Djokovic is closer to Federer than Nadal is

Nop i acknowledge his achievements.

11 FO 11 MC 11 Barcelona 8 Roma 5 Madrid.

His streak in the spring summer of 2008 was unreal. FO Queens Wimbledon Canada Open Olympics.

But i do feel he's not as good as Fed and Novak.
Not in that post but generally. Read some of your above posts on Nadal above.
 
I credit him for his achievements especially on clay. I see pure determination amazing physical abilities. I am impressed with his winning spirit etc etc but i am not impressed in his tennis skills. Let's put it this way. I am not a fan of high top spin shots from the back getting the ball back in play extending the rallies until no end etc etc.

I truly think that Fed and Novak are much better tennis players. That's probably why they have dominated more the game and got less injured.

I really dislike his attitude as well. Blaming injuries for his losses or demanding ban against a referee like Carlos Benardes. That just says a lot on the guy. Not my thing sorry.

The kind of tennis i want to pay for:

 
I credit him for his achievements especially on clay. I see pure determination amazing physical abilities. I am impressed with his winning spirit etc etc but i am not impressed in his tennis skills. Let's put it this way. I am not a fan of high top spin shots from the back getting the ball back in play extending the rallies until no end etc etc.

I truly think that Fed and Novak are much better tennis players. That's probably why they have dominated more the game and got less injured.

I really dislike his attitude as well. Blaming injuries for his losses or demanding ban against a referee like Carlos Benardes. That just says a lot on the guy. Not my thing sorry.

The kind of tennis i want to pay for:

That ball popping has lots of skill,talent and strength in it. You clearly are against Nadal big time. Nadal is no worse of a sportsman than his rivals.
Just because you pay to see a certain style of tennis that does not mean you have to degrade Nadal.
Nadal has a top 2 FH of the modern era and he has a great BH,very good netplay and smashes and can be very aggressive when he is in the zone.
 
That ball popping has lots of skill,talent and strength in it. You clearly are against Nadal big time. Nadal is no worse of a sportsman than his rivals.
Just because you pay to see a certain style of tennis that does not mean you have to degrade Nadal.
Nadal has a top 2 FH of the modern era and he has a great BH,very good netplay and smashes and can be very aggressive when he is in the zone.
Fed and Novak are not known to have asked for a referee to get a ban. That's putting pressure on the referees.

Nadal's style of plays requires talent and skill. That would be crazy to think otherwise. In my opinion being able to outclass your opponents by taking time away and hitting winners all over the place returning a drop shot on a first serve winning 6/0 6/0 in the semi finals of a YEC that's just another class.

I really think that Novak Fed and other players have always felt they were better tennis players than Nadal that's why they really got upset when they lost.

 
Fed and Novak are not known to have asked for a referee to get a ban. That's putting pressure on the referees.

Nadal's style of plays requires talent and skill. That would be crazy to think otherwise. In my opinion being able to outclass your opponents by taking time away and hitting winners all over the place returning a drop shot on a first serve winning 6/0 6/0 in the semi finals of a YEC that's just another class.
Djokovic and Federer have had other unsportsmanlike moments though.
Nadal is not as good as Federer at making the game look easy. But my point was sometimes your to against him.
Preference is fine.
 
Djokovic and Federer have had other unsportsmanlike moments though.
Nadal is not as good as Federer at making the game look easy. But my point was sometimes your to against him.
Preference is fine.
Every player have had unsportsmanlike. Tennis players are known for having big ego's.

But getting a referee banned is bad.
 
Every player have had unsportsmanlike. Tennis players are known for having big ego's.

But getting a referee banned is bad.
Every player have had unsportsmanlike. Tennis players are known for having big ego's.

But getting a referee banned is bad.
He said it in the heat of the moment. Sure it is bad but is it worse than hitting balls in the crowd out of frustration or calling Djokovic a joke in DC 2006?
 
He said it in the heat of the moment. Sure it is bad but is it worse than hitting balls in the crowd out of frustration or calling Djokovic a joke in DC 2006?
I am not here to judge everyone's behaviour.

Back in the day Novak was always pretending to be injured retiring and being a joke at times. To be fair he has improved a lot and he's now really nice guy close to his fans. Much more genuine than he used to. And i really enjoy Novak's tennis. Not as easy as fed but still amazing. His 2015 and 2011 season's are amazing. Winning the WTF 4 times in a row. Getting back from world number 22 in the world to world number 1 outstanding.

