressure came roaring right afterwards

He missed quite a few opportunities - 2014 US Open, 2016 Wimbledon, 2019 Choke Wimbledon

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Point being I’m not sure it would’ve been better for him to face an ATG 6 years younger instead of 14 or 16 because what we’re seeing now could’ve happened earlier.

I don’t think that what we are seeing now would have happened if Djoko was only six years older. He would give Sinneraz a lot of beatdowns and so would Nadal. They would as well lose the occasional matches against Wawrinka or Delpo so it could well be that if they arrive earlier they end up like two additional Thiems. Even more than Djokovic, Sinneraz are benefiting from the weak era.

 

[NoleFam]

Point being I’m not sure it would’ve been better for him to face an ATG 6 years younger instead of 14 or 16 because what we’re seeing now could’ve happened earlier.

This makes no sense. Point is, a 14 or 16 years age difference is much larger than a 6 years one. The difference in physicality between the players is also much larger.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Point being I’m not sure it would’ve been better for him to face an ATG 6 years younger instead of 14 or 16 because what we’re seeing now could’ve happened earlier.

It would have been worse for Djokovic's career overall if they were 6 years younger instead of 14/16 but it would be better for him now when they are facing each other.

 

[mike danny]

This makes no sense. Point is, a 14 or 16 years age difference is much larger than a 6 years one. The difference in physicality between the players is also much larger.

The difference in physicality is also significant between 2 players separated by 6 years. At least at a certain point.

Again, Thiem challenged Djokovic just by being 6 years younger

 

[NoleFam]

The difference in physicality is also significant between 2 players separated by 6 years. At least at a certain point.

Again, Thiem challenged Djokovic just by being 6 years younger

It can be once the older player reaches a certain age but it is no comparison to a 14 and 16 year difference. It's really not worth entertaining that they are remotely comparable. The age difference between Djokovic and Alcaraz is 2.76 times more than that of Federer and Djokovic. With Djokovic and Sinner, it's 2.46 times more than that of Federer and Djokovic. So whatever disadvantage you believe Federer had, then multiply it by that.

Thiem challenging him had little to do with Djokovic being 6 years older and more to do with Thiem just being a great player. It's not like he beat Djokovic by physically outlasting him. He just outplayed him. McEnore was 7 years older than Edberg and 5 and a half years older than Wilander and won both head to heads. Age is not as significant when you're talking 4-7 years, and the older player isn't always going to lose more times than not. Matchups also do matter.

 

[mike danny]

It can be once the older player reaches a certain age but it is no comparison to a 14 and 16 year difference. It's really not worth entertaining that they are remotely comparable. The age difference Djokovic and Alcaraz is 2.76 times more than that of Federer and Djokovic. With Djokovic and Sinner, it's 2.46 times more than that of Federer and Djokovic. So whatever disadvantage you believe Federer had, then multiply it by that.

Thiem challenging him had little to do with Djokovic being 6 years older and more to do with Thiem just being a great player. It's not like he beat Djokovic by physically outlasting him. He just outplayed him. McEnore was 7 years older than Edberg and 4 and a half years older than Wilander and won both head to heads. Age is not as significant when you're talking 4-7 years, and the older player isn't always going to lose more times than not. Matchups also do matter.

Thoem is not even as good as Murray and Stan

 

[NoleFam]

Thoem is not even as good as Murray and Stan

And this means he wasn't a great player?

 

[mike danny]

It can be once the older player reaches a certain age but it is no comparison to a 14 and 16 year difference. It's really not worth entertaining that they are remotely comparable. The age difference between Djokovic and Alcaraz is 2.76 times more than that of Federer and Djokovic. With Djokovic and Sinner, it's 2.46 times more than that of Federer and Djokovic. So whatever disadvantage you believe Federer had, then multiply it by that.

