Djokovic is very underrated!

[jg153040]

I truly believe this. Just look how tough his competition was.
In every major final he had either Fed/Rafa/Murray.

For most of his majors he had to beat those guys BACK TO BACK. He doesn't get lucky breaks like Gonzo, Berdych, Soderling in finals.

I mean he is better than Rafa indoor and on HC. For the last 5 years he is even better on grass than Rafa. Since 2008, Djokovic record on grass is better than Nadal's. And he beat Nadal in W final. Not just beat, Nadal didn't even have a chance, match wasn't even close.

I think overall those guys are actually equals. Nadal a bit better on grass, but those were early years when Novak was developing. Last 5 years Nole is better. I mean give Nole Berdych in W final and he gets 2 W wins too.

Nadal has the edge on clay, but Djokovic has the edge indoor and HC.
But all things aren't created equal. HC is almost entire tennis today.

I mean even the h2h it's pretty even except on clay. Djokovic just had very tougher competition. Every USO he had to play Fed, who is a bad matchup for him.

otudoor HC: Djokovic
grass: about even considering last 5 years
clay: Rafa
indoor HC : Djokovic

So, those guys are pretty equal considering Djokovic had tougher competition overall. I don't know why he was experimenting with his racket and his serve to prolong his development.

May point is that Djokovic is underrated and him and Rafa are equals.

 

[Backspin1183]

Last 5 years, Murray is better than Federer on HCs. Murray is underrated. I think he and Roger Federer are equal.

 

[clayqueen]

I truly believe this. Just look how tough his competition was.
In every major final he had either Fed/Rafa/Murray.

For most of his majors he had to beat those guys BACK TO BACK. He doesn't get lucky breaks like Gonzo, Berdych, Soderling in finals.

I mean he is better than Rafa indoor and on HC. For the last 5 years he is even better on grass than Rafa. Since 2008, Djokovic record on grass is better than Nadal's. And he beat Nadal in W final. Not just beat, Nadal didn't even have a chance, match wasn't even close.

I think overall those guys are actually equals. Nadal a bit better on grass, but those were early years when Novak was developing. Last 5 years Nole is better. I mean give Nole Berdych in W final and he gets 2 W wins too.

Nadal has the edge on clay, but Djokovic has the edge indoor and HC.
But all things aren't created equal.

I mean even the h2h it's pretty even except on clay. Djokovic just had very tougher competition. Every USO he had to play Fed, who is a bad matchup for him.

otudoor HC: Djokovic
grass: about even considering last 5 years
clay: Rafa
indoor HC : Djokovic

So, those guys are pretty equal considering Djokovic had tougher competition overall. I don't know why he was experimenting with his racket and his serve to prolong his development.

My point is that Djokovic is underrated and him and Rafa are equals.

Oh, so 13=6.

Have you forgotten that Berdych actually beat Djoker on his way to the final where Rafa disposed of Berdych in 3 easy straight sets in 2010.

2010 Wimbledon
Great Britain Grass S Berdych, Tomas
6-3, 7-6(9), 6-3 Stats

I think you suffer from Nadalitis. Go and get something for it, fast.

 

[Graf=GOAT]

Djokovic has a 6-6 slam record with 1-4 USO record. He's a decent all time great, roughly in league of guys like Becker and Wilander. To be truly tier 1 elite, he needs 4-5 more slams, preferably outside of Melbourne.

 

[Cup8489]

tl;dr: Djokovic is my favorite and I'm annoyed that he doesn't get mentioned in the same breadth as guys who have much better credentials.

 

[jg153040]

Oh, so 13=6.

Have you forgotten that Berdych actually beat Djoker on his way to the final where Rafa disposed of Berdych in 3 easy straight sets in 2010.

2010 Wimbledon
Great Britain Grass S Berdych, Tomas
6-3, 7-6(9), 6-3 Stats

I think you suffer from Nadalitis. Go and get something for it, fast.

Yes 13=6. Considering Nole had tougher competition.

If Rafa is so much better, why do they have similar weeks at nr.1?

 

[Who Am I?]

I agree. Nole along with Federer is underrated, whereas Nadal is so overrated.

 

[jg153040]

Djokovic has a 6-6 slam record with 1-4 USO record. He's a decent all time great, roughly in league of guys like Becker and Wilander. To be truly tier 1 elite, he needs 4-5 more slams, preferably outside of Melbourne.

