Djokovic will never be #1
- Thread starter raiden031
- Start date
purple-n-gold
Hall of Fame
Agreed!!!!
WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis
Hall of Fame
After all and all, I really can't believe he actually quit in a Grand Slam again. Lot of talk before, and some excuses, and chest pounding, but...I mean seriously, he doesn't seem to have the all-consuming drive that makes Nadal the player he is, not really the genius flow that Federer sustained for so long unparalelled (and is flashing again for us). I would like to hear the press conference or read his explanation for this one, but his flashy car is really dented this time.
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
I'm not as brutal as you guys; I for one don't care if someone 'plays out' a match they can't win. From what I read, he had no shot to come back against Roddick - he was physically whipped.
Having said that he really needs to rethink his training regiment. I read that he allegedly trained in the mountains in EU in Dec - but saw clips of him at a bunch of charity parties. Maybe some high temperature training is in order next year. As Brad Gilbert pointed out, complaining about 1.5 days off after a long night match at a major is lame - if there were rain in Paris or NYC you could end up playing two straight days.
As far as the #1 thing: he is finding out how hard it is to defend those points - which makes with Fed and Rafa do all the more remarkable.
Having said that he really needs to rethink his training regiment. I read that he allegedly trained in the mountains in EU in Dec - but saw clips of him at a bunch of charity parties. Maybe some high temperature training is in order next year. As Brad Gilbert pointed out, complaining about 1.5 days off after a long night match at a major is lame - if there were rain in Paris or NYC you could end up playing two straight days.
As far as the #1 thing: he is finding out how hard it is to defend those points - which makes with Fed and Rafa do all the more remarkable.
grafrules
Banned
I agree he will never No. 1. He will never be ranked over Nadal, and I am now more convined Murray will be the better player long term. Gulbis and Cilic have the potential to better than him in the future, and despite his embarassing performance today so does Del Potro. Federer will be around near the top for a few more years, and by the time Djokovic passes him in the rankings (if he ever does before Federer retires that is) there will be new players we havent even heard of starting to emerge, and the aforementioned could already be up there as well. Who knows, he might ever never be ranked #2.
He is overrated, plain and simple. His dominance last winter on hard courts was with no competition: Federer in a major slump, Nadal not yet the player he is now on hard courts, Murray not a contender yet. Tsonga was in his first slam final in Australia and was subpar relative to his form that fortnight as a result or else he wins. Tsonga proved by beating Djokovic 3 times in a row the rest of the year he had the game to beat Djokovic, simply was too nervous that day.
His win at the ATP Championships final was even luckier though, probably the luckiest winner in the history of that event. Davydenko choking bigtime in their RR match otherwise he would have been eliminated. Simon choking and getting an unlucky and untimely neck injury in the semis which helped cost him the match. Federer injured and going out in the RR due to his injury. Murray foolishly exhausting himself to win a meaningless RR match with an injured Federer and thus losing in the semis due to being exhausted. Nadal out of the event with injury. Djokovic played a great final and deserved to win that match but shouldnt have ever been there in the first place.
He doesnt have the mentality, heart, or game of a #1. He has a really good game but not that of a #1 player, and the other elements of a #1 player are not there either.
He is overrated, plain and simple. His dominance last winter on hard courts was with no competition: Federer in a major slump, Nadal not yet the player he is now on hard courts, Murray not a contender yet. Tsonga was in his first slam final in Australia and was subpar relative to his form that fortnight as a result or else he wins. Tsonga proved by beating Djokovic 3 times in a row the rest of the year he had the game to beat Djokovic, simply was too nervous that day.
His win at the ATP Championships final was even luckier though, probably the luckiest winner in the history of that event. Davydenko choking bigtime in their RR match otherwise he would have been eliminated. Simon choking and getting an unlucky and untimely neck injury in the semis which helped cost him the match. Federer injured and going out in the RR due to his injury. Murray foolishly exhausting himself to win a meaningless RR match with an injured Federer and thus losing in the semis due to being exhausted. Nadal out of the event with injury. Djokovic played a great final and deserved to win that match but shouldnt have ever been there in the first place.
He doesnt have the mentality, heart, or game of a #1. He has a really good game but not that of a #1 player, and the other elements of a #1 player are not there either.
