Djokovic vs. Nadal - Paris Masters 2009 Semifinal

Who will win?

  • Total voters
    41
  • Poll closed .
fps said:
i predict
2010
AO- del potro. forum hails the rise of the goat and the end of federer
FP- djokovic. forum hails the rise of the goat and the end of nadal
W- federer. forum hails the return of the goat and the end of djokovic/delpotro/roddick/murray/nadal/sampras/borg/all tennis
USO- murray. forum shrugs.
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LOL the forum reactions would be so true. LOL at Murray too.:):):)
 
Spider said:
Nadal was crushed not because he played badly but because Novak just didn't let him play his game and murdered him on the court, is it that difficult to comprehend?
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Did you actually watch the match? What game,playing short,high balls to the BH for half of the match? Guys like Djoker,DelPo,Fed,Cilic and so on would be tough for a in-form Nadal to beat,but when he goes out there with no gameplan,of course he is going to get crushed. This was a cruising victory for Djoker,he didn't even break a sweat,just like DelPo/Cilic/Davy did before. Tee off Nadal's shots and you're pretty much set. Tsonga did the same yesterday on quite a few shots,especially on the FH but Nadal bullied his BH a few times only to go to the opposite side of the court and he actually followed through on his attacks a few times. Today he didn't even attack. He waited. And waited. And waited. And before he knew what hit him it was 6-2 for djoker in 30 minutes. Cilic won his first set with Nadal in 15 minutes. That's unbelievably weak from Nadal and it says more about Nadal's form than his opponents. We are not talking about a journeyman,we are talking about a guy who is a multiple GS winner and who was either hanging with or beating the top 10 up until a few months ago. Nowadays he can't even steal a set off them. I'd wait for next year to make any definitive comments about Rafa.
 
mandy01 said:
wow..namelessone relax..:shock:
Nadal wont retire..
I remember him saying during Shanghai ( I think) that his focus was mainly on next year and even now he seems to be a lot more focused to DC finals than anything else.
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"I'm only 23" -nadal

But why does he care more about DC than masters?
 
namelessone said:
Well I guess that this match confirms what many of us suspected after yesterday's match: the stars aligned and Nadal pulled out a great performance but the usual level is abysmal,like it has been since after WB. And I have to reiterate once again,it's not that he loses but how he loses. He could have lost yesterday for all I care but at least he played some tennis.

Guys who have great HC games like Fed,Djoker,DelPo and so on would have given in-form Nadal fits,but when Nadal plays like this beatdowns are only normal. Nadal's problem is in his head,not in his muscles or lack of steroids.
There is no way you play like in the tsonga match(or monfils match in USO) one day and play pusher tennis the next. Nadal's biggest problem,besides the whole injury thing,is that,in his absence,the world has passed him by. Watching Nadal in the second part of the year,it's like he is trying to adjust to get back his game but everytime he makes some progress he doesn't follow through. It's almost like one step forwards two steps back.

Beating Djoker on HC was always hard for Nadal but when you stick with one strategy and refuse to change you pay the price. It was 6-2,6-3 and at times it looked like djoker wasn't even trying. High ball the BH and djoker would either punish Nadal's BH(which didn't work like yesterday) or go DTL. Davydenko,DelPo,Cilic did the same thing. Instead of varying a bit like in the tsonga match he barely changed something in the second but it was too late.

My biggest worry is that Nadal might retire soon. Nadal has always said that when he won't have the urge to improve his game further he will retire from the game. Well,a few months have passed and I haven't seen any improvement. I see a lot of ups and downs but no major improvement. Sure,he is making good results if we look at them in a cold manner but his game is missing bigtime.

He has beat just 1 top 10 player after WB and has always been stopped by a member of the top 10 in every one of the tournaments he played in. DelPo in Montreal,Djoker in Cincy,DelPo in USO,Cilic(the exception but top10 potential nonetheless)in Beijing,Davydenko in Shanghai and now Djoker again in Paris. And he didn't even win a set,coming close only 2 times,when he had 5-2 in the tie with DelPo in Montreal and when he had SP against Davy in Shanghai.

Like I said,the world passed him by. He even struggled against lower ranked players,who weren't in great form like Blake(twice),Bahgdatis,Ljubicic,Mathieu and so on. To tell you the truth I wonder what the hell is Tony doing or whether he has an influence over Rafa anymore because his problems are blatantly clear and it seems that no one is working on them. He had a flatter FH in the first rounds of AO. What happened to that? His BH was clicking in the first part of the season. What the hell happened to that? He actually did combos before in the form of hit BH 2-3 times only to move to the FH side to move the other guy around. Where is that? Nowadays he just moonballs to the BH and that's about it. It's a sad sight really.

