Djokovic officially top 3 now on all three surfaces in open era

[Hitman]

With his incredible win at RG, he leapfrogs Lendl, Wilander and Kuerten into the third spot.

Clay - Nadal, Borg, Djokovic,
Hard - Djokovic, Federer, Sampras
Grass - Federer, Sampras, Djokovic

Djokovic with 2 Monte Carlo, 3 Madrid, 6 Rome and 3 Roland Garros in the time that we saw the greatest single surface dominance of all time by Nadal carries immense weight.

 

[MichaelNadal]

He better slay

 

[xFedal]

He better slay

He did!! Now it’s about raising the bar so high that Carlos and the future ATGs can’t reach it!

 

[NoleFam]

With his incredible win at RG, he leapfrogs Lendl, Wilander and Kuerten into the third spot.

Clay - Nadal, Borg, Djokovic,
Hard - Djokovic, Federer, Sampras
Grass - Federer, Sampras, Djokovic

Djokovic with 2 Monte Carlo, 3 Madrid, 6 Rome and 3 Roland Garros in the time that we saw the greatest single surface dominance of all time by Nadal carries immense weight.

I still had Lendl at #3 after RG #2, but after this you have to kind of give it to Nole. I give it to him because he did it in the era of Rafa, and because of more deep runs at RG compared to Lendl.

 

[NatF]

"Officially" lol

 

[Steffi-forever]

With his incredible win at RG, he leapfrogs Lendl, Wilander and Kuerten into the third spot.

Clay - Nadal, Borg, Djokovic,
Hard - Djokovic, Federer, Sampras
Grass - Federer, Sampras, Djokovic

Djokovic with 2 Monte Carlo, 3 Madrid, 6 Rome and 3 Roland Garros in the time that we saw the greatest single surface dominance of all time by Nadal carries immense weight.

Also he is at 92 match wins at Roland Garros, second only behind Nadal. Incredible!

 

[Djokovic2011]

I still had Lendl at #3 after RG #2, but after this you have to kind of give it to Nole. I give it to him because he did it in the era of Rafa, and because of more deep runs at RG compared to Lendl.

You just know that abmk will still have Lendl, Wilander and Kuerten above him.

---

 

[Technology Ruined Tennis]

Fed remains the undisputed Carpet and Blue Clay champ of the Big 3.

 

[NoleFam]

You just know that abmk will still have Lendl, Wilander and Kuerten above him.

---

The more things change, the more they stay the same...lol

 

[StrongRule]

So this tournament was played during Nadal's dominance? I had the impression he beat Ruud.

 

[StrongRule]

You just know that abmk will still have Lendl, Wilander and Kuerten above him.

---

Winning a tournament with Ruud as the main competition definitely doesn't prove anything. Last year he lost to Nadal who was one step away from retirement.

 

[One]

Both Wilander and Kuerten have less clay titles than Novak. So they are out of the question. Lendl has more, but Novak have had much more RG success. He is 3rd best on clay, and if it wasnt for Rafa, he probably would have been above Borg.

 

[StrongRule]

I still had Lendl at #3 after RG #2, but after this you have to kind of give it to Nole. I give it to him because he did it in the era of Rafa, and because of more deep runs at RG compared to Lendl.

2023 is the era of Nadal? You really have no shame?

 

[ND-13]

I don’t have any problem in recognizing Novak’s clay achievements but let us not say Novak won during Rafa’s presence .

2016 and 2023 RG had 0 to do with Rafa

 

[I Am Finnish]

He better slay

Oh

 

[Djokovic2011]

Winning a tournament with Ruud as the main competition definitely doesn't prove anything. Last year he lost to Nadal who was one step away from retirement.

Other than the beginning of the 2nd set Ruud actually played really well today, I don't care what anyone says. You're also forgetting the small matter of having to get past the world number 1 in the semis.

 

[HashDump]

With his incredible win at RG, he leapfrogs Lendl, Wilander and Kuerten into the third spot.

Clay - Nadal, Borg, Djokovic,
Hard - Djokovic, Federer, Sampras
Grass - Federer, Sampras, Djokovic

Djokovic with 2 Monte Carlo, 3 Madrid, 6 Rome and 3 Roland Garros in the time that we saw the greatest single surface dominance of all time by Nadal carries immense weight.

If Djokovic wins one more Wimbledon do you see him as the best in 2/3 surfaces in the OE?

