Djokovic not happy with faster US Open serve clock

Tennease

Legend
I thought players know that ATP tournaments and ITF Grand Slam tournaments have different serve clock?


The World No.1 was clearly frustrated during the match when he clashed with the chair umpire over the serve clock.

Djokovic who won his fourth title of the year at the Western & Southern Open on Saturday, pointed out the US Open officials were starting the serve clock earlier than the warm-up event.

This didn’t sit well with Djokovic who claimed he wasn’t told about the subtle change.

“I was not aware of it. No one really brought it to my attention. The lack of communication is something that worries me once again,” he said in the press conference following the match.

“That’s something that really upset me. I don’t mind if someone communicates and maybe asks the opinion of us players because we’re the ones who are supposed to play. But it’s going to greatly affect the match.’

“We’ve played at a certain tempo, so to say, got used to it during the Western & Southern tournament, which just ended two days ago.

“Two days later we have a different rule that was just not communicated to us. That’s something that I found just not acceptable, not fair.”

 

NiCo515

Rookie
Why is this random nobody on twitter acting like everyone is aware of this obscure and unprecedented rule change? Novak has a valid point. If you're going to make a major rule change a day before the tournament, at least announce it. Clowns.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Why is this random nobody on twitter acting like everyone is aware of this obscure and unprecedented rule change? Novak has a valid point. If you're going to make a major rule change a day before the tournament, at least announce it. Clowns.

it is the player duty to know the rules and obey them.
clashing with umpire for enforcing the rule? yeah, sounds about the correct example for all the kids watching Novak.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
That rule has been in force from at least a couple of years.

Is Djokovic getting senile, or is he now using every opportunity to start accusing the Tour of lack of communication?

Which one?

:cool:

I remember how Novak was grudging about Fed being bumped up in Wimbledon seeding.
It's amazing how Novak forgot in 12 months or so how he was bumped up and was seed #12 instead of twenty something when he won the Wimbledon after his elbow surgery and after losing to Istomin, Taro Daniel and Cecchinato.

Perhaps his father expresses what the honest guy Novak doesn't want to say, cause he is afraid to lose sponsors?
oh, wait, Novak isn't a corporate soldier like Federer and Nadal.
Oh birdy, birdy.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Djokovic's concerns actually have some statistical proof.

The Cincinatti Masters was slower than average because even though the start of the shot clock should have meant quicker points the umpires allowed time for players grabbing their own towels.

The USO officials probably noticed the slowing of play and decided that the start of the shot clock should be even more strictly enforced to speed the game up.

Djokovic is probably annoyed at this shift, especially if it was not communicated, but it seems a good idea based on what they learnt last week.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Rules need interpretation, and interpretation is the key here, so maybe you're the one who is senile here (see above).

That rule has been in force from at least a couple of years.

Is Djokovic getting senile, or is he now using every opportunity to start accusing the Tour of lack of communication?
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Rules need interpretation, and interpretaion is the key here, so maybe you're the one who is senile here (see above).

if the rule says x seconds between points, then it is x seconds between points.

technically, point ends when the ball hits out, or a fixed posture or double bounce.
next point starts when the player hits 1st service.

let's not try to re-invent the wheel where it is not needed.
 
Djokovic's concerns actually have some statistical proof.

The Cincinatti Masters was actually slower than average because even though the start of the shot clock should have meant quicker starts the umpires allowed time for players grabbing their towels.

The USO officials probably noticed the slowing of play and decided that the start of the shot clock should be even more strictly enforced to speed the game up.

Djokovic is probably annoyed at this shift, especially if it was not communicated, but it seems a good idea based on what they learnt last week.

NOV19-Gervais-Laughing.gif


The words "I was not aware of it", cannot relate to any way the umpires apply the rule, but only to the rule itself.

:cool:
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
When an umpire does this varies, according to the statistics themselves.

The Masters should have gone more quickly than average because of the lack of a crowd, but instead it went far slower.

