Djokovic vs Safin : Who is better?

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Consistency? Novak... maybe even more talented. Who is better and achieved the highest level of tennis? Safin would beat Novak if both were 100%.
 

JimF

Rookie
High Quality Indeed, But Consider the Surface

Just watched highlights of AO2005. No two players on the planet today could have beaten either Fed or Safin from that match.

I'd almost agree -- but with a significant caveat.

The tennis bureaucrats have slowed down every surface, turning every event into clay court boredom. Five-hour matches are becoming routine, not from excellence, but routine, endless, top-spin rallies.

Can't play quality, attacking tennis on courts slow as molasses. :rolleyes:

P.S. Safin's coach, ex-Fed's coach, revealed that Fed had blisters on this feet by the fifth set. He could tell by watching his movement and shots.
 

JimF

Rookie
Safin's back

Talent wise Safin is better than Djokovic, imo he was better than agassi too.Safin should of won at least 5 grandslams, but he couldn't get his head together sometimes, he also had a bad injury during his career too but anyways he didn't have a bad career, 2 granslams is a dream for most players but a huge underachievment for Safin.

Good point. People forget that Safin lost a year with a back fracture.

Sounds like the same injury his sister had. Never seen the media examine that.
 
Well, I think these are two great players, real tennis talents and great athletes. If you really think about it there are very few players in the history of tennis that have this combination of physical tools and big time games than these two guys. I would put them up there with maybe only with Agassi in terms of ball striking from both wings (FH and BH).

Safin was just such a great ball striker when he was on. Nole seems much tougher mentally and probably more steady from the baseline. Saifn is more physically imposing but Nole has an edge in speed. talent wise and big time game wise it's very close.

Nole I'm sure will have a much more successful career; in fact he probably already has (he's had way more time spent in the top 4 of the game and he's only 24 years old).

1st Serve- pretty close, edge to Safin
2nd Serve- close, edge to Djoker
FH- close- edge to Djoker
BH- Very close, edge to Safin
Speed- Djoker
Footwork- Djoker
Fitness- Probably Djoker
Variety (use to different spins)- probably Djoker- although both guys like to crank it
Overall Power- Safin
Touch- close, Safin
Volleys- Safin
Top Spin- Djoker
Slice- Even
Mental- Djoker, by a rather wide margin

Final analysis- Probably have to go with Djoker due to his consistency, his movement, and lack of any real weakness (exception being volley's).
 

bolo

G.O.A.T.
Have to go with djokovic.

He's going to have the better career and is going to be better on more surfaces. Safin's best surface looks to have been the AO and if you look at all his stats. at the USO, they are pretty underwhelming. :) Nice victory in 2000 though.
 

Tony48

Legend
No, that was just dumb.

Federer was tired of winning? What crap, man. If you wanna talk about double standards do better than that.

Almost as dumb as saying that Djokovic had to face a "30-year-old" Federer? Well if Federer being "30-years-old" is that important, then why is he the odds on favorite to win every slam apart from the French Open?

Was Tsonga seeded? And that's even worse since Hewitt faced them in the 3rd and 4th round respectively, Djokovic played an unseeded player in the final.

That often proves nothing. We know Tsonga did well in the final, we know that Blake only started his good streak of 2005-2006, Nadal reached his first Masters final 2 months after that AO and dominated the whole clay that season, won 90 % of his yearly matches.

And Federer went on to win a CARRER SLAM worth of majors after 2008 (and make the final of the next six slams) But like you claim, only Safin played quality opponents. Federer might has well been unseeded in 2008, right?

That's it and that's enough to prove my point. Who was tougher for Djokovic in 2008 than Roddick/Nalbandian for Hewitt in 2005? David Ferrer? Federer would top both if he wasn't ill and leaking errors from both wings. Tsonga as I mentioned played well in the final but such 1-timers very often lose that final, vide Verkerk who beat 2 best clay courters at the 2003 FO and lost to Ferrero badly in the final.

Since Djokovic beat Federer in 2011 in the same manner that he did in 2008, I would think that you would have dropped the "he was ill" excuse by now.
 

snoflewis

Legend
Are you ********, Federer had mono in 2008, and whos the two best players ever to play the game, Federer and Nadal right?

lol. you need to calm down kid. especially for someone who orders the wrong racket, i wouldnt go around calling people ********.

this is apparently a sensitive subject for you and i thought i was pretty clear in my post, but i guess i'll have to explain myself because you didnt get it the first time. nowhere in my post did i mention anything about the year 2008. i said i equate djokovic's win over federer to safin's win over sampras. meaning, djokovic and safin, both up and coming players when they won those slams beat the best to ever play during their time. for safin in 2000, that was sampras. for djokovic, federer. secondly, when i said the two best players, i was referring to federer and sampras. i dont consider nadal to have had a better career than sampras. maybe when it's all said and done, but i dont feel like he's had a better career yet, especially taking into consideration that the surfaces have been slower over the years.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
if Federer being "30-years-old" is that important, then why is he the odds on favorite to win every slam apart from the French Open?

