Djokovic vs Federer peak for peak at Wimbledon

Who peaked higher at Wimbledon?

  • Total voters
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mike danny said:
The question is why did Fed lose confidence against Djokovic? What made Wimb 2014 so different than all the other previous times he had lost to Novak in slams?

I mean he still had the belief he could beat Djokovic in slams in 2011-2012 even after consecutive slam losses.

Is there anything other than the obvious answer i.e. age?
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Djokovic reached a new peak, the highest level ever seen in tennis.
 
Federer and Del Potro said:
I don't think 2014 was a lack of belief I think Djokovic was just that good. But Fed definitely had chances to beat Djokovic in 2014-2015 and just couldn't find the answers.

That always annoyed me a lot more than the 2019 match, personally.
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But after 2014 he lost confidence.

Could it be that Fed believed he just wasn't as good anymore to beat Novak in slams and lost belief? Because he certainly did not have this mentality even in 2011-2012.

I think Fed realized his drop on level better than everyone, otherwise why woukd just 1 loss kill his confidence?
 
mike danny said:
But after 2014 he lost confidence.

Could it be that Fed believed he just wasn't as good anymore to beat Novak in slams and lost belief? Because he certainly did not have this mentality even in 2011-2012.

I think Fed realized his drop on level better than everyone, otherwise why woukd just 1 loss kill his confidence?
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2014 might have been some loss of confidence, but I also think Fed just got a bit worse after that too.

There's a lot of variables and the variables will be used wherever convenient by the Fed haters or Fed lovers. Whichever suits their agenda better I guess.
 
Federer and Del Potro said:
2014 might have been some loss of confidence, but I also think Fed just got a bit worse after that too.

There's a lot of variables and the variables will be used wherever convenient by the Fed haters or Fed lovers. Whichever suits their agenda better I guess.
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I too think he got worse.

It's not Fed-like to lose confidence against Djokovic. Even at Novak's best, Fed still believed he could beat him.
 
mike danny said:
But after 2014 he lost confidence.

Could it be that Fed believed he just wasn't as good anymore to beat Novak in slams and lost belief? Because he certainly did not have this mentality even in 2011-2012.

I think Fed realized his drop on level better than everyone, otherwise why woukd just 1 loss kill his confidence?
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https://www.**************.org/tenn...-a-better-player-now-than-i-was-a-decade-ago/


Roger Federer: I am a better player now than I was a decade ago
Tennis - Former World No.1 Roger Federer feels that he is a better player now as compared to what he was 10 years ago.

Roger Federer, who recently turned 34 is bracing himself for the Cincinnati challenge said that he feels he is a better player now as compared to what he was in 2005. Just to remind everyone, a decade ago Federer finished the season with an astounding 81-4 win-loss record.

He had won 11 ATP Tour titles including winning Wimbledon and US Open along with 4 ATP Masters 1000 crowns. Though on paper, the records might not be as impressive as they were, Federer’s game has developed over years.

“I think I'm a better player now than when I was at 24 because I've practised for another 10 years and I've got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “I might not have the confidence I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it's ever been, I volley better than I have in the past.”“I think I've had to adapt to a new generation of players again.”
 
DjokoGOAT said:
Wimbledon head to head : 3-1
Wimbledon finals: 3-0 to Djokovic peak for peak.

2015 Federer playing better than ever -
“I think I'm a better player now than when I was at 24 because I've practised for another 10 years and I've got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “I might not have the confidence I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it's ever been, I volley better than I have in the past.”“I think I've had to adapt to a new generation of players again.”
Click to expand...

Better question is who would win on grass Roddick vs. Nole peak for peak.
 
Federer and Del Potro said:
Perfectly said. 100 percent my thoughts exactly. On all counts.

All in all it's been a great rivalry to watch, even if Djokovic has gotten the lions share in the tail end. Plenty of times Fed went full on cheat code vs Djokovic as well.

