Djokovic low Final/title conversion in GS?

The_Mental_Giant

The_Mental_Giant

Hall of Fame
Whats the reason for this?

After the epic AO 2012 final that he won over rafa he has played 7 GS finals but only won 2 of them (AO 2013 and WImbledon 2014)

He has lost 3 finals to nadal and 2 to murray.

Whats the reson for his poor conversion?

he went from 5-2 to 7-7- in slam finals.

and pre wimbledon this year it was 6-7..

I think he could go all the way to 9-12 when Its all said and done...
 
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Starting 2011, there are 16 majors so far.

Novak has won 6 and reached finals of 6 others. That is the way to look at it , rather than portray him as a choker.

Would it be better if he had 10 wins and 2 losses ? Sure. At the same time 6 wins and 6 finals is way way better than 6 wins and 3 DNP and 3 1R losses to 100+ ranked players.
 
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tennisaddict said:
Starting 2011, there are 16 majors so far.

Novak has won 6 and reached finals of 6 others. That is the way to look at it , rather than portray him as a choker.

Would it be better if he had 10 wins and 2 losses ? Sure. At the same time 6 wins and 6 finals is way way better than 6 finals and 3 DNP and 3 1R losses to 100+ ranked players.
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Im talking after 2012 AO , because most people concede that novak absolute peak was AO 2011 to AO 2012.. and after being on his prime he only went 2-5 in GS finals...
 
NatF said:
Exactly my point. He's not in the same ballpark as guys like Nadal and Federer.
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To be fair, Novak does not abuse tour by taking breaks from the tour like Rafa and he is far more consistent in every major on every surface.

Novak's is a far more balanced resume . He has won 4 WTF's which the OP intentionally ignores.

And he is not making up his major counts by winning 1 major alone like what Rafa does.
 
The_Mental_Giant said:
Because we are taking his performance after his streaks in 2011 early 2012...

Im not judging djokovic career.. but how he managed to win, play finals right after his absolute peak ended..although he was still being number 1.
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Can you answer why Rafa loses to 100+ ranked players immediately after winning multiple masters and FO ?
 
Djokovic has been undefeated for 27 months (!) in the MM tournaments. His losses in slam finals are all between the ears, his mental toughness is bad in comparison to many other ATGs.
 
That is because Novak plays full season , and doesnt abuse rules.. He and federer plays fair and play as per rules..
Rafa last played full season in 2011 ..
Rest for 3-6 months every year, win RG , again rest for 3-6 months again win RG...again rest !
He has onli one goal to level 17 or cross it, come what may..
Better to play full season for fans and sport rather than playin selfish .!
 
Conversion rate in Finals is not as bad as people make out.
If you look historically at Connors and Agassi, they have 8 Slams out of 15 Finals - only marginally better. Novak can equal that if he wins the AO next year.
Lendl though worse at 8 out of 19 Slam Finals.
But at the end of the day they are all only remembered as 8 Major champions. (amongst other things).
Novak is currently a 7 Major champion.
The main losses that have hindered him have been in NY, and unfortunately in all those cases he was outplayed. Nothing you can do about it.
He has also just happened to run into the best clay court player ever, and in any other era he would be revered as a multiple RG winner, like Kuerten, Lendl, Wilander and co.
He has done well to rise above the Fedal era, and carve out his own legacy.
 
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maratha_warrior said:
That is because Novak plays full season , and doesnt abuse rules.. He and federer plays fair and play as per rules..
Rafa last played full season in 2011 ..
Rest for 3-6 months every year, win RG , again rest for 3-6 months again win RG...again rest !
He has onli one goal to level 17 or cross it, come what may..
Better to play full season for fans and sport rather than playin selfish .!
Click to expand...

If Nadal only plays for RG, then what has that got to do with Nole NOT winning the other three slams?
 
maratha_warrior said:
That is because Novak plays full season , and doesnt abuse rules.. He and federer plays fair and play as per rules..
Rafa last played full season in 2011 ..
Rest for 3-6 months every year, win RG , again rest for 3-6 months again win RG...again rest !
He has onli one goal to level 17 or cross it, come what may..
Better to play full season for fans and sport rather than playin selfish .!
Click to expand...

I seem to remember that Nadal dominated 2013.
 
NatF said:
Exactly my point. He's not in the same ballpark as guys like Nadal and Federer.
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His biggest problem is that he's not as good a big match player as those two guys. If he played every Slam final like he does in a Masters 1000 he'd be on double digit majors already.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
His biggest problem is that he's not as good a big match player as those two guys. If he played every Slam final like he does in a Masters 1000 he'd be on double digit majors already.
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Definitely. His technical abilities are way up there on ATG list. But so is Nalbandian, and many others. Winning in sports is 90% mental. Nole is a perfect proof of it. :|
 
Djokovic2011 said:
His biggest problem is that he's not as good a big match player as those two guys. If he played every Slam final like he does in a Masters 1000 he'd be on double digit majors already.
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You could say the same about a lot of tier 2 players, many of them didn't bring their best to enough slam finals to be part of the true elite.
 
