Djokovic is the weakest three-time Wimbledon champion in the Open Era

TheAssassin

Legend
Why a sore thumb? He is a great grass court player, and obviously not the only guy who has had success on modern grass. Stunning serve and return combo, and more reliable at the net than he's given credit for. Apart from 2011 he was well challenged during his Wimbledon winning runs, by more than just one opponent actually, and he was a regular presence in the 2nd week throughout his whole career. Also it would be foolish to think that he wouldn't have built/been able to build a different game in some past era, which could have easily resulted in some titles again.

I don't think he is that much better on grass than he is on clay, not to such an extent that his Roland Garros and Wimbledon titles show at least. But there was a certain freak who was/is denying him and everyone else for a long time in Paris, like nobody has ever done at any Slam before, while Djokovic's Wimbledon titles were well and hard earned. Not much if anything to moan about any sort of cakewalk draws. A worthy Wimbledon great, and I hope he can be successful there one more time.
 

Enceladus

Hall of Fame
Becker is on record not too long ago that Djokovic will win 0 Wimb in 80's and 90's grass.

Djokovic wins Wimb when it plays pseudo grass. Let us not compare his success with that of Sampras , Becker and Edberg because they played a completely different brand of grass court tennis
It could also be argued that Becker would not succeed on today's grass, as long exchanges would make Boris tired and his service would not be as effective as in the 1980s and 1990s.
On pseudo grass Federer also won all of his eight Wimbledon titles. But you are silent about this fact.
 
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Deleted member 757377

Guest
Djokovic won 2 Wimbledon finals against Federer who was coming from a 24 sets to 1 and a 27 sets to 1 streak :-D:-D
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
Don't forget that was peak Federer according to Federer.
Of course he was, and I don't even need Federer's words.

Owning the field in a 10 years more modern era than his supposed peak.
 

thrust

Hall of Fame
Wow, people still hung up over Djokovic's 4th wimbledon?

In essence:
2011 - invalid since Tsonga took out Federer and Nadal was in mental decline
2014- invalid, since Fed was not at his peak, Nadal nowhere to be found.
2015 - invalid he played an even weak Federer who was about to retire.Djokovic is a perennial grass mug because Anderson took him to 5 sets
2018 - roof, roof, roof.

All the above just about sums it up well. Let me know if I understood it right.
PATHETIC EXCUSES! Djokovic is a 4 time Wimbledon Champion, accept the Reality!
 

Sport

Legend
Of course he was, and I don't even need Federer's words.

Owning the field in a 10 years more modern era than his supposed peak.
As long as you accept that his peak did not start in 2015 at age 34, fine. If you want, 2015 could be his last year at his peak. But no one starts his peak at age 34. Federer's peak started approximately in 2004 at age 22. No single sportsman starts his peak at age 34.

Michael Jordan: started his peak in 1986 at age 23.
LeBron James: started his peak in 2006 at age 21.
Kobe Bryant: started his peak in 2000 at age 22.
Cristiano Ronaldo: started his peak in 2008 at age 23.
Lionel Messi: started his peak in 2010 at age 23.
Novak Djokovic: started his peak approximately in 2011 at age 23.
Rafael Nadal: started his peak in all surfaces in 2008 at age 22.

A little physical decline starts at age 29-30. That's why 30 years old Usain Bolt performed significantly worse in the Olympics 2016 compared with the Olympics 2012 and Olympics 2008.

The greatest of all time (Jordan, James, Cristiano, Messi, Nadal, Djokovic, etc.) keep dominating their sport in their early 30s. So if you want to call "peak" the late 30s, fine. But no single sportstman in the history of humankind has ever started his peak at age 34. That's simply stupid.
 

Goret

Rookie
Being able to win Wimbledon (or any Slam event) 4 times is pretty strong, so being the least strong among the list is certainly no shame anyway. It's for sure much better than being the strongest who won only once or twice...
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
As long as you accept that his peak did not start in 2015 at age 34, fine. If you want, 2015 could be his last year at his peak. But no one starts his peak at age 34. Federer's peak started approximately in 2004 at age 22. No single sportsman starts his peak at age 34.

Michael Jordan: started his peak in 1986 at age 23.
LeBron James: started his peak in 2006 at age 21.
Kobe Bryant: started his peak in 2000 at age 22.
Cristiano Ronaldo: started his peak in 2008 at age 23.
Lionel Messi: started his peak in 2010 at age 23.
Novak Djokovic: started his peak approximately in 2011 at age 23.
Rafael Nadal: started his peak in all surfaces in 2008 at age 22.

