Djokovic, Murray and Federer

USO

Banned
Federer has the same amount of slams by himself as 2 members of the Big 4 combined.

Federer (20) = Djokovic (17) + Murray (3)

If this isn’t proof that Djokovic isn’t Goat material then I don’t know what is. Murray is one of our biggest and finest champions and yet even if you add his slams to Djokovic’s slams, Djokovic still can’t surpass Federer. :unsure: :oops:

And now also (edit):

Nadal (20) = Djokovic (17) + Murray (3)
 
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daphne

Hall of Fame
Federer has the same amount of slams by himself as 2 members of the Big 4 combined.

Federer (20) = Djokovic (17) + Murray (3)

If this isn’t proof that Djokovic isn’t Goat material then I don’t know what is. Murray is one of our biggest and finest champions and yet even if you add his slams to Djokovic’s slams, Djokovic still can’t surpass Federer. :unsure: :oops:
lol
 

thrust

Legend
Federer has the same amount of slams by himself as 2 members of the Big 4 combined.

Federer (20) = Djokovic (17) + Murray (3)

If this isn’t proof that Djokovic isn’t Goat material then I don’t know what is. Murray is one of our biggest and finest champions and yet even if you add his slams to Djokovic’s slams, Djokovic still can’t surpass Federer. :unsure: :oops:
LOL! That says more about Murray than Novak. Pathetic promotion of Federer, as supposed, GOAT.
 

USO

Banned
Combining Djokovic with non-ATG means nothing.

Murray is definitely an ATG, someone who actually beat Djokovic in USO and Wimbledon finals, and an eternal member of the Big 4.

664802-21716626-2560-1440.jpg
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.

Uh...

Come on!

OK.

The Industrial Revolution, to me,

is just like a story I know...

..called The Puppy Who Lost His Way.

The world was changing...

..and the puppy was getting... bigger.

So, you see, the puppy was like industry,...

..in that they were both

lost in the woods,...

..and nobody, especially the little boy -

society - knew where to find them.

Except that the puppy... was a dog.

But the industry, my friends,...

..that was a revolution.

Knibb High football rules!
 

canta_Brian

Hall of Fame
Andy Murray has two more Olympic Singles Gold medals than Djokovic and Federer combined (0+0).

If that isn't proof that he is the undisputed, unrivaled goat, then I don't know what is.
I’ll rephrase that for you.

Andy Murray has infinitely more Olympic golds than Djokovic and Federer combined.
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
Federer has the same amount of slams by himself as 2 members of the Big 4 combined.

Federer (20) = Djokovic (17) + Murray (3)

If this isn’t proof that Djokovic isn’t Goat material then I don’t know what is. Murray is one of our biggest and finest champions and yet even if you add his slams to Djokovic’s slams, Djokovic still can’t surpass Federer

If you get accepted to a college -- and this by no means seems assured -- I want you to take some courses in logic.
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
Federer has the same number of slams as Nadal and Chang combined! This proves that Chang is not GOAT material.
 

Nole_King

Hall of Fame
Federer has the same amount of slams by himself as 2 members of the Big 4 combined.

Federer (20) = Djokovic (17) + Murray (3)

If this isn’t proof that Djokovic isn’t Goat material then I don’t know what is. Murray is one of our biggest and finest champions and yet even if you add his slams to Djokovic’s slams, Djokovic still can’t surpass Federer. :unsure: :oops:

Except the fact that Djokovic has added Murray's career slam tally within a span of 12 months thrice (i m including Wim/USO 2018 with AO 2019) ....... so some may say that he may be only 12 months behind Federer :giggle:
 

lucky13

Semi-Pro
What does it say about Djokovic's GOATness to suffer two slam final losses to a non-ATG?

nole vs fed h2h:
27 (+WO) - 23 (45%)
finals: 13 (+WO) - 6 (27%)
GS: 11 - 6 (35%)
GSF: 4 - 1 (20%)

fed vs muzza h2h:
14 - 11 (44%)
finals: 5 - 3 (38%)
GS: 5 - 1 (17%)
GSF: 3 - 0

nole vs muzza h2h:
25 - 11 (31%)
finals: 11 - 8 (42%)
GS: 8 - 2 (20%)
GSF: 5 - 2 (40%)
 

