Djokovic vs Safin : Who is better?

Neptune

Hall of Fame
As far as I see it at the highest level Safin can play like a GOAT but Djokovic just plays like a lendl at his best. Djokovic and GOAT do not belong in the same sentence

Lendl says hello...

Peak​
vs Top5​
T5 Weight​
vs Top10​
T10 Weight​
vs T11+​
T11+ Weight​
vs All​
Opp Rank​
Opp Elo​
Nole 11-16​
91 (66-25) 72.53%​
19.08%​
174 (140-34) 80.46%​
36.48%​
303 (287-16) 94.72%​
63.52%​
477 (427-50) 89.52%​
18​
2086​
Fed 04-09
67 (44-23) 65.67%
13.59%
121 (91-30) 75.21%
24.54%
372 (351-21) 94.35%
75.46%
493 (442-51) 89.66%
26
2017
Rafa 08-13​
73 (47-26) 64.38%​
15.60%​
133 (93-40) 69.92%​
28.42%​
335 (313-22) 93.43%​
71.58%​
468 (406-62) 86.75%​
23​
2045​
Lendl 84-89
74 (52-22) 70.27%
15.81%
116 (83-33) 71.55%
24.79%
352 (333-19) 94.60%
75.21%
468 (416-52) 88.89%
27
2014
 

SonnyT

Legend
Nole 11-16 outperformed Fed 04-09 in T5 and T10, when there were Roger, Rafa, Andy and Stan in 11-16! Who were there in 04-09, besides not-yet-mature Rafa and Nole, Andy and Juan Martin?
 
Last edited:

Pheasant

Legend
Couple of things:

1. The key to true greatness is being great for long periods of time, not in small patches.

2. So what if people hype of guys like Safin and Soderling? Those guys did have massive spikes in play. However, it never lasted. And in Soderling’s case, he couldn’t even keep it going for an entire tourney. As for Safin, he could not go 1 month straight without crapping the bed. So why do people care about others saying these guys had amazing peaks? I don’t give a rip. If somebody said Soderling could peak higher than Fed on clay, then I wouldn’t give a rip. Maybe he could for a 1-2 match span. That match vs Nadal where he was bombing 140 mph serves and hitting 100+ mph FH accurately likely takes out any version of Fed on clay. That’s a cool story. But it doesn’t diminish Fed on the dirt(maybe top-15 ever on that surface). And Safin’s peak across a handful of matches was as good as anybody’s on hard court. Hell, I will even say that it was better than Pete’s and equal to Fed’s. That’s a good story. But there’s no reason for any of us to be insecure about it.

3. All 3 of the Big 3 have vastly inflated resumes compared to guys of the past for a lot of reasons. So each one of us fan bases should appreciate that instead of acting like only the others guys benefitted. They all benefitted immensely.

4. Why cry if somebody says their favorite player is better than yours? Seriously, does it make you shorter? Does it diminish your net worth? Lendl>Mac. That’s fine. I can still sleep at night. Djoker> Fed. Fine. Why the hell would I be upset about that? At the end of the day, the numbers have my guys falling short. And if I come out and say that McEnroe had the most dominant season ever(I honestly believe it; at least for a seasons that I’ve watched since the late-1970s), then why would people be upset about that? Can’t Mac have one tiny little victory here, when your guy wins the most important metrics ?
 

Pheasant

Legend
2011 Djoker’s level of play across the whole tourney was clearly better than 2005 Safin’s run. Let’s be real here. Safin needed 4 sets to beat Rochus. And he won all 3 tiebreaks in that match. He needed 4 to beat Ancic. Djoker’s QF, semi, and final was absolutely absurd. He won all 3 in straights, including a pair of breadsticks to Berdych in the QF, then beating defending champ Federer in the semi, then 2010 runner up Murray in the final.

The reason Safin’s 2005 AO run is talked about is because of 1 match; that semi vs Fed. That was arguably the best match that he played in his career. And it’s miles ahead of his 3rd best match(2000 USO final and 2005 AO semi are easily his two best matches).

Ok. I will play along and get to the real question here. It comes down to a sample size of 1 match, not the whole tourney. I will isolate this to the semi. So, it’s 2005 AO semi Safin vs 2011 AO semi Djokovic

Rebound Ace: 2005 AO semi Safin in 5
Plexicushion: 2011 AO semi Djoker in 4

QED.
 

