Djokovic vs Safin : Who is better?

[Shady_Sawyer]

I mean the level of play of Djokovic in 2011 AO vs that of Safin in 2005 AO.

Serve:- Safin
Return :- Djokovic
Forehand:- Djokovic
Backhand:- Safin
Court Coverage:- Djokovic
Volleys :- Safin

 

[dominikk1985]

At his best safin could play at least as good as nole.

However he was much more inconsistent and had days were he shanked everything and lost to players he should not loose to.

With safin it was also very mood dependent. sometimes he would just not feel like training hard or give his best in matches and sometimes he was in very good shape.

You never new what you would get with safin.

 

[Shady_Sawyer]

At his best safin could play at least as good as nole.

However he was much more inconsistent and had days were he shanked everything and lost to players he should not loose to.

With safin it was also very mood dependent. sometimes he would just not feel like training hard or give his best in matches and sometimes he was in very good shape.

You never new what you would get with safin.

As far as I see it at the highest level Safin can play like a GOAT but Djokovic just plays like a lendl at his best. Djokovic and GOAT do not belong in the same sentence

 

[Xemi666]

The question would be easier to answer if it was "who is more overrated?"

 

[NadalAgassi]

As far as I see it at the highest level Safin can play like a GOAT but Djokovic just plays like a lendl at his best. Djokovic and GOAT do not belong in the same sentence

Safin and GOAT dont belong in the same sentence either. Remember these are two TWO slam winners, not 14 or 16 slam winners. Neither even belong in the same sentence as Lendl at this point. Djokovic obviously will surpass Safin as a player though considering he has to win atleast one more major in his career, possibly more.

 

[TheBoom]

Djokovic would win over all with his slight edge in mental ability

 

[NadalAgassi]

I mean the level of play of Djokovic in 2011 AO vs that of Safin in 2005 AO.

Serve:- Safin
Return :- Djokovic
Forehand:- Djokovic
Backhand:- Safin
Court Coverage:- Djokovic
Volleys :- Safin

I do think Safin of the 2005 Australian Open would win in this hypothetical. Djokovic is playing amazing now but Safin at the 2005 Australian Open beat Federer at his career peak playing very well. Federer played pretty well against Djokovic at the Australian Open considering his current level as a player (still not great even for his current standards) but is obviously nowhere near the player he was in 2005 at this point.

 

[kishnabe]

Safin in 2005 Australian Open...answered his call for once.....that time he was unstoppable! I don't think Djokovic has a chance! Still I think Djokovic will have the better career and much more peak performances! Safin peak is better but it rarely happens!

 

[Li Ching Yuen]

Tennis in 2011 is of a much better quality than what it was in 2005 when you still had clay-courters, almost-retired veterans, and guys like Hewitt still at the top of the game.

Djokovic no doubt.

However, if we were to talk about Safin circa 2000-01, that'd be a real comparison. I'm still in awe of that guy that beat Sampras convincingly. Amazing net skills for a baseliner.

 

[gsquicksilver]

at his best, no one could beat safin. however, he was a headcase and underachieved in his career.

 

[gsquicksilver]

Tennis in 2011 is of a much better quality than what it was in 2005 when you still had clay-courters, almost-retired veterans, and guys like Hewitt still at the top of the game.

Djokovic no doubt.

However, if we were to talk about Safin circa 2000-01, that'd be a real comparison. I'm still in awe of that guy that beat Sampras convincingly. Amazing net skills for a baseliner.

did you see the 2005 australian open semi where he destroyed federer? federer was playing out of his mind in that match and still couldn't beat safin.

 

[Lsmkenpo]

Djokovic has no net game compared to Safin, Djokovic looks good because this is the slowest era in terms of court playing speed in the history of the sport.

On courts that favor defense Djokovic is better, on courts designed to play the sport like a man, Safin is the superior talent.

 

[Sid_Vicious]

did you see the 2005 australian open semi where he destroyed federer? federer was playing out of his mind in that match and still couldn't beat safin.

lol destroy? Federer was not exactly helpless on court was he?

Also, people overstate Federer's level in that match. You could get the idea that Federer was bombing 100% of his first serves over and hitting 100 mph forehands on every point. :lol:

Federer made unforced errors by the truckload in that match. So did Safin. It was not either player's most inspired performance.