Throwing a ball in the ground smashing a racket etc etc is not cheating.
 
There's no hatred.

Everyone knows that Djokovic was out of form in 2017 2018 and lost to players he didn't used to like Istomin Chung Ceccinato Kyrgios Berdych Thiem Klizan and even Nadal to some extent (Madrid 2017 and Roma 2018).

https://www.atptour.com/en/players/fedex-head-2-head/novak-djokovic-vs-rafael-nadal/D643/N409

Last time Nadal has won a set against Novak on hard courts was in the Us open 2013.
Last time Nadal had beaten Novak before Madrid 2017 was in the FO final 2014.

There's no hatred against Nadal. But i do find it unfair to compare him to Novak and Fed who are in a league of their own.

Still Nadal has had an amazing career and is an incredible player. 11 FO 11 MC 11 Barcelona 8 Roma 2 Wimbledon's 3 Us open's 1 AO 81 winning streak on clay 50 consecutive sets on clay in 2017 and 2018.
So only hard court matches count?. Lets just forget that grass or clay exists, cos the argument only suits HC eh :-D.
 
I am not here to judge everyone's behaviour.

Back in the day Novak was always pretending to be injured retiring and being a joke at times. To be fair he has improved a lot and he's now really nice guy close to his fans. Much more genuine than he used to. And i really enjoy Novak's tennis. Not as easy as fed but still amazing. His 2015 and 2011 season's are amazing. Winning the WTF 4 times in a row. Getting back from world number 22 in the world to world number 1 outstanding.

Throwing a ball in the ground smashing a racket etc etc is not cheating.
Hitting a ball into the crowd could have hurt people. Calling somebody a joke can be seen as disrespectful no matter if you consider it true. Or calling Djokovic lucky after USO 2011.
The point is Nadal sportsmanship is no where near as bad as you are claiming.
Novak 2011/2015 was amazing yes.
 
Hitting a ball into the crowd could have hurt people. Calling somebody a joke can be seen as disrespectful no matter if you consider it true. Or calling Djokovic lucky after USO 2011.
The point is Nadal sportsmanship is no where near as bad as you are claiming.
Novak 2011/2015 was amazing yes.
Nadal is not bad but super bad. Banning a referee (that's cheating and says a lot about the guy) always blaming injuries for his losses.

Why do you think does he get more injured than Fed and Novak?

Because he has to push his own limits to keep in touch with Fed and Novak standards. That's what happened against Cilic last year at the AO. Nadal was not unlucky. He paid the price for overplaying and his style of play.

Djokovic was a joke at the time and he's come out as a really good guy. Down to earth close to his fans and not pretentious.

 
Hitting a ball into the crowd could have hurt people. Calling somebody a joke can be seen as disrespectful no matter if you consider it true. Or calling Djokovic lucky after USO 2011.
The point is Nadal sportsmanship is no where near as bad as you are claiming.
Novak 2011/2015 was amazing yes.
The first set of examples are heat of the moment stuff and while they do not cover Fedovic in glory, they are still nowhere as bad as wanting an umpire removed from your matches just because he gets tough with you. The latter is basically throwing your weight around to get what you want. Only one player out of the three keeps constantly complaining about the conditions either himself or through his self anointed spokesperson Toni. So as far as sportsmanship goes, no, Nadal is a long way behind Fedovic. Which is not a big deal in the larger scheme of things if you compare it to Connors wiping off a mark so that the point would be ruled in his favour. Largely the big three conduct themselves well.
 
Nadal is not bad but super bad. Banning a referee (that's cheating and says a lot about the guy) always blaming injuries for his losses.

Why do you think does he get more injured than Fed and Novak?

Because he has to push his own limits to keep in touch with Fed and Novak standards. That's what happened against Cilic last year at the AO. Nadal was not unlucky. He paid the price for overplaying and his style of play.

Djokovic was a joke at the time and he's come out as a really good guy. Down to earth close to his fans and not pretentious.

Nadal does not always blame injury for losing and he often has them.
In that video Roddick was making fun of Novak and rumors said they had a little locker room spat.
I already agree Nadal is not as good as Fed or Novak at finishing points earlier. But he has proven he can play aggressive and finish points ala Wimbeldon 2018.
 