Yes, but look at Nole's competition. In USO he always had prime Fed on his way.

In all major finals he had FED/Murray/Rafa.

I mean give Nole: Puerta, Jouzny, Ferrer, Soderling in finals and he has 10 major by now. And Nole had Fed in most of the semis too.

Also he had to beat FEd/Rafa/Murray back to back most of his majors. When did

I mean look at Rafa's USO semis draws. Compared to that Nole always had prime FED in semis/final.

In consistency Rafa and Nole are about the same. Similar numbers of weeks nr.1. Just Nole had much, much tougher draws at semis/finals every time. So, equals.

 

[NatF]

Djokovic is overrated based on his incredible 2011 season. Since then he's been patchy. He's around Wilander in terms if greatness, bellow Becker.

 

[jg153040]

tl;dr: Djokovic is my favorite and I'm annoyed that he doesn't get mentioned in the same breadth as guys who have much better credentials.

Yeah. I mean look at Nole's consistency. About the same as Nadal in weeks nr.1.

Just Nadal has more majors because Nole's competition in all of his semis/finals was a nightmare.

In their ability the are equal in my opinion.

 

[Backspin1183]

Yeah. I mean look at Nole's consistency. About the same as Nadal in weeks nr.1.

Just Nadal has more majors because Nole's competition in all of his semis/finals was a nightmare.

In their ability the are equal in my opinion.

In your opinion, yes, of course
it's ok to have an opinion like that.

 

[jg153040]

Djokovic is overrated based on his incredible 2011 season. Since then he's been patchy. He's around Wilander in terms if greatness, bellow Becker.

Patchy? Are you kidding me? Since that he was the best player. He has 2 majors, the same as Rafa and Murray. But in consistency he owns them.

He has most finals, most weeks at nr.1, most WTF titles. When competition is the toughest and the elite plays Murray and Rafa have 0 WTF titles. I mean, come on.

And that is not even including 2011.

 

[jg153040]

In your opinion, yes, of course
it's ok to have an opinion like that.

It's not that crazy. How is that crazier than suggesting Nadal is equal in ability as Fed, even when Fed owns him in achievements.

My opinion has a lot of basis.

I mean people say Rafa is equal to Fed and he has 102 weeks vs 302 weeks.

Nole has about 98 weeks. So, it's logical to assume they are equals.

I mean yes Nadal is more successful than Novak, but Nole leads in consistency. I mean his semi streak. And he made like what almost every GS final the last 3 years?

 

[Graf=GOAT]

Yes, but look at Nole's competition. In USO he always had prime Fed on his way.

In all major finals he had FED/Murray/Rafa.

I mean give Nole: Puerta, Jouzny, Ferrer, Soderling in finals and he has 10 major by now. And Nole had Fed in most of the semis too.

Also he had to beat FEd/Rafa/Murray back to back most of his majors. When did

I mean look at Rafa's USO semis draws. Compared to that Nole always had prime FED in semis/final.

In consistency Rafa and Nole are about the same. Similar numbers of weeks nr.1. Just Nole had much, much tougher draws at semis/finals every time. So, equals.

I kind of agree with you, but I think it's Djokovic's bad luck to play in era of GOAT (Fed) and tier 1 great (Nadal). But then again, many players' careers have been damaged by those 2. They have 30 slams between them. Djokovic did well to win his 6 IMO.

 

[jg153040]

I kind of agree with you, but I think it's Djokovic's bad luck to play in era of GOAT (Fed) and tier 1 great (Nadal). But then again, many players' careers have been damaged by those 2. They have 30 slams between them. Djokovic did well to win his 6 IMO.

Not only that, he also had to play Murray 2.0. I mean Rafa didn't have to play Murray 2.0 yet. Not his fault, but still.

Yeah, I think Djokovic had a bad luck. I mean Rafa sometimes avoids tough competition. Fed too.

But Novak always had Fed/Murray 2.0/Nadal in every freaking major. And in a lot of them he had them back to back.

But Fed and Rafa are declining now. And Nole looks fresh, so he will have his share of the luck hopefully in next years and prove he is the real deal.

 

[Cup8489]

Patchy? Are you kidding me? Since that he was the best player. He has 2 majors, the same as Rafa and Murray. But in consistency he owns them.

