Djokovic: "The Novak of today is stronger than 10 years ago"

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Likely no chance for Djokovic on the slower plexi surfaces of the earlier 2010s, but in slicker late 2010s/early 2020s conditions which allow him to get more out of his serve and absorb and redirect pace from the baseline he might have opportunities. It’s condition dependent.
Considering he was also carrying an injury, don't think he beats Stan.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
He only lost one set in the whole event this year and it was a very close one. The idea that he would have "no chance" at his turf is ridiculous. And I love Wawrinka but he ain't peak Sampras.
Djokovic was carrying an injury so I can't see how he actually beats in form Stan if he's not even 100%. Him dominating the weak players of today doesn't mean anything.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
And yet his 10 year younger self was capable of doing that against better competition. The best ability is availability and the Joker of 10 years was able to play far more often with greater intensity. He has the luxury of playing less while playing worse players in the biggest events. This Joker probably goes schlemless in 2013.
Exactly. Why exert yourself when you know you're a lock to win multiple majors anyway.

It's why Fed in 2012 had to actually prioritize the smaller events for a change because he was an underdog in every slam.
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Exactly. Why exert yourself when you know you're a lock to win multiple majors anyway.

It's why Fed in 2012 had to actually prioritize the smaller events for a change because he was an underdog in every slam.
Yeah a big part of all this is that Djokovic knows he’s the favorite or at the very least one of the favorites to win each Slam, so he schedules accordingly to save his body for just the Slams.

It’s why he’s played fewer matches overall these days than Federer at the same age. Those 500s and extra Masters that Fed played back then would have been mostly unthinkable for Djokovic today. Only in 2017 and 2018 did Fed really have that feeling, when he skipped the clay season, although IIRC he still played more matches overall than Djokovic has.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Yeah a big part of all this is that Djokovic knows he’s the favorite or at the very least one of the favorites to win each Slam, so he schedules accordingly to save his body for just the Slams.

It’s why he’s played fewer matches overall these days than Federer at the same age. Those 500s and extra Masters that Fed played back then would have been mostly unthinkable for Djokovic today. Only in 2017 and 2018 did Fed really have that feeling, when he skipped the clay season, although IIRC he still played more matches overall than Djokovic has.
Exactly. What Djokovic is doing now is something Fed always tried to do: save himself for the biggest tournaments.

But when you're not guaranteed to win a single one of those big tournaments, then you have to start adjusting.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
If you are fefal fan and can not say the second line everytime praising Nole

Only then you like tennis.

These guys always try to give him half praises. Same opponents when their guys win they celebrate
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Likely no chance for Djokovic on the slower plexi surfaces of the earlier 2010s, but in slicker late 2010s/early 2020s conditions which allow him to get more out of his serve and absorb and redirect pace from the baseline he might have opportunities. It’s condition dependent.
That sounds like something like 13-7 Stan if you just extract 10 matches on each condition.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Better experience does not mean better player. Mentally, you get better perhaps. Physically, no. If it was just about mentally without the physical factor, Jimmy Connors would still be playing professional tennis today.
 

v11

New User
Novak is in his game peak, right now. He is not in his physical peak. It is very hard to choose the winner, 2011, 2015-16, 2023 Novak.

On fast, low bounce HC, where serve, power and precision mean more, I favour "old" 36y Novak. Same on grass. That means cudos to Carlos, as well! Novak lost a mental battle, was too stiff. That was his subpar game this year, and he lost it in the head. Other than that, I am adding WB to courts where 2023 Novak wins. He just has that better serve and volleys now.

Slower, more bouncy HC and clay, young Novak wins. Court coverage, speed and stamina, energy level, all mean more than improvements he made in his game. 2016 Novak has my vote for these courts.
 

Mivic

Hall of Fame
That sounds like something like 13-7 Stan if you just extract 10 matches on each condition.
Hard to put a number on it. Djokovic has obviously declined and I wouldn’t favour him over any of the peaksters of the 2000s or 2010s but I don’t see him rolling over for them either. In fact I’m pretty sure if we lived in an alternative reality where Djokovic was playing these guys in his thirties we’d all be using the ‘old vs young close = young vs young blowout’ logic in Novak’s favour instead of against him and talking about how monstrous his own peak was.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Hard to put a number on it. Djokovic has obviously declined and I wouldn’t favour him over any of the peaksters of the 2000s or 2010s but I don’t see him rolling over for them either. In fact I’m pretty sure if we lived in an alternative reality where Djokovic was playing these guys in his thirties we’d all be using the ‘old vs young close = young vs young blowout’ logic in Novak’s favour instead of against him and talking about how monstrous his own peak was.
Yeah I don't think it would be a complete blowout. But if your in the Djokovic is clearly worse than AO 13/14 crowd then that would probably be a fair score but of course not everybody is.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Which slams does he win then? He is not beating Wawrinka at the AO, he's not beating Nadal at RG, he doesn't survive the Delpo-Murray combo at Wimb and doesn't survive the Stan-Nadal combo at USO either.

