Djokovic is a hero

tonylg

Professional
Are you talking about Novak's left shoulder, or Stan's right shoulder?

I think the latter is what is deciding this match.
 

hipolymer

Hall of Fame
I don't know about that but there's a gray hair sticking out of his head and it makes me wanna take a flight to new york just to pluck it out
 

BetaServe

Professional
Have some respect please for arguably the greatest ever player of all time. He never fakes injuries.
lol so he only has injury when playing Stan the man? How convenient.
Just accept the fact that Stan can hit him off the court and he doesn't have ANYTHING to hurt Stan. With or without injuries, he'd still lose.
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
Guy is clearly in agony...this shoulder issue clearly a problem but he is out there trying his hardest.

Not sure he can beat Stan tonight and i like Stan but Novak clearly way off.
Stan isn’t giving him anything to build on, injury or not. Stan’s beat Djo before with this style of play and form. Not over, but Djo looks a bit resigned so far.
 

FRV2

Semi-Pro
lol so he only has injury when playing Stan the man? How convenient.
Just accept the fact that Stan can hit him off the court and he doesn't have ANYTHING to hurt Stan. With or without injuries, he'd still lose.
He is injured. It's possible Stan still would have beat him if he weren't, but it doesn't change the fact he's injured.
 

Djokodal Fan

Hall of Fame
Nadal retired against delpo last year during mid match. Player knows best how his body condition to be able to play further. We have some arm chair critics who have never held a racquet in their hands, but come here to criticize top sports personalities.

TTW never ceases to amaze !
 

King No1e

Legend
lol so he only has injury when playing Stan the man? How convenient.
Just accept the fact that Stan can hit him off the court and he doesn't have ANYTHING to hurt Stan. With or without injuries, he'd still lose.
What about 19-6 doesn't compute for you?
 

skip1969

Legend
You're not a friggin hero for coming out to play injured. Athletes play injured all the time, from little kids to pro athletes getting paid millions.

Don't come out onto the court and retire and expect me to applaud you. If you come out onto the court, you better take the win or the loss that follows, and your injury is no excuse. If it's bad, then take the walkover. If you know you can't win, or even if you do win, you won't be able to go the next round, why bother coming out at all? To look like a hero? Not in my book you don't.

What Novak just did . . . play part of a match and then decide to retire . . . there was a term for that. It used to be called "loss of condition." That used to be the rule before they changed it to allow the trainer to come out for anything and everything. You came out, you couldn't complete the match, and it was because of your loss of condition. Guess what. Loss of condition doesn't make you a hero.
 

Subway Tennis

Hall of Fame
You're not a friggin hero for coming out to play injured. Athletes play injured all the time, from little kids to pro athletes getting paid millions.

Don't come out onto the court and retire and expect me to applaud you. If you come out onto the court, you better take the win or the loss that follows, and your injury is no excuse. If it's bad, then take the walkover. If you know you can't win, or even if you do win, you won't be able to go the next round, why bother coming out at all? To look like a hero? Not in my book you don't.

What Novak just did . . . play part of a match and then decide to retire . . . there was a term for that. It used to be called "loss of condition." That used to be the rule before they changed it to allow the trainer to come out for anything and everything. You came out, you couldn't complete the match, and it was because of your loss of condition. Guess what. Loss of condition doesn't make you a hero.
I hope you're not ever in a position to make a call or influence a decision about whether an athlete can play on in a match with judgement like this. Djokovic's retirement had nothing to do with loss of condition.

That meat grinder approach of "playing on" has rightfully been relegated to the stone age where it belongs.

People with attitudes like yours expose sportspeople to unnecessary risks that shorten their careers.
 

skip1969

Legend
I hope you're not ever in a position to make a call or influence a decision about whether an athlete can play on in a match with judgement like this. Djokovic's retirement had nothing to do with loss of condition.

That meat grinder approach of "playing on" has rightfully been relegated to the stone age where it belongs.

People with attitudes like yours expose sportspeople to unnecessary risks that shorten their careers.
On the contrary. I said in the match thread that I support a player's decision to do whatever he thinks is best for his body. Whenever there has been a retirement, I have consistently said the same thing. Look up my posts. I've been on this board a long time. My tennis has been severely scaled back for the past 15 years because of injury and surgery, so I side with the player - any player - when they don't want to play on.

Having said that, I'm not gonna make a hero out of you just because you tried to play and couldn't finish a match. That's what the OP did, and that was what my post was about. It's black and white for me. Your physio tells you the score: that your injury will get worse if you play or it won't. The player is free to decide. If he or she decides to come out onto the court . . . then as far as I am concerned, your injury does not exist. If it was that serious, you would have decided to not play.

As a fan, I don't give participation medals to pros. When should I have started making Novack a hero during that match? When he stepped out onto the court? (What a guy!) When he got through the first set? (What a trooper!) When he broke and held for 3-0 in the second? (What a stud!) When he lost the second set? (What heart!) Or when he finally said 'no mas' in the third game of the third? (What a champion in defeat!)

How about never?

