Djokovic just had his Sampras USO 2002 moment

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Djokovic is back and will be winning slams for a few more years..how many he ends up with will be interesting to follow..same with Fed and Nadal
 
I still can't believe Pete destroyed Agassi in that USO 2002 final. Really blemishes Agassi and shows who the master of that rivalry was. Agassi was in a career resurgence and playing well, while Pete decides to play one more game slam and routines Agassi like it was nothing.

Oldpras routined resurgent Agassi in 2002. Peakerer struggled with an older Agassi at USO on same courts. Think about that!
 
beltsman said:
I still can't believe Pete destroyed Agassi in that USO 2002 final.
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Did you watch the match? Agassi was feeding his fh all day long, even bounced returns in the net. I thought he was giving pete a hitting lesson
 
beltsman said:
I still can't believe Pete destroyed Agassi in that USO 2002 final. Really blemishes Agassi and shows who the master of that rivalry was. Agassi was in a career resurgence and playing well, while Pete decides to play one more game slam and routines Agassi like it was nothing.

Oldpras routined resurgent Agassi in 2002. Peakerer struggled with an older Agassi at USO on same courts. Think about that!
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Agassi was always a mental midget against PETE at the USO, granted Andre played himself stupid in the 95 HC summer season and had a harder draw in 2002.
 
Hitman said:
Watching this final unfold, I couldn't help but see so many similarities bombarding the forefront of my thoughts, whilst Djokovic roared his way to a triumphant Wimbledon win. The parallels with Pete's USO win seem so obvious and distinguishable to me, when I trace it back to start of this long arduous journey that Earth's Mightiest had to go on.

Pete won Wimbledon 2000, breaking the tie with Emerson and becoming the sole holder of grand slam record, however, after chasing his career defining moment, everything started to spiral out of control. Pete didn't win a title for over 2 years heading into USO 2002, many saying he was past it, that he was a step slower...yet that late summer in NYC, Pete turned back the clock, went through the draw and got better and better, ultimately beating his greatest rival on the way to claiming the USO and silencing the critics....

Fast forward to 2016 and Djokovic completed a career defining goal of finally completing the career slam by winning that prestigious but elusive trophy in Paris. And just like Pete before him, after having got such a monumental milestone, everything spiraled downwards. Djokovic entered Wimbledon 2018 not having won a slam in over two years also, and like Pete, was the holder of zero titles on the tour. Many said he too was past it, a step slower. Djokovic went through a very tough draw from third round on, and had an almighty clash with his greatest rival Nadal, defeating him on his way to claiming the W title and silencing the critics...

They doubted an ATG back then, they doubted an ATG now...when will the naysayers finally learn that you never count out an ATG. Ever.
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Except Becker, Edberg, Mac, Wilander were ATG who lost it and were never the same again. Not every ATG silences his doubters.
 
mike danny said:
Except Becker, Edberg, Mac, Wilander were ATG who lost it and were never the same again. Not every ATG silences his doubters.
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Yep, even a Tier-1 ATG, Bjorn Borg, had lost it and never won anything big after his 25th birthday.
 
Duno. Sampras looked honestly Finnish by the time he won USO 2002. He knew he was done and it was the perfect moment to retire.

Djokovic by comparison looks reborn, like he might win another few.
 
mike danny said:
Except Becker, Edberg, Mac, Wilander were ATG who lost it and were never the same again. Not every ATG silences his doubters.
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You still don't count them out though. Becker doesn't fit in this category because he made a late career resurgence. You also should be less inclined to count out an ATG who has double the amount of Slams of those guys and held all 4 at one time.
 
Hitman said:
A fourth Wimbledon title, surpassing McEnroe and Becker, it just sounds sweet.