 

[Hitman]

I still had Lendl at #3 after RG #2, but after this you have to kind of give it to Nole. I give it to him because he did it in the era of Rafa, and because of more deep runs at RG compared to Lendl.

He's got it now.

Second most wins at RG, 7 finals overall. Multiple titles are all the big events, can't put Lendl over him now.

 

[fishpiefriday]

Shame he didn't have to face Nadal in this tournament.

 

[Hitman]

So this tournament was played during Nadal's dominance? I had the impression he beat Ruud.

The era of Nadal, Nadal isn't officially retired. Just like Nadal got 2 AO on Djokovic's watch.

 

[NoleFam]

2023 is the era of Nadal? You really have no shame?

I'm talking about all his clay achievements not just his last RG, obviously.

 

[Hitman]

Shame he didn't have to face Nadal in this tournament.

He's faced him 10 times, and only guy to beat him twice, including once on his way to the title. He's paid his dues.

 

[Razer]

I still like Kuerten as 3rd best though.

There is a lot of class in Kuerten's game

Plus I think Kuerten could have had 4-5 french opens if not for injury, he schooled Federer in 2004 like Djokovic schooled Alcaraz in 2023.

So I will still keep Kuerten as 3rd maybe ?

 

[fishpiefriday]

He's faced him 10 times, and only guy to beat him twice, including once on his way to the title. He's paid his dues.

That asterisk will always be there though, if we use the same logic that was applied to Nadal last January.

 

[NoleFam]

He's got it now.

Second most wins at RG, 7 finals overall. Multiple titles are all the big events, can't put Lendl over him now.

Yea considering Lendl played RG 15 times and only made the SF or better 5 times, Djokovic pretty much takes it considering he did it like 12 out of 19 times. Djokovic needed #3 to be over Lendl considering Lendl's stats on clay but now he has it.

 

[Hitman]

That asterisk will always be there though, if we use the same logic that was applied to Nadal last January.

Nope. Injures are part of sport, and will always remain a part of it....and besides, if he did play and Djokovic did win again, we'll hear how Nadal was a cripple....so the win gets devalued anyway.

 

[xFedal]

I still like Kuerten as 3rd best though.

There is a lot of class in Kuerten's game

Plus I think Kuerten could have had 4-5 french opens if not for injury, he schooled Federer in 2004 like Djokovic schooled Alcaraz in 2023.

So I will still keep Kuerten as 3rd maybe ?

Na unacceptable!! NOLE 3rd on clay now, 6 Rome titles that fat man.

 

[helterskelter]

"Officially" lol

That is a pretty grandiose word to include in the thread title, @Hitman, in all honesty.

 

[Razer]

That asterisk will always be there though, if we use the same logic that was applied to Nadal last January.

You have no logic.

 

[Djokovic2011]

That asterisk will always be there though, if we use the same logic that was applied to Nadal last January.

Injuries are part of the game, deportations aren't.

 

[Sampras-Bruguera 1993]

Djoker over Lendl and Kuerten on clay? Thats still a difficult one even with today's win. He would have to win it next year as well for me to put him ahead of both of them

 

[Hitman]

That is a pretty grandiose word to include in the thread title, @Hitman, in all honesty.

I've used a lot more than that, come on now.

Find me a better player on clay in the open era other than Nadal or Borg who has achieved as much on the big stage. I'll wait.

 

[Djokodalerer31]

I still like Kuerten as 3rd best though.

There is a lot of class in Kuerten's game

Plus I think Kuerten could have had 4-5 french opens if not for injury, he schooled Federer in 2004 like Djokovic schooled Alcaraz in 2023.

So I will still keep Kuerten as 3rd maybe ?

Umm...no? why? Have you seen how many tournaments Kuerten did win on clay my dude? How many of them were masters? How many RG finals did he make, RG matches he won? Have you tried then to compare those with Novak's stats and then look yourself in the mirror honestly telling yourself - Kuerten is greater clay courter thna Novak?? Like based on what exactly ,which criteria? Higher peak? Well that's purely hypothetical nonsense, that cannot be tested, it's just a personal impression, while stats are cold facts...so what exactly once again i ask politely does Kuerten have over Novak??...

 

[NoleFam]

I still like Kuerten as 3rd best though.

There is a lot of class in Kuerten's game

Plus I think Kuerten could have had 4-5 french opens if not for injury, he schooled Federer in 2004 like Djokovic schooled Alcaraz in 2023.

So I will still keep Kuerten as 3rd maybe ?

