Djokovic vs Soderling - who is the greater clay court player

Djok vs Sod - who is the greater claycourter?


  • Total voters
    49
  • Poll closed .

okdude1992

Hall of Fame
Djokovic, clearly. He's been more consistent, and I feel like he will win RG eventually. But Soderling was pretty impressive in making 2 finals as well.
 

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic, clearly. He's been more consistent, and I feel like he will win RG eventually. But Soderling was pretty impressive in making 2 finals as well.

We are talking now. But, if Nole gets to at least one more RG final, he has the edge for me.

Because where Soderling has the edge is that he beat prime Fedal on his way to finals. Nobody else wasn't able to beat Rafa there. So, this is quite big.
 

booson

Professional
Soderling beat Rafa because it was Rafa's detox year and because of the french. Bloody french people with their surprise doping controls!
 
S

Sirius Black

Guest
It's ridiculous that someone is actually trying to justify Soderling being a greater clay court player than Nole...
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
We are talking now. But, if Nole gets to at least one more RG final, he has the edge for me.

Because where Soderling has the edge is that he beat prime Fedal on his way to finals. Nobody else wasn't able to beat Rafa there. So, this is quite big.

The question was about clay achievements in general, not just RG jg. :wink:
 

jhhachamp

Hall of Fame
Djokovic has reached 2 finals, 4 semi-finals and 1 quarter-final at RG(80%W-L).

Soderling has reached 2 finals and 1 quarter-final(70% W-L).

Djokovic has also won 5 Masters 1000 on clay as well as 4 finals.

Soderling has never reached the semi-finals of a clay Masters 1000, let alone a final.

So who do you think is the greater clay court player?

Djokovic but this is a bad and pointless thread. There is no need to create such a ridiculous thread simply because one crazy poster suggested Soderling is as good as Djokovic. All you needed to do was reply to that poster directly with this post in the thread he posted in...
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
@Djokovic2011, this.

If this topic were about Wimbledon that would make more sense but there are 3 Masters 1000s on clay not to mention a couple of 500s too. Therefore a player's success at RG shouldn't be the sole barometer for how great they are as a clay courter in general.
 

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
If this topic were about Wimbledon that would make more sense but there are 3 Masters 1000s on clay not to mention a couple of 500s too. Therefore a player's success at RG shouldn't be the sole barometer for how great they are as a clay courter in general.

It's not. We give credit for Nole's consistency. But Soderling has two amazing wins at RG, which cancels Nole's consistency on clay.

Yes 3 masters, but Soderling beating prime Fed and prime Rafa is worth 3 masters.

Nobody was able to beat Rafa at RG. This is huge.

Also this poll is flawed. Where is they are equals option?
 
Last edited:

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
It's not. We give credit for Nole's consistency. But Soderling has two amazing wins at RG, which cancels Nole's consistency on clay.

Yes 3 masters, but Soderling beating prime Fed and prime Rafa is worth 3 masters.

Nobody was able to beat Rafa at RG. This is huge.

Where was it written in stone that two wins over Fedal is worth 3 Masters? :confused: If you're trolling me then you're a naughty boy jg.

And beating Nadal is great but it's overall results I'm talking about here otherwise you can't argue with those who consider Nadal greater than Federer just because of 23-10 even though Fed's overall career results are better.
 

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
Where was it written in stone that two wins over Fedal is worth 3 Masters? :confused: If you're trolling me then you're a naughty boy jg.

And beating Nadal is great but it's overall results I'm talking about here otherwise you can't argue with those who would consider Nadal greater than Federer just because of 23-10 even though Fed's overall career results are better.

It's not written in stone. That is just my opinion. No trolling this time :).

Also your example has nothing to do with this case, it's a bad one.

The thing is we remember players by slams. And Soderling will always be remembered by beating Rafa at RG. Nobody will remember Nole having 3 masters, if Nole doesn't win RG or make more finals.

