Djokovic leads Fedal on their best surfaces since 2011
- Thread starter Lew II
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Deleted member 743561
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Would you go so far as to call Djokovic the...
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
Incorrect. He leads Federer, not Nadal. This means that he doesn't lead Fedal.
You can't lump Federer in with Nadal in order to make your case - it'd be like Federer beating me 100 times than us all saying Federer leads the H2H against literally every player on the ATP tour + TripleATeam. I mean, yes, the H2H is in his favor if we do that, but that's ingenuous.
You can't lump Federer in with Nadal in order to make your case - it'd be like Federer beating me 100 times than us all saying Federer leads the H2H against literally every player on the ATP tour + TripleATeam. I mean, yes, the H2H is in his favor if we do that, but that's ingenuous.
xFedal
Legend
Not yet...some could argue Nole slam and h2h over Fedal warrants it.... but he still far behind in the slam count for me to consider it right now.Would you go so far as to call Djokovic the...
OldschoolKIaus
Hall of Fame
I'm very disappointed as I was expecting huge data samples and scientific driven data analysis!
#!/usr/bin/python3
import lewII
#!/usr/bin/python3
import lewII
NatF
Bionic Poster
Yup, "Fedal not capable of solving Djokovic on their best surfaces" when:
a) Nadal leads Djokovic on clay
b) Nadal leads 3-1 at the majors on clay
Classic Lew
And 5 Others
Rookie
Love ya lew boo!
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
The magic words here are "since 2011". You don't know what would have happened if Djokovic had to face a superior Fedal prior to 2011. All we know is how well Djokovic does against their post 2011 versions.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Fedal are still top-2 in the world and declaring to be playing their best tennis ever. Don't act like they were much better before 2011.
It's Djokovic the one who changed the most since 2011.
Towny
Hall of Fame
So to sum up:
Nadal leads Djokovic 3-1 at RG since the arbitrary 2011 start year, and 8-7 on clay overall.
Djokovic couldn't beat Federer on grass until 2014, when Federer was one month shy of 33. Even then it was 5 sets. And in their recent match, against late 30s Federer, he was 2 match points down on Fred's serve.
Nole = GOAT. Federer = Fraud
Nadal leads Djokovic 3-1 at RG since the arbitrary 2011 start year, and 8-7 on clay overall.
Djokovic couldn't beat Federer on grass until 2014, when Federer was one month shy of 33. Even then it was 5 sets. And in their recent match, against late 30s Federer, he was 2 match points down on Fred's serve.
Nole = GOAT. Federer = Fraud
The Fedfather
Legend
Absolutely incredible how Nadal wasn't able to solve Djokovic on clay and still won most times, including the last 3 meetings. What will happen once Rafa figures Djokovic out? 
And 5 Others
Rookie
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm not acting like they were better prior to 2011. I know they were better prior to 2011. Peak Nadal did come back for an appearance in 2013, but that's one year compared to the nine we have from 2011 to the present day. Only Federer's 2012 and 2017 seasons can be mentioned up there with his prime years, but they're still worse than 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, and maybe 2009.
The fact that they say they're playing better now means diddly squat. In a Reddit AMA back in 2013 (his worst season since his early career) Federer was asked how he would fare against his 2007 version of himself. Here was his reply:
"Well first, I hope I'm a better player today than I was back then. I feel like I'm a more complete player today. Although my game hasn't changed much, my experience would allow me fewer mistakes and the ability to deal with challenges a little bit easier. "
That was in 2013, the year he lost to the likes of Daniel Brands and Sergiy Stakhovsky. Either Federer switched on full PR mode or those players happened to be better than him. Take your pick.
The same can be said for his other comments.
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm starting to think that Novak already might be the best of this era : over Fed and Nadal.
What he has achieved is incredible. To be able to dominate 2 legends (Fedal) is unheard of. Unbelievable.
What he has achieved is incredible. To be able to dominate 2 legends (Fedal) is unheard of. Unbelievable.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Lew is such a troll. Nadal wasn't able to solve Djokovic on clay? Right, this is why Djokovic needed until Nadal dropped to the lowest point of his career in order to beat him in RG. Once Nadal became strong again Djokovic started avoiding him in RG.
icedevil0289
G.O.A.T.
is it not possible to just lump all of these into some sticky thread just titled lew stats or lew's interpretation of stats or some ****.
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
I understand your clay argument where Nadal is the better player. But Djokovic has dominated Nadal COMPLETELY off-clay in the past several years.
Also he has been closer to Nadal on clay (even though inferior) than Nadal has been to Novak on hards and grass.
The Fedfather
Legend
Statistical delewsion
Federer won 16/20 slams before 2011 therefore that is his best version. Anything else is pure conjecture from you.
He hasn’t been playing his best tennis for 16 years straight.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
Fed was much better before 2011. Every player peaks in his own way. Djokovic is having his weakest year re both games and points on all surface this year since 2010 with the exception of 2017, for obvious reasons, and 2018, which was a bizarre year.
You have made a lot of enemies in this forum of people who are neutral about Djokovic, even mildly supportive, but who just hate your trolling.
For your information: Novak has never had a really good year when winning less than 55% of points, and all he has to do this year is slip a bit to be under that. So you better hope he has a really strong end of 2019. Fans never see a decline until it slams them in the face. He got lucky as hell winning Wimbledon this year.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
What’s with all the fire?Would you go so far as to call Djokovic the...
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Lucky when you meet the Wimbledon GOAT in the final?
Lucky when you save 2 mp on Fed's serve three times at Slams?