A little physical decline starts at age 29-30. That's why 30 years old Usain Bolt performed significantly worse in the Olympics 2016 compared with the Olympics 2012 and Olympics 2008.

The greatest of all time (Jordan, James, Cristiano, Messi, Nadal, Djokovic, etc.) keep dominating their sport in their early 30s. So if you want to call "peak" the late 30s, fine. But no single sportstman in the history of humankind has ever started his peak at age 34. That's simply stupid.
I told you Kipchoge set his personal and world record in the marathon at 34.

So he peaked at 34.

And marathon is not even based on technique as tennis.
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
As long as you accept that his peak did not start in 2015 at age 34, fine. If you want, 2015 could be his last year at his peak. But no one starts his peak at age 34. Federer's peak started approximately in 2004 at age 22. No single sportsman starts his peak at age 34.

Michael Jordan: started his peak in 1986 at age 23.
LeBron James: started his peak in 2006 at age 21.
Kobe Bryant: started his peak in 2000 at age 22.
Cristiano Ronaldo: started his peak in 2008 at age 23.
Lionel Messi: started his peak in 2010 at age 23.
Novak Djokovic: started his peak approximately in 2011 at age 23.
Rafael Nadal: started his peak in all surfaces in 2008 at age 22.

A little physical decline starts at age 29-30. That's why 30 years old Usain Bolt performed significantly worse in the Olympics 2016 compared with the Olympics 2012 and Olympics 2008.

The greatest of all time (Jordan, James, Cristiano, Messi, Nadal, Djokovic, etc.) keep dominating their sport in their early 30s. So if you want to call "peak" the late 30s, fine. But no single sportstman in the history of humankind has ever started his peak at age 34. That's simply stupid.
You did not read scientific paper I gave you? You are not allowed to join the class until you read it. I will ask you few questions to check.
 

Sport

Legend
You did not read scientific paper I gave you? You are not allowed to join the class until you read it. I will ask you few questions to check.
Which scientific paper? You dind't post anything. It is a well-stablished fact that humans start to physically decline in their 30s, specially in their mid-30s. That explains why Usain Bolt at age 30 performed significantly worse at the Olympics 2016 than at the Olympics 2012 or 2008.

What class? The pseudoscientific class? No thanks I don't want to join the class of Pseudoscience 101, according to which the physical peak is 34 years old.
 
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Sport

Legend
I told you Kipchoge set his personal and world record in the marathon at 34.

So he peaked at 34.

And marathon is not even based on technique as tennis.
Marathon is based on resistence, not velocity. Tennis is also based on velocity. Federer at age 34 was not able to run as fast as in his 20s, so he couldn't defend as well.
 
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ABCD

Hall of Fame
Which scientific paper? You dind't post anything. It is a well-stablished fact that humans start to physically decline in their 30s, specially in their mid-30s. That explains why Usain Bolt at age 30 performed significantly worse at the Olympics 2016 than at the Olympics 2012 or 2008.

What class? The pseudoscientific class? No thanks I don't want to join the class of Pseudoscience 101, according to which the physical peak is 34 years old.
This one (see below). Tell me when you red it and I will check whether you understand anything. Over 70 students got their postgraduate degree with me.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3625029/
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
Marathon is based on resistence, not velocity. Tennis is also based on velocity. Federer at age 34 was not able to run as fast as in his 20s, so he couldn't defend as well.

Marathon men are quite fast too, sure faster than tennis players.

Anyway I find one sportsman who objectively peaked at 34, you were wrong.
 

Sport

Legend
This one (see below). Tell me when you red it and I will check whether you understand anything. Over 70 students got their postgraduate degree with me.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3625029/
Those are marathon runners. It doesn't refute the physical decline in the 30s, since marathon is more based on resistence than velocity. As everyone knows, Usain Bolt declined in speed in his 30s.

Also, there are plenty of scientific studies which indicate that the quality of men's semen decreases earlier than at age 35, so of course there is a physical decline before the 35 years of age.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12571189
 

merlinpinpin

Hall of Fame
Djokovic won 2 Wimbledon finals against Federer who was coming from a 24 sets to 1 and a 27 sets to 1 streak :-D:-D
Federer who? The guy you're spouting dozen of new threads every week to explain that he's the worst slam winner of the Open Era? And Djokovic should be proud that he's beaten this nobody, not once, but twice in a slam final? Seriously? Do you even read your own posts? Cause it's pretty bad when the right side of your brain can't agree with the left.
 

Sport

Legend

Marathon men are quite fast too, sure faster than tennis players.