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
And if I come out and say that McEnroe had the most dominant season ever(I honestly believe it; at least for a seasons that I’ve watched since the late-1970s), then why would people be upset about that? Can’t Mac have one tiny little victory here, when your guy wins the most important metrics ?
I do agree on that. Putting it into context of the era (meaning that only three slams were played), considering competition (strong versions of Connors, Lendl, Wilander around), and winning % as well as dominance in individual matches it is actually the best in the OE. The contender for me would be Djokovic 2011, but he disappeared after USO which makes it a little less impressive.
 

Pheasant

Legend
I do agree on that. Putting it into context of the era (meaning that only three slams were played), considering competition (strong versions of Connors, Lendl, Wilander around), and winning % as well as dominance in individual matches it is actually the best in the OE. The contender for me would be Djokovic 2011, but he disappeared after USO which makes it a little less impressive.
Yeah, not only was Mac beating Hall of Fame legends, but he was absolutely murdering them.

One stat guru posted % of points won. I need to find it. But it was something yo the effect that 1984 Mac win about the same percentage of points vs the top-20 as 2006 Fed won against players ranked outside the top-20. That is absolutely unthinkable. I will dig it up, since I am probably using some hyperbole there. But it was unreal
 

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
Yeah, not only was Mac beating Hall of Fame legends, but he was absolutely murdering them.

One stat guru posted % of points won. I need to find it. But it was something yo the effect that 1984 Mac win about the same percentage of points vs the top-20 as 2006 Fed won against players ranked outside the top-20. That is absolutely unthinkable. I will dig it up, since I am probably using some hyperbole there. But it was unreal
Had he won the FO final there would absolutely not be any discussion left. Even with that, it is still No.1 for me. Djoko going 10-1 against Fedal is absurd too, had he won YEC (even with the other losses), I would be inclined to give it to him.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Yeah, not only was Mac beating Hall of Fame legends, but he was absolutely murdering them.

One stat guru posted % of points won. I need to find it. But it was something yo the effect that 1984 Mac win about the same percentage of points vs the top-20 as 2006 Fed won against players ranked outside the top-20. That is absolutely unthinkable. I will dig it up, since I am probably using some hyperbole there. But it was unreal
His season is top 4 of all time along with 2015, 1969 and 2006.
 

Neptune

Hall of Fame
Yeah, not only was Mac beating Hall of Fame legends, but he was absolutely murdering them.

One stat guru posted % of points won. I need to find it. But it was something yo the effect that 1984 Mac win about the same percentage of points vs the top-20 as 2006 Fed won against players ranked outside the top-20. That is absolutely unthinkable. I will dig it up, since I am probably using some hyperbole there. But it was unreal

Best Season​
vs Top5​
T5 Weight​
vs Top10​
T10 Weight​
vs T11+​
T11+ Weight​
vs All​
Opp Rank​
Opp Elo​
Nole 2015​
20 (16-4) 80.00%​
22.73%​
36 (31-5) 86.11%​
40.91%​
52 (51-1) 98.08%​
59.09%​
88 (82-6) 93.18%​
18​
2091​
Nole 2011​
16 (13-3) 81.25%​
21.05%​
25 (21-4) 84.00%​
32.89%​
51 (49-2) 96.08%​
67.11%​
76 (70-6) 92.11%​
17​
2078​
Fed 2006​
12 (8-4) 66.67%​
12.37%​
23 (19-4) 82.61%​
23.71%​
74 (73-1) 98.65%​
76.29%​
97 (92-5) 94.85%​
28​
2004​
Mac 1984​
16 (15-1) 93.75%​
18.82%​
28 (26-2) 92.86%​
32.94%​
57 (56-1) 98.25%​
67.06%​
85 (82-3) 96.47%​
22​
2044​