He has most finals, most weeks at nr.1, most WTF titles. When competition is the toughest and the elite plays Murray and Rafa have 0 WTF titles. I mean, come on.

And that is not even including 2011.

Nadal has won 3 majors since 2011. And is number 1 despite missing the AO and losing in 1R of Wimbledon.

 

[jg153040]

Nadal has won 3 majors since 2011. And is number 1 despite missing the AO and losing in 1R of Wimbledon.

Yeah Nadal did sort of redeem himself with 2013 for horrible 11/12.

But I'm still not convinced. It's 3 majors vs 2, but Nole had Murray 2.0 on his way. Nole won 2 WTF titles and Rafa losing 1st and 2nd rounds is what still puts nole on top.

We will see how 2014 goes, I guess.

 

[Forehand Of Doom]

I agree. Nole is very tough competition for Nadal.

 

[Backspin1183]

Yeah Nadal did sort of redeem himself with 2013 for horrible 11/12.

But I'm still not convinced. It's 3 majors vs 2, but Nole had Murray 2.0 on his way. Nole won 2 WTF titles and Rafa losing 1st and 2nd rounds is what still puts nole on top.

We will see how 2014 goes, I guess.

Yes, we'll see how 2014 goes. We need to form a prayer circle for Nadal to have a slamless year.

Hail Roger!

 

[Chanwan]

Yes, but look at Nole's competition. In USO he always had prime Fed on his way.

In all major finals he had FED/Murray/Rafa.

I mean give Nole: Puerta, Jouzny, Ferrer, Soderling in finals and he has 10 major by now. And Nole had Fed in most of the semis too.

Also he had to beat FEd/Rafa/Murray back to back most of his majors. When did

I mean look at Rafa's USO semis draws. Compared to that Nole always had prime FED in semis/final.

In consistency Rafa and Nole are about the same. Similar numbers of weeks nr.1. Just Nole had much, much tougher draws at semis/finals every time. So, equals.

Nole had Tsonga for his first slam. Nole and Fed played once in a slam final (US 2007). They did meet five times at the US Open, but you cannot claim Fed was prime each and every year of those years.

Overall, I agree that he (and Murray even more so - no Tsonga, Puerta, Philipoussis in his first slam final - nor in his second, third, fourth, fifth or six) had it tougher. But it doesn't mean that 6 = 13 or 2 = 6 or 13.

 

[sbengte]

Yes, but look at Nole's competition. In USO he always had prime Fed on his way.

In all major finals he had FED/Murray/Rafa.

I mean give Nole: Puerta, Jouzny, Ferrer, Soderling in finals and he has 10 major by now. And Nole had Fed in most of the semis too.

Also he had to beat FEd/Rafa/Murray back to back most of his majors. When did

I mean look at Rafa's USO semis draws. Compared to that Nole always had prime FED in semis/final.

In consistency Rafa and Nole are about the same. Similar numbers of weeks nr.1. Just Nole had much, much tougher draws at semis/finals every time. So, equals.

Brilliant ! Novak played Fed in semis at every slam 4+ years in a row with just two exceptions. He didn't have Nadal like draws/luck facing Youzhny,Melzer etc in semis.

I'd like to see Nadal fans countering any of your points with facts/data. Something tells me all you will get is personal attack and name calling ;-)

 

[jg153040]

Yes, we'll see how 2014 goes. We need to form a prayer circle for Nadal to have a slamless year.

Hail Roger!

You are kidding yourself. Nadal won't have a slamless year. Nadal and Djokovic are gaining on Fed and I can see you sweat lol.

And you hoping young guys stopping them doesn't seem to work.

Hail Rafa and King Nole!

 

[jg153040]

Brilliant ! Novak played Fed in semis at every slam 4+ years in a row with just two exceptions. He didn't have Nadal like draws/luck facing Youzhny,Melzer etc in semis.

I'd like to see Nadal fans countering any of your points with facts/data. Something tells me all you will get is personal attack and name calling ;-)

Yeah I get attacked just suggesting Djokovic might be as good as Nadal even when a lot of facts support this claim.

I'm not even saying he is better. But just suggesting he might be equal seems a personal attack for some fans here.

 

[Chanwan]

Patchy? Are you kidding me? Since that he was the best player. He has 2 majors, the same as Rafa and Murray. But in consistency he owns them.