It's a matchup I've always enjoyed. Easier for me than most Fed fans I guess since I like Djokovic a lot too.
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Agreed. Fantastic rivalry, if a little painful to watch at times! The very very mild animosity between these two has also given it a little spice. Not exactly McEnroe-Connors level stuff but it makes things interesting. And their styles matching up against each other make for some fantastic matches.
mike danny said:
The question is why did Fed lose confidence against Djokovic? What made Wimb 2014 so different than all the other previous times he had lost to Novak in slams?

I mean he still had the belief he could beat Djokovic in slams in 2011-2012 even after consecutive slam losses.

Is there anything other than the obvious answer i.e. age?
Click to expand...
It's more the context of Wimbledon 2014. It had been 2 years since his last time in a slam final. He'd had the awful 2013 and dropped as low as number 8 in the rankings. He spent the first half of 2014 rebuilding with the new racket and Edberg to get back to slam winning standard. And he comes face to face with a guy who he beat at Wimbledon last time they played in a slam 2 years prior. I think Federer likely not only fancied his chances but also felt this might be one of his last chances to get another slam. He was nearly 33 at this point. Yet in spite of Federer having the cleaner run to the final, Djokovic takes it in 5. It doesn't shatter his confidence against Djokovic. In fact, he goes on to win their next 2 matches in straights. But next time he comes up against Djokovic in a slam final, he has less belief and more pressure. And Djokovic has more confidence.

There's also the fact that Wimbledon is basically Federer's home turf. We already saw what happened to his confidence against Nadal after Nadal beat him at Wimbledon. I really doubt he loses Australian Open 2009 if he beats Nadal at Wimbledon 2008.

It's not like I expect Federer would have won all their slam encounters following had he won that one. But I think it was enough to make a significant difference in their future slam matches, which then accumulated over time.

In summary, Federer was older and had been out of legitimate competition for slams for longer. Plus it was at Wimbledon. That's why I think it had a big effect on Federer
 
LOL at Fedfans pretending it's not gonna be close.

Djokovic could have easily straight setted Federer at 2014-15 WB. Sorry Fedfans, your guy ain't Rafael on RG.

2015 Djokovic will have a good chance to win against any Federer. 40% at least.

But I admit 2015 might be the only one to get it done, most others will meet the same fate as 2012. I still take Federer, but it will be a lot,a lot more difficult than people think.
 
mike danny said:
I'm not giving any Nadal a free win over Fed at Wimb.
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By most means I don’t think Nadal is a grass assassin, compared to Fed I think Nadal is about 3rd place in the big 3 for grass performance overall.
 
ForehandCross said:
LOL at Fedfans pretending it's not gonna be close.

Djokovic could have easily straight setted Federer at 2014-15 WB. Sorry Fedfans, your guy ain't Rafael on RG.

2015 Djokovic will have a good chance to win against any Federer. 40% at least.

But I admit 2015 might be the only one to get it done, most others will meet the same fate as 2012. I still take Federer, but it will be a lot,a lot more difficult than people think.
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It would not be easy, but the 2015 match is not an indicator that he would beat better versions of Fed guaranteed.
 
Federer has a better peak than Novak but unfortunately their four matchups have happens just as Federer left his absolute peak and Novak was entering his.

Federer had chances in the two five setters and didnt take them, kills me to say it but its true. 2015 Novak was awesome.

Its a shame in 2017 Novak retired in the Wimbo QF injured, maybe if he was healthy and got past Berdych then Federer could have beaten him in SF and got some confidence back (dont see anyone beating Federer at Wimbo in 2017). But then could also counter that and say in 2018 Fed beats Anderson with MP and then likely beats Isner, Novak could then be 4-0 in finals.

All in all if Fed had met Novak during Feds peak at Wimbo would maybe soften the blow of losing 3 finals, especially 2019 but Novak will forever be 3-0 in Wimbo finals as dont see Fed even making another final let alone winning one against Novak.
 