NatF said:
You could say the same about a lot of tier 2 players, many of them didn't bring their best to enough slam finals to be part of the true elite.
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Federer 17-8, Nadal 14-6, Sampras 14-4. And compare this to Connors 8-7, Lendl 8-11, Djokovic 7-7. Being great is all about being a mental giant, playing your best at the key moments. BTW, Borg 11-5, McEnroe 7-4, Wilander 7-4 are somewhere in-between. Laver 20-12 and Rosewall 23-12 are definitely greater mental giants than Connors/Lendl/Djokovic.
 
torpantennis said:
What is the surprise element? That Nole STILL has only won one slam a year since 2011, with Nadal ONLY winning one slam outside of RG!
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Rafa has 3 multi slam years - 2008 , 2010 and 2013. Novak has one - 2011.

Rafa's 2010 was in a vacuum year. No such comfort for Novak.

Novak got 4 WTF's and Rafa has 0. That definitely compensates some.

Novak has 2-3 more years ahead of him. No one can say that for Rafa.
 
tennisaddict said:
Off clay, Rafa has won 1 major since 2011. What is the surprise element ?
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Off grass, Federer has 2 slams, 3 runner-ups since 2009 (this is 6 years after winning his first slam) in 24 slam appearances. Win conversion = (2/24) 8%, Finals conversion = (5/24) 21%

Off clay, Nadal has 1 slam, 4 runner-ups since 2011 (this is 6 years after winning his first slam) in 13 slam appearances. Win conversion = (1/13) 8%, Finals conversion = (5/13) 38%

I'd say Nadal's doing just fine. He just needs to stop getting injured.
 
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drm025 said:
Off grass, Federer has 2 slams, 3 runner-ups since 2009 (this is 6 years after winning his first slam) in 24 slam appearances. Win conversion = 8%, Finals conversion = 21%

Off clay, Nadal has 1 slam, 4 runner-ups since 2011 (this is 6 years after winning his first slam) in 13 slam appearances. Win conversion = 8%, Finals conversion = 38%

I'd say Nadal's doing just fine. He just needs to stop getting injured.
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You know he's a troll right? :)
 
drm025 said:
Off grass, Federer has 2 slams, 3 runner-ups since 2009 (this is 6 years after winning his first slam) in 24 slam appearances. Win conversion = 8%, Finals conversion = 21%

Off clay, Nadal has 1 slam, 4 runner-ups since 2011 (this is 6 years after winning his first slam) in 13 slam appearances. Win conversion = 8%, Finals conversion = 38%

I'd say Nadal's doing just fine. He just needs to stop getting injured.
Click to expand...

Federer achieved all what he has to till AO 2010.

Everything after that is a bonus. He does not have to check any more boxes.

It is Rafa doing the catch up and having a long way to go.
 
tennisaddict said:
Starting 2011, there are 16 majors so far.

Novak has won 6 and reached finals of 6 others. That is the way to look at it , rather than portray him as a choker.

Would it be better if he had 10 wins and 2 losses ? Sure. At the same time 6 wins and 6 finals is way way better than 6 wins and 3 DNP and 3 1R losses to 100+ ranked players.
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No, it really isn't. Since 2011 (meaning AFTER 2011) Djokovic has 3 slam wins and 5 finals and Nadal has 4 slam wins and 2 finals. After Nadal skipped 3 slams in that period he still has a better slam winning record than Djokovic after 2011. Making finals are nice but I'll take more slam wins any day.
 
cc0509 said:
No, it really isn't. Since 2011 (meaning AFTER 2011) Djokovic has 3 slam wins and 5 finals and Nadal has 4 slam wins and 2 finals. After Nadal skipped 3 slams in that period he still has a better slam winning record than Djokovic after 2011. Making finals are nice but I'll take more slam wins any day.
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Novak shouldn't be given any credit for his great consistency cc0?
 
Wait a second, why did a thread about Novak's slam final conversion turned into Rafa haters spouting their ridiculous "being 6 months out injured is an advantage, cheater"?.

:neutral:

On topic, Novak has played really tough players.
 
tennisaddict said:
Federer achieved all what he has to till AO 2010.

Everything after that is a bonus. He does not have to check any more boxes.

It is Rafa doing the catch up and having a long way to go.
Click to expand...

There are no bonuses, there are wins and losses. If he truly thought there was nothing left to be accomplished, he would retire. "Loving the game" isn't enough reason to devote you and your family's entire lives to training at the highest level day in, day out.

Rafa has to catch up because Federer has played in 64 slams, while Rafa has played in 39.
 
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