He has most finals, most weeks at nr.1, most WTF titles. When competition is the toughest and the elite plays Murray and Rafa have 0 WTF titles. I mean, come on.

And that is not even including 2011.

ehhhm - Rafa's won 3 slams since 2011. But facts can be very subjective too.

On the main point, I agree though. Judged over the last three years, Nole has been the best player. Judged over the last two, it's debatable. Probably he does have a slight edge (more finals, more weeks at No. 1, two WTF's, but it's possible to make a case for Nadal as well (though those early Wimbledon loses and missing slams does not help his case).

 

[Backspin1183]

Yeah I get attacked just suggesting Djokovic might be as good as Nadal even when a lot of facts support this claim.

I'm not even saying he is better. But just suggesting he might be equal seems a personal attack for some fans here.

Did you know that Nadal at one point was 16-7 vs Djokovic before 2011 and unbeaten against the Serb in slams?

I don't think the draws were ever rigged. If it were true, it might have been done to protect Federer from Murray who had a winning h2h vs Federer.

 

[jg153040]

ehhhm - Rafa's won 3 slams since 2011. But facts can be very subjective too.

On the main point, I agree though. Judged over the last three years, Nole has been the best player. Judged over the last two, it's debatable. Probably he does have a slight edge (more finals, more weeks at No. 1, two WTF's, but it's possible to make a case for Nadal as well (though those early Wimbledon loses and missing slams does not help his case).

I agree. I think those early losses tip the scale to Djokovic. I mean 1st round loss, 2nd round loss at W and skipping AO (which almost the same as losing in 1st round), tips the scales.

I guess the next three years will show us if my theory about Djokovic is correct or not.

For being unlucky in competition he might get his share of the luck by Murray injured, Fed gone, Nadal declining. So he might win 10 majors and more weeks nr.1 to prove my theory.

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

overrated/underrated, bla bla bla... considering Djokovic and Nadal are almost the same age, it's Djokovic responsibility for not being able to win a grand slam before 2008 when Rafa had 5 already at the end of 2008.

It's Djokovic own fault and no one else, deal with it.

 

[Chanwan]

Brilliant ! Novak played Fed in semis at every slam 4+ years in a row with just two exceptions. He didn't have Nadal like draws/luck facing Youzhny,Melzer etc in semis.

I'd like to see Nadal fans countering any of your points with facts/data. Something tells me all you will get is personal attack and name calling ;-)

When you 3rd or 4th, you're supposed to have a tougher draw than when you 1st and 2nd.
That said, Nole, Fed (and perhaps Murray too) were unlucky with Djokovic' landing in Federer's draw each and every time save a few French Opens.

However, since we are arguing draws, let's not forget to mention, who got lucky, once Nadal withdrew. Nole had Ferrer in his half for both the US Open and Australian Open, whereas Federer (seeded 1st and 2nd respectively) had Murray both times. Give Fed Djokovic' draw at this year's Australian Open and suddenly he and Murray are equal favorites with Djokovic.

Overall, Djokovic had it tough though. Murray even tougher.

 

[Graf=GOAT]

Yes, we'll see how 2014 goes. We need to form a prayer circle for Nadal to have a slamless year.

Hail Roger!

Sadly, I doubt Nadal will have a slamless year. I just hope he doesn't have another multi slam year at this point

 

[Chanwan]

overrated/underrated, bla bla bla... considering Djokovic and Nadal are almost the same age, it's Djokovic responsibility for not being able to win a grand slam before 2008 when Rafa had 5 already at the end of 2008.

It's Djokovic own fault and no one else, deal with it.

Nadal had 2 at the same age compared to when Djokovic won his first. And three in actual time. But yes, Djokovic had the game to compete in 2007/2008 and onwards. But didn't become a major factor again until late 2010.

 

[Backspin1183]

overrated/underrated, bla bla bla... considering Djokovic and Nadal are almost the same age, it's Djokovic responsibility for not being able to win a grand slam before 2008 when Rafa had 5 already at the end of 2008.

It's Djokovic own fault and no one else, deal with it.

IMO Nole fans are happy with what he's achieved so far and don't claim him to be as great as Nadal.

It's the Fedts who are hell bent on making Djokovic Nadal's equal but both below Federer.