JackGates

Legend
nole vs fed h2h:
27 (+WO) - 23
finals: 13 (+WO) - 6
GS: 11 - 6
GSF: 4 - 1

fed vs muzza h2h:
14 - 11
finals: 5 - 3
GS: 5 - 1
GSF: 3 - 0

nole vs muzza h2h:
25 - 11
finals: 11 - 8
GS: 8 - 2
GSF: 5 - 2
Guess Kyrgios and Roddick are better than Djokovic. Nice work Einstein. Or Wawrnika 2-1 in GS finals versus Djokovic.
Were you missing at school when they were teaching circular reasoning?
 

Druss

Hall of Fame
Big 3 slam final losses to non-ATGs (6+slam winners):

1) Federer - 1 (Delpo)
1) Nadal - 1 (Wawa)
3) Djokovic - 4 (2 x Wawa, 2 x Muzza).

If we include Borg and Sampras - all OE double digit slam winners:

1) Borg - 0
2) Federer - 1
2) Nadal - 1
4) Sampras - 2
5) Djokovic - 4.
 
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JackGates

Legend
Big 3 slam final losses to non-ATGs (6+slam winners):

1) Federer - 1 (Delpo)
1) Nadal - 1 (Wawa)
3) Djokovic - 4 (2 x Wawa, 2 x Muzza).

If we include Borg and Sampras - all OE double digit slam winners:

1) Borg - 0
2) Federer - 1
2) Nadal - 1
4) Sampras - 2
5) Djokovic - 4.
This changes things and it's quite a surprise. So Borg is mentally the toughest out there. Plus, I'm surprised Federer scores so high, why do then people call Fed mentally weak, he won when he was supposed to win, except one Delpo fluke.
 

SonnyT

Legend
Somebody has trouble with logic and reasoning!

For starters, Djokovic is not standing there at 17 forever, but Federer does look pat at 20!
 

lucky13

Semi-Pro
fed..rds show again that they do not have such a high IQ.

firstly - nole and nick have played only 2 matches, during nole's worst year when he had an injured elbow, while fed and nole have played over 50 matches against each other. and nick is far from nole's biggest rival on the tour. he is irrelevant to nole's career.

secondly - rodick and nole are 5-4 and 8 of the 9 matches were played before nole operated on his nasal deviation and discovered his gluten intolerance. therefore, he has, for example, given up a match under the hot conditions in AO. the only match after nole solved those problems has nole crushed rodick, 6-2, 6-1 in london olympics. Rodick himself has said that after this match he has realized that he can no longer keep up with the best players. and he usually answer the question about the recipes to have positive h2h versus nole: retire while you lead.

if we look at finals then that is when we can say that both rivals are at the top, then you do not get to a final if you are not in good shape, then nole has never played any final against either nick or rodick. while he is 11-6 in finals against fed!

h2h matches against muzza you (fed..rds) have developed here and not me. I have only shown three things:

1. nole has better h2h against muzza than fed.
2. Nole has better h2h vs both (fed and muzza, so it's not a circular h2h wither, your geniuses, then nole is better than both 2)
3. noles h2h vs. fed is almost better (whatever parameters you check out) than feds h2h vs. muzza even if you use noles and muzzas h2h to discredit noles success!
 

JackGates

Legend
fed..rds show again that they do not have such a high IQ.

firstly - nole and nick have played only 2 matches, during nole's worst year when he had an injured elbow, while fed and nole have played over 50 matches against each other. and nick is far from nole's biggest rival on the tour. he is irrelevant to nole's career.

secondly - rodick and nole are 5-4 and 8 of the 9 matches were played before nole operated on his nasal deviation and discovered his gluten intolerance. therefore, he has, for example, given up a match under the hot conditions in AO. the only match after nole solved those problems has nole crushed rodick, 6-2, 6-1 in london olympics. Rodick himself has said that after this match he has realized that he can no longer keep up with the best players. and he usually answer the question about the recipes to have positive h2h versus nole: retire while you lead.

