Djokovic, Nadal & Federer Reveal Why They're Still Motivated

#1

Can we just declare them Co-GOATs and be done with it? At the end of the day they'll all be around 20 slams/100 titles/300 weeks at #1. The real story is how they're leagues ahead of anyone else in history. Can we just enjoy the rest of their era without the fan wars?

Edit: Ok, I can see a case for Borg, Laver and Sampras to be IN the discussion but that's all!
 
#12
Laver and Borg are in the discussion because both have done things the big3 have not. Laver CYGS, Borg 5+ both Wimbledon and RG.

But Sampras has been passed in pretty much every single metric.
 
#21

Can we just declare them Co-GOATs and be done with it? At the end of the day they'll all be around 20 slams/100 titles/300 weeks at #1. The real story is how they're leagues ahead of anyone else in history. Can we just enjoy the rest of their era without the fan wars?

Edit: Ok, I can see a case for Borg, Laver and Sampras to be IN the discussion but that's all!
I, essentially, consider them the 3 GOATs, and it's certainly possible to very much appreciate, like and respect all three. (It's not that hard if one is a true tennis fan.) That's not the norm, though, for whatever reasons, as this thread has, and will continue to, demonstrate.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
#22
I, essentially, consider them the 3 GOATs, and it's certainly possible to very much appreciate, like and respect all three. (It's not that hard if one is a true tennis fan.) That's not the norm, though, for whatever reasons, as this thread has, and will continue to, demonstrate.
Sometimes people get so caught up in these GOAT wars and their personal animosities that they often don't see that all three helped and made each other the tennis Gods they are today. They all did this together, pushing each other on to unparalleled heights, through their competitive fire.

W 2007, W 2008, AO 2009, RG 2011, USO 2011, AO 2012, RG 2013, W 2014, AO 2017, W 2018 - Iconic matches that will stand the test of time
 

Towny

Professional
#23
Sometimes people get so caught up in these GOAT wars and their personal animosities that they often don't see that all three helped and made each other the tennis Gods they are today. They all did this together, pushing each other on to unparalleled heights, through their competitive fire.

W 2007, W 2008, AO 2009, RG 2011, USO 2011, AO 2012, RG 2013, W 2014, AO 2017, W 2018 - Iconic matches that will stand the test of time
It really has been a privilege to watch these guys play such terrific matches over the years. As a Fed fan, I care far more about being able to watch Fed play in these kinds of matches than him preserving the slam record.
 
#25

Can we just declare them Co-GOATs and be done with it? At the end of the day they'll all be around 20 slams/100 titles/300 weeks at #1. The real story is how they're leagues ahead of anyone else in history. Can we just enjoy the rest of their era without the fan wars?

Edit: Ok, I can see a case for Borg, Laver and Sampras to be IN the discussion but that's all!
Throw out Laver for the OE only, because most of his OE stats are over the age of 30, BUT:

On the basis of those results, and then on the basis of what Gonzalez did, if we go back earlier I want to put him in, and probably Kramer. The problem is that there is no common metric to compare the touring pros with OE pros.

We also might want to look at career peaks, because it simply was not possible a few decades ago for players en masse to continue playing for such a long time. I want to throw peak JMac into the discussion.

The problem is that what we see today was not possible with wood and gut, and the insane training they have now was also not possible. Look at the machines they all use now. In comparison to that what guys used in the 50s and 60s was pathetically primitive.

I say, just enjoy what we are seeing. It is insanely entertaining. We are very lucky to see it happening.
 
#26
Sometimes people get so caught up in these GOAT wars and their personal animosities that they often don't see that all three helped and made each other the tennis Gods they are today. They all did this together, pushing each other on to unparalleled heights, through their competitive fire.

W 2007, W 2008, AO 2009, RG 2011, USO 2011, AO 2012, RG 2013, W 2014, AO 2017, W 2018 - Iconic matches that will stand the test of time
That's the bottom line. These amazing players have forced each other to continue to evolve at an age when we except them to just fade away. The combination of poly, training, sports medicine and so on has changed the sport, very obvious if you track things from around 1999 through to today.
 
#27
Spoken like a true tennis fan. Sometimes we forget why we watch this sport.
Agreed - and Hitman, you posted a nice collection of at least one pivotal match from each of 10 majors. For tennis enthusiasts, I think that we each come away with some mental images (with admittedly, emotions attached, sometimes differing ones) for each of those tourneys.
 
#28
Sometimes people get so caught up in these GOAT wars and their personal animosities that they often don't see that all three helped and made each other the tennis Gods they are today. They all did this together, pushing each other on to unparalleled heights, through their competitive fire.