How do you explain that?

if the rule says x seconds between points, then it is x seconds between points.

technically, point ends when the ball hits out, or a fixed posture or double bounce.
next point starts when the player hits 1st service.

let's not try to re-invent the wheel where it is not needed.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
When an umpire does this varies, according to the statistics themselves.

The Masters should have gone more quickly than average because of the lack of a crowd, but instead it went far slower.

How do you explain that?

I find it interesting that Novak decided to complain about the USO and not about the W&S Open.
Technically, the W&S Open were breaking / not enforcing the rule, isn't it Bart?

It would be stupid to assume that a pro player like Novak doesn't know when the point ends.
I can't recall seeing him hitting the ball after double bounce, or running to chase a ball that flies out.
So, I assume that Novak knows when the point ends.
And I assume that Novak knows when the next point starts.
Don't you Bart?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Here is a quotation from the article cited in the OP:

Djokovic who won his fourth title of the year at the Western & Southern Open on Saturday, pointed out the US Open officials were starting the serve clock earlier than the warm-up event.

I don't have the two rules books opened on the page concerning shot clock start times, but the rules are subject to various interpretations, varying from lax to laxer.

This is a completely stupid interpretation.

Are you really saying that Djokovic does not know there is a different shot clock rule?

The hate within you flows strongly.
 
Last edited:

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
It depends on how the rule is interpreted. You could say this is about breaking/not enforcing ...

but the statistical evidence I have seen indicates that the clock has increased time between points.

When the shot clock was mooted I pointed out that it's not a buzzer that either initiates or stops play.

The question of when the point ends may seem self-evident but the reality is statistics show it is not.

If it were, and if other elements were strictly enforced, this would show up in the statistics.

I find it interesting that Novak decided to complain about the USO and not about the W&S Open.
Technically, the W&S Open were breaking / not enforcing the rule, isn't it Bart?

It would be stupid to assume that a pro player like Novak doesn't know when the point ends.
I can't recall seeing him hitting the ball after double bounce, or running to chase a ball that flies out.
So, I assume that Novak knows when the point ends.
And I assume that Novak knows when the next point starts.
Don't you Bart?
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
It depends on how the rule is interpreted. You could say this is about breaking/not enforcing ...

but the statistical evidence I have seen indicates that the clock has increased time between points.

When the shot clock was mooted I pointed out that it's not a buzzer that either initiates or stops play.

The question of when the point ends may seem self-evident but the reality is statistics show it is not.

If it were, and if other elements were strictly enforced, this would show up in the statistics.

ok.
why don't we see other players complaining?
why it is always the same 2?

does ATP communicate the rules to everyone else but forgets them?
or they got way to used to primadona treatment and are enraged when being treated like everyone else?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Probably because the complaints of important players are reported whereas all the outside court disputes just disappear.

ok.
why don't we see other players complaining?
why it is always the same 2?

does ATP communicate the rules to everyone else but forgets them?
or they got way to used to primadona treatment and are enraged when being treated like everyone else?
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Probably because the complaints of important players are reported whereas all the outside court disputes just disappear.

or not.
or probably the two got used that they could take as much time between points as they need, so now they are furious when they have to obey the rules like everyone else.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The question is when do the umpires initiate the countdown.

At the Masters there was an average of 44 seconds between point ending and play, not 25.

Have they hidden the clock this year?

US-Open-1012599.jpg


Pretty hard to not be aware of that.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
The question is when do the umpires initiate the countdown.

At the Masters there was an average of 44 seconds between point ending and play, not 25.

no Bart.
That isn't the question. In fact it is an irrelevant question because the display shows how much time the player has before serve.