if we look at finals then that is when we can say that both rivals are at the top, then you do not get to a final if you are not in good shape, then nole has never played any final against either nick or rodick. while he is 11-6 in finals against fed!

h2h matches against muzza you (fed..rds) have developed here and not me. I have only shown three things:

1. nole has better h2h against muzza than fed.
2. Nole has better h2h vs both (fed and muzza, so it's not a circular h2h wither, your geniuses, then nole is better than both 2)
3. noles h2h vs. fed is almost better (whatever parameters you check out) than feds h2h vs. muzza even if you use noles and muzzas h2h to discredit noles success!
Why does h2h matter though? I thought ATP only counts titles and rankings and not h2h.
Oh, show me Nole's h2h trophy. Also how about Fed's h2h trophy when he dominated Agassi and Safin and Roddick and Wawrinka, Hewitt and younger Djokovic. How about Fed's latest h2h trophy when old Fed dominated old Nadal?

Fed has more h2h trophies than DJokovic.
 

lucky13

Semi-Pro
Why does h2h matter though? I thought ATP only counts titles and rankings and not h2h.
Oh, show me Nole's h2h trophy. Also how about Fed's h2h trophy when he dominated Agassi and Safin and Roddick and Wawrinka, Hewitt and younger Djokovic. How about Fed's latest h2h trophy when old Fed dominated old Nadal?

Fed has more h2h trophies than DJokovic.

my post was response to fed..rds post that nole can not be GOAT because he lost 2 GS finals against muzza. so you took h2h talk here. then you talk about cluchness. so, are you really, as fed fans, talking about h2h and mental strength? think before you write something, think about eg 40-15 3 times in slams!
 

JackGates

Legend
my post was response to fed..rds post that nole can not be GOAT because he lost 2 GS finals against muzza. so you took h2h talk here. then you talk about cluchness. so, are you really, as fed fans, talking about h2h and mental strength? think before you write something, think about eg 40-15 3 times in slams!
Fed never lost GS finals to Wawrinka and Murray, so Fed is more clutch than Djokovic. Big 3 are all goats, it's mostly luck how they play vs each other who is better on the day, but mental toughness comes into play when you are playing worse players when they have good days and you have bad days, Fed won 24 finals in a row and made 10 GS finals in a row twice, so clearly Fed is more clutch.
 

JackGates

Legend
Fed has has one more slam than McEnroe, Becker and Edberg all together. Such exercises don’t mean much though.
Actually this means a lot, this is crazy considering they are 3 freaking legends. Which means more likely this era is very inflated, Fed is good, but I don't think he is that good.
 

Druss

Hall of Fame
This changes things and it's quite a surprise. So Borg is mentally the toughest out there. Plus, I'm surprised Federer scores so high, why do then people call Fed mentally weak, he won when he was supposed to win, except one Delpo fluke.
Jack, you may find this thread interesting: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...slam-final-oppenents-subjective.668279/page-5
Some good knowledgable TTW posters on there pretty much all (bar the trolls) rating Federer of Wimby 2014/15/19 at either 7, 7.5 or 8 on 10. Those that rated Fed of Wimby 2008, put him at 9 on 10. The general consensus is that 2008 Fed > 2014/15/19 (at Wimby).
 

JackGates

Legend
Jack, you may find this thread interesting: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...slam-final-oppenents-subjective.668279/page-5
Some good knowledgable TTW posters on there pretty much all (bar the trolls) rating Federer of Wimby 2014/15/19 at either 7, 7.5 or 8 on 10. Those that rated Fed of Wimby 2008, put him at 9 on 10. The general consensus is that 2008 Fed > 2014/15/19 (at Wimby).
Haha, you putting knowledgable and TTW in the same sentence. That is an oxymoron. By default I don't consider majority of online folks knowledgable. Unless it's rts gamers and programers, by default you need high brain to be good there.