Did not include the 1969 because ranking is off.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Best Season​
vs Top5​
T5 Weight​
vs Top10​
T10 Weight​
vs T11+​
T11+ Weight​
vs All​
Opp Rank​
Opp Elo​
Nole 2015​
20 (16-4) 80.00%​
22.73%​
36 (31-5) 86.11%​
40.91%​
52 (51-1) 98.08%​
59.09%​
88 (82-6) 93.18%​
18​
2091​
Nole 2011​
16 (13-3) 81.25%​
21.05%​
25 (21-4) 84.00%​
32.89%​
51 (49-2) 96.08%​
67.11%​
76 (70-6) 92.11%​
17​
2078​
Fed 2006​
12 (8-4) 66.67%​
12.37%​
23 (19-4) 82.61%​
23.71%​
74 (73-1) 98.65%​
76.29%​
97 (92-5) 94.85%​
28​
2004​
Mac 1984​
16 (15-1) 93.75%​
18.82%​
28 (26-2) 92.86%​
32.94%​
57 (56-1) 98.25%​
67.06%​
85 (82-3) 96.47%​
22​
2044​

Did not include the 1969 because ranking is off.
15-1

EYE POPPING
 

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
His season is top 4 of all time along with 2015, 1969 and 2006.
I personally value 2011 more than 2015 and 2006. Having to beat a fellow GOAT candidate at prime level in six finals is way more impressive than everything 2006 or 2015 has to offer competition wise. Give Fed 2006 or Djoko 2015 THAT Nadal and their seasons likely don’t look so good anymore.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
I personally value 2011 more than 2015 and 2006. Having to beat a fellow GOAT candidate at prime level in six finals is way more impressive than everything 2006 or 2015 has to offer competition wise. Give Fed 2006 or Djoko 2015 THAT Nadal and their seasons likely don’t look so good anymore.
Federer probably still wins 3 slams, probably doesn't win Miami though. Djokovic probably still wins 3 slams as well, maybe loses out in Rome?
 

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
Federer probably still wins 3 slams, probably doesn't win Miami though. Djokovic probably still wins 3 slams as well, maybe loses out in Rome?
We must not forget, that Fed in 2011 was also still very strong, stronger than in 2015 (apart from few tournaments). Djoko in 2015 USO could well lose to Fed 2011 and lose Rome to Nadal. AO and Wimbledon he wins regardless of course, but I don’t think he could go 10-1 against 2011 Fedal. 2006 Fed would likely still win three slams against 2011 Nadal and his future self, but would lose a couple more matches in Bo3.
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
I personally value 2011 more than 2015 and 2006. Having to beat a fellow GOAT candidate at prime level in six finals is way more impressive than everything 2006 or 2015 has to offer competition wise. Give Fed 2006 or Djoko 2015 THAT Nadal and their seasons likely don’t look so good anymore.
I don’t see either of 2006 Fed or 2015 Djokovic winning less than 3 Slams even if they squared up against 2011 Nadal. They were simply too good in the Slams they won (or in the case of AO, 2011 Nadal wasn’t in a position to threaten them).

They’d probably lose out on smaller tournaments like Miami and Djokovic would suffer a few losses in the clay court season. But otherwise, their losses wouldn’t be too terrible.
 

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
The marti
I don’t see either of 2006 Fed or 2015 Djokovic winning less than 3 Slams even if they squared up against 2011 Nadal. They were simply too good in the Slams they won (or in the case of AO, 2011 Nadal wasn’t in a position to threaten them).

They’d probably lose out on smaller tournaments like Miami and Djokovic would suffer a few losses in the clay court season. But otherwise, their losses wouldn’t be too terrible.
The margins between 2011, 2015, 2006 are thin as is. They can likely still win three slams but lose more at other tourneys which would push the edge in favour to 2011. I can’t see either 2006 Fed or 2015 Djoko going 6-0 against 2011 Nadal. An upset is also always possible at one of USO, Wimbledon.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
We must not forget, that Fed in 2011 was also still very strong, stronger than in 2015 (apart from few tournaments). Djoko in 2015 USO could well lose to Fed 2011 and lose Rome to Nadal. AO and Wimbledon he wins regardless of course, but I don’t think he could go 10-1 against 2011 Fedal. 2006 Fed would likely still win three slams against 2011 Nadal and his future self, but would lose a couple more matches in Bo3.
I was just putting 2011 Nadal in for 2006'dal and 2011'dal in those respective years. Of course 2011 was a stronger year than either 2011 or 2015, significantly so.
 

