Djokovic vs. Murray

380pistol

380pistol

Banned
I don't know if this has been asked before, but when it's allsaid and done who will end up the better player or be regarded higher when their respective careers are done.

Murray is getting all the hype, the talk is about him, and people seem to dislike Djokovic, but really who is better??? Who will be regarded higher??? Now and the future.

Novak has slam, a slam F, a YEC and 4 masters to Murray's slam F and 2 masters. Though Murray leads Roger 5-2, he's never beaten Roger in 3/5 sets like Novak has, and Djokovic did it at slam. So Djokovic has gotten out of the gates faster.

So who... Novak or Andy??? And why.
 
380pistol said:
I don't know if this has been asked before, but when it's allsaid and done who will end up the better player or be regarded higher when their respective careers are done.

Murray is getting all the hype, the talk is about him, and people seem to dislike Djokovic, but really who is better??? Who will be regarded higher??? Now and the future.

Novak has slam, a slam F, a YEC and 4 masters to Murray's slam F and 2 masters. Though Murray leads Roger 5-2, he's never beaten Roger in 3/5 sets like Novak has, and Djokovic did it at slam. So Djokovic has gotten out of the gates faster.

So who... Novak or Andy??? And why.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be facetious here, but, concerning the statement I bolded in your quote, this question would be a lot easier to answer when their careers are actually over.

Right now, however, I definitely consider Djokovic having a better career by far. He's accomplished way more, both qualitatively and quantitatively.
 
oneleggedcardinal said:
I'm not trying to be facetious here, but, concerning the statement I bolded in your quote, this question would be a lot easier to answer when their careers are actually over.

Right now, however, I definitely consider Djokovic having a better career by far. He's accomplished way more, both qualitatively and quantitatively.
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Then there would be virtually no point in discussing it as it would be obvious who had the best career. Forum is designed to discuss things past, present and future!

I think Djoko will have the better career don't know why?
 
Murray's wrist injury in 2007 set him back quite a bit. Didn't Djokovic pwn Murray in the h2h until Toronto this year?
 
SempreSami said:
Murray's wrist injury in 2007 set him back quite a bit. Didn't Djokovic pwn Murray in the h2h until Toronto this year?
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I think that's a good point, Murray and Djokovic were matching each other in the early part of 2007. Murray had that brilliant match with Nadal at the Australian Open and they posted very similar results in the early Masters Series events, then Murray got that wrist injury and didn't really get his fitness and confidence in the wrist back fully untill 2008. If he hadn't of had that nasty injury then who knows, there is a good case that could be made for Murray being the one to of kicked on.

As it stands at the moment it's Djokovic who's had the better career, no doubts about it. Who will have the best results come the end of their careers? Who knows! lol, toss a coin for it really.
 
Their games are very similar, but I really like the grit that Murray's found lately. It seems that the bigger the challenge, the more he steps up. Djokovic, as of late, appears to wither away when things don't go his way.

If this trend continues as their careers develop, I expect Murray to finish ahead of Djokovic.
 
SO FAR in their careers, Novak is ahead...
WHat happens this year or next year, we'll have to wait and see.
I believe Murray has a great chance to end this year ahead of Novak, unless he gets injured...
 
380pistol said:
I don't know if this has been asked before, but when it's allsaid and done who will end up the better player or be regarded higher when their respective careers are done.

Murray is getting all the hype, the talk is about him, and people seem to dislike Djokovic, but really who is better??? Who will be regarded higher??? Now and the future.

Novak has slam, a slam F, a YEC and 4 masters to Murray's slam F and 2 masters. Though Murray leads Roger 5-2, he's never beaten Roger in 3/5 sets like Novak has, and Djokovic did it at slam. So Djokovic has gotten out of the gates faster.

So who... Novak or Andy??? And why.
Click to expand...
It's just a matter of time. I'm sure Murray is gonna do it in a slam too.
 
Interesting topic...
Novak serves bigger and hits harder than Murray.
Murray has more variation, moves better and I believe is fitter than Djoko. Overall I think he's a better strategist too...so I'll go with Murray.
 
Rorschach said:
Interesting topic...
Novak serves bigger and hits harder than Murray.
Murray has more variation, moves better and I believe is fitter than Djoko. Overall I think he's a better strategist too...so I'll go with Murray.
Click to expand...

i agree except i think murrays power has increased quite a great deal off the ground the last 3 months and is equal or above noles.
 
