Djokovic, not Roger Federer, was Rafael Nadal's toughest rival - Toni

A

ABCD

Hall of Fame
In an interview to El Confidencial, Rafael Nadal's uncle, Toni, commented on who between Roger Federer and Novak Djokovic was the toughest rival for his nephew. The Spaniard leads the head to head meetings 23-15 over Federer, while he is down 28-25 with Djokovic.

"The most complicated was Djokovic", said Toni. "At least to me. I always felt that, if Djokovic played well, he would have been very tough to beat, more than Federer. He was doing everything well, he was able to attack and defend at a very high level.

He was always very competitive. I wanted the maximum from Rafael." But in 2017, Rafael lost all the four matches against Federer. "For a long time, Federer's game was comfortable to Rafael. But Federer changed tactics.

He turned more aggressive and he made the game being quicker, not allowing Rafa to play his tennis. Rafael needs time to win points. Federer goes at a very high rhythm, accepting that he can make mistakes. But he makes less unforced errors than the rest and so it depends on him."
 
Towny

Towny

Hall of Fame
This just proves that Tío Toni can count. Of course the guy who has beaten Nadal 28 times is going to have been tougher than the guy who only beat Nadal 15 times. That doesn't mean Djokovic was the better player though. Lendl was tougher for McEnroe than Borg. Doesn't mean he was better. Heck, Sampras probably found Krajicek tougher than Agassi.

It doesn't mean Djokovic isn't better than Federer of course. Just that H2H is just one indication and had to be taken in proper context. But this example doesn't really say anything more than Djokovic has beaten Nadal more often than Federer has.
 
Lew II

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Towny said:
This just proves that Tío Toni can count. Of course the guy who has beaten Nadal 28 times is going to have been tougher than the guy who only beat Nadal 15 times. That doesn't mean Djokovic was the better player though. Lendl was tougher for McEnroe than Borg. Doesn't mean he was better. Heck, Sampras probably found Krajicek tougher than Agassi.

It doesn't mean Djokovic isn't better than Federer of course. Just that H2H is just one indication and had to be taken in proper context. But this example doesn't really say anything more than Djokovic has beaten Nadal more often than Federer has.
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Toni didn't say that.
 
Nadal_Django

Nadal_Django

Legend
Towny said:
This just proves that Tío Toni can count. Of course the guy who has beaten Nadal 28 times is going to have been tougher than the guy who only beat Nadal 15 times. That doesn't mean Djokovic was the better player though. Lendl was tougher for McEnroe than Borg. Doesn't mean he was better. Heck, Sampras probably found Krajicek tougher than Agassi.

It doesn't mean Djokovic isn't better than Federer of course. Just that H2H is just one indication and had to be taken in proper context. But this example doesn't really say anything more than Djokovic has beaten Nadal more often than Federer has.
Click to expand...
What this have to do with Toni's claim?
 
Towny

Towny

Hall of Fame
Lew II said:
Toni didn't say that.
Click to expand...
Didn't say what? That Novak is better? I know, but given ABCD's posting history, I expect that is what the implication of the OP is.
Nadal_Django said:
What this have to do with Toni's claim?
Click to expand...
Nothing specifically with Toni's claim. It's more what I suspect the OP is implying, based on posting history. Although, ABCD is very welcome to correct me if he had no intention of implying that Novak was better than Federer based off Toni's statement
 
D

Deleted member 762343

Guest
Nadal said it himself and I think that’s not a surprise for anyone. It doesn’t mean Djokovic is a better player than Federer.
 
junior74

junior74

Bionic Poster
ABCD said:
But in 2017, Rafael lost all the four matches against Federer. "For a long time, Federer's game was comfortable to Rafael. But Federer changed tactics.

He turned more aggressive and he made the game being quicker, not allowing Rafa to play his tennis. Rafael needs time to win points. Federer goes at a very high rhythm, accepting that he can make mistakes. But he makes less unforced errors than the rest and so it depends on him."
Click to expand...

Toni accepts the rivalry is now on Fedr's racquet :unsure:
The old troll never gets tired of mind games
new-york-ny-usa-august-260nw-717613000.jpg
 
junior74

junior74

Bionic Poster
Sport said:
Yeah. One week later he won the final Davis Cup match for his team, while Nadal did not compete until one month later.