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
I was just putting 2011 Nadal in for 2006'dal and 2011'dal in those respective years. Of course 2011 was a stronger year than either 2011 or 2015, significantly so.
Yeah switching only Nadal will maybe not make much difference slam-wise. He could upset both of them at USO though. What is your take on 2011vs2006vs2015 in terms of greatest season?
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Yeah switching only Nadal will maybe not make much difference slam-wise. He could upset both of them at USO though. What is your take on 2011vs2006vs2015 in terms of greatest season?
IMO Nadal is an underdog versus 2006 Fed at the USO, whichever year you pick for Nadal - particularly in 2006 conditions. By that point Federer had played Nadal a lot, so he wouldn't be surprised by Nadal's physicality and the shape he puts on the ball, and he was also very stable on the backhand wing, I just think he has too much game at the USO to lose. Versus Djokovic I also think Nadal is the underdog, compared to in 2011 Novak 2015 had less physicality for those long bruising rallies but his serve was waaay better and I think over five sets he'd be a little too strong for Nadal.

I think overall 2006 Fed played the best tennis, followed by 2011 Djokovic and then 2015 Djokovic, in terms of achievements I think Djokovic in 2015 achieved the most, then 2006 then 2011. The caveat to the latter being that Fed in 2006 played BO5 masters finals and extra rounds at masters - so going deep in every masters was a little different. In terms of intangibles probably 2011 is at the top because of the competition that year and the 10-1 record against Fedal, the unbeaten streak etc...I lean towards 2006 but that's probably mostly my bias talking :laughing:
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
The marti

The margins between 2011, 2015, 2006 are thin as is. They can likely still win three slams but lose more at other tourneys which would push the edge in favour to 2011. I can’t see either 2006 Fed or 2015 Djoko going 6-0 against 2011 Nadal. An upset is also always possible at one of USO, Wimbledon.
I think 2006 and 2015 can definitely lose to Nadal in Miami, and I think they’d also have some losses in the clay season (though I think Fed would actually improve on his original clay results because I believe he’d actually win Rome this time). But I don’t think they lose any of the Slams.

Nadal wasn’t super great in the 2011 W and US Open finals, especially the latter. I actually think 2011 Fed would pose a greater threat, especially to 2015 Djokovic.
 

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
I think 2006 and 2015 can definitely lose to Nadal in Miami, and I think they’d also have some losses in the clay season (though I think Fed would actually improve on his original clay results because I believe he’d actually win Rome this time). But I don’t think they lose any of the Slams.

Nadal wasn’t super great in the 2011 W and US Open finals, especially the latter. I actually think 2011 Fed would pose a greater threat, especially to 2015 Djokovic.
Oh don’t get me wrong. 2011 Nadal would of course be the underdog against both Fed and Djoker at both Wimbledon and USO, but he would I think be stronger than the opponents they faced in reality. Nadal played a **** USO final in 2011, but this was mostly due to his mental block against Djokovic at that time (never in any other match I have seen him so nervous, rattled, complaining to the umpire all the time, asking for the towel every second point etc.). The rest of the tournament he played quite well actually (only losing one set; in the semi to Murray) and against Fed, where he was always the underdog at the beginning, the mental aspects would be way different. I don’t give him more of a 30-40% winning chance though, but an upset is not impossible.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Oh don’t get me wrong. 2011 Nadal would of course be the underdog against both Fed and Djoker at both Wimbledon and USO, but he would I think be stronger than the opponents they faced in reality. Nadal played a **** USO final in 2011, but this was mostly due to his mental block against Djokovic at that time (never in any other match I have seen him so nervous, rattled, complaining to the umpire all the time, asking for the towel every second point etc.). The rest of the tournament he played quite well actually (only losing one set; in the semi to Murray) and against Fed, where he was always the underdog at the beginning, the mental aspects would be way different. I don’t give him more of a 30-40% winning chance though, but an upset is not impossible.
I'm not convinced 2011 Nadal was better than 2006 Nadal in the Wimbledon final. Better first set by a big margin, but a worse second set by a big margin and a worse third set as well IMO, mediocre fourth set in both matches as well.
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Oh don’t get me wrong. 2011 Nadal would of course be the underdog against both Fed and Djoker at both Wimbledon and USO, but he would I think be stronger than the opponents they faced in reality. Nadal played a **** USO final in 2011, but this was mostly due to his mental block against Djokovic at that time (never in any other match I have seen him so nervous, rattled, complaining to the umpire all the time, asking for the towel every second point etc.). The rest of the tournament he played quite well actually (only losing one set; in the semi to Murray) and against Fed, where he was always the underdog at the beginning, the mental aspects would be way different. I don’t give him more of a 30-40% winning chance though, but an upset is not impossible.
I agree in general, with the caveat that I actually think Nadal played a better Wimbledon final in 2006, even taking the dud opening set into consideration.
 