Because that's fanboy stuff. Here everyone wants to prop up their hero when he goes out onto the court, with a bad ankle or a bad shoulder or a bad hair day. If he wins, he's a bull, a champion, a warrior. If he loses, he's still a bull, a champion and a warrior just for trying. It's ludicrous. Especially since, if a player they hate does the exact same thing, they call him a weakling, a faker, and worse.

I'm not fanboy schizophrenic. I apply the same reasoning to all players.
 
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skip1969

Legend
And to answer your specific statements . . .
Djokovic's retirement had nothing to do with loss of condition.
That's precisely what it's called when your body is failing you and forces you to retire. If you have to retire for anything other than an injury which you sustain during the match in progress, it falls under the general heading of "loss of condition."
That meat grinder approach of "playing on" has rightfully been relegated to the stone age where it belongs. People with attitudes like yours expose sportspeople to unnecessary risks that shorten their careers.
It was Djokovic and/or his team which decided he should "play on" tonight, so using your own rationale, it was they who exposed him to "unnecessary risks" that might shorten his career with their "meat grinder" approach to sport. No one put a gun to his head. So either he and his team exposed him to risk, or they told him to go out there because no more harm could be done by playing. In either scenario, it doesn't make him a hero. And if no more harm could be done by playing, he could have finished out the match, right?
 

BH40love

Rookie
Nadal retired against delpo last year during mid match. Player knows best how his body condition to be able to play further. We have some arm chair critics who have never held a racquet in their hands, but come here to criticize top sports personalities.

TTW never ceases to amaze !
Sure dude.
I have played baseball and tennis at a very high level (collegiate) and there is no way you check out at that stage of a match.
He shouldn’t have even come out for that 3rd set or if he won that 2nd set would he have still retired? He was about to get smacked out in straight sets and took from Stan what was a well deserved victory. It’s no wonder MOST crowds don’t back djokovic
 

Djokodal Fan

Hall of Fame
Sure dude.
I have played baseball and tennis at a very high level (collegiate) and there is no way you check out at that stage of a match.
He shouldn’t have even come out for that 3rd set or if he won that 2nd set would he have still retired? He was about to get smacked out in straight sets and took from Stan what was a well deserved victory. It’s no wonder MOST crowds don’t back djokovic
Look I don't support mid match retirements. In my.opinion djok should have just called it off after his second round win after suspect shoulder problem. I liked how fed pulled out of WTF finals after he felt he was not 100%. But from athletes standpoint you don't know what they are going through. May be he felt ok and underestimated things .

Only a person knows how well his body will hold up and they continue to play. In my opinion he should not have played if he was 100% to begin with.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Look I don't support mid match retirements. In my.opinion djok should have just called it off after his second round win after suspect shoulder problem. I liked how fed pulled out of WTF finals after he felt he was not 100%. But from athletes standpoint you don't know what they are going through. May be he felt ok and underestimated things .

Only a person knows how well his body will hold up and they continue to play. In my opinion he should not have played if he was 100% to begin with.
All he had to do was throw 8 serves in. So many players take final set bagel.

If Murray can take a bagel and breadstick at London at YEC at home turf. Novak cannot do such a small thing for his friend..

This was the second time after USO 16 when he took a MTO out of the blue for toenail.
 

BH40love

Rookie
Look I don't support mid match retirements. In my.opinion djok should have just called it off after his second round win after suspect shoulder problem. I liked how fed pulled out of WTF finals after he felt he was not 100%. But from athletes standpoint you don't know what they are going through. May be he felt ok and underestimated things .

Only a person knows how well his body will hold up and they continue to play. In my opinion he should not have played if he was 100% to begin with.
The timing was terrible. He could have just finished it at that point. Looks bad on himself and doesn’t give Stan the proper respect tbh
 

yokied

Professional
McEnroe didn't buy into it. Neither do I. Stan simply hit him off the court and Djokovic had no plan B.
Every single one of Stan's major wins are fair and f***ing square. If the opponents can't handle the heat, take MTOs and retire etc well, that's not his problem. None of them had a prayer anyway. Today is just another example.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Novak should call it a season and let the shoulder heal.
Maybe but he could forfeit the year-end #1 ranking if he does. He's defending another Masters title in Shanghai and finals at both Paris and the WTF. That's a hefty chunk of ranking points he will lose which Nadal or Federer could easily pick up. Still, that's a sacrifice he may have to make if his doctors advise him to rest his shoulder for the next few months.
 

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
Every single one of Stan's major wins are fair and f***ing square. If the opponents can't handle the heat, take MTOs and retire etc well, that's not his problem. None of them had a prayer anyway. Today is just another example.
Yes. The notion that one can blame Stan for Novak's loss is absurd.

Stan was up two sets to none. Novak knew he could not win, so decided to cut his own losses (by retiring).
 

scotus

G.O.A.T.
Maybe but he could forfeit the year-end #1 ranking if he does. He's defending another Masters title in Shanghai and finals at both Paris and the WTF. That's a hefty chunk of ranking points he will lose which Nadal or Federer could easily pick up. Still, that's a sacrifice he may have to make if his doctors advise him to rest his shoulder for the next few months.
I would rather that he surrender the #1 ranking and be completely healthy so that he might give himself a good chance at nabbing 2-3 slams a year for the foreseeable future.
 
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