Djokovic is the first ever AO semifinalist who hasn't played in a day session
- Thread starter threehandedbackhand
- Start date
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
All that and a bag of salt.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Was it that many? Of his 6 matches, the matches against P. McEnroe and Haarhuis were nighttime, the Krickstein match was daytime and the semi against Courier was daytime. I seemed to remember the Novacek match being daytime. I can't quite remember with Schapers. Was that night?
threehandedbackhand
Legend
I really don't know. I've shared some statistics. It's the people who can't stop talking about it
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
I think that all TTW threads need this one as a second post.
Moose Malloy
G.O.A.T.
Schapers was night. I was there and kept my drawsheets. Novacek was day. 3 night matches is less than what Fed and co(and Roddick) got many years. Super Saturday is not officially a night session. But his semi with Courier was the 3rd match of the day, so it could have stretched into night if previous matches went longer.
The Fedfather
Legend
This is as non-issue as it gets. Wow, Novak didn't play a day match. Who would've thought, when the draw almost didn't have top seeds left by the end of round 2. And like, Nadal said publically that as top players they are allowed to make requests for the scheduling. So even if Djokovic did request night sessions, that's not just him being privileged. That's how the system works for most of the elite guys.
TheAssassin
Legend
It works how it works. I believe in certain earned privileges, especially after lacking them relative to one's status for a long time. If you want to classify that as me making statements of entitlement, especially as only the deluded VamosCircus see a big problem with this scheduling, go for it. I'd say it pales in comparison to what others have said over the years, how someone deserves more actual triumphs for being a more natural player with prettier game, or for being a humble, constantly injured warrior. But that is just me.
No, not the flat earther card! That's me exposed now. Got nowhere to hide. Fitting that the post ended with Dick lol...
Hitman
Talk Tennis Guru
Hitman
Talk Tennis Guru
Australia got it wrong, it is fixed this year.
Sampras-Bruguera 1993
Legend
The greatest player in history can decide to play whenever he wants
Who should go on last anyways ? Gauff ? LOL
Who should go on last anyways ? Gauff ? LOL
Fair enough. I don't beleive I've seen players been awarded only night time sessions for having a prettier game or being humble, but if that's the case then fine.
To me none of them are any reasons to stack the deck in any ones favor, if anything, it should be extra hard for the ultra elite, but ok..
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
This is a tournament where many of the stars and seeds got knocked out early (or didn’t show up) and there was intense interest about Djokovic after the novaxx debacle last year. So, it is not a surprise for me at all that they made him play in prime time in every match and if they had given him a day match just to be fair to other players, it would have put lesser stars on prime time which is not good business for the AO.
It just shows that Nadal and Djokovic are the only superstars on tour and their standing towers over everyone else.
It just shows that Nadal and Djokovic are the only superstars on tour and their standing towers over everyone else.
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Some players talked about parity and disparity. I don't think, its any form of parity, if Paul has had 5 day matches in the heat, and Djoker has had only night sessions. I think, they played two different tournaments. And we all can see, that the AO is a very physical event. Its a problem for all players, not only for one selected player. And i have been writing about this problem since several years, i think the issue gets out of hand, now with AO, RG and USO all scheduling those night sessions.
And isn't Djokovic ATP equivalent organisation (PTPA or something?) all about equality?
Strange then that his fanbase is so pro-favoratism.
I remember that Djoker himself complained in 2017 or 2018, that he had to play in the intense heat, while Federer always got the privilege to play at nights. I also remember, that Agassi and Djoker complained about scheduling issues at Wim (too late beginning i think), when Agassi was his coach. Its correct to fight for parity, but the organizers should attend the same principles for all players, too.
The Fedfather
Legend
I hear you and you are right, but well, the organizers wouldn't schedule less popular matches at night regularly and it is what it is. For what it's worth, for those who play in the heat, their opponents are playing in the heat too and it's not out of question that some players could have fared better with the day conditions then they would have with the night ones.