Federer's level of play peak vs peak is slightly superior to Djokovic's but Djokovic's mental/technical edge in the h2h got him more Wimbledon titles.
 
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The TTWs hypothetical darling will win 10 out 10 matches against his biggest rivals, just don't give him real matches FGS, then it's becoming messy...
 
Federer and Del Potro said:
Perfectly said. 100 percent my thoughts exactly. On all counts.

All in all it's been a great rivalry to watch, even if Djokovic has gotten the lions share in the tail end. Plenty of times Fed went full on cheat code vs Djokovic as well.

It's a matchup I've always enjoyed. Easier for me than most Fed fans I guess since I like Djokovic a lot too.
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Well said .
RG 2011 is such a beautiful match , that if the match entered 5th set , I would rate it the Greatest match of last 20 years ,Personally .
The match had everything in it .

Even though it's a 4 setter , I would still rate it as the most beautiful RG match in last 15 years .
 
pmh1983 said:
Federer has a better peak than Novak but unfortunately their four matchups have happens just as Federer left his absolute peak and Novak was entering his.

Federer had chances in the two five setters and didnt take them, kills me to say it but its true. 2015 Novak was awesome.

Its a shame in 2017 Novak retired in the Wimbo QF injured, maybe if he was healthy and got past Berdych then Federer could have beaten him in SF and got some confidence back (dont see anyone beating Federer at Wimbo in 2017). But then could also counter that and say in 2018 Fed beats Anderson with MP and then likely beats Isner, Novak could then be 4-0 in finals.

All in all if Fed had met Novak during Feds peak at Wimbo would maybe soften the blow of losing 3 finals, especially 2019 but Novak will forever be 3-0 in Wimbo finals as dont see Fed even making another final let alone winning one against Novak.
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If Fed were in good form in 2018, he wouldn't have lost to Novak, IMO.
 
mike danny said:
The question is why did Fed lose confidence against Djokovic? What made Wimb 2014 so different than all the other previous times he had lost to Novak in slams?

I mean he still had the belief he could beat Djokovic in slams in 2011-2012 even after consecutive slam losses.

Is there anything other than the obvious answer i.e. age?
Click to expand...

The answer is Djokovic's " Returning Skills "

Just re-watch final game of 2014 WB Final .
The last game where Fed got broken .
Djoker brought is best Return game after 4 hours . He chased down and returned every serve like a Cheetah .
Few great returns and Fed was 40-15 down Championship points .
- Same thing Novak did to Nadal at WB 2018.

It's not the age but , Returning Skills of Novak that makes him win long 5 setters ,especially if he is serving first .
Fedal will have to beat Novak in 4 sets if they want to win against him at slams ..
In 5th set , there is too much pressure on Fedal to protect their serve games against GOAT returner..

Fedal doesn't have such world class returning skills ,and they have to produce dozens of winners in 5th set to win long epic matches against another ATG ( RG 2013 & AO 2017 ) .
 
maratha_warrior said:
The answer is Djokovic's " Returning Skills "

Just re-watch final game of 2014 WB Final .
The last game where Fed got broken .
Djoker brought is best Return game after 4 hours . He chased down and returned every serve like a Cheetah .
Few great returns and Fed was 40-15 down Championship points .
- Same thing Novak did to Nadal at WB 2018.

It's not the age but , Returning Skills of Novak that makes him win long 5 setters ,especially if he is serving first .

Fedal doesn't have such world class returning skills ,and they have to produce dozens of winners in 5th set to win long epic matches against another ATG ( RG 2013 & AO 2017 ) .
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Novsk had a gteat return in 2011-2012 too and Fed still beat him. So no, it's not that.

It's Fed becoming a much more serve centric player after 2012.
 
mike danny said:
Novsk had a gteat return in 2011-2012 too and Fed still beat him. So no, it's not that.