 

[Backspin1183]

Sadly, I doubt Nadal will have a slamless year. I just hope he doesn't have another multi slam year at this point

Sadly, you might be right

Let's hope Djokovic, Murray and Delpo prevent him from having another multi slam year.

 

[Chanwan]

Did you know that Nadal at one point was 16-7 vs Djokovic before 2011 and unbeaten against the Serb in slams?

I don't think the draws were ever rigged. If it were true, it might have been done to protect Federer from Murray who had a winning h2h vs Federer.

Or to protect Nadal from meeting Djokovic in a HC slam. When he was 16-7 (at the end of 2010, he was 5-7 on HC, 2-0 on grass and 9-0 on clay (the only surface, where they were allowed to meet in the semis in a slam - Wimbledon 2007, Djoko was seeded fifth, so it doesn't count in this aspect).

 

[Backspin1183]

Or to protect Nadal from meeting Djokovic in a HC slam. When he was 16-7 (at the end of 2010, he was 5-7 on HC, 2-0 on grass and 9-0 on clay (the only surface, where they were allowed to meet in the semis in a slam - Wimbledon 2007, Djoko was seeded fifth, so it doesn't count in this aspect).

Makes sense. Nadal needed a protection from someone he led 16-7 h2h.

LOL Nadal didn't need to be protected from anyone except the Davy

 

[sbengte]

When you 3rd or 4th, you're supposed to have a tougher draw than when you 1st and 2nd.

In theory, yes. But what is tough also depends on who is occupying which ranking spot at the time, matchups among the top 4 etc. For eg. say, when Nadal was ranked #4, and Federer was #1, I am sure he would prefer playing Murray/Djoker , ranked #2 or #3 in the semis instead of Nadal, ranked #4. Similarly, Nadal would prefer the 'tough' draw of playing #1 ranked Federer than a Murray/Djoker ranked #3/#4 who match up much better against him.

 

[jg153040]

Nadal had 2 at the same age compared to when Djokovic won his first. And three in actual time. But yes, Djokovic had the game to compete in 2007/2008 and onwards. But didn't become a major factor again until late 2010.

I think it him experimenting too much with his racket really prolonged his development. Him and his coach also hired a guy to help Novak's serve and he ruined it. Nole needed like almost 3 years to get it back.

In 2008 Nole was gaining on Fed and Nadal already. I don't know why when he was doing so well he started to experiment and remove things that worked.

In 2008 Nole won AO, played Rafa even tough on clay. He would just need to be patient and stick with his formula a bit and results would come sooner.

 

[Forehand Of Doom]

I think it him experimenting too much with his racket really prolonged his development. Him and his coach also hired a guy to help Novak's serve and he ruined it. Nole needed like almost 3 years to get it back.

In 2008 Nole was gaining on Fed and Nadal already. I don't know why when he was doing so well he started to experiment and remove things that worked.

In 2008 Nole won AO, played Rafa even tough on clay. He would just need to be patient and stick with his formula a bit and results would come sooner.

Nadal is not worthy of being the best of his era, because his opponents had to deal with insurmountable odds. Federer had to deal with Nadal's lefty high topspin. Djokovic had to deal with the gluten and years of unproductive racquet experimentation. Murray had to deal with the Haggis Scare of 2007. :lol:

 

[Chanwan]

Makes sense. Nadal needed a protection from someone he led 16-7 h2h.

LOL Nadal didn't need to be protected from anyone except the Davy

I specifically mentioned the hard court h2h to avoid that kind of response.....
Who was the better player of Nole and Murray between 2007 and 2011?
Djokovic.
Who did Nadal face almost each and every time? Murray.

Yes, Fed has a worse h2h with Murray overall, but when they met in slams, he was solid. And by the end of 2010, his HC h2h with Murray (which happened to be the only surface they had met on) was 8-6 - more or less identical with the 7-5 for Djokovic vs. Nadal.

I don't know if they rigged the draws and for whom they did it. But you can make the case as much for Nadal's sake as you can for Federer, perhaps even more given Djokovic was the better player compared to Murray.
More likely, if it indeed was rigged, it was perhaps for both, because they wanted Fedal finals. And imagined Fed could take out Djokovic better than Nadal and Nadal could take out Murray better than Fed.