I think Djokovic will start to have it lucky when Federer and Nadal will get out of the picture.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Like I said, Fedal had been slugging it out in epic DBZ-like fights since 2005, while Novak was on his couch eating cheetos.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
It's not like Nadal suddenly got worse after 2011. It was Djokovic who entered another level of tennis perfection.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
He didn't suddenly get worse after 2011. He was still pretty darn good from 2011-2013 (with 2013 being his best season overall), but I was referring to the entire (completely arbitrary) period of 2011-present which includes some stinkers like 2014, 2015, 2016, and maybe 2019 to bring down the era overall.
I think most people would agree that Nadal had a superior period from 2007-2010. Even 2005-2006 was pretty good as well (certainly no worse than some of years I mentioned before.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
The only sure winner is Father Time, and he'll kick your boy's ass just as he does everyone else's. You must be too young to understand that. That's the only thing that explains your arrogance.
itrium84
Hall of Fame
For Nadal, 2011 was his strongest and best season, not 2013.
In 2011, only BOAT Djokovic in god mode prevented him from absolute domination with historic 50+ consecutive matches won and a freakin NCYGS (with 2012 AO) + historic 5 consecutive GS, overcoming even Rod Laver.
His 2013 pales in comparison with 2011 minus BOAT Djokovic.
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Lew II
G.O.A.T.
LOL I never wrote Djokovic will break all records. I'm just enjoying the ride.
What do you want from me?
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
+1Tennis never began in 2011, therefore this thread is pointless
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
It really wasn't like he was so good only Djokovic could stop him. Guys like Davydenko, Ferrer, Tsonga, Dodig, Fish, and Florian Mayer were defeating him on several occasions, even on the big stages. Even if we take away the Djokovic losses, Nadal is still 68-9, which is worse than 2013. And if we leave the Djokovic losses in, it does Nadal's 2011 season no good when it shows he lost six times to just one player, even on his best surface. He couldn't even manage a win at Rome.
If you want to chalk it up event by event, here's how Nadal's form is laid out:
AO: No contest. It's impossible to compare because Nadal was injured for the 2013 edition.
RG: 2013 by some margin. Even if we discount the Isner match in 2011, he still had awful matches against Andujar, Ljubicic, and Soderling.
Wimby: 2011 by a country mile
USO: 2013 but it's somewhat close
WTF: 2013 by some margin
I'm sorry, but to claim that Nadal would have been this mythical god without Djokovic in the way is pure fanboyism and it can be countered somewhat easily.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
It would be nice if you'd stop being a member who is only here to hype one player. You're not the only one, but you hide behind stats in a way that makes it appear as if you are all about the facts, but almost everyone here knows you cherry-pick data to further your agenda.
I find it highly annoying because I do a lot of work with facts/data, and I'm not trying to prove any player is better than everyone else.
I figure the moment things change and Novak stops winning you'll be gone. You can tell me I'm wrong if that doesn't happen.
True Fanerer
G.O.A.T.
What happened to hyping Nadal?
Oh yeah, he lost this time and Djokovic won instead, lol.
Oh yeah, he lost this time and Djokovic won instead, lol.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
A lot of tennis happened before and after 2011 It's just a shame that Fedal didn't get the chance to pile on the wins when Joker was out of form between the 2016 FO and 2018 SW19. But he was too busy falling out of the top 10 to reach them in the latter stages of events.
It's just a shame that Fedal didn't get the chance to pile on the wins when Joker was out of form between the 2016 FO and 2018 SW19. But he was too busy falling out of the top 10 to reach them in the latter stages of events.
True Fanerer
G.O.A.T.
I consider Djokovic very lucky that he didn't meet Federer or Nadal during that time. Especially in 2017.A lot of tennis happened before and after 2011
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Federer unable to solve being 37. Therefore MUG.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
The second half of 2013 was way better for Nadal. In 2011, he lost steam after Wimbledon and his only strong result was making the USO final. Spring HC and grass seasons were obviously better for Nadal in 2011, but pitting 2 slams + 2 masters vs 1 slam + YEC + 4 masters favours the latter as the more significant chunk of the tennis year. That leaves the clay season, offering no substantial difference between 2011 and 2013 so 2013 still wins overall.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
True Fanerer
G.O.A.T.
The h2h with Fed would be closerI couldn't agree more.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
He probably said the same to his teachers at school upon their request to stop doing meaningless things and to produce something of note: he told them too that he is "just enjoying the ride" which is why he is flipping burgers somewhere and posting crooked stats on the Internet.
He reminds me very much of the 5555 character with his incessant "logic" BS, before he flamed out like a cheap candle. Coincidentally the 5555 character was a Djokovic fan too.
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BorgTheGOAT
Legend
A post that is supposed to praise Djokovic for dominating Fedal starts with listing a loosing H2H. This is comedy gold.Vs Nadal on clay 7-8
Vs Federer on grass 3-1
Total: 10-9
Nine years and Fedal were still not capable of solving Novak on their best surfaces
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
What I meant is clear.
It's the combined h2h against Fed on grass and Ned on clay.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
ROFL. I guess 2015 was Federer's best season then.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
Yes I know but this is nowhere near as impressive as the thread title reads.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Nothing close here. Nadal played a great tournament in USO 2013 and was broken only 4 times during the whole tournament. In USO 2011 he was broken 11 times in the final alone. His serve was terrible even by WTA standards, leave alone all the other parts of his game which were much better in 2013. Also, let's not forget he won Montreal and Cincinnati in 2013. In 2011 he lost early in both.
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