I am not holding my breath for TMC. Anyone of the guys participating can beat Nadal,steamroll him even,and he might only get one win if he has the headcase verdasco in his group.

He is probably just waiting for the DC final cause he certainly didn't seem to put any effort into today's match.
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I have to agree. Just what is uncle Toni up to.> So many players have changed their coaches for the good and I think now is the time for Rafa to have some new blood in that field. Today was a great surprise and I hated his body language. It was as though he was giving up which isn't the Nadal we know
 
Namelessone:

Rafa's only goal for this yr is the DC. If you are expecting him to win titles on fast HC, you haven't followed his career all these years... :rolleyes:
 
If I were Nadal, I'd play Davis Cup and then after that I'd drop out of Doha and play some other minor 250 before Australia where he's almost guaranteed to win it.

He needs more confidence!

Players who win Davis Cup, historically, have great starts to their next season.

Verdasco is a great example of this, as is Nadal in 2005.

He needs to go back to his roots. People forget the Davis Cup was a major breakthrough for Rafa.
 
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namelessone said:
Did you actually watch the match? What game,playing short,high balls to the BH for half of the match? Guys like Djoker,DelPo,Fed,Cilic and so on would be tough for a in-form Nadal to beat,but when he goes out there with no gameplan,of course he is going to get crushed. This was a cruising victory for Djoker,he didn't even break a sweat,just like DelPo/Cilic/Davy did before. Tee off Nadal's shots and you're pretty much set. Tsonga did the same yesterday on quite a few shots,especially on the FH but Nadal bullied his BH a few times only to go to the opposite side of the court and he actually followed through on his attacks a few times. Today he didn't even attack. He waited. And waited. And waited. And before he knew what hit him it was 6-2 for djoker in 30 minutes. Cilic won his first set with Nadal in 15 minutes. That's unbelievably weak from Nadal and it says more about Nadal's form than his opponents. We are not talking about a journeyman,we are talking about a guy who is a multiple GS winner and who was either hanging with or beating the top 10 up until a few months ago. Nowadays he can't even steal a set off them. I'd wait for next year to make any definitive comments about Rafa.
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You are reacting like Nadal was some exceptional player on fast courts. Fact is he never was and never will. He is a decent player on them, nothing more.

His shorts always land short on these courts and sits quite nicely for players who have the ability to take the ball on the rise.
 
I just can't believe some so called Rafa fans are disappointed with him not winning titles on these fast HC. You don't see the Murray fans complaining when he doesn't win titles on clay :rolleyes:
 
I and Cyan have disagreed in the past but he is making too much sense in this thread for blind Nadal fans to comprehend. I agree with you Cyan. :)
 
Cyan said:
I just can't believe some so called Rafa fans are disappointed with him not winning titles on these fast HC. You don't see the Murray fans complaining when he doesn't win titles on clay :rolleyes:
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Poor Rafa....his opponents always get lucky....
 
Well, we'll just give that one to Novak shall we :0) He sure as deserves it, great play from him today!
 
Cyan said:
I just can't believe some so called Rafa fans are disappointed with him not winning titles on these fast HC. You don't see the Murray fans complaining when he doesn't win titles on clay :rolleyes:
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It's just a shame that he didn't play like he did against Tsonga.

I agree, though, it's a bit ridiculous to have the same expectations for Nadal in the latter half of the season as you would for him in the clay and grass season.

Everything from Cincinnati onwards have been excellent results for Rafa, even in a prime year. As long as he's playing well and he's healthy, it's all good.
 
Mun said:
Always a pleasure to watch a match between the two best players in the world. Fed fans should root for Nadal...if Novak wins Fed will be no.3 in a few months. Nadal is already a lock at no.1 after Wimbledon.
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Why aren't you banned yet?
 
I missed it....

6-2, 6-3 Djokovic??

Was the match that easy for him...????

or does the score not give justice to the match?

I knew Djoker would win but not that easy!!
 
Cyan said:
Namelessone:

Rafa's only goal for this yr is the DC. If you are expecting him to win titles on fast HC, you haven't followed his career all these years... :rolleyes:
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I don't expect him to win,I expect him to play tennis. I saw more tennis from Nadal in beatdowns from the past than from what he has been up to in this summer. Oddly enough Nadal has made semi's in every tournament he has participated in outside of Montreal but in 6 major tournaments he had only 3 vintage Rafa matches(berdych match,monfils in USO and yesterday with tsonga) and couldn't take a set off any top 10 player he met,except tsonga.