The first set of examples are heat of the moment stuff and while they do not cover Fedovic in glory, they are still nowhere as bad as wanting an umpire removed from your matches just because he gets tough with you. The latter is basically throwing your weight around to get what you want. Only one player out of the three keeps constantly complaining about the conditions either himself or through his self anointed spokesperson Toni. So as far as sportsmanship goes, no, Nadal is a long way behind Fedovic. Which is not a big deal in the larger scheme of things if you compare it to Connors wiping off a mark so that the point would be ruled in his favour. Largely the big three conduct themselves well.
Carlos has done Nadal matches since has he not? I agree it was not the most sportsmanlike thing but Feds statement was in the heat of the moment too.
 
Nadal does not always blame injury for losing and he often has them.
In that video Roddick was making fun of Novak and rumors said they had a little locker room spat.
I already agree Nadal is not as good as Fed or Novak at finishing points earlier. But he has proven he can play aggressive and finish points ala Wimbeldon 2018.
He's always complaining about having more injuries than Fed and Novak. Implying he would have achieved more than them if injury free.

He got injured not because he was unlucky but because he had to push his own limits to reach Fed and Novaks standarts.

When Djokovic got fitter his level of tennis was out of reach for Nadal.
 
He's always complaining about having more injuries than Fed and Novak. Implying he would have achieved more than them if injury free.

He got injured not because he was unlucky but because he had to push his own limits to reach Fed and Novaks standarts.
Did he mention it in Wimbeldon 2018 or after his 5 losses in a row to Fed in 2015/2017? Or his 7 losses in a row to Nole in 2011-12?
Nadal injury problems have also been down to bad luck as well as his game to a extent. Nadal has a congenital bone disorder. That is clearly some bad luck.
When Djokovic got fitter he controlled both Federer and Nadal.
Anyway Djokovic did not have to many issues from 2007 to 2009 it effected him a lot more in 2010 and he seeked help big time and made a transformation.
 
Did he mention it in Wimbeldon 2018 or after his 5 losses in a row to Fed in 2015/2017? Or his 7 losses in a row to Nole in 2011-12?
Nadal injury problems have also been down to bad luck as well as his game to a extent. Nadal has a congenital bone disorder. That is clearly some bad luck.
He was complaining about the roof at Wimbledon.

YEC on clay being more injured than the others banning a referee taking too much time between points ....not my thing.
 
He was complaining about the roof at Wimbledon.

YEC on clay being more injured than the others banning a referee taking too much time between points ....not my thing.
Federer has asked for faster courts to aid more attacking in 2012 and mentioned slower courts too. Nadal has only mentioned that a few times. Does not mean much. Your proving even more you are a hater.
He mentioned the roof briefly. Nadal does take time between points yes he should be faster on points sometimes.
 
Federer has asked for faster courts to aid more attacking in 2012 and mentioned slower courts too. Nadal has only mentioned that a few times. Does not mean much. Your proving even more you are a hater.
He mentioned the roof briefly. Nadal does take time between points yes he should be faster on points sometimes.
I mean courts are slow nowadays. That's a fact and that's why records are being achieved.

http://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/25973071/tennis-roger-federer-goat-rafael-nadal-novak-djokovic

I think Fed is right. Hard courts even at the YEC are slow.

The final between Nadal and Novak at the AO in 2012 is a perfect example. Their match was similar to a clay court game.
 
Did he not say after the match he did not want to talk about it and downplay it?
LOL

He never in recent times had that before or after that match.

Just like his "injury" at the AO this year, where he "didn't want to talk about it", but made sure to walk the entire walk in the corridors after the match with Djokovic in front of every camera with his shirt off, so that noone missed it.

Yep, that guy.

:cool:
 
I loved Rafa's response here so much! It was lighthearted yet had a better effect of showing how BS Novak's comments than if he went into explaining why Djokovic's wrong, referring to the score or something like that. Just how smoothly he reacts, I broke into laughter like the people in the presser when watching it the first time. :laughing:
That was really funny and pretentious from Novak.

Even if Novak was really pushing it way too far, i think he had the feeling that he was a better tennis player but lacked mental and physical strength to play with Nadal.
 
I mean courts are slow nowadays. That's a fact and that's why records are being achieved.

http://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/25973071/tennis-roger-federer-goat-rafael-nadal-novak-djokovic

I think Fed is right. Hard courts even at the YEC are slow.