 

[T1000]

did you see the 2005 australian open semi where he destroyed federer? federer was playing out of his mind in that match and still couldn't beat safin.

No just no, go watch the match before you make dumb statements. 5 sets, all separated by just one break or tiebrake and 9-7 in the fifth isnt destroying. Federer also should have finished him off in the 4th set breaker, he missed a ton of chances to win the match. And he wasn't playing out of his mind, just a normal match for prime Fed.

Tennis in 2011 is of a much better quality than what it was in 2005 when you still had clay-courters, almost-retired veterans, and guys like Hewitt still at the top of the game.

Djokovic no doubt.

However, if we were to talk about Safin circa 2000-01, that'd be a real comparison. I'm still in awe of that guy that beat Sampras convincingly. Amazing net skills for a baseliner.

:lol: Verdasco in the top 10, pusher Roddick, Murray the choker, ********, Nadal who's injured half the year yea real strong era.

 

[Sid_Vicious]

No just no, go watch the match before you make dumb statements. 5 sets, all separated by just one break or tiebrake and 9-7 in the fifth isnt destroying. Federer also should have finished him off in the 4th set breaker, he missed a ton of chances to win the match. And he wasn't playing out of his mind, just a normal match for prime Fed.



:lol: Verdasco in the top 10, pusher Roddick, Murray the choker, ********, Nadal who's injured half the year yea real strong era.

T1000, I loled at your negativity. :lol: Good stuff.

 

[Devilito]

lol destroy? Federer was not exactly helpless on court was he?

Also, people overstate Federer's level in that match. You could get the idea that Federer was bombing 100% of his first serves over and hitting 100 mph forehands on every point. :lol:

Federer made unforced errors by the truckload in that match. So did Safin. It was not either player's most inspired performance.

Lol good call. The match is way over rated in terms of quality. It’s also funny how people refer to close 5 set matches as “destroy”. Seems like a common trend. Like, “Federer destroyed Sampras in 2001” when Pete was 2 points away from winning the match and it went down to the wire in the fifth.

 

[Fiji]

Nole, imo.

 

[PSNELKE]

Safin was undoubtedly more talented than Djokovic
and I think Safin showed the better performances in 2005.
But Nole will definately have the better career with more accomplishments than Safin, imo the guy pretty much wasted his talent.

 

[tennis_pro]

Safin in 2005 Australian Open...answered his call for once.....that time he was unstoppable! I don't think Djokovic has a chance! Still I think Djokovic will have the better career and much more peak performances! Safin peak is better but it rarely happens!

The funny thing is that Safin actually played Djokovic at the 2005 Australian Open, in the first round to be exact and the Russian won 6-0 6-2 6-1.

Seals the deal for me as far as who's better!

 

[PSNELKE]

Djokovic would win over all with his slight edge in mental ability

Nah I don´t think Nole has the edge in this category.
He knows how to break down in a match same like Safin. imo

 

[PSNELKE]

The funny thing is that Safin actually played Djokovic at the 2005 Australian Open, in the first round to be exact and the Russian won 6-0 6-2 6-1.

Seals the deal for me as far as who's better!

This cannot be your argument, Nole was 17 y/o back then.
You just can´t compare his game today to his game back in 2005.

 

[tennis_pro]

Tennis in 2011 is of a much better quality than what it was in 2005 when you still had clay-courters, almost-retired veterans, and guys like Hewitt still at the top of the game

Look at the quarter-final match ups at the 2005 Australian Open.

Federer-Agassi
Safin-Hrbaty
Nalbandian-Hewitt (Hewitt beat Nadal in the 4th, Nalbandian beat Coria)
Davydenko-Roddick (Davydenko beat Henman)

Federer, Safin, Nalbandian, Hewitt, Davydenko, Roddick all in their primes, Agassi still playing great at 34.

Look at the quarterfinalists at the 2011 Australian Open.

Dolgopolov? Berdych? Wawrinka? Ferrer?

Even if you look at the better players it's 30-year old Federer who almost went out in the 2nd round and hasn't won a Slam in a year, injured Nadal, only Djokovic and Murray were the real deal even tho we know Murray is a headcase in Slam finals.