1 month > 1 week.
Click to expand...

Lol, stop it. You can't compare injuries like that and you know it.

Back pain can go away with just a few days some rest and a massagem, or it can stay with you for months... Millions of men experience this on a regular basis.

But OK, your dad was more hurt than my dad ;)
 
Noletheking

Noletheking

Hall of Fame
ABCD said:
In an interview to El Confidencial, Rafael Nadal's uncle, Toni, commented on who between Roger Federer and Novak Djokovic was the toughest rival for his nephew. The Spaniard leads the head to head meetings 23-15 over Federer, while he is down 28-25 with Djokovic.

"The most complicated was Djokovic", said Toni. "At least to me. I always felt that, if Djokovic played well, he would have been very tough to beat, more than Federer. He was doing everything well, he was able to attack and defend at a very high level.

He was always very competitive. I wanted the maximum from Rafael." But in 2017, Rafael lost all the four matches against Federer. "For a long time, Federer's game was comfortable to Rafael. But Federer changed tactics.

He turned more aggressive and he made the game being quicker, not allowing Rafa to play his tennis. Rafael needs time to win points. Federer goes at a very high rhythm, accepting that he can make mistakes. But he makes less unforced errors than the rest and so it depends on him."
Click to expand...
Lol as if it was even a doubt ? Fed always had 3rd spot in triple threat rivalry
 
Last edited:
Noletheking

Noletheking

Hall of Fame
Towny said:
This just proves that Tío Toni can count. Of course the guy who has beaten Nadal 28 times is going to have been tougher than the guy who only beat Nadal 15 times. That doesn't mean Djokovic was the better player though. Lendl was tougher for McEnroe than Borg. Doesn't mean he was better. Heck, Sampras probably found Krajicek tougher than Agassi.

It doesn't mean Djokovic isn't better than Federer of course. Just that H2H is just one indication and had to be taken in proper context. But this example doesn't really say anything more than Djokovic has beaten Nadal more often than Federer has.
Click to expand...

This board may not like toni but he has a very high tennis iq and come off as a very intelligent person.
 
Noletheking

Noletheking

Hall of Fame
GabeT said:
Fed beat teenaged Nole 4 times in a row in 2006/7. After that the rivalry was always very close.
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They will never mention it but bring old Fed even though in modern tennis 30 plus player has more chance to win against prime player than a teenager (17-21)
 
HetTheGreaterer

HetTheGreaterer

Banned
GabeT said:
Fed beat teenaged Nole 4 times in a row in 2006/7. After that the rivalry was always very close.
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Nole beat grandpa aged fed a total of 17 times, (13 if we exclude 2011 uso and 2012 beatings).
And successfully managed not to face rejuvenated fed in 2017 AO to 2018 IW period, whereas fed reached him and got beatdowns even in his worst periods (2013, 2018 2nd half)
 
GabeT

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
HetTheGreaterer said:
Nole beat grandpa aged fed a total of 17 times, (13 if we exclude 2011 uso and 2012 beatings).
And successfully managed not to face rejuvenated fed in 2017 AO to 2018 IW period, whereas fed reached him and got beatdowns even in his worst periods (2013, 2018 2nd half)
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They've had lots of back and forths, which is what makes their rivalry so interesting (for me the second greatest rivalry after Nole-Nadal). I believe they are the only two to have beaten each other at all four slams?

But after the initial 4 wins by peak fed against teenaged Nole the results were very close. For example from the 2007 Canada to the 2010 USO both beat the other 6 times. From the 2007 Canada to 2011 IW both beat each other 9 times.

Take out those 4 initial wins and Fed was rarely ahead of Nole in the H2H and was ahead by more than 1 match only briefly during 2010. Like I said, a very close rivalry almost from the start.
 
E

EasyGoing

Professional
GabeT said:
They've had lots of back and forths, which is what makes their rivalry so interesting (for me the second greatest rivalry after Nole-Nadal). I believe they are the only two to have beaten each other at all four slams?