In peak level, Kuerten still has his argument as 3rd overall. I think in overall achievements though he has to be behind Djokovic and Lendl.

 

[Hitman]

Djoker over Lendl and Kuerten on clay? Thats still a difficult one even with today's win

Titles wises and achievement on the biggest stage, he is....if you want to talk subjective peak level performances, that is something different.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Other than the beginning of the 2nd set Ruud actually played really well today, I don't care what anyone says. You're also forgetting the small matter of having to get past walk over the desiccated corpse of the world number 1 in the semis.

 

[Razer]

Na unacceptable!! NOLE 3rd on clay now, 6 Rome titles that fat man.

Comparing different eras is always complicated. Sampras has 14 slams, he could have won 22+ with great age shift and if all courts were homogeneously fast. So how do we compare ?

Goat is a privileged title for best of the era, but that cannot be extended other eras accurately.

I heard somewhere that Thomas Muster won some 15-20 clay titles in 24 months span ...not sure.....need to check....but can we say Federer is better than Muster ? ...of course not....Federe is inferior as he has not shown such peak level on clay

Sameway we never know if Novak is better than Kuerten or not, so better not to compare eras I think so

 

[Hitman]

In peak level, Kuerten still has his argument as 3rd overall. I think in overall achievements though he has to be behind Djokovic and Lendl.

This. Peak level is one thing...winning is something completely different.

 

[helterskelter]

I've used a lot more than that, come on now.

Find me a better player on clay in the open era other than Nadal or Borg who has achieved as much on the big stage. I'll wait.

I’m actually sympathetic to the argument - see also the much longer post I just wrote on the thread claiming tennis isn’t clean. But there is nothing official about it. I am sure you’ve used more grandiose language! Don’t doubt you on that one.

 

[NoleFam]

This. Peak level is one thing...winning is something completely different.

Yea I agree.

 

[Hitman]

I’m actually sympathetic to the argument - see also the much longer post I just wrote on the thread claiming tennis isn’t clean. But there is nothing official about it. I am sure you’ve used more grandiose language! Don’t doubt you on that one.

There's nothing official about being GOAT either....

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Both Wilander and Kuerten have less clay titles than Novak. So they are out of the question. Lendl has more, but Novak have had much more RG success. He is 3rd best on clay, and if it wasnt for Rafa, he probably would have been above Borg.

If it wasn’t for Nadal is a hypothetical. Same we can say if Borg didn’t burn out and played 77 FO edition. Both hypotheticals together Borg would still be ahead.

 

[Razer]

In peak level, Kuerten still has his argument as 3rd overall. I think in overall achievements though he has to be behind Djokovic and Lendl.

Who is better on clay ?

Federer or Muster ?

 

[Hitman]

Yea I agree.

If people want to say that there are players who played at higher level on clay, sure, no problem with that argument. I would say Guga has played at a higher level myself also...but ultimately it is about winning matches, winning titles. No way can I put the other three time slam winners over Djokovic now there when he has won the second most matches there, and made an insane amount of semis and finals. Only Borg and Nadal dwarf him in that metric.

 

[NoleFam]

Who is better on clay ?

Federer or Muster ?

In all traditional clay tournaments? Muster but Federer performed better at RG.

 

[NoleFam]

If people want to say that there are players who played at higher level on clay, sure, no problem with that argument. I would say Guga has played at a higher level myself also...but ultimately it is about winning matches, winning titles. No way can I put the other three time slam winners over Djokovic now there when he has won the second most matches there, and made an insane amount of semis and finals. Only Borg and Nadal dwarf him in that metric.

Yea I probably would rate Kuerten still at #3 in peak level but in overall clay career, Djokovic has more accolades.

 

[Steffi-forever]

He's faced him 10 times, and only guy to beat him twice, including once on his way to the title. He's paid his dues.

Djokovic achieved his amazing clay record while dealing with Nadal for a decade and a half. That’s very commendable!

 

[Razer]

In all traditional clay tournaments? Muster but Federer performed better at RG.

How do we know Fed is better at RG ?

Federer got RG as a gift from Soderling

Thomas Muster dominated 1995 clay season like Superman and took his slam

So this if not for Nadal argument is not right ...Federer is not above muster on clay anywhere despite more RG final appearances which are useless

 

[Hitman]

Yea I probably would rate Kuerten still at #3 in peak level but in overall clay career, Djokovic has more accolades.

Exactly, and that is fine. The main point is understanding that the two things are not the same thing.

 

[DSH]

Nadal
Borg
Cochet.