So, that stuff is part of greatness and Soderling is equally great on clay for me. For now. Or even if Nole is better, it's still very close. Nole needed for Fed and Rafa to decline on clay to make a dent. Soderling did it when they were in their prime.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
It's not written in stone. That is just my opinion. No trolling this time :).

Also your example has nothing to do with this case, it's a bad one.

The thing is we remember players by slams. And Soderling will always be remembered by beating Rafa at RG. Nobody will remember Nole having 3 masters, if Nole doesn't win RG or make more finals.

So, that stuff is part of greatness and Soderling is equally great on clay for me. For now. Or even if Nole is better, it's still very close. Nole needed for Fed and Rafa to decline on clay to make a dent. Soderling did it when they were in their prime.

I thought Federer's prime ended at the 2010 AO in which case didn't Soderling also beat a past his prime Fed at RG that year? :?

And Nadal has still played some superb clay court tennis in recent years and is still winning the French every year so I don't see how you can think he's past prime either.
 

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
I thought Federer's prime ended at the 2010 AO in which case didn't Soderling also beat a past his prime Fed at RG that year? :?

And Nadal has still played some superb clay court tennis in recent years and is still winning the French every year so I don't see how you can think he's past prime either.

Prime is non-linear. It depends on surfaces too. Vs lower guys slower surfaces actually help Federer. Vs top guys, faster surfaces help him. He said it.

So, it was tough for Soderling to beat him in 2010. He also snapped Fed's streak of semis. Fed was holding AO at the time and was still nr.1. So, he was still in his prime. Prime/decline isn't an exact date. It's non-linear and gradual.

Then it's on different surfaces. Fed needed longer to mature on clay, so his prime started at later time and ended at later time on clay. Also it's different for different people. On slower surfaces Federer is declining slower vs lower guys. Because he can still use surface speed to compensate for his speed. He has time. But vs top guys he declines faster on slower surfaces. Relative to top guys, since they will out grind him.

Also Soderling is the same age, so he declined too at similar age, so no excuses. Nole had past prime Fed and Rafa at RG, still couldn't beat them.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
That is weak man, even for you:). Grasping for straws.

If you need to make that kind of arguments, this proves Djokovic doesn't have a strong case.

Why? You said "Nole had past prime Fed and Nadal at RG and he couldn't beat them" and yet he did beat Fed in 2012 so why am I grasping? :-?
 

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
Why? You said "Nole had past prime Fed and Nadal at RG and he couldn't beat them" and yet he did beat Fed in 2012 so why am I grasping? :-?

No, he couldn't beat prime Fed and prime Rafa. Soderling did it. Not just beating them, he owned them. Matches weren't even close, it was in four sets.

Although I can't believe Fed lost it after winning the first set. He also had set points in the third I think.

Fed loses focus when he gets ahead, seeing himself as a winner too soon sometimes.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
No, he couldn't beat prime Fed and prime Rafa. Soderling did it. Not just beating them, he owned them. Matches weren't even close, it was in four sets.

Although I can't believe Fed lost it after winning the first set. He also had set points in the third I think.

Fed loses focus when he gets ahead, seeing himself as a winner too soon sometimes.

But you didn't say "prime" in your post, you said "past prime" which obviously isn't true so you were wrong and I was right.
 

ultradr

Legend
The greatest challenge made to Nadal on clay was Djokovic and Federer.

Both of them are unlucky to be in same era with Nadal.
 

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
But you didn't say "prime" in your post, you said "past prime" which obviously isn't true so you were wrong and I was right.

So you don't admit Fed was in clay prime in 2010 and not in 2012?

Or at least Federer was a lot closer to his prime in 2010 than in 2012.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
So you don't admit Fed was in clay prime in 2010 and not in 2012?

Or at least Federer was a lot closer to his prime in 2010 than in 2012.

No, because a player's prime isn't always linear. Don't forget Fed went back to #1 just a month after his 2012 RG defeat.
 

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
No because a player's prime isn't always linear. Don't forget Fed went back to #1 just a month after his 2012 RG defeat.