He isnt. Nadal is the favorite to win any slam he enters these days outside maybe the U.S Open. Federer even in the twilight of his career still has generous odds to win slams due to his deluded and large fan base.


And Federer went on to win a CARRER SLAM worth of majors after 2008

Only due to Nadal's injury. Otherwise Federer's last non hard court slam would have been in 2007.
 

JimF

Rookie
Safin a Full Court Player

This comparison is more interesting on second thought than it seemed at first -- because it says something about the ATP's status, and the preponderance of "Grinders" at the top.

Safin is more like Robin Soderling than Djokovic.

Safin had Soderling's serve and forehand -- BUT with a much better backhand, and unlike either Soderling and Djokovic, Safin was good at the net.

Both Djokovic and Soderling lost GS finals to Nadal for the same reason, they pushed him all over the court, dictated play, then couldn't close out the deal because they treat the net like poison ivy. Part of that is the glacially-slow courts these days, to be fair.

By contrast, if Safin had been in those two finals, Nadal couldn't have gotten away with blocking back serves and restarting points with loopers from 15 feet behind the baseline. Safin would have put them away, IMHO.
 
Firstly Djockovic didn't have to play that well to beat Murray in that final.

Secondly Djockovic played brilliantly in the SF vs Federer and if you took that performance compared to Safin winning in 5 sets over Federer in the AO final I'd say that Djickovic was way better than Safin.

All round they're probably of a similar standard when playing their best but Djokovic plays his best far more often and consistently than Safin.

Safin greatly underachieved throughout his career - I don't think the same will be said of Djockovic when he retires.
 

gamesetmats

New User
Firstly Djockovic didn't have to play that well to beat Murray in that final.

Secondly Djockovic played brilliantly in the SF vs Federer and if you took that performance compared to Safin winning in 5 sets over Federer in the AO final I'd say that Djickovic was way better than Safin.




Ok I agree kind of...But after just watching some parts of the 2005 sf match (2nd set) I must say that Federer played A LOT better in the 2005 match. He moved quicker, served better. Safin was playing unbelievable too. The 2005 sf level of play was much better, imho. And yes, I have seen the 2011 sf.
 
This comparison is more interesting on second thought than it seemed at first -- because it says something about the ATP's status, and the preponderance of "Grinders" at the top.

Safin is more like Robin Soderling than Djokovic.

Safin had Soderling's serve and forehand -- BUT with a much better backhand, and unlike either Soderling and Djokovic, Safin was good at the net.

Both Djokovic and Soderling lost GS finals to Nadal for the same reason, they pushed him all over the court, dictated play, then couldn't close out the deal because they treat the net like poison ivy. Part of that is the glacially-slow courts these days, to be fair.

By contrast, if Safin had been in those two finals, Nadal couldn't have gotten away with blocking back serves and restarting points with loopers from 15 feet behind the baseline. Safin would have put them away, IMHO.

Quite true:)
 

Mortifier

Hall of Fame
This comparison is more interesting on second thought than it seemed at first -- because it says something about the ATP's status, and the preponderance of "Grinders" at the top.

Safin is more like Robin Soderling than Djokovic.

Safin had Soderling's serve and forehand -- BUT with a much better backhand, and unlike either Soderling and Djokovic, Safin was good at the net.

Both Djokovic and Soderling lost GS finals to Nadal for the same reason, they pushed him all over the court, dictated play, then couldn't close out the deal because they treat the net like poison ivy. Part of that is the glacially-slow courts these days, to be fair.

By contrast, if Safin had been in those two finals, Nadal couldn't have gotten away with blocking back serves and restarting points with loopers from 15 feet behind the baseline. Safin would have put them away, IMHO.

Very good post. Especially the bold part.

I would say that Soderling has on average the better forehand though. On their peak, they're pretty much even.
 

aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
Now, now, let's not get rushed there.

Surely Nadal's usual game is not well-suited against consistent power baseliners with a good net game (see Tsonga 2008), but these days he does make adjustments against them. Gone are the days where Nadal would lose to any top tenner in HC most of the time.