 

[Chanwan]

Nadal is not worthy of being the best of his era, because his opponents had to deal with insurmountable odds. Federer had to deal with Nadal's lefty high topspin. Djokovic had to deal with the gluten and years of unproductive racquet experimentation. Murray had to deal with the Haggis Scare of 2007. :lol:

Hohohohohoo

 

[Chanwan]

I think it him experimenting too much with his racket really prolonged his development. Him and his coach also hired a guy to help Novak's serve and he ruined it. Nole needed like almost 3 years to get it back.

In 2008 Nole was gaining on Fed and Nadal already. I don't know why when he was doing so well he started to experiment and remove things that worked.

In 2008 Nole won AO, played Rafa even tough on clay. He would just need to be patient and stick with his formula a bit and results would come sooner.

As far as I recall, there where a couple of matches or tournaments in 2008, where Novak had the chance of surpassing Nadal at second.

And yes, there was some racquet experimentation - didn't he want to be the head of a racquet, whereas he was 2nd behind Federer with Wilson -> and then shifted to HEAD at the end of 2008? I think it was like that.

And the serve costs him too.

However, it wasn't until 2009, he played Rafa really tough on clay (the Madrid semi in particular). He took a set in Hamburg in 2008, but lost at RG in straights.

 

[Backspin1183]

I specifically mentioned the hard court h2h to avoid that kind of response.....
Who was the better player of Nole and Murray between 2007 and 2011?
Djokovic.
Who did Nadal face almost each and every time? Murray.

Yes, Fed has a worse h2h with Murray overall, but when they met in slams, he was solid. And by the end of 2010, his HC h2h with Murray (which happened to be the only surface they had met on) was 8-6 - more or less identical with the 7-5 for Djokovic vs. Nadal.

I don't know if they rigged the draws and for whom they did it. But you can make the case as much for Nadal's sake as you can for Federer, perhaps even more given Djokovic was the better player compared to Murray.
More likely, if it indeed was rigged, it was perhaps for both, because they wanted Fedal finals. And imagined Fed could take out Djokovic better than Nadal and Nadal could take out Murray better than Fed.

Well, they all wanted FeDal finals and no Djokovic/Murray surprise lol
But I doubt the draws were rigged. Such a thing couldn't be kept hidden for this long. The ITF/ATP would lose a lot if it were true.

 

[5555]

Djokovic is overrated based on his incredible 2011 season. Since then he's been patchy. He's around Wilander in terms if greatness, bellow Becker.

Is it a fact or an opinion?

 

[Backspin1183]

Is it a fact or an opinion?

Djokovic without his 2011 season wouldn't be an all time great. He'd only be a very good HC specialist for his 3 AO titles.

What do you think?

 

[Sentinel]

Nadal is not worthy of being the best of his era, because his opponents had to deal with insurmountable odds. Federer had to deal with Nadal's lefty high topspin. Djokovic had to deal with the gluten and years of unproductive racquet experimentation. Murray had to deal with the Haggis Scare of 2007. :lol:

He survived a shooting at school which affected him adversely. Convenient for Nadal who had a sheltered life.

 

[Forehand Of Doom]

Djokovic without his 2011 season wouldn't be an all time great. He'd only be a very good HC specialist for his 3 AO titles.

What do you think?

Are you saying that he is an all time great now? I guess if you consider Boris Becker an all time great, then yes. So Tier 1 + Tier 2 + Tier 3 = All Time Greats?

 

[Chanwan]

Well, they all wanted FeDal finals and no Djokovic/Murray surprise lol
But I doubt the draws were rigged. Such a thing couldn't be kept hidden for this long. The ITF/ATP would lose a lot if it were true.

I really don't know what to think as terms in rigged on not. On the one hand, I think you're right - it would be very, very hard to keep hidden. On the other hand, wasn't it 17 out of 18 that Federer and Djokovic were scheduled to meet?
That's highly unlikely, statistically speaking.