Thiem challenging him had little to do with Djokovic being 6 years older and more to do with Thiem just being a great player. It's not like he beat Djokovic by physically outlasting him. He just outplayed him. McEnore was 7 years older than Edberg and 4 and a half years older than Wilander and won both head to heads. Age is not as significant when you're talking 4-7 years, and the older player isn't always going to lose more times than not. Matchups also do matter.

If the bigger age gaps mattered more, then 2006 Nadal would’ve been a tougher opponent for 2015 Fed than 2015 Djokovic

 

[mike danny]

And this means he wasn't a great player?

He was good, but great is pushing it. Didn’t achieve enough.

 

[NoleFam]

He was good, but great is pushing it. Didn’t achieve enough.

Well your version of what's good and what's great just may be different than mine.

 

[Razer]

A younger Djoko would not have much problems fighting of Sinneraz. If they were only 5-6 years both would have to deal with 2015 Djoko and Raz already with 2011 one. They would lose handily to him and whether they would be able to outlast him that they can beat him once he crosses 30 remains to be seen.

If we see this scenario

Alcaraz born in 1995 instead of 2003
Sinner born in 1993 instead of 2001

Now we have an interesting hypothetical

So that means Alcaraz who was 19 in 2022 would now be 19 in 2014
Sinner was 22 at the beginning of 2024 would now be 22 at the beginning of 2016

This means 2017-2018 resurgence of Big 3 would now clash with today's peak Sinner and today's peak Alcaraz.

Pretty interesting ... The man who ends up as a loser in this is Djoko because all those low quality slams that he picked up in his 30s in this decade would probably vanish. Nadal and Federer don't lose much, maybe 1-2 slams at best, or not even that.

Nadal loses his scavengered AO 2022, FO2022 and maybe 1 of his US opens. Federer loses his AO 2018, thats it. Novak loses a lot.

 

[jackson vile]

Zverev and Taylor are 6 years older than Alcaraz but nobody talks about the age gap there lol. Djokovic and Murray beat Federer when he was still in his peak age.

Very good point

 

[SonnyT]

Fedfans are all up in arms about Federer was 6 years older than Djokovic. But when it comes to Djokovic, they pretend to forget he is more than twice that age gap when he is facing Sinner and Alcaraz.

 

[Lauren_Girl']

It's actually almost offensive when I see Fed fans try to pretend the age gap between Roger and Novak was even close to comparable to what Djokovic is dealing with now.

Yes I am slightly bitter that he's going to lose fo Alcaraz in max 4 sets. I've been bitter all US Open seeing this geriatric with no meniscus still be able to make the semifinals at his age but having to face Alcaraz and Sinner back to back. .

Yeah the age difference between Djokovic and Federer was almost meaningless during 95% of Federer's career. Little more than 5 years is not that big. Unless maybe for Wimbledon 2019. Djokovic was 33 and Federer 38. And AO 2020. I can buy the age excuse for these 2 matches but not before 2019. I remember Fed fans were already using the age difference excuse at AO 2008 and USO 2010/2011. Federer wasn't even 30 but according to them, he was too old. Was quite ridiculous. 14 years between Sinner and Djokovic... 14 years vs 5 years. Apples and oranges.

 

[ND-13]

Fedfans are all up in arms about Federer was 6 years older than Djokovic. But when it comes to Djokovic, they pretend to forget he is more than twice that age gap when he is facing Sinner and Alcaraz.

Either there is age-gap consideration OR there is none.

We cannot say 6 years is normal, 7 or 12 are not.

 

[ND-13]

Yeah the age difference between Djokovic and Federer was almost meaningless during 95% of Federer's career. Little more than 5 years is not that big. Unless maybe for Wimbledon 2019. Djokovic was 33 and Federer 38. And AO 2020. I can buy the age excuse for these 2 matches but not before 2019. I remember Fed fans were already using the age difference excuse at AO 2008 and USO 2010/2011. Federer wasn't even 30 but according to them, he was too old. Was quite ridiculous. 14 years between Sinner and Djokovic... 14 years vs 5 years. Apples and oranges.