My point: it would be close.
 

DownTheLine

Hall of Fame
I mean the level of play of Djokovic in 2011 AO vs that of Safin in 2005 AO.

Serve:- Safin
Return :- Djokovic
Forehand:- Djokovic
Backhand:- Safin
Court Coverage:- Djokovic
Volleys :- Safin

You're right besides the forehand. Safin is the better player between the two. If Safin cared more about it he would have had 5+ grandslams.
 

Talker

Hall of Fame
I'll go with Djokovic.
No matter how hard Safin practiced he could only come up with good games once in awhile.
Djokovic is more reliable and will probably win a few more slams.
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Have to go with djokovic.

He's going to have the better career and is going to be better on more surfaces. Safin's best surface looks to have been the AO and if you look at all his stats. at the USO, they are pretty underwhelming. :) Nice victory in 2000 though.
He was pretty good indoor too. Of course Djoko is the better of the 2, no contest.
 

Tony48

Legend
He isnt. Nadal is the favorite to win any slam he enters these days outside maybe the U.S Open. Federer even in the twilight of his career still has generous odds to win slams due to his deluded and large fan base.

I stand corrected.

But still....2nd favorite to win every single slam (including the French) says that Federer is still a huge threat. It doesn't portray Federer as a feeble, old has-been that tennis_pro is making him out to be. It's extremely disingenuous.

Only due to Nadal's injury. Otherwise Federer's last non hard court slam would have been in 2007.

I don't buy injury excuses from anyone (Djokovic included). If you're on court, you revoke your right to blame it on some mysterious, supposedly "pre-existing" ailment.
 

Blue Cat

Banned
Safin is more like Robin Soderling than Djokovic.


In terms of stroke mechanics and production they are nothing a like. Soderling hits very flat on his FH side, and stays back due to his longer backswing than Safin. Safin hits the ball with a bit too much spin and takes the ball on the rise. The only similarity on the BH side is that they both have a 2hander. That's all.


They don't even play that similar. Soderling goes for the kill on every shot. Safin although had as much power from the baseline as Soderling didn't kill every shot. He crafted and constructed points and waited for the right ball to go for. They both played aggressive but it was just completely different.


Safin had Soderling's serve and forehand -- BUT with a much better backhand, and unlike either Soderling and Djokovic, Safin was good at the net.


Again, the FH comparison is silly. Djokovic is also good at the net. Soderling had the better 1st serve than Safin.

Both Djokovic and Soderling lost GS finals to Nadal for the same reason, they pushed him all over the court, dictated play, then couldn't close out the deal because they treat the net like poison ivy. Part of that is the glacially-slow courts these days, to be fair.

Soderling didn't dictate play at the FO 2010 final. That is just a myth. How can you dictate play when you can't hit a ball into the court? Soderling played as bad as he could that day coupled with the fact Nadal was awsome throughout the whole clay season.

By contrast, if Safin had been in those two finals, Nadal couldn't have gotten away with blocking back serves and restarting points with loopers from 15 feet behind the baseline. Safin would have put them away, IMHO.



If Safin was to play Nadal at the US Open. More than likely he wins in straights. It's also more than likely Nadal wins in straights at the French Open. I couldn't see Nadal hurting Safin at all from the baseline and I couldn't see Safin staying mentally focused against Nadal from the duration of the match on clay. Comprisons of Djokovic and Safin are fair. They play similar. They both craft and create points from the baseline. They both take the ball early. They have lots of power from their strokes although they don't chose to ball bash. They also play one-dimensional games for players who are highly skilled in every department.
 

sten17

New User
All I know is that Djokovic is having a much better career than Safin. How long has he been in the top 3 already? He is more consistent at the highest level (despite his inconsistencies, more consistent than Safin and with better results).

That's the difference.

Djokovic is more stable emotionally. What we're seeing now is a young man who has worked through various difficulties, with his family, team, health, (serve) and is coming into his own.

I don't believe we have seen "prime" Djokovic yet, just glimpses.
 

stingstang

Professional
Safin was like an italian sports car, incredible for short periods but will overheat and self destruct before long. Djokovic is a porsche, very good all of the time.
 

FlamEnemY

Hall of Fame
I'm not one to judge who is better. But I'd like to say that I agree with some posters above - Djokovic hasn't shown his peak level. I think the best is yet to come, maybe later this year or next year.

