Djokovic vs. Nadal - Paris Masters 2009 Semifinal

Who will win?


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It was always a statistical impossibility (even if Nadal didn't participate and Djokovic won the whole thing) as last year's YEC points drop the same day Paris points are added, so no...

If he defends his London title, then that's a different story.

Nadal has gain points in Paris, also.

Nadal is about 2000 points ahead in the race. So if Djokovic gets 1000 in Paris, and Nadal had his 360 for semis, then Nadal is about 1300 points ahead of Djokovic.

So Djokovic can become No.2 in he wins the whole thing and Nadal loses all matches.

Very unlikely, though.
 
how is he going to win the u.s. open then?...the only good result for him there is a championship

How did he win the olympics and AO? Today it was a case of defeat. It is as though he made up his mind he was going to loose so he didn't bother. Where is the Nadal we know? In the old days he would have gone for every shot.
 
Argh! Woke up it's 10am est and the match is already over. Someone said match is at 2 so I just assumed it was 2pm eastern time. Pissed!!!
 
Nadal is about 2000 points ahead in the race. So if Djokovic gets 1000 in Paris, and Nadal had his 360 for semis, then Nadal is about 1300 points ahead of Djokovic.

So Djokovic can become No.2 in he wins the whole thing and Nadal loses all matches.

Very unlikely, though.

If Nadal makes the semifinals in London, there is no possibility in which Djokovic can become #2 until 2010.

There are also some scenarios that Nadal could still become #1 in London, but it requires Federer to not make it out of the round robin stage and for Nadal to make the final undefeated or win London losing only 1 round robin match (depending on Federer's results)

Also, very unlikely.

It seems that the rankings will stay the way they are.

All that will happen is that the Top 3 will distance themselves from #4... which is good, because the world #4 is a pusher
 
Well, I think he gets harder group @ YEC, with Fed and Davydenko.
I'd be pleased if he reach semis there.

Someone above said that Nadal has to lose all the matches at WTF and Novak has to win the title to finish #2 so definitely a longshot.
 
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He was serving much better yesterday... but Tsonga doesn't return nearly as well as Djokovic... so he may have felt added pressure.
he did serve well yesterday, best i've seen since beginning of the year and last year, but you're right about tsonga vs. novak...one thing i have said for awhile about nadal's serve that i still believe is that nadal should really consider standing farther away for the center service line on the deuce side...obviously it's the toughest serve for lefties out wide on the deuce side so if nadal would give himself a better angle he could rely less on the serve up the middle, it would open up the court...i figure he likes to be close to the center so he can protect against a hard return to his forehand side with his long swing but that's already thinking defensively....one other thing since he's constantly tinkering with the serve, but how about tossing the ball more into the court and throwing his body into it?.....he needs weapons on these hardcourts to compete anymore...i know he's accomplished alot on them but that's the past now (the announcer did say he's gripping the racket with a forehand grip for his serve now, so he's certainly open to change there)
 
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If Nadal makes the semifinals in London, there is no possibility in which Djokovic can become #2 until 2010.

There is also some scenarios that Nadal could still become #1 in London, but it requires Federer to not make it out of the round robin stage and for Nadal to make the final undefeated or win London losing only 1 round robin match (depending on Federer's results)

Also, very unlikely.

It seems that the rankings will stay the way they are.

Yes, most likely everything goes back to normal after various perturbations in 2009.

All that will happen is that the Top 3 will distance themselves from #4... which is good, because the world #4 is a pusher

You mean the real No.1?
 
Someone above said that Nadal has to lose all the matches at WTF and Novak has to win the title to finish #2 so definitely a longshot.

Yes, that has to happen.

But even in that scenario, if Rafa really wants to stay at No.2, he can play in Davis Cup and get 150 points which gets him back to his place.
 
Someone above said that Nadal has to lose all the matches at WTF and Novak has to win the title to finish #2 so definitely a longshot.

I dont mind Nole finishing his ranking on #3 position for this year, its realistic.
Its good chance for Novak to get that #2 in begin of 2010, Nadal defends tons of points at AO and Indian wells. (Later on he might get #1, Fed defends tons of points at AO/RG/Wimbledon too , who knows?)
 
I would rather see: Djokovic twice, Cilic and Del Potro's defeats over Nadal in recent months. That is perfect definition of schooling. :)

How about Nadal schooling your boy with a breadstick in Indian Wells

Your boy's not even going to be Top 4 soon so this conversation isn't worth it
 
Rafa on fast HC is like Nole on grass.. Nole will never win Wimbledon and I don't think Rafa will ever win the USO.
 