BauerAlmeida

Hall of Fame
2011 Djoker’s level of play across the whole tourney was clearly better than 2005 Safin’s run.

It was more consistent yeah, but peaks are perfectly comparable.


Let’s be real here. Safin needed 4 sets to beat Rochus. And he won all 3 tiebreaks in that match.

No shame in that, Rochus was a very talented player who was hampered by his height. He almost beats Federer in 2006 having a few match points when Federer lost only one match to non-Nadal players that year and it was a half-tank. That would have ended Federer's unbeaten run on grass that was alive since 2003.


He needed 4 to beat Ancic.

No shame in that either, Ancic was a great player and it was a 4-setter, not a 5-setter and all sets were won somewhat comfortably.

The reason Safin’s 2005 AO run is talked about is because of 1 match; that semi vs Fed. That was arguably the best match that he played in his career.

No. He was brilliant vs Hrbaty and Hewitt too. He was probably better vs Hewitt than he was vs Federer, so it wasn't the best match he played that run, let alone his career. I think as a match, that Safin-Federer is the best match ever, but as an individual performance vs Hewitt it was better. You are obviously going to find it easier to play your best against an inferior/non-peaking opponent than against an ATG playing his best.


And it’s miles ahead of his 3rd best match(2000 USO final and 2005 AO semi are easily his two best matches).

Not true at all. He has many matches comparable to the matches vs Sampras and Federer. The aforementioned against Hewitt at AO 2005, vs Ferrero USO 2000, vs Agassi AO 2004, vs Nalbandian Madrid 2005, vs Hewitt Paris 2002, etc
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
If you knew the meaning of the word overrated you would know that even if he won 10 slams he could still be overrated.
Had he won 20 slams he could still be underrated.

Anyway thread is about who's better, NOT who's more achieved
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
We must not forget, that Fed in 2011 was also still very strong, stronger than in 2015 (apart from few tournaments). Djoko in 2015 USO could well lose to Fed 2011 and lose Rome to Nadal. AO and Wimbledon he wins regardless of course, but I don’t think he could go 10-1 against 2011 Fedal. 2006 Fed would likely still win three slams against 2011 Nadal and his future self, but would lose a couple more matches in Bo3.

2011 is the Best Season as well as per Pete Sampras and he hailed Djokovic's 11-1 record vs Fed-dal from 2011 Aus Open till 2012 Aus Open.

Sampras said it and his word is second to none.

I consider him the highest authority on the GOAT debate bar none.

 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Simple. By actually watching the match to have great discernment about their level of play and quality of the game.

Looking at stats/box score alone doesn't say anything

Oh really, let's see about that.

1st Serve percentage
Djokovic 2011 - 68%
Safin 2005 - 58%

Service games won
Djokovic 2011 - 83/93 (broken 10 times)
Safin 2005 - 113/127 (broken 14 times)

Return points won
Djokovic 2011- 46%
Safin 2005 - 40.7%

Return games won
Djokovic 2011 - 44.3%
Safin 2005 - 26.6%

Points dominance
Djokovic 2011 - 1.49
Safn 2005 - 1.34

Games dominance
Djokovic 2011 - 4.12
Safin 2005 - 2.41

This is just more reinvention and failed eye tests in here as usual from some Federer fans, where the voice of reason once again is Pheasant since you and others don't have that ability. The same people that think Safin was at the highest level in this match, who won it by the skin of his teeth from match point down, are the same people who say Djokovic only won the 2011 USO match because of luck and Federer being old. Safin is being overrated in here. The only player more dominant at a Slam than Djokovic at AO is Nadal at RG, bar none. In my opinion, Agassi was the next dominant player at AO who won 4/9 he played and 3 in a row. Safin had a great run but it wouldn't even be in my top 5 of greatest AO runs.
 