W 2007, W 2008, AO 2009, RG 2011, USO 2011, AO 2012, RG 2013, W 2014, AO 2017, W 2018 - Iconic matches that will stand the test of time
I absolutely agree, and this might be the best era in sports, ever. All 3 (or 4) improved each other, and also prevented each other from even greater records, such that it's clear that all 3 are better than any other players in history.

Having said that, it's clear to me that as of now, Roger is the overall GOAT with Novak a close 2nd*, and Nadal is the King of Clay but off it "merely" ATG.

*With the caveat that neither are done and Novak may well finish ahead, or close enough that neither can claim it.

Is it important to me that Fedr = GOAT? Yeah, in all honesty I guess it does, a bit. I'm a fan of his. I'll be a fan of his even if he's not the GOAT, because of style and class, but mainly it annoys me that people cherry pick data and focus on things like H2H that don't mean as much as they think.

So that's my honest rant: I try not to get dragged into goat debates, but I wish everyone else could just leave it alone for a while so we could just be fans of the sport.
 

Towny

Professional
#29
Spoken like a true tennis fan. Sometimes we forget why we watch this sport.
Wimbledon 2016 was a clear example of this for me. Gutted though I was that Federer was not at full fitness to take advantage of Djokovic's early exit, I thoroughly enjoyed his run. The nail biter with Cilic, when Fed somehow came through with the win was great to watch and was a flash of the old Federer magic. The loss to Raonic was disappointing but I still enjoyed the tournament as a whole. At the time, I felt ' if Fed can still play matches like this, it's all worth it'. Little did I know he'd come back to play his phenomenal AO 2017. What a treat that was!
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
#30
That's the bottom line. These amazing players have forced each other to continue to evolve at an age when we except them to just fade away. The combination of poly, training, sports medicine and so on has changed the sport, very obvious if you track things from around 1999 through to today.
Agreed - and Hitman, you posted a nice collection of at least one pivotal match from each of 10 majors. For tennis enthusiasts, I think that we each come away with some mental images (with admittedly, emotions attached, sometimes differing ones) for each of those tourneys.
I absolutely agree, and this might be the best era in sports, ever. All 3 (or 4) improved each other, and also prevented each other from even greater records, such that it's clear that all 3 are better than any other players in history.

Having said that, it's clear to me that as of now, Roger is the overall GOAT with Novak a close 2nd*, and Nadal is the King of Clay but off it "merely" ATG.

*With the caveat that neither are done and Novak may well finish ahead, or close enough that neither can claim it.

Is it important to me that Fedr = GOAT? Yeah, in all honesty I guess it does, a bit. I'm a fan of his. I'll be a fan of his even if he's not the GOAT, because of style and class, but mainly it annoys me that people cherry pick data and focus on things like H2H that don't mean as much as they think.

So that's my honest rant: I try not to get dragged into goat debates, but I wish everyone else could just leave it alone for a while so we could just be fans of the sport.
Wimbledon 2016 was a clear example of this for me. Gutted though I was that Federer was not at full fitness to take advantage of Djokovic's early exit, I thoroughly enjoyed his run. The nail biter with Cilic, when Fed somehow came through with the win was great to watch and was a flash of the old Federer magic. The loss to Raonic was disappointing but I still enjoyed the tournament as a whole. At the time, I felt ' if Fed can still play matches like this, it's all worth it'. Little did I know he'd come back to play his phenomenal AO 2017. What a treat that was!

Well said all of you, and that is why we shouldn't hate these guys. They have built some of the most amazing moments not only in tennis, but sporting history. Would RG 2013 for Nadal, AO 2017 for Federer and W 2018 for Djokovic been as special for their comeback from injury if they didn't have their greatest rival to push them onto even greater heights, so they can taste the sweetest victory and only add to their legacy?

We should appreciate what we have while we have it, and not get so caught up in all these fights, because when it is gone, it will be gone for good. We are so lucky that we are getting to witness this all live as it happens, generations that follow will only watch this on some highlight reel. You all will be the ones telling them how you walked amongst giants and lived in the time of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic.
 
#31
Well said all of you, and that is why we shouldn't hate these guys. They have built some of the most amazing moments not only in tennis, but sporting history. Would RG 2013 for Nadal, AO 2017 for Federer and W 2018 for Djokovic been as special for their comeback from injury if they didn't have their greatest rival to push them onto even greater heights, so they can taste the sweetest victory and only add to their legacy?