22-24 are peak years in tennis. That is what you are witnessing from Sinneraz . It does not matter if the opponent is 28 or 36.

 

[SriVan90]

Watch from 9:07

 

[mike danny]

Well your version of what's good and what's great just may be different than mine.

He was good, but he was never no.1 and his only slam win was asterisked. He at least needed to win another major that was better than USO 2020

 

[mike danny]

McEnore was 7 years older than Edberg and 5 and a half years older than Wilander and won both head to heads.

Mac lost his last 5 matches against Edberg after he turned 30 or thereabouts. Edberg also leads 2-1 in slam matches.

Wilander leads 3-2 in slam matches vs Mac too.

Not to mention his last victory against either of them came when he was 30. Didn’t beat them again after.

Age is not as significant when you're talking 4-7 years, and the older player isn't always going to lose more times than not. Matchups also do matter.

Age is significant at one point when one player gets older, while the other is still in his prime. Djokovic started taking control of the rivalry with Fed after the latter was 32. Very few have played top level tennis at or after that age. Connors was on the losing side of his match-ups with Lendl and Mac after he turned 30 and his longevity was incredible.

 

[SonnyT]

22-24 are peak years in tennis. That is what you are witnessing from Sinneraz . It does not matter if the opponent is 28 or 36.

Nowadays, anything under 34, you're still your peak!

After '11, Federer lost 2 matches while holding match points at slam matches. If he had held on, the slam record against Djokovic would be 4-7, respectable instead of actual 2-9. He would finish career with 21 slam victories, Djokovic with 22, and Nadal with 23.

Notice that Djokovic didn't come back from match-points down in any non-slam matches, but had come back from match-points in 3 different slam matches. So what does that tells you?

 

[ND-13]

Nowadays, anything under 34, you're still your peak!

After '11, Federer lost 2 matches while holding match points at slam matches. If he had held on, the slam record against Djokovic would be 4-7, respectable instead of actual 2-9. He would finish career with 21 slam victories, Djokovic with 22, and Nadal with 23.

Notice that Djokovic didn't come back from match-points down in any non-slam matches, but had come back from match-points in 3 different slam matches. So what does that tells you?

That Djokovic won because he was younger and fitter with more endurance ??

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Fedfans are all up in arms about Federer was 6 years older than Djokovic. But when it comes to Djokovic, they pretend to forget he is more than twice that age gap when he is facing Sinner and Alcaraz.

It's about how late this came to be, not that this age gap isn't significant, as should have been made clear by many replies in this thread.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

That Djokovic won because he was younger and fitter with more endurance ??

Federer only needed to serve 1 ace which was his forte. Then Djokovic would have been powerless.

 

[SriVan90]

Federer only needed to serve 1 ace which was his forte. Then Djokovic would have been powerless.

Lost 4 consecutive points on his serve on grass

 

[SriVan90]

Federer’s Era - 2003 Wimbledon to 2010 Australian Open, Djokovic’s Era - 2011 Australian Open to 2023 US Open - It’s a Proof that Djokovic’s Game is better than Federer’s as his peak lasted Longer.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Lost 4 consecutive points on his serve on grass

Exactly. There is no way you can hide from that. It was a major choke of epic proportions. Nothing to do with fitness there.

 

[SriVan90]

Exactly. There is no way you can hide from that. It was a major choke of epic proportions. Nothing to do with fitness there.

Federer just gifted him the title. Clearly shows that Federer had the mental block vs Djokovic. Federer was choking like this when he was young too had a match point vs Safin and just tried to hit a tweener on a crucial match point. Federer’s game plan at match points and break points sucks. 2011 French Open had a set point vs Nadal but instead of playing rallies and expecting an error from Nadal he was too desperate to end the point so just chipped it over the net only for nadal to hit back winner. Federer never learned his lessons and was just too confident on his talent.