Novak Djokovic, the four time Wimbledon champion. :)

Wimbledon has always had a special place in Novak's career, it has always been there for him in his darkest moments, giving to birth to an incredible run of form.
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Wimb again may be his catalyst like 4 years ago. In 2014 it was Fed who gave birth to Ultron, this time it may be Nadal :D
 
Hitman said:
Watching this final unfold, I couldn't help but see so many similarities bombarding the forefront of my thoughts, whilst Djokovic roared his way to a triumphant Wimbledon win. The parallels with Pete's USO win seem so obvious and distinguishable to me, when I trace it back to start of this long arduous journey that Earth's Mightiest had to go on.

Pete won Wimbledon 2000, breaking the tie with Emerson and becoming the sole holder of grand slam record, however, after chasing his career defining moment, everything started to spiral out of control. Pete didn't win a title for over 2 years heading into USO 2002, many saying he was past it, that he was a step slower...yet that late summer in NYC, Pete turned back the clock, went through the draw and got better and better, ultimately beating his greatest rival on the way to claiming the USO and silencing the critics....

Fast forward to 2016 and Djokovic completed a career defining goal of finally completing the career slam by winning that prestigious but elusive trophy in Paris. And just like Pete before him, after having got such a monumental milestone, everything spiraled downwards. Djokovic entered Wimbledon 2018 not having won a slam in over two years also, and like Pete, was the holder of zero titles on the tour. Many said he too was past it, a step slower. Djokovic went through a very tough draw from third round on, and had an almighty clash with his greatest rival Nadal, defeating him on his way to claiming the W title and silencing the critics...

They doubted an ATG back then, they doubted an ATG now...when will the naysayers finally learn that you never count out an ATG. Ever.
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But there is a big difference. For Pete it was one last magic moment. Up to then it was obvious that his return skills were fading. Nothing happened to his serve.

It's the serve that went straight to hell for Novak, and I keep repeating this because I made a thread about the new serve in which I said the new motion is great and would work. No one agree with me. Not one person.

But he integrated the the new motion perfectly. It just took a few months for him to get used to it. Only a complete fool thinks that champions like the Big Three are incapable of improving.

Fed at a much older age reinvented his backhand. It took him a couple years to grow into the new racket.

Nadal retooled his serve over the last couple years.

I don't know how many more majors Novak can win, but I think it's a bad bet to assume there are not more coming. This guy is not done.
 
NoleFam said:
You still don't count them out though. Becker doesn't fit in this category because he made a late career resurgence. You also should be less inclined to count out an ATG who has double the amount of Slams of those guys and held all 4 at one time.
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I don't disagree. But you said to not count out an ATG. That pretty much means any ATG, but those I mentioned all lost the plot relatively early.
 
mike danny said:
I don't disagree. But you said to not count out an ATG. That pretty much means any ATG, but those I mentioned all lost the plot relatively early.
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Yea 3 of them didn't make a comeback but I still wouldn't have counted them out like I never counted out Federer, Nadal or Djokovic. I think if they had put their mind to it, had the motivation and hunger, and had the fitness, they could have come back as well.
 
NoleFam said:
You still don't count them out though. Becker doesn't fit in this category because he made a late career resurgence. You also should be less inclined to count out an ATG who has double the amount of Slams of those guys and held all 4 at one time.
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Exactly, you don't count them out.

In the words of Rocky Balboa...It ain't over, 'til its over.
 
NoleFam said:
Exactly. These 3 are determined to play at a high level in their 30s which is pretty rare in tennis but yes with advancements in sports medicine and a non-existent new generation, they are looking to continue to dominate.
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While watching the Nadal-Djokovic SF, I realized how much heart both guys showed during the match. None of the next gen guys will ever show that much heart. They would have given up halfway through the match.

Zverev will never play like these 2 in a million years.
 
NoleFam said:
I don't think we have to worry about that this year. This USO should be lit.
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Hopefully.

I would be ok with Novak winning the USO as well (if it doesn't come at Fed's expense, then even better). Think of all the reactions if Novak becomes the best player of this year all of a sudden with 2 slams after a Fedal-centric first half. :D
 
mike danny said:
While watching the Nadal-Djokovic SF, I realized how much heart both guys showed during the match. None of the next gen guys will ever show that much heart. They would have given up halfway through the match.