 

[tennis_pro]

This cannot be your argument, Nole was 17 y/o back then.
You just can´t compare his game today to his game back in 2005.

It's a joke. I thought the state-the-obvious was too obvious there.

 

[PSNELKE]

It's a joke. I thought the state-the-obvious was too obvious there.

Lol yeah I got it after a few minutes

 

[Li Ching Yuen]

did you see the 2005 australian open semi where he destroyed federer? federer was playing out of his mind in that match and still couldn't beat safin.

That match was a drag to watch. Safin played great at the time for where he was in his career and Federer was just average and I dare say, poor for his level in 05.

:lol: Verdasco in the top 10, pusher Roddick, Murray the choker, ********, Nadal who's injured half the year yea real strong era.

I don't know why I'm replying to this post since it very much seems you're some kind of mtf troll that lost it's way around here.

By quality I meant quality of the players and the tennis they bring out there. Much more physical and dare I say, technical.

Verdasco is in the top ten because he had a great clay court season, Roddick has been in the Top 10 for the past decade and Murray has won a crapload of Masters and has been in 3 slam finals while also often winning against both Federer and Nadal, the loving object of many tennis trolls all over the world. So yeah, I think that today's tennis players are better than 2005.

 

[Li Ching Yuen]

Look at the quarter-final match ups at the 2005 Australian Open.

Federer-Agassi
Safin-Hrbaty
Nalbandian-Hewitt (Hewitt beat Nadal in the 4th, Nalbandian beat Coria)
Davydenko-Roddick (Davydenko beat Henman)

Federer, Safin, Nalbandian, Hewitt, Davydenko, Roddick all in their primes, Agassi still playing great at 34.

Look at the quarterfinalists at the 2011 Australian Open.

Dolgopolov? Berdych? Wawrinka? Ferrer?

Even if you look at the better players it's 30-year old Federer who almost went out in the 2nd round and hasn't won a Slam in a year, injured Nadal, only Djokovic and Murray were the real deal even tho we know Murray is a headcase in Slam finals.

3 of those guys are still competing now and they're not really cruising around if you haven't noticed.

What is it with you people and Murray?...the guy beat Rafa and Federer many times, that's something that Davydenko and Roddick in 2005 were fantasizing about and wouldn't have dreamed of achieving. And don't give me that crap with peak Fed since he has lost to Andy even since Murray was a teenager.

Dolgopolov is a newcomer, Ferrer is a solid veteran, Wawrinka played some amazing tennis to get where he has in AO and Berdych is a big talent that has even impressed the much beloved Agassi when they played each other in 2005.

It's much easier to bash these guys but I've watched the tennis of 2005 and I think I have a much better idea of what those guys were doing then compared to today.

Thanks. Bye.

 

[tennis_pro]

3 of those guys are still competing now and they're not really cruising around if you haven't noticed.

What is it with you people and Murray?...the guy beat Rafa and Federer many times, that's something that Davydenko and Roddick in 2005 were fantasizing about and wouldn't have dreamed of achieving. And don't give me that crap with peak Fed since he has lost to Andy even since Murray was a teenager.

Dolgopolov is a newcomer, Ferrer is a solid veteran, Wawrinka played some amazing tennis to get where he has in AO and Berdych is a big talent that has even impressed the much beloved Agassi when they played each other in 2005.

It's much easier to bash these guys but I've watched the tennis of 2005 and I think I have a much better idea of what those guys were doing then compared to today.

Thanks. Bye.

Ok that's your opinion. 2 things tho:

1) I watched tennis in 2005 as much as I do now and the level is comparable, could even give a slight edge to 2005 because of more high quality players in their prime. Now we've got only Nadal, Djokovic and Murray in their primes, possibly Del Potro if he gets back to the top 20 or something.

2) Murray beat Federer in Cincinnati 2006 when Federer was completely out of steam. Federer gave a memorable interview after the loss mentioning "giving byes to seeded players in the first round" so that they're not exhausted after playing that many matches in a row.

If you have any doubts about the match, watch some highlights. Federer didn't even bother to run down balls. There were like 10-12 breaks of serve in the match, shocking if you think about Federer's then standard 50-second service holds.