Rorschach said:
Interesting topic...
Novak serves bigger and hits harder than Murray.
Murray has more variation, moves better and I believe is fitter than Djoko. Overall I think he's a better strategist too...so I'll go with Murray.
Click to expand...

Murray serves alot bigger that Djokovic, he has no problems cranking it up towards 140mph. He also won something like 23 out of 25 points when he got the first serve in against Federer on friday. Murray's problem on serve is that his second serve lets him down a bit, he's improving though.
 
Murray is a very capable tennis player, no doubt. He has a very intelligent game and van come up with smart strategies and implement them effectively. But there is a certain amount of hype surrounding him right now. I think his team is responsible for a big part of that also. Look at Djokovic as a comparison. He has been on top for way longer and has had more achievements over all. Now do a google search for these two players. Murray will bring almost one million more results. co.uk extensions have done a very good job. There are pictures of him body building and Olympic style exercises wherever you look.

Back on topic, Murray's defensive style requires lots of court coverage in long rallies. This is not exactly what you need to win slams. Historically, this has been shown to hurt him. Over all, I believe Djok will have more success in years ahead.

Talking about history, who was the last defensive player winning a HC slam event?
 
Neither really blows you off the court the way a vintage Safin would, both volley well, both anticipate well, both have excellent two-handed backhands, both have a good serve (yet not unbreakable), both have a fondness for using the drop shot, and both are good on-court tacticians, as well as excellent movers.

Is that enough?
 
Another thread asking people what will happen in the future. What's the point? Nobody here knows the future. Why? Because soothsayers don't bother with internet forums. They're busy making money in the stock market.

There are more interesting questions to be pondering, even within the realm of tennis.
 
miyagi said:
Then there would be virtually no point in discussing it as it would be obvious who had the best career. Forum is designed to discuss things past, present and future!

I think Djoko will have the better career don't know why?
Click to expand...

Yes, but I can still say that the question is difficult to answer, eh? And, actually, people sometimes discuss who the best players ever are, which definitely include past players whose careers have long been over. I think those discussions are easier (and don't require as much speculation) than a discussion concerning two players who have basically started on the upswing of their careers because at least you have stats and accomplishments.
 
stormholloway said:
Another thread asking people what will happen in the future. What's the point? Nobody here knows the future. Why? Because soothsayers don't bother with internet forums. They're busy making money in the stock market.

There are more interesting questions to be pondering, even within the realm of tennis.
Click to expand...

While we're in the topic of predicting careers, can anyone tell me who will win the Super Bowl a couple of weeks?
 
JeMar said:
Neither really blows you off the court the way a vintage Safin would, both volley well, both anticipate well, both have excellent two-handed backhands, both have a good serve (yet not unbreakable), both have a fondness for using the drop shot, and both are good on-court tacticians, as well as excellent movers.

Is that enough?
Click to expand...

Not at all. Anticipate well, excellent two handed backhand? Don't blow off like safin? There are many players today you can say the same thing about. we are talking about defensive vs non defensive players here.
 
DoubleDeuce said:
If you have a point to make just give it a shot rather than asking stupid questions.
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My point is you must not watch tennis if you don't think Hewitt is a defensive player. Please enlighten us all in why you believe this. The question isn't nearly as dumb as your statement on Hewitt not being a defensive player and Joker/Murray not being similar baseline players.
 
Morrissey said:
My point is you must not watch tennis if you don't think Hewitt is a defensive player. Please enlighten us all in why you believe this. The question isn't nearly as dumb as your statement on Hewitt not being a defensive player and Joker/Murray not being similar baseline players.
Click to expand...

I don't find them similar baseline players. Djokovic has more variety in his shots plus he responds with harder and speedier shots to the corners. Murray on the other hand takes the speed off the ball and throws it back at you. "Pusher" is a word that fits him real well for that very reason even though his fans hate that but it's true. Even Nadal who's considered by many as a defensive player never "push" and slow down the ball. For me it is a big difference in style even though he is also a baseline player.
 
DoubleDeuce said:
Murray is a very capable tennis player, no doubt. He has a very intelligent game and van come up with smart strategies and implement them effectively. But there is a certain amount of hype surrounding him right now. I think his team is responsible for a big part of that also. Look at Djokovic as a comparison. He has been on top for way longer and has had more achievements over all. Now do a google search for these two players. Murray will bring almost one million more results. co.uk extensions have done a very good job. There are pictures of him body building and Olympic style exercises wherever you look.

Back on topic, Murray's defensive style requires lots of court coverage in long rallies. This is not exactly what you need to win slams. Historically, this has been shown to hurt him. Over all, I believe Djok will have more success in years ahead.