Zverev will never play like these 2 in a million years.
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Yea Del Potro is one of the few players out there who can go toe to toe with the Big 3, and who believes he can beat them. The next generation doesn't seem to have that kind of belief to be honest. Zverev seems to lack in stamina to me. He can do well in Masters tournaments and BO3 but when he gets to Slams, he runs out of gas too easily. He has to improve his fitness before he even thinks about challenging the Big 3.
 
mike danny said:
While watching the Nadal-Djokovic SF, I realized how much heart both guys showed during the match. None of the next gen guys will ever show that much heart. They would have given up halfway through the match.

Zverev will never play like these 2 in a million years.
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Talent is also not there Zverev hyped a lot.Even Berdeych and Sod more talented than him.
 
mike danny said:
Hopefully.

I would be ok with Novak winning the USO as well (if it doesn't come at Fed's expense, then even better). Think of all the reactions if Novak becomes the best player of this year all of a sudden with 2 slams after a Fedal-centric first half. :D
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I'm ok with anyone winning it but I just want to some great competition and some great matches like we had this Wimbledon. I actually think this title could be won by any member of the Big 3, and I think Del Potro and Nishikori could be dangerous as well. I don't think Murray will be quite ready by then.
 
NoleFam said:
Yea Del Potro is one of the few players out there who can go toe to toe with the Big 3, and who believes he can beat them. The next generation doesn't seem to have that kind of belief to be honest. Zverev seems to lack in stamina to me. He can do well in Masters tournaments and BO3 but when he gets to Slams, he runs out of gas too easily. He has to improve his fitness before he even thinks about challenging the Big 3.
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I don't think stamina is as big of an issue for Zverev as it used to be. He did win three straight 5 setters at RG and won another 5 setter at Wimb. His biggest problem is his inability to put away the easy players. He plays 5 sets with every Tom, Dick and Harry in slams. He'll never win a slam if he keeps this up.

Fedalovic, as good as their stamina is, wouldn't have come close to 12+ slams each if they had gone 5 sets in slams with every mug on a consistent basis.
 
mike danny said:
I don't think stamina is as big of an issue for Zverev as it used to be. He did win three straight 5 setters at RG and won another 5 setter at Wimb. His biggest problem is his inability to put away the easy players. He plays 5 sets with every Tom, Dick and Harry in slams. He'll never win a slam if he keeps this up.

Fedalovic, as good as their stamina is, wouldn't have come close to 12+ slams each if they had gone 5 sets in slams with every mug on a consistent basis.
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True. He can't put those opponents away easily as he should but he also runs out of gas. Now at RG, he did play three 5 setters so I understood when he ran out of gas but at Wimbledon this year? Getting bageled in the 5th in the 3rd round? That's unacceptable. There seems to be a problem with stamina and we have to realize, the Big 3 have won Slams after playing three 5 setters before.
 
NoleFam said:
True. He can't put those opponents away easily as he should but he also runs out of gas. Now at RG, he did play three 5 setters so I understood when he ran out of gas but at Wimbledon this year? Getting bageled in the 5th in the 3rd round? That's unacceptable. There seems to be a problem with stamina and we have to realize, the Big 3 have won Slams after playing three 5 setters before.
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And @Meles has him as some sort of genetic freak Zedzilla.
 
NoleFam said:
True. He can't put those opponents away easily as he should but he also runs out of gas. Now at RG, he did play three 5 setters so I understood when he ran out of gas but at Wimbledon this year? Getting bageled in the 5th in the 3rd round? That's unacceptable. There seems to be a problem with stamina and we have to realize, the Big 3 have won Slams after playing three 5 setters before.
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Djokovic and Nadal have never won slam after winning three 5 setters.
 
Gary Duane said:
But there is a big difference. For Pete it was one last magic moment. Up to then it was obvious that his return skills were fading. Nothing happened to his serve.