 

[YodaKnowsBest]

Serve:- Safin
Return :- Djokovic
Forehand:- Safin
Backhand:- Djokovic
Court Coverage:- Djokovic
Volleys :- Safin

I think they're about even.
Hardcourt: 5 setter ( could go both ways)
Grass: Safin in 3 sets
Clay: Djokovic in 3 sets

 

[Shady_Sawyer]

Serve:- Safin
Return :- Djokovic
Forehand:- Safin
Backhand:- Djokovic
Court Coverage:- Djokovic
Volleys :- Safin

I think they're about even.
Hardcourt: 5 setter ( could go both ways)
Grass: Safin in 3 sets
Clay: Djokovic in 3 sets

Backhand:- Djokovic? ...no way. Safin has a GOAT backhand without a doubt.Djokovic has a better forehand though

 

[junk]

talking about eras - listen to what Agassi had to say today http://tennis.com/articles/templates/features.aspx?articleid=10796&zoneid=9

TENNIS.com: You retired five years ago. When you watch the game now, is there anything you notice that’s different from when you stopped playing?

Agassi: It’s better. Considerably better. The thing that’s really changed the game most dramatically has been the strings. Because now you get rewarded for really swinging out at every ball. Then you combine that with just the athletes getting better, you combine that with what [Rafael] Nadal and [Roger] Federer have done to the game, I just think it’s a different class now, without question.

 

[gsquicksilver]

lol destroy? Federer was not exactly helpless on court was he?

Also, people overstate Federer's level in that match. You could get the idea that Federer was bombing 100% of his first serves over and hitting 100 mph forehands on every point. :lol:

Federer made unforced errors by the truckload in that match. So did Safin. It was not either player's most inspired performance.

fed gave all he got in that match but he was simply overpowered and outhit by safin.

 

[gsquicksilver]

No just no, go watch the match before you make dumb statements. 5 sets, all separated by just one break or tiebrake and 9-7 in the fifth isnt destroying. Federer also should have finished him off in the 4th set breaker, he missed a ton of chances to win the match. And he wasn't playing out of his mind, just a normal match for prime Fed.

it's not a dumb statement. safin beat federer and federer gave all he got in that match. he simply was outhit by safin and overpowered that match.

a normal match for fed during that time would have been a victory for him.

 

[gamesetmats]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOgzupsI19Y&feature=related

Wimbledon 2008? Anyone?

 

[Li Ching Yuen]

talking about eras - listen to what Agassi had to say today http://tennis.com/articles/templates/features.aspx?articleid=10796&zoneid=9

TENNIS.com: You retired five years ago. When you watch the game now, is there anything you notice that’s different from when you stopped playing?

Agassi: It’s better. Considerably better. The thing that’s really changed the game most dramatically has been the strings. Because now you get rewarded for really swinging out at every ball. Then you combine that with just the athletes getting better, you combine that with what [Rafael] Nadal and [Roger] Federer have done to the game, I just think it’s a different class now, without question.

Thanks.

I seriously think I'm one of the few that has commented in this thread that has had the opportunity to watch tennis regularly in 2005 and before that.

I'll take as example a guy like Soderling. I've been posting here a lot and you guys probably know I don't really have any sympathies towards the guy or many of the current guys on tour but to me, some of his best matches are absolutely inhuman to fathom at times. That's tennis that you would hardly even imagine years ago. I think that because of the internet and the chances we get to watch these guys week in and out we kind of lose track of what they're really achieving.


If you'd watch Federer-Soderling at Rolland Garros around 10-12 years ago, and see that kind of tennis I would guarantee that you would be poking your eyeballs out.

And that is the 5th best player in the world right now, probably 6th if Del Potro gets back in the mix soon.

Again, I ask everyone out there, just step back a little and really think this through, more objectively.

 

[Sid_Vicious]

fed gave all he got in that match but he was simply overpowered and outhit by safin.

Cool story, bro.

 

[pound cat]

Cool story, bro.

It's a good thing Safin quit when he did. He never liked to work out then...here is now

His arm is just about as thin as the girl's behind him.

He was so exciting to watch as a very young player...and then he won USO 2000 and his tennis mind left him until he was motivated again in 2005.

One of a kind in tennis, that guy.

Davai MAPAT!