That question would be correct if only the umpire knew when the timing starts, and the poor players have to count till 25 in their minds.
 

thrust

Legend
Djokovic should be banned from the tour, should have been banned as soon as he held the coronavirus party.
What a pathetic excuse for a human being.
So, what makes you special? Novak is a 17 slam winner, has won 80 tournaments, won all Masters titles at least twice,, held all four slams at once, which is something neither Nadal or Federer has done. He did not force any player to play his Adria Tour or go to an legally opened night club. Hate him all you like, but fact is, Novak Djokovic is one of the very greatest tennis players of all time and a guy to gives millions of dollars to help poor people in his Country.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The players don't even look at the clock, so that's not much use, they play by tempo ... so if umpires push the button quicker or slower then this has an effect on their tempo.

no Bart.
That isn't the question. In fact it is an irrelevant question because the display shows how much time the player has before serve.

That question would be correct if only the umpire knew when the timing starts, and the poor players have to count till 25 in their minds.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
The players don't even look at the clock, so that's not much use, they play by tempo ... so if umpires push the button quicker or slower then this has an effect on their tempo.

and ATP is guilty that it provides a display, well seen on TV, but players refuse to check it?

oh, wow Bart.
You're on a roll today.
 

Milanez82

Hall of Fame
Refs always used to take into account length of rally, crowd delirium before resetting the timer
The greater these 2 were, the higher the time between shot clock reset

Now while there is no crowd to interrupt play, players have to use up time fetching towels
 

weakera

Talk Tennis Guru
A fixed shot clock is so mind numbingly stupid and ill conceived. Why the same amount of time is used after an ace as a 20-shot rally is a mystery which will never be solved.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
And the towel retrieval is precisely what they did take into account at Cincinnati, but they obviously decided to do things differently at the USO.

People in the thread don't even know what they are talking about. There was a point in the match where Djokovic went to towel off before his serve and got a warning. Djokovic was peeved because he shouldn't have started the clock so fast but that umpire is usually a jerk anyway. Up to that point, the commentators said he was taking on average 15 seconds per point so the warning was uncalled for. Simce players have to get their own towels, they should have taken that into account with the shot clock.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
It's the same with any rule. Its designed for the average case. It would be too complicated to vary it according to the length of the last point played.

A fixed shot clock is so mind numbingly stupid and ill conceived. Why the same amount of time is used after an ace as a 20-shot rally is a mystery which will never be solved.
 
People in the thread don't even know what they are talking about. There was a point in the match where Djokovic went to towel off before his serve and got a warning. Djokovic was peeved because he shouldn't have started the clock so fast but that umpire is usually a jerk anyway. Up to that point, the commentators said he was taking on average 15 seconds per point so the warning was uncalled for. Since players have to get their own towels, they should have taken that into account with the shot clock.

This thread is literally one punchline after the next.

:cool:
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
I remember how Novak was grudging about Fed being bumped up in Wimbledon seeding.
It's amazing how Novak forgot in 12 months or so how he was bumped up and was seed #12 instead of twenty something when he won the Wimbledon after his elbow surgery and after losing to Istomin, Taro Daniel and Cecchinato.

Perhaps his father expresses what the honest guy Novak doesn't want to say, cause he is afraid to lose sponsors?
oh, wait, Novak isn't a corporate soldier like Federer and Nadal.
Oh birdy, birdy.

When was this that Djokovic had a problem with Federer's Wimbledon seeding?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Interesting. It seems to go to show that it's not some sort of 'iron rule' that Djokovic just doesn't get. It's a particular umpire.

I think it was mainly the umpire who is a jerk and has clashed with Djokovic and other players before. I mean he literally just went to get his towel and right to the service line and was given a warning.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Word for word exchange between Novak and the umpire

Novak: "Why is the shot clock so fast, I went to grab the towel, why did you start it?"

Umpire: "I start the shot clock after I call the score" can't make what he says after cause audio is bad but Novak interrupts him: "It is the first time I'm going to grab the towel there"

Umpire: "Yes but It is not when you grab the towel I start the clock, it is after I call the score when you are around the baseline"

Novak: "You called the score right away as soon as I missed the backhand, but you didn't know if I'm going to grab the towel or not"

Umpire: "It doesn't matter.."