But after the initial 4 wins by peak fed against teenaged Nole the results were very close. For example from the 2007 Canada to the 2010 USO both beat the other 6 times. From the 2007 Canada to 2011 IW both beat each other 9 times.

Take out those 4 initial wins and Fed was rarely ahead of Nole in the H2H and was ahead by more than 1 match only briefly during 2010. Like I said, a very close rivalry almost from the start.
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That’s some creative counting. Fed was ahead 7-2, 9-5 and 13-6 at some point. But of course if we take into serious consideration your creative but also very factual counting of teenage Nole up until mar 2007 and fully grown Nole from aug 2007, it’s very close :)

I am yanking your chain a bit, mate ;) I actually completely agree with you that there is very little between them H2H. I imagine once they are both done it will be very similar with their achievements, and it will come to personal preference who is better.
 
GabeT

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
EasyGoing said:
That’s some creative counting. Fed was ahead 7-2, 9-5 and 13-6 at some point. But of course if we take into serious consideration your creative but also very factual counting of teenage Nole up until mar 2007 and fully grown Nole from aug 2007, it’s very close :)

I am yanking your chain a bit, mate ;) I actually completely agree with you that there is very little between them H2H. I imagine once they are both done it will be very similar with their achievements, and it will come to personal preference who is better.
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The only reason I was mentioning the first 4 matches is because I was responding to a comment that stated that Nole beat only grandpa Fed. If some argue that Fed's losses to Nole at the end of his career shouldn't be considered one can also argue we should exclude Nole's early losses.

In the end the main point is that they have had a very close rivalry from the beginning.
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
All the courts have been slowed down considerably in favors of Nole.

When the court plays with a slight noticeable speed, Federer owns Nole(see Cincinnati & Dubai).

Unfortunately, tournaments on the tour are made up almost entirely slow courts which benefit Nole's playing style.
 
HetTheGreaterer

HetTheGreaterer

Banned
GabeT said:
They've had lots of back and forths, which is what makes their rivalry so interesting (for me the second greatest rivalry after Nole-Nadal). I believe they are the only two to have beaten each other at all four slams?

But after the initial 4 wins by peak fed against teenaged Nole the results were very close. For example from the 2007 Canada to the 2010 USO both beat the other 6 times. From the 2007 Canada to 2011 IW both beat each other 9 times.

Take out those 4 initial wins and Fed was rarely ahead of Nole in the H2H and was ahead by more than 1 match only briefly during 2010. Like I said, a very close rivalry almost from the start.
Click to expand...
If you exclude 1st 4 matches, I'd like to exclude 13 djok wins which came after 2012
 
Lew II

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic-Federer rivalry, wins over the other when ranked (excluding themselves from the ranking):

no.1: 9-6
top-2: 22-16
top-3: 23-18
top-4: 23-18
top-5: 24-18
top-6: 25-18
top-7: 26-18
top-8: 26-18
top-9: 26-18
top-10: 26-18
 
GabeT

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
HetTheGreaterer said:
If you exclude 1st 4 matches, I'd like to exclude 13 djok wins which came after 2012
Click to expand...

My point was that their rivalry has been very close almost from the beginning (other than the first 4 matches). If we do as you say, and take away the first four matches and all the matches played after 2012 it further proves my point. They would have played 25 matches and Nole would be ahead 13-12.
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
GabeT said:
My point was that their rivalry has been very close almost from the beginning (other than the first 4 matches). If we do as you say, and take away the first four matches and all the matches played after 2012 it further proves my point. They would have played 25 matches and Nole would be ahead 13-12.
Click to expand...

You miss the essence of the matter while trying to do your calculation gymnastics: the rivalry has been very close despite of it being for a very small number of matches in Federer's peak, and huge number in Djokovic's peak and beyond.

It is even more bizarre then, that you engage in the said gymnastics, generously "agreeing" to cut the bulk of the said matches in Federer's peak 2/3rds to be precise, where the advantage of Federer was overwhelming, in order to showcase the closeness (because in reality Novak failed to show such domination in his peak, where the overall advantage for him was 16-9).

Here is the post that breaks it down in periods:

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/feds-record-in-finals.641009/page-2#post-13259776

:cool:
 
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