Djokovic or Wawrinka forehand?
- Thread starter zill
- Start date
PMChambers
Hall of Fame
Stan.
zill
Legend
Why
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil
Talk Tennis Guru
Hypothetical peak aggressive Mury has a better forehand than both.
Hypothetical peak aggressive Murray > everyone
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
Stanislas. He can hit through Nadal regularly the other cannot.
Shank Volley
Hall of Fame
Djokovic's is better but I'd take Wawrinka's. The set up and clean smack through the ball looks absolutely brutal in person. The thing of other player's nightmares.
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
As a winning shot: Wawrinka's, obviously. For instance, in the RG15 final, Stan hit 36 fh winners to Novak's 8... True story. Stan's forehand is very underrated, because of his backhand's flair.
But for consistent rallying and, more importantly, return of serve: Djokovic by some distance. A better package, no doubt!
But for consistent rallying and, more importantly, return of serve: Djokovic by some distance. A better package, no doubt!
Al Czervik
Hall of Fame
Djokovic clearly. Backhand is a great debate, though. Two of the best ever.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Wawrinka forehand is second only to Federer in terms of aesthetics. Wawrinka has Fed's grace combined with more raw power. It looks like a punch more than a swing.
But Nole has the perfect forehand.
Fedr?
Fedr
New User
Fedr
PMChambers
Hall of Fame
Stan forehand is more powerful and generally better rally ball.
Stan biggest issues are serve and return. His serve is ok but it's an arm serve, more brute power than consistent fluid motion.
His return is heavily hampered by his need to change grips so he can only topspin return one side and slice / bunt the other This means the server gets a weak mid court return too often. Federer has similar issue but he's better returner and only Nadsl and Djokovic seem to be able to exploit it His serve is stronger as well so less pressure to break and his movement is better.
So with all these issues Stan manages to win because his Backhand and forehand are strong Although Stan's BH gets talked about a lot his FH is still stronger and more consistent which is why he still has a lot of BH you BH rallys with his praised BH.
Djokovic FH improved a lot over time, it was flaky early in his career especially under pressure and was the go to side for his opposition under preddure. It's gotten better and doesn't break as much, still quite loopy and not as forceful as Stan {or the other Big 3}. It's great for return he gets lots of brush and his BH is great.
In a neutral ball Stan's FH is better His BH on slower surfaces is better but his return of serve is no where near as good and his serve is not as good. His return takes a lot of pressure off top players as they can go for the open grip side and won't be hurt and more likely get mid court no pace or kick return.
It's always hard to judge a single shot as they come as a package. For example would Federer FH be as good if he had Nadal serve? Probably not as he won't get enough free points to tee off he'd have to play it much more conservative. If Stan had better movement and could stand back further and play his power returns he'd do a lot better. He's just not starting with big enough advantage on serve and neutral on return
Stan biggest issues are serve and return. His serve is ok but it's an arm serve, more brute power than consistent fluid motion.
His return is heavily hampered by his need to change grips so he can only topspin return one side and slice / bunt the other This means the server gets a weak mid court return too often. Federer has similar issue but he's better returner and only Nadsl and Djokovic seem to be able to exploit it His serve is stronger as well so less pressure to break and his movement is better.
So with all these issues Stan manages to win because his Backhand and forehand are strong Although Stan's BH gets talked about a lot his FH is still stronger and more consistent which is why he still has a lot of BH you BH rallys with his praised BH.
Djokovic FH improved a lot over time, it was flaky early in his career especially under pressure and was the go to side for his opposition under preddure. It's gotten better and doesn't break as much, still quite loopy and not as forceful as Stan {or the other Big 3}. It's great for return he gets lots of brush and his BH is great.
In a neutral ball Stan's FH is better His BH on slower surfaces is better but his return of serve is no where near as good and his serve is not as good. His return takes a lot of pressure off top players as they can go for the open grip side and won't be hurt and more likely get mid court no pace or kick return.