But nr.1 is not related to clay. He wasn't nr.1 based on his clay success. We are talking clay. Also his nr.1 was mostly based on what he did in 2011 after USO. Rankings don't reflect current form.

Also Fed defeated Nole in 2011, then one year later he lost in straight sets? How do you explain that if not a huge decline? And Nole was better in 2011 too.

Fed was defending champ at RG 10. He was nr.1 and that was based on his 09 clay results. Was in great clay form. Fed had a streak of 23 semis going and was holding 3 slams at the time. How don't you see the difference here?

Bottom line is that Soderling has two great wins over Djokovic by defeating prime Fedal. Djokovic has 3 masters over him. So, it evens out for me. Because in 2009/10 Rafa and Fed also had aura of invincibility. Both were defending champs on clay and multiple finalists. Nobody was able to beat them at the time. What Soderling did is impressive and I don't see why you can't give him credit.
 

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
^^^ Nole has won 5 Masters on clay jg, not 3. :wink:

I see. Ok, then this is a bit different. You people are really obsessed with less important stats.

But anyway, ok if it's 5 masters, then I have to give tiny edge to Nole. Now go celebrate. Drinks are on you from now on, deal?

But if you pay me a small fee, I can admit anything you want about any player.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
I see. Ok, then this is a bit different. You people are really obsessed with less important stats.

But anyway, ok if it's 5 masters, then I have to give tiny edge to Nole. Now go celebrate. Drinks are on you from now on, deal?

But if you pay me a small fee, I can admit anything you want about any player.

"A tiny edge to Nole"?! :shock: Did you not read my OP jg? :-?
 

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
"A tiny edge to Nole"?! :shock: Did you not read my OP jg? :-?

No, I didn't. Should I have?

Yeah, tiny edge. They both get 2 points for finals. But Soderling gets 2 extra points for Fed and Rafa wins. So 4-2 for Soderling.

Then Djokovic gets 3 extra points for his five masters wins. So it's 5-4 for Nole.

That is tiny edge for me.
 

Chico

Banned
No, I didn't. Should I have?

Yeah, tiny edge. They both get 2 points for finals. But Soderling gets 2 extra points for Fed and Rafa wins. So 4-2 for Soderling.

Then Djokovic gets 3 extra points for his five masters wins. So it's 5-4 for Nole.

That is tiny edge for me.

Djokovic2011 why do you create ridiculous threads like this and persist in bumping it? And why do you feed trolls like this ridiculous one?

See what you did. You just give them a very nice opportunity to troll, undermine Djokovic and make him much lesser player than he is, by comparing him to mugs like Soderling instead talking about Djokovic as legitimate tier 1 all time great which he will be by the end of his career.

Why do you do this? Are you Novak's fan or not? Why do you want to drag Novak though mud like this then?

PLEASE STOP ALREADY!!!!!!!
 

-snake-

Hall of Fame
Djokovic2011 why do you create ridiculous threads like this and persist in bumping it? And why do you feed trolls like this ridiculous one?

See what you did. You just give them a very nice opportunity to troll, undermine Djokovic and make him much lesser player than he is, by comparing him to mugs like Soderling instead talking about Djokovic as legitimate tier 1 all time great which he will be by the end of his career.

Why do you do this? Are you Novak's fan or not? Why do you want to drag Novak though mud like this then?

PLEASE STOP ALREADY!!!!!!!


Hilarious sh1t mate, are you for real?
 

BVSlam

Professional
I've grown to appreciate him as a very funny poster.

Anyway, I guess the one who actually claimed they're equal did that because Soderling is still the only one ever to defeat Nadal in a best-of-5 clay match (just typing that feels ridiculous, what an amazing record). However, it's pretty obvious dat Djokovic is the much greater clay court player. Soderling just played well at Roland Garros for three years because of confidence probably. Not a great clay court player beyond that. Djokovic's game suits clay a lot more with his great defense and movement.