And I doubt most people here are high level rts gamers or programers, so I don't value their opinions much.
 

lucky13

Semi-Pro
Fed never lost GS finals to Wawrinka and Murray, so Fed is more clutch than Djokovic. Big 3 are all goats, it's mostly luck how they play vs each other who is better on the day, but mental toughness comes into play when you are playing worse players when they have good days and you have bad days, Fed won 24 finals in a row and made 10 GS finals in a row twice, so clearly Fed is more clutch.
no he is not!

nole is the most clutch player in tennis history by some margin!

Under Pressure Leaders Versus All Players On All Surfaces For Career:

Under Pressure Standing©
Player
Under Pressure Rating©% Break Points Converted% Break Points Saved% Tie Breaks Won% Deciding Sets Won
1 Novak Djokovic248.444.3%65.4%64.9%73.8%
2 Pete Sampras241.940.6%67.9%64.1%69.3%
3 Rafael Nadal241.144.9%66.6%60.7%68.9%
4 Roger Federer239.441.2%67.3%65.3%65.6%


won matches with saves MP and lost matches with wasted MP:

fed won 22 matches where he saved MP an lost 24 (6 in GS and 3 of them vs nole) vhere he wasted MP. nole won 15 matches with saved MP an lost only 3 with wasted MP!


Federer:
2020: Sandgren 7
2019: Monfils 2, Coric 2, Thiem -2, Nole -2
2018: JM Del Potro -3, Benoit Paire 2, K Anderson -1
2017: Haas -1, Donskoy -3, Berdih 2
2016: Thiem -2, Cilic 3
2015: Kyrgios -2
2014: J. Monfils 2, L. Mayer 5, S. Wawrinka 4, J. Chardy -1
2013: T. Berdih -3
2011: F. Lopes 1, Nole -2
2010: Monfils -5, Baghdatis -3, Nole -2, Berdich -1
2006: O. Rochus 4, Roddick 3, Nadal -2
2005: Ferrero 2, Gasquet -3, Safin -1
2003. S. Draper 7, Verkerk 4, Aggasi 2, A Costa -3
2002: Haas -1, Escudé -1
2001: Massu 3, T.Johansson 1, Rafter -1, Novak -1
2000: Ljubicic 2, Hewit 1, wessels 1, Henman -2
1999: Raoux 2

22-24 (62-48)

Nole:
2020: Monfils 2
2019: JM Del Potro 2, Federer 2
2018: Cilic -1
2017: Verdasko 5
2015: Gulbis 2
2012: Andy 5, Tsonga 4
2011: Fed 2, Berdych 1
2010: Kohlschreiber 3, Fed 2
2009: Serra 5, Stepanek 3, Nadal -3
2007: Chela 2, Youzny -3
2005: G. Lopes 6

15-3 (47-7)

nole vs fed h2h is 27 (+ WO) - 23. but the more important moment or match the more advantage goes to nole!

h2h: 27 (+ WO) - 23 (45%)
but, All finals: 13 (+ WO) - 6 (30%)

Grand Slam matches: 11– 6 (35%)
but, GS F: 4 - 1 (20%)

WTF: 3 (+ WO) - 3 (43%)
but, WTF F: 2 (+ WO) - 0 (0%)

all sets: 73 - 74 (50%)
non-decisive sets: 58 - 69 (54%)
but, Deciding sets: 14–5 (26%)

Tiebreak sets: 16-12 (43%)
non-decisive TB: 12 - 12 (50%)
but, Deciding Tiebreaks: 4-0 (0%)
 
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Nadal_King

Hall of Fame
Ok Fed fans
In 2012 post french- Rafa(11)+Novak(5) = Roger(16)
Now Andy+Novak= Roger
So going by this federer has lessened by a margin of what nadal and murray have lol
Whats next deducting cilic from novak rafa tally
 

Fiero425

Legend
no he is not!

nole is the most clutch player in tennis history by some margin!