It's always hard to judge a single shot as they come as a package. For example would Federer FH be as good if he had Nadal serve? Probably not as he won't get enough free points to tee off he'd have to play it much more conservative. If Stan had better movement and could stand back further and play his power returns he'd do a lot better. He's just not starting with big enough advantage on serve and neutral on return
D
Deleted member 756486
Guest
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
This.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic FH just won him Wimbledon. That and his serve was his stand out shots in the tournament. Could Wawrinka do something like that?
His FH is good for slower surfaces where he can prepare and load much better. Otherwise Djokovics FH is much more versatile. It fits everywhere.
Also not to forget the ROS.
His FH is good for slower surfaces where he can prepare and load much better. Otherwise Djokovics FH is much more versatile. It fits everywhere.
Also not to forget the ROS.
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
Fedr
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
Nadl
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
I'll take Djoko here.
Mythical peak dark sarcasm Murray would have been on 10 winners and 0 errors at that time.
Great shot. Boom.
Mythical peak dark sarcasm Murray would have been on 10 winners and 0 errors at that time.
Great shot. Boom.
Mack-2
Professional
And he wasn’t even at his hypothetical aggressive peak here [emoji33]. MuryGOAT
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Djovc
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
What about Kevn Andr?
Fedr
New User
No, this is Fedr
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
I like Wawrinka's forehand, but Djokovic's is the more consistent one. It's like comparing a Delpo forehand with a Nadal or Federer forehand. Delpo forehand has more fire power than either Nadal or Federer forehand, but that's all it is about. Power. Force him to defend, and it isn't as great. Federer or Nadal can do so much more with their forehands than Delpo can. Likewise, Stan's forehand may be more explosive but Novak's is the much more versatile one. Not to forget, Wawrinka's forehand can leak a lot of unforced errors. Djokovic doesn't make many errors with his forehand. Or backhand for that matter.
HailDjokovic
Semi-Pro
Wawrinka is 3-17 to Nadal in the head to head.... while djokovic 27-25.. I don't see where you're going with this argument, besides purely opinion..
Djokovic has a top 10 forehand all time, I'd take his forehand over Wawrinkas anyday, simply because it is so reliable....
Wawrinka can probably generate more mph, but that really doesn't mean anything... Do you guys remember 2011? Djokovic completely obliterated balls on both wings and decimated the whole tour with his groundstrokes.
Djokovic's forehand compared to Wawrinkas is:
-more consistent
-more solid at all levels of play including defense, offense, passing shots. and the return of serve
-Has more variety in spin and power
-At it's peak, is arguable in power to Wawrinkas easily.
Another thing is people tend to look at the speed and flashiness of the forehand as a determining factor. But, people underestimate how much penetration Novak's forehand and backhand gets. It is impossible to play against someone who places their rally balls at your feet every shot..
This is a practice video showing Novak's peak form before winning RG. The penetration and pop from his groundstrokes are off the charts LOL
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Anyone who thinks Wawa forehand is better than Djokovic's is only looking at a few points or a match.
Incognito
Legend
Top 10?
Fed
Rafa
Agassi
DelHotro
Lendl
Courier
Ferrero
Moyà
Verdasco
Gonzales
- Safin
-Borg
-Blake
captainbryce
Hall of Fame
It is precisely that reason I voted for Stan. Because the question implies them at their “peak”. So if you assume both of them are playing to the best of their ability, then extra firepower of Stan’s forehand makes his better in my opinion.
Another way to ask the question is, if you had to pick a forehand to have as your primary weapon, who’s would you pick, Novak’s or Stan’s. And from that perspective, I think a lot of people would pick Stan’s.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
My argument is exactly as stated. Djokovic doesn't beat Nadal by hitting through him. For the most part he's out-defending him. Stan can also hit through Djokovic with his forehand and has done so on the biggest stages in the world.
zill
Legend
Thing is Novak and Agassi have very similar games but Novak is considered a better player. Both have top backhands. Why isn’t Djokovic’s forehand better than Agassi?
captainbryce
Hall of Fame
I honestly don’t see the logic of your argument. Your answer presumes that the quality of a single shot solely determines who generally wins or loses a match. It ignores all of the other reasons why Federer, Nadal and Djokovic would all have a superior head to head against Stan. But the question isn’t asking about all of those variables, it’s only asking about the single stroke. So it doesn’t make sense to use head to head when determining who has a superior forehand. And I find it really bizarre that you’d include Djokovic in the top ten forehands of all time! Personally, I can think of at least a dozen forehands that I’d pick over his.