Besides, it's kind of pointless to compare a retired player with a 24-year old.
 

glazkovss

Professional
Prime Safin would beat anyone now on hardcourts, including Djokovic. He had too much weapons and no weaknesses. But Djokovic due to his consistency has a better career so far, and on his average day I believe would beat average Safin. On his bad day Marat could lose to anyone, but by the way he could also break racket-breaking records. I remember one year he broke about 40 of them in total - that would just be mad in today's good boy's era. He would be favourite in a GRBOAT (racket breaker) debate:)
 

Xemi666

Professional
Prime Safin would beat anyone now on hardcourts, including Djokovic. He had too much weapons and no weaknesses. But Djokovic due to his consistency has a better career so far, and on his average day I believe would beat average Safin. On his bad day Marat could lose to anyone, but by the way he could also break racket-breaking records. I remember one year he broke about 40 of them in total - that would just be mad in today's good boy's era. He would be favourite in a GRBOAT (racket breaker) debate:)

Yep, Safin really showed it during his career, his dominance on the HC slams to get a grand total of... huh, 2, mugs like Djokovic or Nadal wouldn't stand a chance :rolleyes:
 

Blue Cat

Banned
Yep, Safin really showed it during his career, his dominance on the HC slams to get a grand total of... huh, 2, mugs like Djokovic or Nadal wouldn't stand a chance :rolleyes:

Apparently you don't know tennis. And the poster above you didn't say Safin dominated the tour at any given time. If you believe Djokovic or Nadal would beat Safin on a hard court if they were both in form then I question whether you have actually watched any Safin matches on hard courts. probably some Nadal lover who hasn't watched any player outside of Nadal. Given your posts, that's what you sound like.




From a matchup perspective, Djokovic wouldn't stand a chance. He can't hurt Safin from the baseline, they both take the ball early on the rise however Safin when focused can simply hit through you and be very consistent at the same time. Djokovic would score some wins if Safin turned up with the mentality he showed frequently throughout his career but he couldn't even take a set off Safin on grass! Please explain to me how Djokovic would go about winning three sets off Safin on a hardcourt. Nadal would get blown off the court if both are at their best. Even guys like Nalbandian, JMDP, and heck Murray can trouble/beat/humiliate Nadal on hard courts. Safin would do a demolition job. Again, I don't see Safin beating Nadal and Djokovic 10/10 times on hard or indoor. However I do believe if both players stepped on the court and play to their best ability. Safin wins hands down.




Nah, you're right. Djokovic and Nadal would caine Safin. Just like prime Federer did and Sampras did, right?
 

glazkovss

Professional
mugs like Djokovic or Nadal wouldn't stand a chance :rolleyes:

Absolutely. If to choose from current pros, I think only prime Federer, and, probably, prime DelPotro, would handle prime Safin on h/c. Speaking about prime I mean the best level of play/form a certain player sustained over at least 2-3 of matches during the same major tournament. I didn't follow tennis closely during 2001-2006, so I can't speek objectively about those player's primes. but from what I have seen, I speak about Safin's 2000 US, 2005 Oz, Fed's 2004-2008 US, 2004, 2007, 2010 Oz, DelPo's 2009 US.
 

glazkovss

Professional
Apparently you don't know tennis. And the poster above you didn't say Safin dominated the tour at any given time. If you believe Djokovic or Nadal would beat Safin on a hard court if they were both in form then I question whether you have actually watched any Safin matches on hard courts. probably some Nadal lover who hasn't watched any player outside of Nadal. Given your posts, that's what you sound like.




From a matchup perspective, Djokovic wouldn't stand a chance. He can't hurt Safin from the baseline, they both take the ball early on the rise however Safin when focused can simply hit through you and be very consistent at the same time. Djokovic would score some wins if Safin turned up with the mentality he showed frequently throughout his career but he couldn't even take a set off Safin on grass! Please explain to me how Djokovic would go about winning three sets off Safin on a hardcourt. Nadal would get blown off the court if both are at their best. Even guys like Nalbandian, JMDP, and heck Murray can trouble/beat/humiliate Nadal on hard courts. Safin would do a demolition job. Again, I don't see Safin beating Nadal and Djokovic 10/10 times on hard or indoor. However I do believe if both players stepped on the court and play to their best ability. Safin wins hands down.




Nah, you're right. Djokovic and Nadal would caine Safin. Just like prime Federer did and Sampras did, right?

Thanks for explaining, that's exactly how I think about those match ups:)

But I would argue that in 2000, 2005 finals Safin faced prime Sampras, Fed. Prime Fed wouldn't blow a lead in that 4th set tie-break, and 1999-Summer-Sampras was certainly much better than the one who showed against Marat in US final.