Also, let's be honest, Nadal clearly couldn't play his best in that 2009 match. Amazing that Soderling finished the match, but Nadal simply couldn't get any depth on his shots. Djokovic would definitely have defeated that Nadal too.
 

D.Nalby12

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic2011 why do you create ridiculous threads like this and persist in bumping it? And why do you feed trolls like this ridiculous one?

See what you did. You just give them a very nice opportunity to troll, undermine Djokovic and make him much lesser player than he is, by comparing him to mugs like Soderling instead talking about Djokovic as legitimate tier 1 all time great which he will be by the end of his career.

Why do you do this? Are you Novak's fan or not? Why do you want to drag Novak though mud like this then?

PLEASE STOP ALREADY!!!!!!!

This poast made me laugh my arse off! :lol:
 

D.Nalby12

G.O.A.T.
I've grown to appreciate him as a very funny poster.

Anyway, I guess the one who actually claimed they're equal did that because Soderling is still the only one ever to defeat Nadal in a best-of-5 clay match (just typing that feels ridiculous, what an amazing record). However, it's pretty obvious dat Djokovic is the much greater clay court player. Soderling just played well at Roland Garros for three years because of confidence probably. Not a great clay court player beyond that. Djokovic's game suits clay a lot more with his great defense and movement.

Also, let's be honest, Nadal clearly couldn't play his best in that 2009 match. Amazing that Soderling finished the match, but Nadal simply couldn't get any depth on his shots. Djokovic would definitely have defeated that Nadal too.

Nobody has claimed that. This guy's insecurity level is from another planet.

Me and one poster just said their peak performances on clay are comparable. In fact I gave slight edge to Sod in terms of peak level of play.

Second point was about whether Djokovic belongs to same tier of Sod. in terms of clay achievements. I believe they certainly belongs because their performance at Clay slam almost identical with slight edge to Djokovic for his consistency and Masters titles.

This was enough for insecure troll to open new thread claiming I said they are equal.

Who's gonna explain this little troll that two players belongs to same tier not necessarily means they are equal in achievements?

You can try, I explained hundreds of times but this guy seems to be deluded beyond belief.
 
Troll thread. Obviously it's the one who looks and is named after an amphibian and who achieved the holy grail of modern tennis.
/Thread.
 
Last edited:

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic2011 why do you create ridiculous threads like this and persist in bumping it? And why do you feed trolls like this ridiculous one?

See what you did. You just give them a very nice opportunity to troll, undermine Djokovic and make him much lesser player than he is, by comparing him to mugs like Soderling instead talking about Djokovic as legitimate tier 1 all time great which he will be by the end of his career.

Why do you do this? Are you Novak's fan or not? Why do you want to drag Novak though mud like this then?

PLEASE STOP ALREADY!!!!!!!

Nobody is putting down Djokovic. We are talking clay here and Nole is no tier 1 on clay. Heck even Federer is not tier 1 on clay, not even close.
 

tipsa...don'tlikehim!

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic2011 why do you create ridiculous threads like this and persist in bumping it? And why do you feed trolls like this ridiculous one?

See what you did. You just give them a very nice opportunity to troll, undermine Djokovic and make him much lesser player than he is, by comparing him to mugs like Soderling instead talking about Djokovic as legitimate tier 1 all time great which he will be by the end of his career.

Why do you do this? Are you Novak's fan or not? Why do you want to drag Novak though mud like this then?

PLEASE STOP ALREADY!!!!!!!

This is a funny post but I understand Chico's reaction.
Djokovic2011 its time to take responsability of your actions. First reply of the thread i wrote "not sure if serious". And you replied "this thread was a reponses to Nalby12's post in another thread", so admit it from the start it was a trolling thread, so don't expect serious votes and answers.

Now you got 9 votes for Soderling and of course most of them are just troll votes. But I bet a part of you feels great because you see Djokovic is leading 37-9 :lol: if that's the case, well no further comment...

The icing on the cake is when you wrote to jg153040:
If you're trolling me then you're a naughty boy jg.
But it was a trolling thread from the start!?
 
Top