 

[pound cat]

BTW Safin is still heavily involved in tennis in Russia, getting young people to enter the sport. Go to ****************dotcom for up tp date reports of his comings and goings.

m.e.n.s.t.e.n.n.i.s.f.o.r.u.m.s.d.o.t.c.o.m.

 

[gsquicksilver]

Cool story, bro.

thanks bro. did you get a chance to watch the match? imo, i thought that was one of safin's best matches where all cylinders were firing for him.

 

[Tony48]

Safin AO: 5 sets lost
Djoker AO: 1 set lost

Djokovic had a more dominating performance.

 

[tennis_pro]

Safin AO: 5 sets lost
Djoker AO: 1 set lost

Djokovic had a more dominating performance.

that's not a fair comparison

Djokovic faced a 30-year old Federer and Murray who is 0-9 in sets in GS finals

Safin faced a dominant prime Federer in the semis and prime Hewitt in the final (home crowd) who wanted the title badly so the pressure was immense. No comparison. Djokovic wouldn't go through 2005 AO Federer playing the way he did recently. 2005 AO Safin would've won any of the 2 Australians the level he was playing.

 

[Tony48]

that's not a fair comparison

Djokovic faced a 30-year old Federer and Murray who is 0-9 in sets in GS finals

Safin faced a dominant prime Federer in the semis and prime Hewitt in the final (home crowd) who wanted the title badly so the pressure was immense. No comparison. Djokovic wouldn't go through 2005 AO Federer playing the way he did recently. 2005 AO Safin would've won any of the 2 Australians the level he was playing.

Djokovic did the same thing 3 years prior. What excuses can you come up for that one?

And Hewitt only had one straight set win the whole tournament. LOL prime my ass.

 

[tennis_pro]

Djokovic did the same thing 3 years prior. What excuses can you come up for that one?

Bring on the "excuses again" parole. I'm implying that beating a prime Federer in a Slam (on whichever surface but mostly hard/grass courts) is the ultimate accomplishment. Federer lost 1 single match in Slams on hard/grass courts in 2004-2007 and that was the 2005 AO semi against Safin.

It has nothing to do with Djokovic, he played against who was in front of him. Beating Ferrer, an ill Federer and Tsonga in the final is less impressive than beating prime Federer and Hewitt in the final (imagine the pressure in the final). We can only debate if 2008 AO/2011 AO Djokovic could beat 2005 AO Safin, all I'm saying is that Safin's way to the championship was tougher.

And Hewitt only had one straight set win the whole tournament. LOL prime my ass.

Hewitt was lucky to reach the final with that draw, Blake, Nadal, Nalbandian, Roddick? Come on. Not only that, Hewitt managed to go further than the quarter of the AO ONCE in his career, 2005. So if it 2005 wasn't his prime, what was it then? Maybe you're saying that he had his best results in 2001-2002? Totally agree, but he was in his prime in 2000-2005.

 

[veroniquem]

All I know is that Djokovic is having a much better career than Safin. How long has he been in the top 3 already? He is more consistent at the highest level (despite his inconsistencies, more consistent than Safin and with better results).

 

[Tony48]

Bring on the "excuses again" parole. I'm implying that beating a prime Federer in a Slam (on whichever surface but mostly hard/grass courts) is the ultimate accomplishment. Federer lost 1 single match in Slams on hard/grass courts in 2004-2007 and that was the 2005 AO semi against Safin.

It has nothing to do with Djokovic, he played against who was in front of him. Beating Ferrer, an ill Federer and Tsonga in the final is less impressive than beating prime Federer and Hewitt in the final (imagine the pressure in the final). We can only debate if 2008 AO/2011 AO Djokovic could beat 2005 AO Safin, all I'm saying is that Safin's way to the championship was tougher.

Federer was tired of winning and decided to let Safin go on to the final. He could have tried harder but didn't want to.

See what I did? I made a subjective excuse to belittle Safin's win like you're doing against Djokovic.

It goes both ways.

Hewitt was lucky to reach the final with that draw, Blake, Nadal, Nalbandian, Roddick? Come on. Not only that, Hewitt managed to go further than the quarter of the AO ONCE in his career, 2005. So if it 2005 wasn't his prime, what was it then? Maybe you're saying that he had his best results in 2001-2002? Totally agree, but he was in his prime in 2000-2005.