Under Pressure Leaders Versus All Players On All Surfaces For Career:

Under Pressure Standing©
Player
Under Pressure Rating©% Break Points Converted% Break Points Saved% Tie Breaks Won% Deciding Sets Won
1 Novak Djokovic248.444.3%65.4%64.9%73.8%
2 Pete Sampras241.940.6%67.9%64.1%69.3%
3 Rafael Nadal241.144.9%66.6%60.7%68.9%
4 Roger Federer239.441.2%67.3%65.3%65.6%


won matches with saves MP and lost matches with wasted MP:

fed won 22 matches where he saved MP an lost 24 vhere he wasted MP. nole won 15 matches with saved MP an lost only 3 with wasted MP!


Federer:
2020: Sandgren 7
2019: Monfils 2, Coric 2, Thiem -2, Nole -2
2018: JM Del Potro -3, Benoit Paire 2, K Anderson -1
2017: Haas -1, Donskoy -3, Berdih 2
2016: Thiem -2, Cilic 3
2015: Kyrgios -2
2014: J. Monfils 2, L. Mayer 5, S. Wawrinka 4, J. Chardy -1
2013: T. Berdih -3
2011: F. Lopes 1, Nole -2
2010: Monfils -5, Baghdatis -3, Nole -2, Berdich -1
2006: O. Rochus 4, Roddick 3, Nadal -2
2005: Ferrero 2, Gasquet -3, Safin -1
2003. S. Draper 7, Verkerk 4, Aggasi 2, A Costa -3
2002: Haas -1, Escudé -1
2001: Massu 3, T.Johansson 1, Rafter -1, Novak -1
2000: Ljubicic 2, Hewit 1, wessels 1, Henman -2
1999: Raoux 2

22-24 (62-48)

Nole:
2020: Monfils 2
2019: JM Del Potro 2, Federer 2
2018: Cilic -1
2017: Verdasko 5
2015: Gulbis 2
2012: Andy 5, Tsonga 4
2011: Fed 2, Berdych 1
2010: Kohlschreiber 3, Fed 2
2009: Serra 5, Stepanek 3, Nadal -3
2007: Chela 2, Youzny -3
2005: G. Lopes 6

15-3 (47-7)

nole vs fed h2h is 27 (+ WO) - 23. but the more important moment or match the more advantage goes to nole!

h2h: 27 (+ WO) - 23 (45%)
but, All finals: 13 (+ WO) - 6 (30%)

Grand Slam matches: 11– 6 (35%)
but, GS F: 4 - 1 (20%)

WTF: 3 (+ WO) - 3 (43%)
but, WTF F: 2 (+ WO) - 0 (0%)

all sets: 73 - 74 (50%)
non-decisive sets: 58 - 69 (54%)
but, Deciding sets: 14–5 (26%)

Tiebreak sets: 16-12 (43%)
non-decisive TB: 12 - 12 (50%)
but, Deciding Tiebreaks: 4-0 (0%)

It's a wonder the word "clutch" is being invoked concerning Fed when the biggest examples of chokes occurred against Nole several different times when the match was Roger's for the taking! Nole should have a t-shirt with the quote of "Serving 40-15" on his chest just for Roger to see it when he gets too puffed up on his own popularity! :-D
 

StannisTheMannis

Hall of Fame
Federer has the same amount of slams by himself as 2 members of the Big 4 combined.

Federer (20) = Djokovic (17) + Murray (3)

If this isn’t proof that Djokovic isn’t Goat material then I don’t know what is. Murray is one of our biggest and finest champions and yet even if you add his slams to Djokovic’s slams, Djokovic still can’t surpass Federer. :unsure: :oops:

And now also (edit):

Nadal (20) = Djokovic (17) + Murray (3)
Federer and Murray can’t even equal Novak. Soon enough Nadal will fall to the same fate.

Oooooof
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Federer has the same amount of slams by himself as 2 members of the Big 4 combined.

Federer (20) = Djokovic (17) + Murray (3)

If this isn’t proof that Djokovic isn’t Goat material then I don’t know what is. Murray is one of our biggest and finest champions and yet even if you add his slams to Djokovic’s slams, Djokovic still can’t surpass Federer. :unsure: :oops:

And now also (edit):

Nadal (20) = Djokovic (17) + Murray (3)
Since we all know the OP is still here...

mj-laughing.gif
 
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