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
Simple. By actually watching the match to have great discernment about their level of play and quality of the game.

Looking at stats/box score alone doesn't say anything
So who is the authority then to decide who was better? You? Eye-test is completely subjective and when it is against different players at different times it is completely useless anyways.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
It was more consistent yeah, but peaks are perfectly comparable.




No shame in that, Rochus was a very talented player who was hampered by his height. He almost beats Federer in 2006 having a few match points when Federer lost only one match to non-Nadal players that year and it was a half-tank. That would have ended Federer's unbeaten run on grass that was alive since 2003.




No shame in that either, Ancic was a great player and it was a 4-setter, not a 5-setter and all sets were won somewhat comfortably.



No. He was brilliant vs Hrbaty and Hewitt too. He was probably better vs Hewitt than he was vs Federer, so it wasn't the best match he played that run, let alone his career. I think as a match, that Safin-Federer is the best match ever, but as an individual performance vs Hewitt it was better. You are obviously going to find it easier to play your best against an inferior/non-peaking opponent than against an ATG playing his best.




Not true at all. He has many matches comparable to the matches vs Sampras and Federer. The aforementioned against Hewitt at AO 2005, vs Ferrero USO 2000, vs Agassi AO 2004, vs Nalbandian Madrid 2005, vs Hewitt Paris 2002, etc
Paris 2000 F versus Scud was another classic.
 

SonnyT

Legend
Best Season​
vs Top5​
T5 Weight​
vs Top10​
T10 Weight​
vs T11+​
T11+ Weight​
vs All​
Opp Rank​
Opp Elo​
Nole 2015​
20 (16-4) 80.00%​
22.73%​
36 (31-5) 86.11%​
40.91%​
52 (51-1) 98.08%​
59.09%​
88 (82-6) 93.18%​
18​
2091​
Nole 2011​
16 (13-3) 81.25%​
21.05%​
25 (21-4) 84.00%​
32.89%​
51 (49-2) 96.08%​
67.11%​
76 (70-6) 92.11%​
17​
2078​
Fed 2006​
12 (8-4) 66.67%​
12.37%​
23 (19-4) 82.61%​
23.71%​
74 (73-1) 98.65%​
76.29%​
97 (92-5) 94.85%​
28​
2004​
Mac 1984​
16 (15-1) 93.75%​
18.82%​
28 (26-2) 92.86%​
32.94%​
57 (56-1) 98.25%​
67.06%​
85 (82-3) 96.47%​
22​
2044​

Did not include the 1969 because ranking is off.
Compare 8-4 vs 16-4!!! And I didn't know there were other good players beside Federer in 2006!!!
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Oh really, let's see about that.

1st Serve percentage
Djokovic 2011 - 68%
Safin 2005 - 58%

Service games won
Djokovic 2011 - 83/93 (broken 10 times)
Safin 2005 - 113/127 (broken 14 times)

Return points won
Djokovic 2011- 46%
Safin 2005 - 40.7%

Return games won
Djokovic 2011 - 44.3%
Safin 2005 - 26.6%

Points dominance
Djokovic 2011 - 1.49
Safn 2005 - 1.34

Games dominance
Djokovic 2011 - 4.12
Safin 2005 - 2.41

This is just more reinvention and failed eye tests in here as usual from some Federer fans, where the voice of reason once again is Pheasant since you and others don't have that ability. The same people that think Safin was at the highest level in this match, who won it by the skin of his teeth from match point down, are the same people who say Djokovic only won the 2011 USO match because of luck and Federer being old. Safin is being overrated in here. The only player more dominant at a Slam than Djokovic at AO is Nadal at RG, bar none. In my opinion, Agassi was the next dominant player at AO who won 4/9 he played and 3 in a row. Safin had a great run but it wouldn't even be in my top 5 of greatest AO runs.
10 match series 9-1 Djokovic?
 