Just did a quick google search and this popped up:
"Facts and statistics strongly indicate that draws at the Grand Slam tournaments 2008-2011 might have been fixed
at the very top of men's tennis. Namely, in 12 out of 12 Grand Slam tournaments played on hard and grass courts
between 2008-2011, Federer and Djokovic were always drawn to the same half of the draw, while Nadal and
Murray were drawn to the other half. In addition, in five of those 12 tournaments Murray was not among the first
four seeded players, so his draw was conducted separately five times. Thus, the statistics are as follows: to get the
same result 12 out of 12 times, probability is 1 in 4096. For the case of Murray's separate draws which produced
the same result 5 out of 5 times, it is 1 in 32. THEREFORE, THE PROBABILITY TO OBTAIN DRAW RESULTS AS
OBTAINED AT THE 12 GRAND SLAM TOURNAMENTS IS 131072 TO 1 (4096 x 32 = 131072). Combined"

http://www.playthegame.org/fileadmin/image/knowledgebank/Tennisdraws_Katarina_Pijetlovic.pdf

 

[Backspin1183]

Are you saying that he is an all time great now? I guess if you consider Boris Becker an all time great, then yes. So Tier 1 + Tier 2 + Tier 3 = All Time Greats?

Most tennis experts say he is. He may not be a Nadal but he's won USO and Wimbledon apart from his 4 AO titles.

 

[Chanwan]

Well, they all wanted FeDal finals and no Djokovic/Murray surprise lol
But I doubt the draws were rigged. Such a thing couldn't be kept hidden for this long. The ITF/ATP would lose a lot if it were true.

Actually, the study I just found (http://www.playthegame.org/fileadmin/image/knowledgebank/Tennisdraws_Katarina_Pijetlovic.pdf) give quite convincing arguments. Have a look, if you want.

Here are some other details:
"CONNECTION TO ESPN RESEARCH 
Recent research conducted by ESPN’s “Outside The Lines” demonstrated that computer‐generated part of the 
draw at US Open which supposed to randomly distribute the unseeded players in the draw sheet has likely been 
rigged for the past ten years to ensure that the top 2 players face the easiest possible opponents in the first 
round. “It is still possible though…in sport just like in life anomalies can happen” said Chris Widmaier of US Tennis 
Association. But statistical analysis conducted by Dr. Andrew Swift produced as easy opponents in the first round 
in only 4 out of million simulations! "By itself, the U.S. [Open] numbers are weird," he said. "And then they're 
also weird in comparison to the other three Grand Slams. So you've got a double argument of weirdness here. 
Something weird is going on." 

"CONCLUSION 
The probability that the two incredible coincidences (i.e., hand‐draws of seeded players at the three Grand Slams, 
and the computer generated draws of unseeded players at the US Open) might happen simultaneously is 1 in ca. 
32 BILLIONS. These figures are a strong indicator of fixing and merit detailed investigation.  

 

[jg153040]

Are you saying that he is an all time great now? I guess if you consider Boris Becker an all time great, then yes. So Tier 1 + Tier 2 + Tier 3 = All Time Greats?

They only look great because there wasn't a guy like Sampras dominating them.

This is a weak era and lack of dominant champion makes those 3 guys look better than they really are .

Sampras was dominating his rivals. He has 175% more majors than the 2nd guy.
Fed only has 130% more majors than the 2nd guy.

 

[jg153040]

Actually, the study I just found (http://www.playthegame.org/fileadmin/image/knowledgebank/Tennisdraws_Katarina_Pijetlovic.pdf) give quite convincing arguments. Have a look, if you want.

Here are some other details:
"CONNECTION TO ESPN RESEARCH 
Recent research conducted by ESPN’s “Outside The Lines” demonstrated that computer‐generated part of the 
draw at US Open which supposed to randomly distribute the unseeded players in the draw sheet has likely been 
rigged for the past ten years to ensure that the top 2 players face the easiest possible opponents in the first 
round. “It is still possible though…in sport just like in life anomalies can happen” said Chris Widmaier of US Tennis 
Association. But statistical analysis conducted by Dr. Andrew Swift produced as easy opponents in the first round 
in only 4 out of million simulations! "By itself, the U.S. [Open] numbers are weird," he said. "And then they're 
also weird in comparison to the other three Grand Slams. So you've got a double argument of weirdness here. 
Something weird is going on." 

"CONCLUSION 
The probability that the two incredible coincidences (i.e., hand‐draws of seeded players at the three Grand Slams, 
and the computer generated draws of unseeded players at the US Open) might happen simultaneously is 1 in ca. 
32 BILLIONS. These figures are a strong indicator of fixing and merit detailed investigation.  

So, what it happens. The probability of life starting on earth is astronomical too.