It's the serve that went straight to hell for Novak, and I keep repeating this because I made a thread about the new serve in which I said the new motion is great and would work. No one agree with me. Not one person.

But he integrated the the new motion perfectly. It just took a few months for him to get used to it. Only a complete fool thinks that champions like the Big Three are incapable of improving.

Fed at a much older age reinvented his backhand. It took him a couple years to grow into the new racket.

Nadal retooled his serve over the last couple years.

I don't know how many more majors Novak can win, but I think it's a bad bet to assume there are not more coming. This guy is not done.
Click to expand...
Nadal's serve is still horrible even if slightly improved. Nadal has improved much more the volley, the backhand and the drop shots.
 
l recall most posters saying that once Nole returns, either he will or he won't dominate the way Federer and Nadal have dominated since returning. I don't recall many posters saying he won't win another slam. But of course, I pay more attention to comments made about Federer than Djokovic.
 
mike danny said:
Djokovic and Nadal have never won slam after winning three 5 setters.
Click to expand...

Yea you're right, however, at 2007 Wimbledon Nadal played two 5 setters before the final and then played another 5 setter in the final, going toe to toe with Federer. Djokovic, in 2014 Wimbledon, played one 5 setter and two 4 setters with two 7-6 sets each, and then played another 5 setter in the final. So technically, Nadal has never won a Slam after playing three five setters but he did make a run to the final. Djokovic didn't technically win 3 five setters, but he did win 2 five setters and 2 tight 4 setters to win one. Do we really think Zverev would be able to have the stamina to do that? To me it seems unlikely until he improves his fitness.
 
NoleFam said:
Yea you're right, however, at 2007 Wimbledon Nadal played two 5 setters before the final and then played another 5 setter in the final, going toe to toe with Federer. Djokovic, in 2014 Wimbledon, played one 5 setter and two 4 setters with two 7-6 sets each, and then played another 5 setter in the final. So technically, Nadal has never won a Slam after playing three five setters but he did make a run to the final. Djokovic didn't technically win 3 five setters, but he did win 2 five setters and 2 tight 4 setters to win one. Do we really think Zverev would be able to have the stamina to do that? To me it seems unlikely until he improves his fitness.
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Oh Zverev as of now has no chance of doing that.

Nadal also played three 5 setters at 2017 AO.
 
NoleFam said:
Yea you're right, however, at 2007 Wimbledon Nadal played two 5 setters before the final and then played another 5 setter in the final, going toe to toe with Federer. Djokovic, in 2014 Wimbledon, played one 5 setter and two 4 setters with two 7-6 sets each, and then played another 5 setter in the final. So technically, Nadal has never won a Slam after playing three five setters but he did make a run to the final. Djokovic didn't technically win 3 five setters, but he did win 2 five setters and 2 tight 4 setters to win one. Do we really think Zverev would be able to have the stamina to do that? To me it seems unlikely until he improves his fitness.
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The 5 setters though don't always tell the whole story. There are 4 setters that are longer than 5 setters.

Fed's 5 setters at 2017 AO were more like 4 setters in terms of time spent on court.
 
mike danny said:
The 5 setters though don't always tell the whole story. There are 4 setters that are longer than 5 setters.

Fed's 5 setters at 2017 AO were more like 4 setters in terms of time spent on court.
Click to expand...

True but we are analyzing why Zverev is being bageled in 5th sets. He also got bageled in the 5th set against Chung at AO this year. That's twice in one year and there seems to be a common denominator. It seems in longer matches, he runs out of gas.
 
fmadej said:
I kept saying that - Novak is far from done. He just proved that.
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All I have to say is that Nole will be the next GOAT in 5 years or so, you can guaranteed that. He is already overall most complete player of all times, no one and I mean NO ONE has thouse returning skills combain with that killer instinct and able to be also attacking player. Yes I admit, I have always hated Fed and his "hype" with the thousand million fan boys cheering for him around the world. To me he has always been just a "one trick pony" as an serve&volley player in faster surfaces in his old days, and nowadays he dont even play on clay, cause he knows he would not be top-20 on that surface and he hates losing to mugs:eek:

Anwyays about Roger, for me the thing what makes him the "GOAT" is false cause the time he won so many Slams as his "prime time" it was the REAL weak era.. I mean guys like Hewitt, Roddick, Ljubicic.. Cmooooon. Thouse guys with their skills would not be even top-30 players these days. Than when Nole and Rafa, two of the best players all time came to picture.. Well we can see what happened for example h2h stats against Roger. Roger could not beat thouse guys as he was in his "prime age" and thouse guys were just youngsters. Also the fact that Rafa and Nole to me are most toughest players out there mentally ( Rafa actually for me prob the toughest guy in sports world including every sport in mental side), it was clear that "soft head" like Roger could not be better than them. Nuff said, over and out :)

Ps. Sorry for typos, Im bit drunk cause I won 200e cash today with Nole Wimbledon tournament winner bet with 8 odds.. :p
 
Hitman said:
Watching this final unfold, I couldn't help but see so many similarities bombarding the forefront of my thoughts, whilst Djokovic roared his way to a triumphant Wimbledon win. The parallels with Pete's USO win seem so obvious and distinguishable to me, when I trace it back to start of this long arduous journey that Earth's Mightiest had to go on.

Pete won Wimbledon 2000, breaking the tie with Emerson and becoming the sole holder of grand slam record, however, after chasing his career defining moment, everything started to spiral out of control. Pete didn't win a title for over 2 years heading into USO 2002, many saying he was past it, that he was a step slower...yet that late summer in NYC, Pete turned back the clock, went through the draw and got better and better, ultimately beating his greatest rival on the way to claiming the USO and silencing the critics....

Fast forward to 2016 and Djokovic completed a career defining goal of finally completing the career slam by winning that prestigious but elusive trophy in Paris. And just like Pete before him, after having got such a monumental milestone, everything spiraled downwards. Djokovic entered Wimbledon 2018 not having won a slam in over two years also, and like Pete, was the holder of zero titles on the tour. Many said he too was past it, a step slower. Djokovic went through a very tough draw from third round on, and had an almighty clash with his greatest rival Nadal, defeating him on his way to claiming the W title and silencing the critics...

They doubted an ATG back then, they doubted an ATG now...when will the naysayers finally learn that you never count out an ATG. Ever.
Click to expand...
A big difference between Nole Wimbledon 2018 and Sampras USO 2002, is I don't think that Wimbledon 2018 is Nole's swan song.
 
Sudacafan said:
A big difference between Nole Wimbledon 2018 and Sampras USO 2002, is I don't think that Wimbledon 2018 is Nole's swan song.
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Djokovic is in the middle of having an Andre Agassi 1999-type season. I think he may even end the year at No. 1.

That was my prediction at the end of 2017 anyway. He's proving me right so far.
 
Sabratha said:
Djokovic is in the middle of having an Andre Agassi 1999-type season. I think he may even end the year at No. 1.

That was my prediction at the end of 2017 anyway. He's proving me right so far.
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I have to admit that I gave up believing in a Nole comeback like this. He proved me wrong.
 
Sabratha said:
Djokovic is in the middle of having an Andre Agassi 1999-type season. I think he may even end the year at No. 1.

That was my prediction at the end of 2017 anyway. He's proving me right so far.
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He may end being the number 1 of 2018 second half, if rankings had that record.
He is too far behind from Rafa to end as YE#1 though.
 
Sudacafan said:
I have to admit that I gave up believing in a Nole comeback as this. He proved me wrong.
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Well to be fair he dropped as low as 21st in the world and was having a bad season up until now. I didn't disbelieve really, I knew he'd eventually get his act together.

He's too young and too good a player to be completely finished at his age. He doesn't have a blood disorder either so no Sampras excuse.
 
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