Sorry, but you just deciding like you are so sure he will lose doesn't sit right with me as they are new matches and new circumstances. I think Djoko has a good shot and I'm not gonna sit here and say he will win 100%.I just think you are blinded by a certain number next to Djokos age just like many at this place who can't seperate age and gameplay. He is much better than what you give him credit for.
 

NYTennisfan

Professional
He has showed some decline in movement but he's much more of a tactician now than he was then and his net game has improved a lot. Plays a smarter game now to compensate for the decline in physicality.

I've said this many times when others were calling him old and way worse than his peak form. This version of Djokovic could win in any era, not to the level that he won last year but he's still not that far off from peak form which is further evidence that he is, indeed, a cyborg.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
ATP's reaction to this news:

3971525059_b358acdd48_c.jpg
 
Better experience does not mean better player. Mentally, you get better perhaps. Physically, no. If it was just about mentally without the physical factor, Jimmy Connors would still be playing professional tennis today.
Djokovic is the best though physically for his age. I never seen another tennis player still look so powerful at this later age. Hes declined but not to the same to degree to the rest before him.

Fedal started to slow down more and others before them. Father Time gets them all but Djokovic is the best at holding off compared to any tennis player we seen so far. Let’s see how long he can keep it up as things can change fast.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Sorry, but you just deciding like you are so sure he will lose doesn't sit right with me as they are new matches and new circumstances. I think Djoko has a good shot and I'm not gonna sit here and say he will win 100%.I just think you are blinded by a certain number next to Djokos age just like many at this place who can't seperate age and gameplay. He is much better than what you give him credit for.
I'm not saying he's not playing well still, but his competition 10 years ago was just on another level and I genuinely don't see him winning slams.

We've seen it with Federer too when he couldn't win slams despite still playing well.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Reporter: "Wich Novak is stronger, the Novak of today or 10 years ago and who would win this match"?

Djokovic: "10 years ago was 2013 so the Novak of today. 2015 was one of the best years I ever had with 19 finals in a row in all tournaments and winning 3 out of 4 slams. I had quite a great 2015 and half of 2016. I can't play as much as I did 10 years ago, so I have to pick and choose periods of the year where I can perform my best. So it's tough to compare. But someone did ask me the same question not a while ago and the question was framed who would win and I said it would be an easy job for a 36 year old...(laugh) joking of course. I don't know what would be the score. I would give the young myself a hard time that's for sure".

Djokovic did actually seem a bit hesitant despite saying it and quickly mentioned 2015 to half 2016. Fed was way more confident when he said it.
 

daggerman

Hall of Fame
I would disagree I think the way Novak serves, volleys and hits his forehand with more power and aggressiveness would a totally mean he may fare better against Stanimal from 2013 tio 15.

Exactly. One of the reasons Stan fared well against Novak in slams was that Stan returned and defended just well enough to blunt Novak's offense. He didn't fare as well against the other Big 3 members because he couldn't touch Federer's serve, and he couldn't stay in points once Nadal started dictating (and the practice of blocking returns deep was more effective against Novak's first ball forehand than it was against Nadal's). These were not strengths in his game, but they weren't enough of a weakness for that version of Novak to exploit.

This version of Novak could exploit those non-strengths.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Wawrinka RG 15 vs Djokovic RG 23 gets muddier for Djokovic. On HC he always has a chance somewhat even if he is worse form.
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
Djokovic did actually seem a bit hesitant despite saying it and quickly mentioned 2015 to half 2016. Fed was way more confident when he said it.
I don't think it was supposed to be 100% serious reply. He clearly remembers 2013 as a muggy season, a step down from 2011 and 2015/2016, but with that last statement "I would give the young myself a hard time that's for sure", he likely acknowledges all the advantages a younger athlete should have over an older one.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
I don't think it was supposed to be 100% serious reply. He clearly remembers 2013 as a muggy season, a step down from 2011 and 2015/2016, but with that last statement "I would give the young myself a hard time that's for sure", he likely acknowledges all the advantages a younger athlete should have over an older one.
:p

Agree though based on the title of the thread at first glance I was tricked into thinking it would be a little more bold.
 

weakera

Talk Tennis Guru
Well, he knows himself better anyone else does.

That's definitely not true. Djokovic has demonstrated an acute lack of self awareness on many occasions. That's largely seen in his frequently changing persona as well, from goofy dancing clown, to nothing but love boob celebrations, to antagonizing the crowd, etc.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Novak fans, 4-5 days ago: "He is never getting past Medvedev", "No chance of beating this Sinner", "Won't survive Alcaraz"...

Today: "Novak is better than ever"
Hey rafans we are nolefams

We don't beg, we need no jinx, like our fav we go in confidence.

I was rooting for Rune vs sinner since it doesn't matter if sinner tanked that day, he would be a coward. Never beg. Or try to bargain.