To Nadal lovers you can explain that prime Safin
would treat Nadal like Del Potro did in US Semi. Just too much power for Rafa.
 

Xemi666

Professional
Apparently you don't know tennis. And the poster above you didn't say Safin dominated the tour at any given time. If you believe Djokovic or Nadal would beat Safin on a hard court if they were both in form then I question whether you have actually watched any Safin matches on hard courts. probably some Nadal lover who hasn't watched any player outside of Nadal. Given your posts, that's what you sound like.




From a matchup perspective, Djokovic wouldn't stand a chance. He can't hurt Safin from the baseline, they both take the ball early on the rise however Safin when focused can simply hit through you and be very consistent at the same time. Djokovic would score some wins if Safin turned up with the mentality he showed frequently throughout his career but he couldn't even take a set off Safin on grass! Please explain to me how Djokovic would go about winning three sets off Safin on a hardcourt. Nadal would get blown off the court if both are at their best. Even guys like Nalbandian, JMDP, and heck Murray can trouble/beat/humiliate Nadal on hard courts. Safin would do a demolition job. Again, I don't see Safin beating Nadal and Djokovic 10/10 times on hard or indoor. However I do believe if both players stepped on the court and play to their best ability. Safin wins hands down.




Nah, you're right. Djokovic and Nadal would caine Safin. Just like prime Federer did and Sampras did, right?

Yes, prime Federer did, that's why he has 9 slams on HC and Safin has 2 ;)

LMAO, am I going to have to birng up Safin's losses to mugs on HC, really? I don't care about your hypoteticals, I deal with facts. and the facts are that Nadal is equal or better on HC than Safin as their results indicate, as is Djokovic, and both haven't finished their careers yet.
 

glazkovss

Professional
Yes, prime Federer did, that's why he has 9 slams on HC and Safin has 2 ;)

LMAO, am I going to have to birng up Safin's losses to mugs on HC, really? I don't care about your hypoteticals, I deal with facts. and the facts are that Nadal is equal or better on HC than Safin as their results indicate, as is Djokovic, and both haven't finished their careers yet.

Man, can't you see that we compare THE BEST performances, not OVERALL records/results.
 
Safin, he beat prime Fed on Hardcourt a feat rarely accomplished. No offense to any Djokovic fans but he would get his ass handed to him by prime Fed on hardcourt
 
Gentleman, Marat finished in the top 10 a mere 3 times! For the last 4 years he was an also ran, diminished by lack of preparation and dedication.

Yes, at his best he was a megaforce, as the 2000 destruction of Pete demonstrated. But this career was on ture reflection a huge let down save for his Paris indoor record. Ochen zhal!
 

JimF

Rookie
People Forget Safin's Injuries

Gentleman, Marat finished in the top 10 a mere 3 times! For the last 4 years he was an also ran, diminished by lack of preparation and dedication.

Let's be fair. After Safin steam-rolled Sampras at the USOpen, Safin missed a full year with knee injuries, missed half a year with a shoulder injury, and early on had a serious back injury.

In another thread, people are saying it will take Del Potro another year to fully return to his old form after his wrist injury.

Imagine if you had to come back from injuries three times.
 

Xemi666

Professional
The results also indicate that Federer destroys Nadal on all surfaces, except clay (so far), correct?

We can't compare until their careers are over. Too bad for you Nadal's career isn't over :twisted: Nadal rapes Safin everywhere except on HC when they would be about even.
 

glazkovss

Professional
We can't compare until their careers are over. Too bad for you Nadal's career isn't over :twisted: Nadal rapes Safin everywhere except on HC when they would be about even.

Let's not get carried away too much, the topic is Safin 2005 AO vs Djokovic 2011 AO, it is clear from the original post.
 

JimF

Rookie
Djoko-Porshce in the Shop?

Safin was like an italian sports car, incredible for short periods but will overheat and self destruct before long. Djokovic is a porsche, very good all of the time.

So, for the first six months of last year, when Djokovic was hitting more double faults than aces, and started slowing his first serve down to 105 MPH to get some in, presumably his fuel injectors were clogged and he needed to have his engine dropped?

And when he retired from, what, a dozen matches because of the heat, the air cooling on his rear engine failed and Djoko over-heated?

Djoko is a great player, love watching him, but I couldn't resist tweaking the (inadvertently) accurate metaphor.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Back before Djokovic tricked the world by vulturing two generations of inept players everyone knew Safin played the better ball ;)
 
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