The final between Nadal and Novak at the AO in 2012 is a perfect example. Their match was similar to a clay court game.
A slower HC like AO 2011-12 cannot be the exact same as clay still.
And it balances out your claim. If Federer is right then it balances it out.
YEC was slower from 2012 to 2015 not now it has played faster in the last 3 additions.
 
https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/08/rafa...als-roger-federer-and-novak-djokovic-7925415/

"
‘Sorry, but is not fair to compare myself with them,’ he said in his post match press conference. ‘They didn’t have a – Novak had something last year. Roger have couple of ones. But at the age of 36 is not the same.

Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/08/rafa...derer-and-novak-djokovic-7925415/?ito=cbshare
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/"
Is that one example you have of him pointing out his worse luck with injury? Did you not say all the time?
 
Is that one example you have of him pointing out his worse luck with injury? Did you not say all the time?
It's not out of luck. It's because of his style of play.

Each time he blames injury for his lack of results (implying that without injuries he would be better than fed and novak), my ears are bleeding.
 
A slower HC like AO 2011-12 cannot be the exact same as clay still.
And it balances out your claim. If Federer is right then it balances it out.
YEC was slower from 2012 to 2015 not now it has played faster in the last 3 additions.
Hard courts are too slow.

Novak vs Nadal in 2012 at the australian open lasted 6 hours. Both of them played a clay court game.
 
Hard courts are too slow.

Novak vs Nadal in 2012 at the australian open lasted 6 hours. Both of them played a clay court game.
Obviously it still wasnt clay since Novak won. Had it been clay he never wins in 2012. The French Open final was a relative drubbing despite going 4 sets. Novak got only 1 of 8 sets vs Nadal on clay this year. Novak's form in 2012 was not good enough and Nadal's too good for Novak to make any impact on clay. So the fact Novak won the Australian Open final at all already disproves this logic.
 
Obviously it still wasnt clay since Novak won. Had it been clay he never wins in 2012. The French Open final was a relative drubbing despite going 4 sets. Novak got only 1 of 8 sets vs Nadal on clay this year. Novak's form in 2012 was not good enough and Nadal's too good for Novak to make any impact on clay. So the fact Novak won the Australian Open final at all already disproves this logic.
I said they played a style of tennis similar to clay. That's why experts are saying there's been an homogenization of the surfaces allowing players to break records.

Nadal is obviously the king of clay in 2012. Djokovic was closer in 2011 (Madrid and Roma) 2013 (MC) 2014 (Roma) and better in 2015 ( MC FO) 2016.
 
Hard courts are too slow.

Novak vs Nadal in 2012 at the australian open lasted 6 hours. Both of them played a clay court game.
That is a opinion. Their could be a case for more faster courts but the same could be said about tennis having a 2nd clay slam as well.
AO 2012 would still bounce lower than a clay court. The physics of the surfaces are not the same.
 
It's not out of luck. It's because of his style of play.

Each time he blames injury for his lack of results (implying that without injuries he would be better than fed and novak), my ears are bleeding.
I gave a lot of examples he did not. It is a mixture but luck comes into it. Ferrer has a style as hard or harder on the body as Nadal and has not got injuried as much. Boris Becker has even said himself it can be down to luck.
Nadal was born with a bone disorder genetically that is bad luck too.
 
That is a opinion. Their could be a case for more faster courts but the same could be said about tennis having a 2nd clay slam as well.
AO 2012 would still bounce lower than a clay court. The physics of the surfaces are not the same.
Clay has got 1 slam and 3 MS that's more than enough. Grass 1 GS that's all.

We need more diversity more attacking players than retrievers so that's why i think courts should be faster. If not it's same style of tennis all year round.
 
I gave a lot of examples he did not. It is a mixture but luck comes into it. Ferrer has a style as hard or harder on the body as Nadal and has not got injuried as much. Boris Becker has even said himself it can be down to luck.
Nadal was born with a bone disorder genetically that is bad luck too.
Nadal pushed his body to the limits. He went even further than Ferrer. Nadal not injured is a beast. He gets every ball back in play outlast his opponents until there's no solution.

He played loads of tournaments in a small amount of time. MC Barcelone Madrid Roma FO Queens Wimbledon.
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
Do you believe slam titles are the only measure of greatness?
Hitman is just clever. He supports narrative "number of slams is the major criteria for GOAT" knowing that Djokovic will overtake Federer in this category. Then, he will have moral right to claim that Djokovic is the GOAT and no one can say anything about it. Hitman has a long term strategy.
 
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