Nadal's game is my problem. This was the PERFECT time for him to be experimenting and yet he played it safe. Who is gonna have expectations for him on fast HC and after injuries,right? The only thing that has kept Rafa in contention in all these tournaments(enough to make semi's in almost all of them) is his will to hold on,but that has to be backed up by a gameplan and by good shotmaking,two things Nadal lacks right now because he can't seem to keep focused. Like I said,he has had problems with the likes of mathieu,blake twice,ljubicic,almagro,robredo not just with the top10,who seems like an unsurmountable wall for him right now. A guy with Nadal's game right now but with less mental power would have been ousted in the early rounds in every tournament he entered. Nadal,with this crappy game,made freaking semi's based on his will alone,which works fine against lower grade opponents but you actuall need game for the big boys. For the last months,Nadal's game has been mediocre and he hasn't made any efforts to improve it. That's what's bothering me.

Is he seriously expecting a DC win to make it all better? Nadal needs to close the gap between him and the top10 and he can only do that by beating some of them. So far he has failed and I don't expect that to change at TMC.
 
Blinkism said:
It was a sublime performance from Djokovic

He could do no wrong and there was nothing Nadal could do

He tried hitting to Djokovic's FH and Djokovic creamed those shots

Nadal was lucky not to be bageled or breadsticked

Good luck to Nole in the final, he deserves this fully and he is the best player in the world right now- based on recent form

A favorite for London, too
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Best player in the world right now? That's a bit too much don't you think? He hasn't even reached a slam final this year nor won a MS title this year. His form in Basel wasn't that strong, it was a very low quality final with Djokovic playing a bit better than Federer (both sucked). That's like saying Del Potro was the best player in the world after he beat Nadal and Fed back to back at the USO (and now look where he is).

Djokovic is where he should be - #3. I would bet on a decent form Federer over Djokovic on hard courts. Djokovic may be 3-2 vs. Fed this year, but Fed won the important matches (a GS semi and a MS final).
 
Nadal struggles on fast HC due to his extreme grip, he often drops the ball too short, which allows his opponents to attack him at their will. The slower and higher bouncing HC give Rafa more time to set up his shots and counterpunch and go on the offensive.
 
Cyan said:
I just can't believe some so called Rafa fans are disappointed with him not winning titles on these fast HC. You don't see the Murray fans complaining when he doesn't win titles on clay :rolleyes:
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Quite true. However we know Nadal is capable of progressing and he has shown this so much last year. It is from this point of view that I feel depressed about his, not so much loss but that it was quite a loss. Nadal has always been a great fighter and somehow he just didn't show itself today.
 
P_Agony said:
Best player in the world right now? That's a bit too much don't you think? He hasn't even reached a slam final this year nor won a MS title this year. His form in Basel wasn't that strong, it was a very low quality final with Djokovic playing a bit better than Federer (both sucked). That's like saying Del Potro was the best player in the world after he beat Nadal and Fed back to back at the USO (and now look where he is).

Djokovic is where he should be - #3.
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By right now, I mean recently. I'm not implying somehow that he magically overtook Federer and Nadal in the 2009 season, but he is the better player this fall. The fact that he's beaten both those players affirms that fact.

Obviously not the best player in the entire season, but this fall he's been the most consistent and he would deserve to finish off the regular fall season with a Master's title.

Since Beijing he's been rock solid.
 
^^ One off case, next time they meet anywhere away from Clay, Murray should be able to beat him (or lose with an absolute fight).
 
Well, after some years in this forum to me it is clear that if Nadal is to regain his form he must:

1) Go train in Vegas with Gil Reyes.
2) Hire Brad Gilbert as a coach.
3) Switch to a larger frame.
4) Get himself a hotter girlfriend (although I don't know how is he going to achieve that, I find Xisca smoking hot).

As some have said, Nads is in a shaky phase. Sometimes he shows glimpses of his AO'09 form, sometimes nothing clicks and he is annoyingly passive and obstinate. It happens to Fed sometimes too, and it is infuriating because we know they can do so much better.

We'll see, a few months slump is quite common in top tennis, but we can never have too many competitive and spectacular players, hope he regains some of his mojo as Fed did this Spring.

Re: Djokovic. Wowzers! More of this, please! Rock solid from both wings, still the best BHDTL in the game, a clinic on inside-out forehands (hello, Nads, pull out your block and take some notes, you used to do that too!)
 
Blinkism said:
By right now, I mean recently. I'm not implying somehow that he magically overtook Federer and Nadal in the 2009 season, but he is the better player this fall. The fact that he's beaten both those players affirms that fact.

Obviously not the best player in the entire season, but this fall he's been the most consistent and he would deserve to finish off the regular fall season with a Master's title.

Since Beijing he's been rock solid.
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Huh? But if we are looking since the HC season started, Federer was the one who dominated Djoko for the most part (2 important wins vs. 1 semi-important win). I think Federer was more consistent - winning Cincy, reaching USO final, reaching Basel final. His only odd result was in Paris.