If I reed the sheet correctly as posted by OP, federer in 2017 and 2018 played a daymatch, just like Djokovic in 2019 and 2021. Matter of fact, I don't see any line, except for this year, where one player had full consistency during the tournament.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
Organizers have scheduled popular matches during the day at slams before when it was obvious that to not do so even once with a player would be an issue of fairness. Slams have to balance questions of commerce and questions of fairness all the time. We all know this.
This is why we've never seen an AO where a player only played at night, no matter what his personal preferences were and no matter how big of a star he was. Until now.
It's simply unprecedented and unfair to give that degree of preferential treatment to one player.
This is why we've never seen an AO where a player only played at night, no matter what his personal preferences were and no matter how big of a star he was. Until now.
It's simply unprecedented and unfair to give that degree of preferential treatment to one player.
Djokodal Fan
Hall of Fame
there is nothing you can do when Nadal or Djokovic are in the house. They are the big draw and who spectators want to watch.
Federer was given preferential treatment and primetime for several years at multiple slams. Nothing wrong with it. Ultimately money speaks!!
Federer was given preferential treatment and primetime for several years at multiple slams. Nothing wrong with it. Ultimately money speaks!!
If Nadal loses in the night, quick conditions are issue
If he loses in the day, heat is the issue.
What to do
HFK
Professional
This thread is about Djokovic. If you want to talk about Nadal, start your own thread.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
How many AOs did Federer play where he didn't play even a single daytime match through the semifinals?
As for nothing being wrong with 'money speaking' that's quite false. Tournaments have to take commerce into account, of course but they also have to take other things into account as well such as the general perception of fairness where the players are concerned more generally.
Djokovic's fans don't actually believe that commerce should trump everything of course which is why they have complained vociferously through the years whenever they perceived a bigger star like Federer to get preferential treatment, even when it was treatment far less egregious than this.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
How many AOs did Federer play where his half of the draw was decimated the way Djokovic's was this year?
Do you also realize you're arguing over one (1) day match?
DSH
G.O.A.T.
And wasn't it the same case when Nadal played the Australian Open last year with almost no one with whom he could exchange different match sessions?
What changed then?
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
Nadal fans: No one cares about Novak
Also Nadal fans: endlessly spam the front page of TTW with every little bit of gossip or news about Novak
HFK
Professional
********* are obsessed with Nadal. Why don't you want to talk about your guy?
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Federer requested the roof be closed in the 2018 AO final. What happened? Final was played indoors. He also didn't play a match off Centre Court at Wimbledon for like 3 years. Shocker that the stars get preferential treatment.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
We now have a situation where Djokovic will not play a single day match, something we have never seen before even with Roger, and Tommy Paul hasn't played even a single night match.
It doesn't matter how 'decimated' the draw is or isn't nor does it matter what Djokovic did or didn't do last year. I understand why you would prefer to ignore the simple truth here but it remains rather evident and it's sad to see the usual techniques employed in order to attempt to obscure it.
TheFifthSet
Legend
And wasn't it the same case when Nadal played the Australian Open last year with almost no one with whom he could exchange different match sessions?
What changed then?
Hasn’t Nadal, on many occasions, across many events and spanning many years, specifically shown a preference for and even requested day sessions? And weren’t 4 of his 5 matches day sessions last year?
A lot of good being a draw does the tournament if you’re bounced early.
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intrepidish
Hall of Fame
The question to which you replied yet again with a non-sequitur was: "How many AOs did Federer play where he didn't play even a single daytime match through the semifinals?"
And once more, as for nothing being wrong with 'money speaking' that's quite false. Tournaments have to take commerce into account, of course but they also have to take other things into account as well such as the general perception of fairness where the players are concerned more generally.
Djokovic's fans don't actually believe that commerce should trump everything of course which is why they have complained vociferously through the years whenever they perceived a bigger star like Federer to get preferential treatment, even when it was treatment far less egregious than this.
DSH
G.O.A.T.
Even Nadal plays on the Suzanne Lenglen court and at night at RG being him much better there than Djokovic is at the Australian Open.