It's Fed becoming a much more serve centric player after 2012.
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Fedal will have to beat Novak in 4 sets .
In 5th Set , There is too much pressure on Fedal to protect their serve games against GOAT returner..
And they can't return or break Novak's serve as easily as the other way round .
 
maratha_warrior said:
Fedal will have to beat Novak in 4 sets .
In 5th Set , There is too much pressure on Fedal to protect their serve games against GOAT returner..
And they can't return or break Novak's serve as easily as the other way round .
Click to expand...

Also , Novak's Serve has been better after 2014 , thanks to Becker..
 
Of course it's Federer.

A more legitimate question would be peak Fed vs peak PETE at Wimbledon. That's a lot harder to call.
 
The history of the two shows this, albeit non peak/peak. To win a bo5, Federer must do the following:
- Federer must win the first set. Only once did Federer lose the 1st set, and won the match (Dubai).
- Federer must not fall behind at anytime during a match.
- the match must not extend to a 5th set. Historically, Federer has been average in the deciding set, whereas Djokovic has the 2nd best winning %, after Borg.

The talent gap between the two is actually quite small, much smaller that Fedfans are willing to acknowledge. It's too small for Federer to consistently overcome the 3 conditions listed above!

Federer's chances are much better against Djokovic at Queen's than Wimbledon. Because it's bo3, and when the pressure is most intense, Djokovic handles it better.
 
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I think what people fail to consider or are not aware of the fact that Djokovic is almost always his most nervous self when he has played Roger at a Grandslam. Their matches since inception have 90% been very close and pushed to the limit.

I read a lot of comments on how Federer has lost confidence over the years against Djokovic in Slams which is absolutely correct, but his opponent also feels a sense of nervousness like he never felt before. Djokovic has mentioned how he could barely eat anything before the Wimbeldon 2019, a feeling similar to what he had before RG 16. That tells a lot.

Hence a counter argument can be created that Djokovic could have won those matches much more easily had he not been nervous, then again we are all dealing with hypotheticals!
 
Federer is better on grass. But if Djokovic gets it to a 5th set which will be hard to do then Roger is at risk of a loss. Then again Federer did put a masterclass in 2007 vs Nadal in set 5.
 
DjokoGOAT said:


Roger Federer: I am a better player now than I was a decade ago
Tennis - Former World No.1 Roger Federer feels that he is a better player now as compared to what he was 10 years ago.

Roger Federer, who recently turned 34 is bracing himself for the Cincinnati challenge said that he feels he is a better player now as compared to what he was in 2005. Just to remind everyone, a decade ago Federer finished the season with an astounding 81-4 win-loss record.

He had won 11 ATP Tour titles including winning Wimbledon and US Open along with 4 ATP Masters 1000 crowns. Though on paper, the records might not be as impressive as they were, Federer’s game has developed over years.

“I think I'm a better player now than when I was at 24 because I've practised for another 10 years and I've got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “I might not have the confidence I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it's ever been, I volley better than I have in the past.”“I think I've had to adapt to a new generation of players again.”
Click to expand...

a lot of what he says here is true. the thing that's hard to quantify though, and that imo outweighs all these points, is speed. strokes etc might have improved incrementally, but that half/3/4 step lost due to age has massive implications on defense, being better set for groundies etc., and averaged out i think it outweighs whatever technical advantages he might have realized.
 
So I don't offend @Sport, I'll start by saying there is no way to prove this so this is simply my opinion. You stick a peak Djokovic against a peak Federer on grass at Wimbledon ... Djokoic will beat Federer! Simple as that.
 
Sunny Ali said:
So I don't offend @Sport, I"ll start by saying there is no way to prove this so this is simply my opinion. You stick a peak Djokovic against a peak Federer on grass at Wimbledon ... Djokoic will beat Federer! Simple as that.
Click to expand...
No need for hypotheticals, we saw this match in 2015 and 2019.
 
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