okdude1992
Hall of Fame
Djokovic, clearly. He's been more consistent, and I feel like he will win RG eventually. But Soderling was pretty impressive in making 2 finals as well.
Djokovic, clearly. He's been more consistent, and I feel like he will win RG eventually. But Soderling was pretty impressive in making 2 finals as well.
We are talking now. But, if Nole gets to at least one more RG final, he has the edge for me.
Because where Soderling has the edge is that he beat prime Fedal on his way to finals. Nobody else wasn't able to beat Rafa there. So, this is quite big.
Djokovic has reached 2 finals, 4 semi-finals and 1 quarter-final at RG(80%W-L).
Soderling has reached 2 finals and 1 quarter-final(70% W-L).
Djokovic has also won 5 Masters 1000 on clay as well as 4 finals.
Soderling has never reached the semi-finals of a clay Masters 1000, let alone a final.
So who do you think is the greater clay court player?
The question was about clay achievements in general, not just RG jg. :wink:
Don't add fuel to the fire after it seems to have just died down.
The question was about clay achievements in general, not just RG jg. :wink:
But RG is the pinnacle of clay. Nole is more consistent on clay, but Soderling has two great quality wins at RG.
So, this cancels itself out.
But RG is the pinnacle of clay. Nole is more consistent on clay, but Soderling has two great quality wins at RG.
So, this cancels itself out.
@Djokovic2011, this.
If this topic were about Wimbledon that would make more sense but there are 3 Masters 1000s on clay not to mention a couple of 500s too. Therefore a player's success at RG shouldn't be the sole barometer for how great they are as a clay courter in general.
It's not. We give credit for Nole's consistency. But Soderling has two amazing wins at RG, which cancels Nole's consistency on clay.
Yes 3 masters, but Soderling beating prime Fed and prime Rafa is worth 3 masters.
Nobody was able to beat Rafa at RG. This is huge.
Where was it written in stone that two wins over Fedal is worth 3 Masters?If you're trolling me then you're a naughty boy jg.
And beating Nadal is great but it's overall results I'm talking about here otherwise you can't argue with those who would consider Nadal greater than Federer just because of 23-10 even though Fed's overall career results are better.
It's not written in stone. That is just my opinion. No trolling this time.
Also your example has nothing to do with this case, it's a bad one.
The thing is we remember players by slams. And Soderling will always be remembered by beating Rafa at RG. Nobody will remember Nole having 3 masters, if Nole doesn't win RG or make more finals.
So, that stuff is part of greatness and Soderling is equally great on clay for me. For now. Or even if Nole is better, it's still very close. Nole needed for Fed and Rafa to decline on clay to make a dent. Soderling did it when they were in their prime.
I thought Federer's prime ended at the 2010 AO in which case didn't Soderling also beat a past his prime Fed at RG that year? :?
And Nadal has still played some superb clay court tennis in recent years and is still winning the French every year so I don't see how you can think he's past prime either.
^^^ Nole has beaten Fed at RG jg.
That is weak man, even for you. Grasping for straws.
If you need to make that kind of arguments, this proves Djokovic doesn't have a strong case.
Why? You said "Nole had past prime Fed and Nadal at RG and he couldn't beat them" and yet he did beat Fed in 2012 so why am I grasping? :-?
No, he couldn't beat prime Fed and prime Rafa. Soderling did it. Not just beating them, he owned them. Matches weren't even close, it was in four sets.
Although I can't believe Fed lost it after winning the first set. He also had set points in the third I think.
Fed loses focus when he gets ahead, seeing himself as a winner too soon sometimes.
But you didn't say "prime" in your post, you said "past prime" which obviously isn't true so you were wrong and I was right.
So you don't admit Fed was in clay prime in 2010 and not in 2012?
Or at least Federer was a lot closer to his prime in 2010 than in 2012.
No because a player's prime isn't always linear. Don't forget Fed went back to #1 just a month after his 2012 RG defeat.
^^^ Nole has won 5 Masters on clay jg, not 3. :wink:
I see. Ok, then this is a bit different. You people are really obsessed with less important stats.
But anyway, ok if it's 5 masters, then I have to give tiny edge to Nole. Now go celebrate. Drinks are on you from now on, deal?
But if you pay me a small fee, I can admit anything you want about any player.
@Djokovic2011, this.
"A tiny edge to Nole"?! :shock: Did you not read my OP jg? :-?
No, I didn't. Should I have?
Yeah, tiny edge. They both get 2 points for finals. But Soderling gets 2 extra points for Fed and Rafa wins. So 4-2 for Soderling.
Then Djokovic gets 3 extra points for his five masters wins. So it's 5-4 for Nole.
That is tiny edge for me.
Djokovic2011 why do you create ridiculous threads like this and persist in bumping it? And why do you feed trolls like this ridiculous one?
See what you did. You just give them a very nice opportunity to troll, undermine Djokovic and make him much lesser player than he is, by comparing him to mugs like Soderling instead talking about Djokovic as legitimate tier 1 all time great which he will be by the end of his career.
Why do you do this? Are you Novak's fan or not? Why do you want to drag Novak though mud like this then?
PLEASE STOP ALREADY!!!!!!!
Djokovic2011 why do you create ridiculous threads like this and persist in bumping it? And why do you feed trolls like this ridiculous one?
See what you did. You just give them a very nice opportunity to troll, undermine Djokovic and make him much lesser player than he is, by comparing him to mugs like Soderling instead talking about Djokovic as legitimate tier 1 all time great which he will be by the end of his career.
Why do you do this? Are you Novak's fan or not? Why do you want to drag Novak though mud like this then?
PLEASE STOP ALREADY!!!!!!!
I've grown to appreciate him as a very funny poster.
Anyway, I guess the one who actually claimed they're equal did that because Soderling is still the only one ever to defeat Nadal in a best-of-5 clay match (just typing that feels ridiculous, what an amazing record). However, it's pretty obvious dat Djokovic is the much greater clay court player. Soderling just played well at Roland Garros for three years because of confidence probably. Not a great clay court player beyond that. Djokovic's game suits clay a lot more with his great defense and movement.
Also, let's be honest, Nadal clearly couldn't play his best in that 2009 match. Amazing that Soderling finished the match, but Nadal simply couldn't get any depth on his shots. Djokovic would definitely have defeated that Nadal too.
Djokovic2011 why do you create ridiculous threads like this and persist in bumping it? And why do you feed trolls like this ridiculous one?
See what you did. You just give them a very nice opportunity to troll, undermine Djokovic and make him much lesser player than he is, by comparing him to mugs like Soderling instead talking about Djokovic as legitimate tier 1 all time great which he will be by the end of his career.
Why do you do this? Are you Novak's fan or not? Why do you want to drag Novak though mud like this then?
PLEASE STOP ALREADY!!!!!!!
Djokovic2011 why do you create ridiculous threads like this and persist in bumping it? And why do you feed trolls like this ridiculous one?
See what you did. You just give them a very nice opportunity to troll, undermine Djokovic and make him much lesser player than he is, by comparing him to mugs like Soderling instead talking about Djokovic as legitimate tier 1 all time great which he will be by the end of his career.
Why do you do this? Are you Novak's fan or not? Why do you want to drag Novak though mud like this then?
PLEASE STOP ALREADY!!!!!!!
But it was a trolling thread from the start!?If you're trolling me then you're a naughty boy jg.