Talking about history, who was the last defensive player winning a HC slam event?
Click to expand...

Errr court coverage hurts Nadal and he still wins Grand Slams.
 
I think that you're thinking of a defensive player as a the stereotypical "pusher" at your club/courts that everyone hates to play if you don't see Hewitt as a defensive player by professional standards.

As for Djokovic and Murray not being similar players, please go watch some of their matches and look at their point construction and movement around the court. Yes, you can say a few of those qualities about a lot of players on the pro circuit, but not to the extent that you can say that about these two in particular.
 
I definitely think Murray will have the better career but Djokovic will have a very good career as well. Top 2 players on hardcourts imo but struggles on clay and grass.
 
DoubleDeuce said:
I don't find them similar baseline players. Djokovic has more variety in his shots plus he responds with harder and speedier shots to the corners. Murray on the other hand takes the speed off the ball and throws it back at you. "Pusher" is a word that fits him real well for that very reason even though his fans hate that but it's true. Even Nadal who's considered by many as a defensive player never "push" and slow down the ball. For me it is a big difference in style even though he is also a baseline player.
Click to expand...

OK, you gave me your explanation. Personally, I think Murray uses more of the court, more angle and different speeds than Joker does. Joker likes to drive the ball straight and through the court more than Murray. Murray likes to move the ball around more. They are similar in which they are both baseiners that have strong, consistent backhands, they like to employ dropshots and use the lob. I consider Nadal to be an aggressive, counterpunching baseliner in which he can create his own pace and angles and can control rallies on his terms. Hewitt is mainly a counterpunching, baseliner who keeps the ball in enough to outlast his opponent and thrives on errors because he can't create his own pace and control rallies on his terms. When he was younger and faster he could run all day into winning matches. I do say that he used to make alot of passing shots, he loved having a target. But when he slowed down he no longer could catch up to every shot anymore and he had nothing else in his game to compensate for it, like a big forehand, backhand or even a big serve.
 
SempreSami said:
Errr court coverage hurts Nadal and he still wins Grand Slams.
Click to expand...

I consider Nadal to be a stronger athlete than Murray. Murray cannot grind, he relies more on his game plan and strategy where Nadal is more on grinding and muscular side. Murray is not built for 5 setter matches physically, no matter how much body building he does and that's why he has been practicing serves more than anything else to gain cheap points and save energy.
Too bad Davydenko is out. He could oust him again in a semifinal.
 
DoubleDeuce said:
I don't find them similar baseline players. Djokovic has more variety in his shots plus he responds with harder and speedier shots to the corners. Murray on the other hand takes the speed off the ball and throws it back at you. "Pusher" is a word that fits him real well for that very reason even though his fans hate that but it's true. Even Nadal who's considered by many as a defensive player never "push" and slow down the ball. For me it is a big difference in style even though he is also a baseline player.
Click to expand...

I don't agree that Nadal "never pushes". It is a strategy that he goes too now and then with good results.
 
That was a hell of a lot of winners Murray pushed against A-Rod yesterday DoubleDuece.

I've been lurking on here for a while. DD your constant berating of Murray's game is a daily event.

Methinks thou doth protesteth too much.
 
For the record, Murray ain't no pusher, neither is Nadal. Both guys can crank winners on a regular basis. They're just too smart to go for them all the time, otherwise they would be like Blake and Gulbis and look where they're ranked. Tennis isn't just about killing the ball all the time. Nadal and Murray have point construction and gameplans. Those other guys have no patience and think tennis is a home run derby.
 
Well I see Djokovic more like Lendl and Murray like Wilander. Djokovic has a more effective serve and power, which I think will help him play at his best easier that it will take Murray to play at his.

Ovbiously Djokovic started faster, but he's only one slam ahead and they are both just 21. Murray has been the best player the 4 months or so, but so was Djokovic January to April last year.
For some reason I like Novak.
 
batz said:
That was a hell of a lot of winners Murray pushed against A-Rod yesterday DoubleDuece.

I've been lurking on here for a while. DD your constant berating of Murray's game is a daily event.

Methinks thou doth protesteth too much.
Click to expand...

If you've been lurking enough then must've seen the overrating also. I find him to be a lazy sod and some people share that opinion also.
There are many silly threads started about him after his Ex. win and Doha win and I choose to respond to them. Just responding:)
 
DoubleDeuce said:
If you've been lurking enough then must've seen the overrating also. I find him to be a lazy sod and some people share that opinion also.
There are many silly threads started about him after his Ex. win and Doha win and I choose to respond to them. Just responding:)
Click to expand...