I would rather see: Djokovic twice, Cilic and Del Potro's defeats over Nadal in recent months. That is perfect definition of schooling. :)

Spider, your man has been attending school himself lately, so smugness should be shelved for a bit. We await London...
 
I dont mind Nole finishing his ranking on #3 position for this year, its realistic.
Its good chance for Novak to get that #2 in begin of 2010, Nadal defends tons of points at AO and Indian wells. (Later on he might get #1, Fed defends tons of points at AO/RG/Wimbledon too , who knows?)

Djokovic and Nadal as the Top 2 would be very exciting.

Hopefully both of them really improve their FO results. A final between them would be epic.
 
How did he win the olympics and AO? Today it was a case of defeat. It is as though he made up his mind he was going to loose so he didn't bother. Where is the Nadal we know? In the old days he would have gone for every shot.

the quickest, lowest-bouncing hardcourt at flushing (not to mention back to back days for a grinder like nadal)...like i said above the aus and olympics were yesterday....the tour is constantly, speedily, and effectively making adjustments, rafa isn't....let's give novak credit here, i don't think nadal was tanking, he was trying to get himself going emotionally, it was his game that had no answers, nothing to trouble novak
 
Look, this is how it works with Djokovic. Hes great for a few months, then goes subpar.

I would not be surprised to see Djokovic take the WTF, and then go and loose in the QF of the AO to a Roddick or a Tsonga

If Nadal has shown anything since his return from injury, is that you should automatically pencil him into the the QF if not the SF of all tourney's he plays.
 
i predict
2010
AO- del potro. forum hails the rise of the goat and the end of federer
FP- djokovic. forum hails the rise of the goat and the end of nadal
W- federer. forum hails the return of the goat and the end of djokovic/delpotro/roddick/murray/nadal/sampras/borg/all tennis
USO- murray. forum shrugs.
 
I heard Djokovic played really well today. He's also lucky that many players are injured and tired at this time of year during his best part of the year and his best surface. Perhaps a usopen next year for him? He played great there this year. but beating nadal legitimizes his tourney if he wins Paris. It'S ok d of funny how the top 2 players are not so good on fast hardcourts. Nadal had few unforced errors but djoke had 31 winners I think. Well done
 
I dont mind Nole finishing his ranking on #3 position for this year, its realistic.
Its good chance for Novak to get that #2 in begin of 2010, Nadal defends tons of points at AO and Indian wells. (Later on he might get #1, Fed defends tons of points at AO/RG/Wimbledon too , who knows?)

Nole can't lose to the likes of Haas and Kohlschreiber early at the slams if he wants the number 1..
 
I dont mind Nole finishing his ranking on #3 position for this year, its realistic.
Its good chance for Novak to get that #2 in begin of 2010, Nadal defends tons of points at AO and Indian wells. (Later on he might get #1, Fed defends tons of points at AO/RG/Wimbledon too , who knows?)

Yeah,it's OK.Would like to see him reach #2 or even #1 in the near future though.
 
Nole can't lose to the likes of Haas and Kohlschreiber early at the slams if he wants the number 1..

Yeah,it's OK.Would like to see him reach #2 or even #1 in the near future though.

2009 was, maybe, a well-needed lesson for Djokovic and it'll probably be remembered as a slum year when we look back at Djokovic's illustrious career.

I don't agree with what people say about Djokovic at Wimbledon.

I can see him winning it, for sure.
 
If Nadal makes the semifinals in London, there is no possibility in which Djokovic can become #2 until 2010.

There are also some scenarios that Nadal could still become #1 in London, but it requires Federer to not make it out of the round robin stage and for Nadal to make the final undefeated or win London losing only 1 round robin match (depending on Federer's results)

Also, very unlikely.

It seems that the rankings will stay the way they are.

All that will happen is that the Top 3 will distance themselves from #4... which is good, because the world #4 is a pusher

I'm trying my best to like you but you make it so difficult.
Did you like my prediction of Djokovic wiping the floor with Nadal in 2?
 
2009 was, maybe, a well-needed lesson for Djokovic and it'll probably be remembered as a slum year when we look back at Djokovic's illustrious career.

I don't agree with what people say about Djokovic at Wimbledon.

I can see him winning it, for sure.

No way. He is like Seles, he will never win the big W. Losing to washed up has beens like Safin and Haas at W is not a good omen.
 
Yeah I'm so bitter that Murray didn't let Nadal double bagel him in Indian Wells

Haha you really think Nadal can beat Murray like that, again (on any surface let alone hard courts)? The wind was blowing very fast on the court that day and everyone knows that.
 
Well I guess that this match confirms what many of us suspected after yesterday's match: the stars aligned and Nadal pulled out a great performance but the usual level is abysmal,like it has been since after WB. And I have to reiterate once again,it's not that he loses but how he loses. He could have lost yesterday for all I care but at least he played some tennis.