We should appreciate what we have while we have it, and not get so caught up in all these fights, because when it is gone, it will be gone for good. We are so lucky that we are getting to witness this all live as it happens, generations that follow will only watch this on some highlight reel. You all will be the ones telling them how you walked amongst giants and lived in the time of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic.
It's happened twice for me now, because the first time it was Connors, Borg and McEnroe! Sadly the first group did not keep playing for such a long time and at near peak level. Connors stayed near the top the longest. Mac faded quicker, and Borg burned the brightest but then suddenly disappeared. Borg's retirement was really hard for me. I did not feel as passionate about tennis until Becker arrived on the scene.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
#32
It's happened twice for me now, because the first time it was Connors, Borg and McEnroe! Sadly the first group did not keep playing for such a long time and at near peak level. Connors stayed near the top the longest. Mac faded quicker, and Borg burned the brightest but then suddenly disappeared. Borg's retirement was really hard for me. I did not feel as passionate about tennis until Becker arrived on the scene.
Then you know better than most. ;)
 
#34
That's the price of being old! I tell my students I was around with Fred, Wilma and Dino. Most of them are too young to get the joke. :D

You date yourself by the things you remember that no one living remembers, and I'm getting there too fast!
I'm not far behind you, although I'm sorry: Fred, Wilma and Dino were not The Big 3 for me, though Fred may have been the best "stone court" player.
Now, if we go back to Ralph, Norton and Alice ... (sorry for the obscure reference of my all-time favorite sitcom, but back to tennis).
 
#35
As someone who doesn't think there is a GOAT, these three have still delivered the most to the tennis world. I'm super thankful they're still playing so we can watch their phenomenal talent every time they step on the court
 

DSH

Professional
#37

Can we just declare them Co-GOATs and be done with it? At the end of the day they'll all be around 20 slams/100 titles/300 weeks at #1. The real story is how they're leagues ahead of anyone else in history. Can we just enjoy the rest of their era without the fan wars?

Edit: Ok, I can see a case for Borg, Laver and Sampras to be IN the discussion but that's all!

Who are those 3?
I do not know them!
 

Rosstour

Professional
#38
Well said all of you, and that is why we shouldn't hate these guys.
Why isn't it OK to hate (on) Nadal for being a poor sport who games the system? His behavior in the Kyrgios match was shameful and his comments afterwards were worse.

I cannot imagine Fed or Djok doing that crap on an opponents' serve, esp not on MP...and then following it up by trashing the guy who just beat them, and then doing it again.

There's a lot to respect about Rafa, but more to dislike as well. I cannot stand his antics and I don't think they respect the spirit of the game.
 
#39
Sometimes people get so caught up in these GOAT wars and their personal animosities that they often don't see that all three helped and made each other the tennis Gods they are today. They all did this together, pushing each other on to unparalleled heights, through their competitive fire.

W 2007, W 2008, AO 2009, RG 2011, USO 2011, AO 2012, RG 2013, W 2014, AO 2017, W 2018 - Iconic matches that will stand the test of time
And USO 2013 (sorry, I had to include it, as it is one of my favorite matches).

On point, yes, people typically gets caught up in GOAT wars forgetting how fortunate we are to live the 3 Kings Era. I guess that makes me guilty, as I am one of those who gets usually involved in those wars.
 

3lite

Professional
#40
Why isn't it OK to hate (on) Nadal for being a poor sport who games the system? His behavior in the Kyrgios match was shameful and his comments afterwards were worse.

I cannot imagine Fed or Djok doing that crap on an opponents' serve, esp not on MP...and then following it up by trashing the guy who just beat them, and then doing it again.

There's a lot to respect about Rafa, but more to dislike as well. I cannot stand his antics and I don't think they respect the spirit of the game.
Watch Federer's post-game interviews of his USO 2010 and 2011 losses to Novak Djokovic.
 
#41
Why isn't it OK to hate (on) Nadal for being a poor sport who games the system? His behavior in the Kyrgios match was shameful and his comments afterwards were worse.

I cannot imagine Fed or Djok doing that crap on an opponents' serve, esp not on MP...and then following it up by trashing the guy who just beat them, and then doing it again.

There's a lot to respect about Rafa, but more to dislike as well. I cannot stand his antics and I don't think they respect the spirit of the game.
After the AO 2014 loss to Nadal, Federer was a bad sport and complained about Nadal's grunting (?), which is simply part of his game and 100% accepted within the rules.

After the USO 2011 loss to Djokovic, Federer refused to acknolewdge merit to Djokovic and said he was just lucky.
 

Rosstour

Professional
#42
Watch Federer's post-game interviews of his USO 2010 and 2011 losses to Novak Djokovic.
After the AO 2014 loss to Nadal, Federer was a bad sport and complained about Nadal's grunting (?), which is simply part of his game and 100% accepted within the rules.