In what way is he 'a lazy sod'. Can you get to number four in the world in your chosen field by being 'a lazy sod'? Lazy in comparison to whom and based on what criteria?

Like I say, you protest way too much. You clearly view him as a real threat -hence the brickbats, and the more you throw, the smellier your fear becomes.
 
Morrissey said:
For the record, Murray ain't no pusher, neither is Nadal. Both guys can crank winners on a regular basis. They're just too smart to go for them all the time, otherwise they would be like Blake and Gulbis and look where they're ranked. Tennis isn't just about killing the ball all the time. Nadal and Murray have point construction and gameplans. Those other guys have no patience and think tennis is a home run derby.
Click to expand...

Murray is probably the most successful pusher of all time. And don't even try to attach him to Nadal because he's not even close. A winner is one shot only but before that there are several pushing shots preceding it. He sits there like an old fox and wait, either for an error or an opportunity for a winner or a strong shot. There is nothing wrong with the strategy, if it works great, good for him. But don't try to present him as anything else.

Like I said his fans hate the word "pusher" and try to whitewash that with this "winner" shots. Note that what we are talking about here is the main game strategy not the type of shots or strong two handed backhand etc...
 
DoubleDeuce said:
Murray is probably the most successful pusher of all time. And don't even try to attach him to Nadal because he's not even close. A winner is one shot only but before that there are several pushing shots preceding it. He sits there like an old fox and wait, either for an error or an opportunity for a winner or a strong shot. There is nothing wrong with the strategy, if it works great, good for him. But don't try to present him as anything else.

Like I said his fans hate the word "pusher" and try to whitewash that with this "winner" shots. Note that what we are talking about here is the main game strategy not the type of shots or strong two handed backhand etc...
Click to expand...

lmao. You must not play tennis in the least. And if you do, you must be a terrible player. I normally don't say stuff like this, but... geez.
 
batz said:
In what way is he 'a lazy sod'. Can you get to number four in the world in your chosen field by being 'a lazy sod'? Lazy in comparison to whom and based on what criteria?

Like I say, you protest way too much. You clearly view him as a real threat -hence the brickbats, and the more you throw, the smellier your fear becomes.
Click to expand...

Haha...my fears? Thanks man you made me laugh, first time today after yesterday's funny threads.

I was referring to his game style, which I find very boring to watch. If you have other views, you can share with others or just enjoy reading " Murray next goat" threats. Not me buddy.
Right now you're the one who's protesting too much. These are my opinions, come up with your own or stfu.
 
JeMar said:
lmao. You must not play tennis in the least. And if you do, you must be a terrible player. I normally don't say stuff like this, but... geez.
Click to expand...

Is that all you have to say Mr. Pro player? Just to ignore the facts? Isn't that what he does? Push and wait for opportunity?
This is typical of the posters who come short of reasoning and then start the personal attacks.

I see where it hurts though. It's just too bad your favorite has to be a pusher :)
 
It isn't called pushing, it's called working a point?

Moving the ball around and waiting for an opportunity to end it when the chance arises is what you SHOULD be doing. Just about any professional player does this to some extent. Those that don't are the ones that end up being career second-rounders.

Murray isn't my favorite player, as I don't find his game aesthetically pleasing. We all know what happens when you assume.

I'm not here to defend any one player in particular, I'm just here to point out ignorant logic like the one you've been spewing for the last two pages and a half.
 
There's a difference between counter-puncher and a "pusher," by the way. There are no pushers in the professional game.
 
JeMar said:
It isn't called pushing, it's called working a point?

Moving the ball around and waiting for an opportunity to end it when the chance arises is what you SHOULD be doing. Just about any professional player does this to some extent. Those that don't are the ones that end up being career second-rounders.

Murray isn't my favorite player, as I don't find his game aesthetically pleasing. We all know what happens when you assume.

I'm not here to defend any one player in particular, I'm just here to point out ignorant logic like the one you've been spewing for the last two pages and a half.
Click to expand...

Then we must have different understandings of what "pushing" means. If you read the previous pages then you must've seen that I wrote "He takes the speed off the ball" This is what makes him a pusher, he throws the ball back at you with no power and it has been likened to junior style playing. Yes, this is his shot making strategy and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, like I said before. It is working for him, and that's great. My whole point was that we are talking about his main strategy to reach to that winner or whatever final shot he makes and for people to say he has such and such number of winners doesnt change the fact how he's making them. Kapish?
 
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