Novak: "It doesn't matter!? The whole week in Cincinnati..."

Umpire: "We do it different here"

Novak: "You do it here different? Why?

awkward silence...

Novak again: "There is no explanation?"

Umpire: "Well there is but bla bla bla (I can't hear what he says here) then Novak says: "Well thanks for letting us know thanks for the notice".

End of conversation.

So as we see here the real concern is that there were other rules concerning when to start the shot clock in Cincinnati, then they changed that for US Open but Djokovic nor the players didn't know anything about it therefore Novak is wondering why he was starting the shot clock so early when in Cincinnati it was completely different.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
People in the thread don't even know what they are talking about. There was a point in the match where Djokovic went to towel off before his serve and got a warning. Djokovic was peeved because he shouldn't have started the clock so fast but that umpire is usually a jerk anyway. Up to that point, the commentators said he was taking on average 15 seconds per point so the warning was uncalled for. Since players have to get their own towels, they should have taken that into account with the shot clock.

rules are rules.
if we start finding excuses for everything, we will live in chaos tomorrow.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
rules are rules.
if we start finding excuses for everything, we will live in chaos tomorrow.

Rules should also be enforced consistently and not give a player a time warning the 1st time he goes and grabs his towel, when you already know players have to get their own towels and have less time.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
This demonstrates clearly that there was no rule change between Cincinnati and the USO.

They are just interpreting the usual rule more strictly by not taking into account the fact that ball boys don't retrieve towels, which is what they did the previous week.

Word for word exchange between Novak and the umpire

Novak: "Why is the shot clock so fast, I went to grab the towel, why did you start it?"

Umpire: "I start the shot clock after I call the score" can't make what he says after cause audio is bad but Novak interrupts him: "It is the first time I'm going to grab the towel there"

Umpire: "Yes but It is not when you grab the towel I start the clock, it is after I call the score when you are around the baseline"

Novak: "You called the score right away as soon as I missed the backhand, but you didn't know if I'm going to grab the towel or not"

Umpire: "It doesn't matter.."

Novak: "It doesn't matter!? The whole week in Cincinnati..."

Umpire: "We do it different here"

Novak: "You do it here different? Why?

awkward silence...

Novak again: "There is no explanation?"

Umpire: "Well there is but bla bla bla (I can't hear what he says here) then Novak says: "Well thanks for letting us know thanks for the notice".

End of conversation.

So as we see here the real concern is that there were other rules concerning when to start the shot clock in Cincinnati, then they changed that for US Open but Djokovic nor the players didn't know anything about it therefore Novak is wondering why he was starting the shot clock so early when in Cincinnati it was completely different.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
I think it was mainly the umpire who is a jerk and has clashed with Djokovic and other players before. I mean he literally just went to get his towel and right to the service line and was given a warning.

Did he get a warning? I'm not sure about that. This convo between him and the umpire started at 2-1 30-30 second set. Djokovic was just wondering why the umpire was starting the clock so fast cause in Cincinnati it was different . I didnt hear a warning. That wasn't why Novak initiated the conversation.
 
Rules should also be enforced consistently and not give a player a time warning the 1st time he goes and grabs his towel, when you already know players have to get their own towels and have less time.

It is hilarious that you want the rules to be applied consistently and then ask for exemption from them, because Djokovic didn't break them beforehand.

I mean, you are literally contradicting yourself.

:cool:
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Rules should also be enforced consistently and not give a player a time warning the 1st time he goes and grabs his towel, when you already know players have to get their own towels and have less time.

the rules actually say that a player gets a warning first.
other penalties might apply later for repeated violations.

so if we want to be consistent, then the warning is the appropriate measure for the 1st violation, as per rules which Novak should know.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
the rules actually say that a player gets a warning first.
other penalties might apply later for repeated violations.

so if we want to be consistent, then the warning is the appropriate measure for the 1st violation, as per rules which Novak should know.

He didnt get a warning, that wasn't why he initiated the convo in the first place.
 
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