After the USO 2011 loss to Djokovic, Federer refused to acknolewdge merit to Djokovic and said he was just lucky.
All well and good. Still doesn't rise to the level of Nadal's offenses.

Can you think of any time that Federer or Djokovic just let an ace go by, in the ready position, and then say "no no no" and get a do-over? On MP no less?

Can you think of any time they did anything that dirty in a match and did it repeatedly?

Fed may have been ungracious after those matches but he did not stoop to the level Rafa did in taking personal shots at Kyrgios. And after that, did he bring it up again? No he didn't.

Sorry but I'm tired of having to respect this guy because he's done a lot for tennis and has won a crazy amount of French Opens. His sportsmanship sucks and anyone with any common sense knows he's a cheat on multiple levels (#SyringeEmoji).
 
#43
All well and good. Still doesn't rise to the level of Nadal's offenses.

Can you think of any time that Federer or Djokovic just let an ace go by, in the ready position, and then say "no no no" and get a do-over? On MP no less?

Can you think of any time they did anything that dirty in a match and did it repeatedly?

Fed may have been ungracious after those matches but he did not stoop to the level Rafa did in taking personal shots at Kyrgios. And after that, did he bring it up again? No he didn't.

Sorry but I'm tired of having to respect this guy because he's done a lot for tennis and has won a crazy amount of French Opens. His sportsmanship sucks and anyone with any common sense knows he's a cheat on multiple levels (#SyringeEmoji).
Rafa Nadal is a legend
 

mxmx

Professional
#44
That's the price of being old! I tell my students I was around with Fred, Wilma and Dino. Most of them are too young to get the joke. :D

You date yourself by the things you remember that no one living remembers, and I'm getting there too fast!
Your opinion of Sampras will matter more to me just because you're old and have been there to see the truth.
 
#45
You date yourself by the things you remember that no one living remembers, and I'm getting there too fast!
I was chatting to a lad at my local club about things I'd worked on that he might know of and it's only afterwards I realised one of the earlier ones I'd mentioned was released before he was born :oops:
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
#46
I was chatting to a lad at my local club about things I'd worked on that he might know of and it's only afterwards I realised one of the earlier ones I'd mentioned was released before he was born :oops:
That is unforgivable: find yourself hitting partners of respectable age.

Only acceptable exception is if you talk to gals about things from before they were born.

:giggle:
 
#47
I cannot imagine Fed or Djok doing that crap on an opponents' serve, esp not on MP...and then following it up by trashing the guy who just beat them, and then doing it again.
Take a read of these articles. It's an ongoing story from Djokovic. They do say leopards never change their spots.

Djokovic uses rules to his advantage
http://www.espn.com/sports/tennis/usopen05/news/story?id=2147241

Stan Wawrinka calls for more transparency over medical time-outs after Novak Djokovic struggles in US Open final
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/...for-more-transparency-over-medical-time-outs/

Novak Djokovic pushes use of trainer to limit before US Open final
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/10/novak-djokovic-trainer-use-stan-wawrinka-us-open-final

Novak Djokovic explains medical time out during Adrian Mannarino win at Cincinnati Masters
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/ten...-time-out-Adrian-Mannarino-Cincinnati-Masters

Federer hasn't received this amount of criticism with good reason, but he has had his moments and he hasn't always been the most gracious of losers. He has made snide remarks about many players.

Federer hit out at the way the WTA rankings were calculated, saying a player who has never won a grand slam should not be granted the number one spot.
Federer is a great champion, I don't want to get in a fight with him but why does he care, I really don't understand. Why does he need to do that?"

Federer also led the charge against Jankovic's compatriot Novak Djokovic when he quit because of the heat in his Australian Open quarter-final match against Andy Roddick.

"I'm almost in favour of saying, you know what, if you're not fit enough, just get out of here," the Swiss said.

Jankovic said Federer should not criticise fellow players.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/t...ankovic-fires-broadside-at-Roger-Federer.html
Pat Cash slams Roger Federer's medical timeout as 'legal cheating'
http://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/18579346/pat-cash-slams-roger-federer-medical-legal-cheating


I realize that Nadal isn't without fault, but it is often exaggerated and the faults of others are ignored.
 
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Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
#50
I realize that Nadal isn't without fault, but it is often exaggerated and the faults of others are ignored.
No, it is not "exaggerated". If anything, outside of this (and I imagine other tennis) forum the media is quite tolerant towards the gamesmanship package Nadal uses.

The faults of others are not ignored either: as rare as Federer's violations are, they are given inordinate amount of air because he is Federer (and Federer rarely conducts himself in an inappropriate manner, let alone on purpose).

Djokovic's and Del Potro's violations are also underrepresented in the media, considering that both were also serial offenders of the time rules.

:cool:
 
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