Guys who have great HC games like Fed,Djoker,DelPo and so on would have given in-form Nadal fits,but when Nadal plays like this beatdowns are only normal. Nadal's problem is in his head,not in his muscles or lack of steroids.
There is no way you play like in the tsonga match(or monfils match in USO) one day and play pusher tennis the next. Nadal's biggest problem,besides the whole injury thing,is that,in his absence,the world has passed him by. Watching Nadal in the second part of the year,it's like he is trying to adjust to get back his game but everytime he makes some progress he doesn't follow through. It's almost like one step forwards two steps back.

Beating Djoker on HC was always hard for Nadal but when you stick with one strategy and refuse to change you pay the price. It was 6-2,6-3 and at times it looked like djoker wasn't even trying. High ball the BH and djoker would either punish Nadal's BH(which didn't work like yesterday) or go DTL. Davydenko,DelPo,Cilic did the same thing. Instead of varying a bit like in the tsonga match he barely changed something in the second but it was too late.

My biggest worry is that Nadal might retire soon. Nadal has always said that when he won't have the urge to improve his game further he will retire from the game. Well,a few months have passed and I haven't seen any improvement. I see a lot of ups and downs but no major improvement. Sure,he is making good results if we look at them in a cold manner but his game is missing bigtime.

He has beat just 1 top 10 player after WB and has always been stopped by a member of the top 10 in every one of the tournaments he played in. DelPo in Montreal,Djoker in Cincy,DelPo in USO,Cilic(the exception but top10 potential nonetheless)in Beijing,Davydenko in Shanghai and now Djoker again in Paris. And he didn't even win a set,coming close only 2 times,when he had 5-2 in the tie with DelPo in Montreal and when he had SP against Davy in Shanghai.

Like I said,the world passed him by. He even struggled against lower ranked players,who weren't in great form like Blake(twice),Bahgdatis,Ljubicic,Mathieu and so on. To tell you the truth I wonder what the hell is Tony doing or whether he has an influence over Rafa anymore because his problems are blatantly clear and it seems that no one is working on them. He had a flatter FH in the first rounds of AO. What happened to that? His BH was clicking in the first part of the season. What the hell happened to that? He actually did combos before in the form of hit BH 2-3 times only to move to the FH side to move the other guy around. Where is that? Nowadays he just moonballs to the BH and that's about it. It's a sad sight really.

I am not holding my breath for TMC. Anyone of the guys participating can beat Nadal,steamroll him even,and he might only get one win if he has the headcase verdasco in his group.

He is probably just waiting for the DC final cause he certainly didn't seem to put any effort into today's match.
 
i predict
2010
AO- del potro. forum hails the rise of the goat and the end of federer
FP- djokovic. forum hails the rise of the goat and the end of nadal
W- federer. forum hails the return of the goat and the end of djokovic/delpotro/roddick/murray/nadal/sampras/borg/all tennis
USO- murray. forum shrugs.

The AO courts are not the best for Del Po. They are too low bouncing.

Realisitically thats Djokovic best court. However, Nadal has had the best results on the Plexicushion, Fed will make at the very least the semis.

Right now, the only in form player is Djokovic so its going to be wide open come late January.

Im sorry but i cannot see Djokovic winning the FO as long as Fed and Nadal are around. He is like 1 - 8 against those two in slams.

Wimbledon is also pretty open. Nadal is a former champ, and loves the court. Roddick almost beat Fed, and is a 3 time finalist. Murray is solid on grass and has improved his result at SW19 every year.

USO is between Federer, Djokovic and Del Potro.

Here are my predictions:

AO: Federer def. Djokovic. Nadal looses in semis to Djokovic, Fed beats Del Po in the other semi

FO: Nadal def. Federer. Djoko and Del Po loose in semis.

Wimbledon: Nadal def. Roddick. Nadal takes no1. Federer and Murray loose in semis

USO: Del Potro def. Federer. Djokovic and a rando loose in semis.
 
Nadal was crushed not because he played badly but because Novak just didn't let him play his game and murdered him on the court, is it that difficult to comprehend?
 
wow..namelessone relax..:shock:
Nadal wont retire..
I remember him saying during Shanghai ( I think) that his focus was mainly on next year and even now he seems to be a lot more focused to DC finals than anything else.
 
I don't think Del Potro will win a slam in 2010. I expect a sophomore slump year at the slams for him like Nole in 2009. You think winning slams for consecutive yrs is easy? No way. I expect Fed, Rafa, Nole to win a slam in 2010. And maybe Murray finally wins one as well.
 
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