Anyway I find one sportsman who objectively peaked at 34, you were wrong.
Not in tennis, football or basquetball which require a different set of physical skills, including velocity. Please tell me of one tennis/football/basketball player who peaked at age 34.

And explain why Bolt performed so bad at the Olympics 2016 in comparison with 2012 and 2008, and why did he start his physical decline in his early 30s, if supposedly at that age you can't start your physically decline.
 
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Deleted member 757377

Guest
Not in tennis, football or basquetball which require a different set of physical skills, including velocity. Please tell me of one tennis/football/basketball player who peaked at age 34.

And explain why Bolt performed so bad at the Olympics 2016 in comparison with 2012 and 2008, and why did he start his physical decline in his early 30s, if supposedly at that age you can't start your physically decline.
Football and tennis peak can't be proven as in athletics.
 
But he will first have to advanced to the SF of GS tournament, through Bo5 matches. Big Mac with Bo5 matches didn't have problems.
It’s a fair point. Zverev to date has had issues with Bo5 matches, where true champions are made. I believe however that Lendl will instill the right mentality in Zverev to succeed in the majors.
 

Druss

Hall of Fame
Those are marathon runners. It doesn't refute the physical decline in the 30s, since marathon is more based on resistence than velocity. As everyone knows, Usain Bolt declined in speed in his 30s.

Also, there are plenty of scientific studies which indicate that the quality of men's semen decreases earlier than at age 35, so of course there is a physical decline before the 35 years of age.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12571189
In actual fact, Bolt already started to decline in speed by his late 28s. Not by much, but noticeable.
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
And explain why Bolt performed so bad at the Olympics 2016 in comparison with 2012 and 2008, and why did he start his physical decline in his early 30s, if supposedly at that age you can't start your physically decline.
LOL no one wrote that. You went from "peaking at 34 in a sport is not possible" to "you can phisically decline in your 30s".

Two totally different things.

Anyway you should take into account athletes losing motivation and having less training.
 

uscwang

Hall of Fame
Think about the grass legends who have been triple champions (or more) at Wimbledon in the Open Era;

Federer - 7
Sampras - 7
Borg - 5
Becker - 3
McEnroe - 3
Djokovic - 3

Borg is the only other baseliner on the list, and his grass prowess cannot be questioned, defeating the likes of McEnroe and big-serving Tanner on the surface.

Djokovic sticks out like a sore thumb here. Weird thing is, he's probably better on clay than on grass, yet he's never won the FO...
Don't you think that Novak is the weakest 3-time US Open winner? Come on, you can.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Fact: Nadal is also the weakest 11 time French Open champion in world history

Also fact: fedr is also the weakest GS champion aged 37 or above
 

djokovic2008

Hall of Fame
Djokovic has probably overachieved slightly at Wimbledon and on grass in general, particularly considering his career isnt over and he is likely to add more. I guess it is compensation for his underachieving at the French and even U.S Opens.

Honestly the grass competition in this era isnt that strong though. You have a 2 time Wimby Champion and 5 time finalist who many times cant survive early rounds against nobodies at Wimbledon (Nadal). The weak grass era has aided Djokovic, but it has also aided Federer to win 7 titles. I sort of consider Sampras still superior to Federer on grass since the grass competition in that era was definitely tougher. People say this is a weak clay era, but the same is even more true of grass. This is definitely a hard court/baseliner specialist type era.
I go along with most of what you have said but even in this era grass is still a very hard surface to dominate on. On any given day a player can serve out of his mind and win, look at Tsonga vs fed or Rosol vs Nadal. For Djokovic to be so consistent on grass is fantastic not forgetting his record at eastbourne and queens.
 

BGod

Legend
Just have to look at the competition.

Of course if we compare Novak to Becker-Sampras-Borg-McEnroe he looks weak.

Becker as stated above lost Finals he shouldn't have.

The Federer name goes far but when you consider 2010-2011 and 2014-15 doesn't fet you a very strong opponent for Novak.

Nadal is also a pretty bad grass player in all-time ranking.

Now here's a fun thought. On 90s grass Roddick probably beats Federer.
 

swordtennis

Legend
Just have to look at the competition.

Of course if we compare Novak to Becker-Sampras-Borg-McEnroe he looks weak.

Becker as stated above lost Finals he shouldn't have.

The Federer name goes far but when you consider 2010-2011 and 2014-15 doesn't fet you a very strong opponent for Novak.

Nadal is also a pretty bad grass player in all-time ranking.

Now here's a fun thought. On 90s grass Roddick probably beats Federer.
Jesus ****ing christ the roddick brainwashing revisionism on here is greater than even i thought. May the gods have mercy on our souls!
 
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