I wouldn't say Djoko has been rock solid. He faced 3 match points vs. Stepanek, he was crappy against Federer in the Basel final (the former being crappier), and he was downright pathetic against Soderling in the 2nd set in Paris. He won all those matches, but he was far from winning them in convincing fashion. Far.
 
Blinkism said:
By right now, I mean recently. I'm not implying somehow that he magically overtook Federer and Nadal in the 2009 season, but he is the better player this fall. The fact that he's beaten both those players affirms that fact.

Obviously not the best player in the entire season, but this fall he's been the most consistent and he would deserve to finish off the regular fall season with a Master's title.

Since Beijing he's been rock solid.
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Well we have seen the top three go in and out of the shadows in the last couple of years. However they stay up there which is a lot more than some of the one day wonders who beat them occassionaly
 
P_Agony said:
Huh? But if we are looking since the HC season started, Federer was the one who dominated Djoko for the most part (2 important wins vs. 1 semi-important win). I think Federer was more consistent - winning Cincy, reaching USO final, reaching Basel final. His only odd result was in Paris.

I wouldn't say Djoko has been rock solid. He faced 3 match points vs. Stepanek, he was crappy against Federer in the Basel final (the former being crappier), and he was downright pathetic against Soderling in the 2nd set in Paris. He won all those matches, but he was far from winning them in convincing fashion. Far.
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So, who in your opinion has done better than Djokovic in the fall season?
 
Blinkism said:
This is speculation

6 slams and 2 finals speak for themselves
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Nadal is an early bloomer like Hewitt (but much better at it). Therefore their head to head is also misleading as most of his wins came when Murray was just a little kid (away from clay).
 
Spider said:
Nadal is an early bloomer like Hewitt (but much better at it). Therefore their head to head is also misleading as most of his wins came when Murray was just a little kid (away from clay).
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He acted like a little kid in Indian Wells, that's for sure.
 
Great match! (For Djokovic). It was good to see his hard work pay off and see him playing like his old self again. Congrats to Nole!
 
Spider said:
Nadal is an early bloomer like Hewitt (but much better at it). Therefore their head to head is also misleading as most of his wins came when Murray was just a little kid (away from clay).
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Nadal may be an early bloomer but Murray hadn't bloomed at all. Even on his best surface and nadals best, nadal has better results
 
Blinkism said:
So, who in your opinion has done better than Djokovic in the fall season?
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Federer was slightly better. Davy is up there as well (not better, but won a MS title and beat Djoko and Nadal back to back). Nadal, as much as you guys are bashing his game, had nice results. A Cincy semi, a USO semi, a China final, and Paris semi. No title, but highly consistent.

I wouldn't rank them, but I would say the top 4 players since the USO have been Fed, Nadal, Davy, Djoko.
 
P_Agony said:
Federer was slightly better. Davy is up there as well (not better, but won a MS title and beat Djoko and Nadal back to back). Nadal, as much as you guys are bashing his game, had nice results. A Cincy semi, a USO semi, a China final, and Paris semi. No title, but highly consistent.

I wouldn't rank them, but I would say the top 4 players since the USO have been Fed, Nadal, Davy, Djoko.
Click to expand...

Fall season begins after the USO.

Djokovic has been the top player since, mostly because of his consistence.

Federer's only played Basel and he was bested by Djokovic there. And ofcourse, losing 2nd round in Paris... :(

I'd say Nadal is definitely in the Top 3 in the fall. I guess you'd have to place Davydenko as 2nd place - 2 titles in the fall plus going deep in other tournaments.
 
MuseFan said:
That was his peak performance of the year. Ever since IW, Rafa has been on a downward slide...
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He was very impressive in Monte Carlo, Barcelona and Rome too. 1 set dropped in 3 tournaments combined. In Madrid, I started to get concerned because he looked relatively slower compared to before, and that was before that 4 hour Djokovic match.
 
I agree with Blinkism that Novak is the best inform player right now(as in at this moment)and the favourite for WTF,we'll see how it goes there,we might be in for some great matches between the top players.
 
Blinkism said:
Fall season begins after the USO.

Djokovic has been the top player since, mostly because of his consistence.
Click to expand...

If you make me rank, I would say Davy. Reason being his MS title, which is better than consistency. Djokovic 2nd due to his ATP 500 title, Fed and Nadal are 3rd. If we include USO, Montreal and Cincy, Djokovic isn't even top 5.
 
Does nadal have any chance of finishing the year number 1?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mansewerz said:
Does nadal have any chance of finishing the year number 1?
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Yeah,I think he has to win WTF with one RR loss or get to the final without any RR loses while Fed has to lose all of his matches there.

So basically Nadal can only afford to lose one match and Fed has to lose all of them for Nadal to finish #1.Not impossible but not very likely either.
 
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