1) Ummm....Blake was not even seeded
2) Nor was Nadal

Nalbandian and Roddick were admittedly tougher and that's it. My point is that his alleged "prime" wasn't too impressive in the actual matches.

 

[NadalAgassi]

Djokovic did the same thing 3 years prior. What excuses can you come up for that one?

And Hewitt only had one straight set win the whole tournament. LOL prime my ass.

Hewitt's best years of tennis were 2004 and 2005. If the field was exactly the same as 2001 and 2002 he would have been even more dominant. In 2004 and 2005 his only losses in slams were to Federer (5 times), Safin, and Gaudio on clay. From late 2001-early 2003 which was his best results period and most of the time he was ranked #1 he lost in slams to Escude, Alberto Martin, Canas, El Anynaoui, and Robredo.

And 2008 Federer was still nothing like 2005 Federer that Safin beat, and his level of play in the 2008 Australian Open does not even scrape the surface of how he was playing at the 2005 event.

 

[tennis_pro]

Federer was tired of winning and decided to let Safin go on to the final. He could have tried harder but didn't want to.

See what I did? I made a subjective excuse to belittle Safin's win like you're doing against Djokovic.

It goes both ways./QUOTE]

No, that was just dumb.

Federer was tired of winning? What crap, man. If you wanna talk about double standards do better than that.

1) Ummm....Blake was not even seeded
2) Nor was Nadal

Was Tsonga seeded? And that's even worse since Hewitt faced them in the 3rd and 4th round respectively, Djokovic played an unseeded player in the final.

That often proves nothing. We know Tsonga did well in the final, we know that Blake only started his good streak of 2005-2006, Nadal reached his first Masters final 2 months after that AO and dominated the whole clay that season, won 90 % of his yearly matches.

Nalbandian and Roddick were admittedly tougher and that's it. My point is that his alleged "prime" wasn't too impressive in the actual matches.

That's it and that's enough to prove my point. Who was tougher for Djokovic in 2008 than Roddick/Nalbandian for Hewitt in 2005? David Ferrer? Federer would top both if he wasn't ill and leaking errors from both wings. Tsonga as I mentioned played well in the final but such 1-timers very often lose that final, vide Verkerk who beat 2 best clay courters at the 2003 FO and lost to Ferrero badly in the final.

 

[NadalAgassi]

Federer was tired of winning and decided to let Safin go on to the final. He could have tried harder but didn't want to.

See what I did? I made a subjective excuse to belittle Safin's win like you're doing against Djokovic.

It goes both ways.

Nobody is belittling Djokovic. Just pointing out to you that is it not realistic at all to think the level of opponents Djokovic played in either of his Australian Open runs were the same as Safin in 2005, so you cant expect people to just look at sets lost and end the conversation right there. And I like Djokovic more than Safin for what its worth.

1) Ummm....Blake was not even seeded
2) Nor was Nadal

Nalbandian and Roddick were admittedly tougher and that's it. My point is that his alleged "prime" wasn't too impressive in the actual matches.

Your point on Nadal is somewhat ridiculous. Nadal would soon be entrenched as the solid #2 only months from that point. He was not your typical "unseeded" player. Had he beaten Hewitt he probably would have gone on to make the final, especialy since Roddick was going through his horrible Goldfine phase.

 

[NadalAgassi]

All I know is that Djokovic is having a much better career than Safin. How long has he been in the top 3 already? He is more consistent at the highest level (despite his inconsistencies, more consistent than Safin and with better results).

I agree with this. While I do think Safin at his absolute best would probably win, Djokovic is clearly on his way to surpassing Safin overall as a player if he hasnt already. Peak level can only count for so much.

 

[SoBad]

Ridiculous question, Djokovic is a very good player, better than Murray or Federer, but so far has established a reputation as AO specialist, while there have been compelling arguments for Safin as the greatest of all time. Additionally, Safin holds the all-time record for centuries and millennia finished ranked No. 1.

 

[snoflewis]

better career when it's all said and done, most likely djokovic (granted there aren't any career ending injuries anytime soon).

at the peak of their career, it's hard to say, because i dont think we've seen djokovic at his best yet. but right now, safin. he beat the two best players to ever play this sport in a major.

in my mind, i equate djokovic's win over federer in the AO this year as similar to safin's win over sampras at the USO.