It is clear that Tiley gave all possible facilities to Djokovic and his clan in this edition to make them happy.
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Born_to_slice
Legend
Terrible, truly terrible. I hear they even gave him coching in writing with secret strategies on how to beat Enzo Caucauad.
Hitman
Talk Tennis Guru
No one does care about Djokovic except for the record breaking attendance of paying fans.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
But it does. Please explain who you would put in the night session in place of Djokovic from the third round onwards
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
And what advantage is it really? Did the players get crushed with heat this year? No. They were playing matches in 67 degree Fahrenheit weather on some days.
The bottom half was depleted in star power when Kyrgios withdrew. Who else was going to get primetime? Ruud? He was out in round 2.
Well Tiley believes it because he likes money so that's why he was there. You're whining about nothing.
TheFifthSet
Legend
…but of course it does. It’s one variable among many. Obscuring this or that factor that actively undermines the case you’re making can be wonderfully productive in a courtroom setting, but here it just comes off as slippery.
In any event, I don’t deny that favouritism probably did make it easier for the TD’s to pull the trigger on all-night sessions for Djokovic. All of Federer, Djokovic and Nadal have been the recipients of favouritism numerous times in their career. At the same time, if you examine each individual day Djokovic was scheduled, having him play the night session was the correct business decision each time, as @Kralingen helpfully made clear.
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intrepidish
Hall of Fame
No, it really doesn't. Every single AO semi-finalist has handled being put on a court during the day and the tournament hasn't imploded as a result either. They had 2 weeks to do it and somehow couldn't manage to do it this one time with a top player who enjoys a remarkably close relationship with the tournament director.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
The horror!
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
People keep thinking that these pro tournaments are some kind of sporting contest being set up to be fair for all participants. No, it is a for profit-business trying to maximize revenue/profits and get as many fans interested as possible in attending/watching the current and future versions of the tournaments. The players are entertainers who participate in this business and make money from it too.
The days of amateur sporting contests set up just to demonstrate sporting excellence and fair records are long gone with even the Olympics being run like a business with a lot of corruption.
Tennis is a corrupt sport too in the sense of the organizer’s interests being aligned with the biggest stars to use their fame/popularity to make money for tournaments. The lower ranked players are bit players who get paid poorly - too poorly in my opinion, but it helps to keep the top players at the top for longer.
The days of amateur sporting contests set up just to demonstrate sporting excellence and fair records are long gone with even the Olympics being run like a business with a lot of corruption.
Tennis is a corrupt sport too in the sense of the organizer’s interests being aligned with the biggest stars to use their fame/popularity to make money for tournaments. The lower ranked players are bit players who get paid poorly - too poorly in my opinion, but it helps to keep the top players at the top for longer.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
No, it really doesn't. There were nearly 2 weeks to have Djokovic do what every single other top player did in every single other AO. Every single AO semi-finalist has handled being put on a court during the day and the tournament hasn't imploded as a result either. They had 2 weeks to do it and somehow couldn't manage to do it this one time with a top player who enjoys a remarkably close relationship with the tournament director.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
You can be sure that if it had been Federer playing every single night session and Djokovic getting even a few day sessions as a result, that the explanation that Federer was a much bigger draw and the tournament simply 'had to' schedule like that because 'commerce' would have been ridiculed by every single one of them.
TheFifthSet
Legend
Even Nadal plays on the Suzanne Lenglen court and at night at RG being much better there than Djokovic is at the Australian Open.
It is clear that Tiley gave all possible facilities to Djokovic and his clan in this edition to make them happy.
So, don’t address the specific point I made? Standard practice, it seems.
Yes, Djokovic probably would received favourable treatment here even if the draw didn’t open up. This is not new, and applies to all of Federer, Djokovic and Nadal.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
Ok, so how many times did Federer and Nadal play all night matches at the AO?
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
But it does. Special, unprecedented circumstances call for unprecedented solutions
It's the same as Nadal playing every match on Chatrier in 2020, when normally every player has to play at least one match on Lenglen
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