Novak is almost as good as his 2015, he himself said it. He said so in 2023 USOpen as well as yesterday. He knows best.
 

junior74

Talk Tennis Guru
Hey rafans we are nolefams

We don't beg, we need no jinx, like our fav we go in confidence.

I was rooting for Rune vs sinner since it doesn't matter if sinner tanked that day, he would be a coward. Never beg. Or try to bargain.

Novak is almost as good as his 2015, he himself said it. He said so in 2023 USOpen as well as yesterday. He knows best.

I am anything but a Rafan :D

I have never seen more reversed jinxing than this year from Nolefam.

Self-assessment is a poor form of knowledge. We never know best.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
I am anything but a Rafan :D

I have never seen more reversed jinxing than this year from Nolefam.

Self-assessment is a poor form of knowledge. We never know best.
It's the attitude and nothing to do with knowledge.

Nolefams are confident. Even if he got out of RR it wouldn't have been because he is old or slow. He played 3 top 10 players in RR and barely lost 1 match in third set TB.
 

junior74

Talk Tennis Guru
It's the attitude and nothing to do with knowledge.

Nolefams are confident. Even if he got out of RR it wouldn't have been because he is old or slow. He played 3 top 10 players in RR and barely lost 1 match in third set TB.

Boring to read lots of defensive posts about how he would lose to Medvedev and Alcaraz. Weird form of confidence.

Of course, most sane people said before WTF started that Novak would win the title.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Boring to read lots of defensive posts about how he would lose to Medvedev and Alcaraz. Weird form of confidence.

Of course, most sane people said before WTF started that Novak would win the title.
There should be in between allowed. Not he will win ATP finals and he is not winning any single slam again, which your mates started saying as well.

If that is boring then this is as well. Most nolefams knew IF Nole played again, he had his chances. Because it wasn't completely on Nole to get to sf.
 

junior74

Talk Tennis Guru
There should be in between allowed. Not he will win ATP finals and he is not winning any single slam again, which your mates started saying as well.

If that is boring then this is as well. Most nolefams knew IF Nole played again, he had his chances. Because it wasn't completely on Nole to get to sf.

It just comes across as very strange to believe he will lose to everyone, which is the vibe I've gotten from his fans this entire season - a year in which he has hardly lost a match :)

I'm not saying you are one of those posters, amigo.
 

Texas Tennis Fan

Professional
Novaks engine is nowhere near what it was 8-12 years ago. luckily he compensates with a bigger forehand and better serve.
He often looks Gassed for no particular reason nowadays.
backhand is worse, volleys meh about the same -he missed some absolute sitters yesterday against sinner. on crucial points too.
And absolutely none of that says whether he is better now or then, just that they are different.
 

paolo2143

Professional
If we're talking specifically about AO 2023 Djokovic who was carrying an injury, he doesn't beat 2013 Stan, period.
I was talking a out way Novak has played throughout most of big events in 2023, however even if we look at his performance from.last 16 onwards in Australia he was hitting his forehand and serve very well and his forehand were way more aggressive than few yrs back.
 

Texas Tennis Fan

Professional
Novak is in his game peak, right now. He is not in his physical peak. It is very hard to choose the winner, 2011, 2015-16, 2023 Novak.

On fast, low bounce HC, where serve, power and precision mean more, I favour "old" 36y Novak. Same on grass. That means cudos to Carlos, as well! Novak lost a mental battle, was too stiff. That was his subpar game this year, and he lost it in the head. Other than that, I am adding WB to courts where 2023 Novak wins. He just has that better serve and volleys now.

Slower, more bouncy HC and clay, young Novak wins. Court coverage, speed and stamina, energy level, all mean more than improvements he made in his game. 2016 Novak has my vote for these courts.
Good analysis.

It is funny how people who don't like him act as if he would hardly win a ATP 500 if this Djokovic was back in 2013. Well Denial is not a river in Egypt.
 
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Milanez82

Hall of Fame
Better experience does not mean better player. Mentally, you get better perhaps. Physically, no. If it was just about mentally without the physical factor, Jimmy Connors would still be playing professional tennis today.
Djokovic was out hitting in the finals one of the hardest hitters in the game. At one point he was hitting forehands on avg 138 km/h. That sure is physical.

Federer Djokovic Wimb 2019 is best example, Djokovic won 3 of last 4 slams going into it, was the best player in the world and yet 38 year old Federer pulled some magic and got to match points.

This example proves that hypotheticals don't work and you can't write off 20 slams winners playing for a slam.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic was out hitting in the finals one of the hardest hitters in the game. At one point he was hitting forehands on avg 138 km/h. That sure is physical.

Federer Djokovic Wimb 2019 is best example, Djokovic won 3 of last 4 slams going into it, was the best player in the world and yet 38 year old Federer pulled some magic and got to match points.

This example proves that hypotheticals don't work and you can't write off 20 slams winners playing for a slam.
Yes

Power

The strong always rules
 
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