1- Federer
2- Del Potro
3- Nadal
4- González
5- Blake
6- Sampras
7- Agassi
8- Lendl
8- Soderling
10- Monfils
11- Kyrgios
12- Verdasco
I put Djokovic in the “honorable mentions” category:
Roddick
Wawrinka
Sock
Ferrero
Djokovic
Courier
Moya
Cilic
Isner
Querrey
TennisCanada1
Professional
What a joke. as usual
zill
Legend
Thing is Novak is at least top 5 greatest of all time. He wins by ground strokes. His best shot is his forehand as he runs around his backhand to hit his forehand often. So how isn’t his forehand one of the greatest? It may not be the best looking shot though.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Novak has 100X better forehand. Stan's forehand is his weakest shot that breaks down under pressure
Jaitock1991
Hall of Fame
This. I think Stan's backhand is quite overrated on a day to day basis, and his forehand is equally underrated. But Djoker's forehand as a total package is clearly better imo.
captainbryce
Hall of Fame
His forehand may be better than his backhand, but the same can be said of 90% of the male players. Most of them have stronger forehands because it’s an easier shot. Only the ones who have terrible forehands have a backhand that might be considered “better”. See Richard Gasquet! Anyways, just because Novak falls into the same category of players who have a better forehand does not put his forehand in the top 5 all time. Novak wins not just by his groundstrokes, but by a combination superior fitness, superior court coverage, superior positioning, superior return of serve, superior backhand, superior mental toughness, superior heart/passion, and an above average serve, above average variety, and above average forehand. So it’s a combination of many factors (which frankly most players don’t have) that enables him to win. It’s NOT because he has a top 5 forehand all time.
TheFifthSet
Legend
That same tournament, Djokovic hit 23 FH winners to Nadal's 3. Does Djokovic have a better fh than Nadal now?
zill
Legend
I said he is top 5 overall of all time. His forehand is his strongest shot so it should be rated quite high. Should be top 10 of all time. Probably closer to 10.
zill
Legend
Djokovic was likely to be spent in the final whereas Stan definitely played his peak tennis that day.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Courier should be in the first list (so should Moya) and having Monfils/Kyrgios in the 1st list is a joke. Their FHs aren't even remotely close to those rankings and certainly worse than that a lot of a lot of players.
I'd put Soderling in honorable mentions as well.
Monfils and Kyrgios over Djokovic?
HailDjokovic
Semi-Pro
Is tennis not about winning? What kind of argument is this?
Having a better stroke or game than someone will allow you to beat them........ That's all there is to it.
Now as for your list... It literally looks like a list of who can hit forehands the fastest..
Some of these players had good forehand runs, but to say they have a better forehand than Djokovic is ridiculous.
Novak would win a forehand to forehand rally most of the times with Verdasco, Monfils, Kyrgios, Soderling, Sampras, and Blake....
With modern forehand form and racquet technology, Djokovic trumps out Agassi and Sampras.
The only players I could definitely say had a scary forehand better than Novak is Fed, Nadal, Del Po, and Gonzalez.
Think about it...... Novak faced against the two greatest forehands ever in Nadal and Fed. AND he has a winning record against them. His game revolves around his baseline game and you're telling me he's not in the top 10? The man even has a winning head to head against Del Potro who once said that Novak's groundstrokes on both wings are extremely lethal.
Yep Nole’s FH was unreal. I particularly enjoyed his young aggressive FH in matches like the 07 Montreal final, 08 AO in general.
And of course 2011 AO, Rome, USO.
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