SonnyT

Legend
If faced with Djokovic's opposition, for instance ranking of 17-18, Federer's T10 would drop to 75%, and T5 to 60%!

The only explanation that Djokovic's opposition was higher ranked than Federer's was that, in general, Djokovic advanced further toward the final than Federer! And Federer, in all of tennis, advanced the third furthest! The only ones who advanced further were Borg and Djokovic.
 
Last edited:

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Oh really, let's see about that.

1st Serve percentage
Djokovic 2011 - 68%
Safin 2005 - 58%

Service games won
Djokovic 2011 - 83/93 (broken 10 times)
Safin 2005 - 113/127 (broken 14 times)

Return points won
Djokovic 2011- 46%
Safin 2005 - 40.7%

Return games won
Djokovic 2011 - 44.3%
Safin 2005 - 26.6%

Points dominance
Djokovic 2011 - 1.49
Safn 2005 - 1.34

Games dominance
Djokovic 2011 - 4.12
Safin 2005 - 2.41

This is just more reinvention and failed eye tests in here as usual from some Federer fans, where the voice of reason once again is Pheasant since you and others don't have that ability. The same people that think Safin was at the highest level in this match, who won it by the skin of his teeth from match point down, are the same people who say Djokovic only won the 2011 USO match because of luck and Federer being old. Safin is being overrated in here. The only player more dominant at a Slam than Djokovic at AO is Nadal at RG, bar none. In my opinion, Agassi was the next dominant player at AO who won 4/9 he played and 3 in a row. Safin had a great run but it wouldn't even be in my top 5 of greatest AO runs.

LOL
Djoker fans only start watching tennis in 2011 are vastly inferior in knowledge and have no clue about tennis in 2005. I bet you guys still don't know AO was played on Rebound Ace, not Plexicushion today. And Djokovic never won on Rebound Ace! You guys have no discernment.

Let say a player A watch a full tennis match but doesn't have a stats in his hand. A player B didn't watch the match but has all the stats in his hand. Who has greater depth of knowledge and understanding of the game? Of course its the player A, he has more insight in his pinky than the entire group of fans that never watched the match !

Without watching tennis, you have no idea how good Sampras's running forehand, Fed inside-out forehand, McEnroe's volley, Karlovic 1st serve, Agassi hitting on the rise, etc..

Please...refrain your nonsense about stats is all that matter when in reality, it's has NOTHING over actually seeing the match.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
So who is the authority then to decide who was better? You? Eye-test is completely subjective and when it is against different players at different times it is completely useless anyways.

That's not the point. read post above.

It's about watching tennis live vs. looking at the box score. Anyone in his/her right mind will tell you that the former has better perception on the order of 10! If you disagree, that your opinion
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
LOL
Djoker fans only start watching tennis in 2011 are vastly inferior in knowledge and have no clue about tennis in 2005. I bet you guys still don't know AO was played on Rebound Ace, not Plexicushion today. And Djokovic never won on Rebound Ace! You guys have no discernment.

Let say a player A watch a full tennis match but doesn't have a stats in his hand. A player B didn't watch the match but has all the stats in his hand. Who has greater depth of knowledge and understanding of the game? Of course its the player A, he has more insight in his pinky than the entire group of fans that never watched the match !

Without watching tennis, you have no idea how good Sampras's running forehand, Fed inside-out forehand, McEnroe's volley, Karlovic 1st serve, Agassi hitting on the rise, etc..

Please...refrain your nonsense about stats is all that matter when in reality, it's has NOTHING over actually seeing the match.
I watched Sampras and Agassi play in their primes. The question is, did you? Once again, you have nothing substantial to add to a discussion. Just more blanket statements like because I'm a Djokovic fan, I didn't start watching tennis until 2011 (which is a huge laugh and bogus); or that he never won on RA and imply he couldn't, which is actually false since he won Vienna in 2007, which is played on what hardcourt surface Mr. "tennis scholar"? Like RA would have been a thorn in his side when he's won on every surface and condition available.

You will stick to eye test and subjective arguments and steer clear of actual objective stats because they tell a story you don't want to believe. The likes of you will say anything to make Federer's rivals seem more superior than Djokovic's, and when that's not enough you will go even as far to even say they are superior to Djokovic himself.
 
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