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grafrules
Banned
With Federer, Nadal, and Murray all above him on hard courts now not very likely at all. It would be a real longshot at best.
anointedone
Banned
No I dont think so. Nadal and Federer are currently the superior players, and Nadal will be around for awhile himself. I am not sold on Murray having surpassed him or not yet, but it is possible it happens at some point even this year. There are other up and comers on the horizon as well. I dont see him ever reaching #1. He is good but not that quite that good.
JankovicFan
Semi-Pro
No, the match should have been called. There are other courts open at night. Rescheduling would not be that difficult except for the spectators.
BallzofSkill
Semi-Pro
i said this at the beginning of 2008, djokovic was overhyped. he's a good player but by no means does he have the game or fortitude to overthrow federer. and now he has nadal. there will always be better than him.
thalivest
Banned
I am sick of hearing this. Have some of you ever watched the Australian Open before this year!? It has been way hotter conditions than this and play has not been called or rescheduled for it even though it theoretically would have been easy to do. Did you see the womens final between Capriati and Hingis when the two players were almost dizzy by the 3rd set and having to sooth themselves with ice packs on every changeover. There shouldnt be expections made for Djokovic just beause he isnt fit enough to deal with it. It is what it is, you are prepared for it or tough luck.
He will take the career slam in New York
Oh it gets hot in New York in August. Remember Baghdatis and others cramping.
I predict he takes the career slam of quiting in all four majors.
Oh it gets hot in New York in August. Remember Baghdatis and others cramping.
I predict he takes the career slam of quiting in all four majors.
In a way they could have rescheduled the match to night.But what if this wasnt a quarter final match and was in the earlier rounds where all courts are booked in?Tournament organisers cant just change everything because one player cant take the heat.And if they did reschedule the match then im sure there will be more other players in the future requesting that too which makes it awfully tough for organisers.So simply put,if you cant take the heat then beat it.Its part of the game.It tests you mentality/psychology, technique/skills and physically.So if the joker cant take the heat then maybe he should just go play something like golf.He wont need to walk to his ball with those little golf cart things around.
Ian Stewart
Professional
oscar_2424
Legend
he needs to train in vegas with Reyes.
cucio
Legend
Madrid in the lead up to the Aus Open:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/damianvila/sets/72157612352354850/
Or you don't mean Madrid, Spain? Is there a Madrid in the southern hemisphere?
WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis
Hall of Fame
I think Novak one day might hold the no.1 spot for a short amount of time, but its greatly dependant on the other top players at the time and who they will be. If Nadal continues to dominate for the next years, I think it will be hard for Novak's chances. But longevity, fitness issues, knee problems, anything might effect the top spots. Novak has the game, he says he has the heart too. It just isnt panning out thus far.
M
Morrissey
Guest
As a life long New Yorker I beg to differ. There's definitely humidity issues here and that's just as energy sapping as a 100+ degree day. Combine 90-100% humidity with an 85 degree day here in NY in the middle of the day and I challenge anyone to say there's no heat issues here.
Unless of course you're Nadal
See, Djokovic does this just after I credit him with improving the things people criticized him for. I still give him credit for improving his sportsmanship, but I really thought that after those efforts vs. Nadal on clay last year, he was past the quitting stage. Especially at a grand slam that he is defendinig. I mean, really, the GS' are the place to push yourself; especially the AO, since it's quite a while until the FO. So even if he over-does it, he's got some lee-way until the next slam.
How I see it:
Dajokabich quits, is a quitter will always be a quitter. You can see it in his face. When things get tough he is looking for a way out, not through.
Its fitting he quit against Roddick. For all that gets said against Roddick, he is no quitter. He has taken many hard losses and fought it out the whole time. Kudos to Andy and Ha Ha to Dajokabich.....
Dajokabich quits, is a quitter will always be a quitter. You can see it in his face. When things get tough he is looking for a way out, not through.
Its fitting he quit against Roddick. For all that gets said against Roddick, he is no quitter. He has taken many hard losses and fought it out the whole time. Kudos to Andy and Ha Ha to Dajokabich.....
JankovicFan
Semi-Pro
You're breaking the first rule of forums - discuss ideas, not personalities.
JankovicFan
Semi-Pro
No, they just need a temperature on court, higher than which they will not continue.
All this while Federer plays all his matches well into the evening, after dark. What's up with that? Djoker is the defending champion. I love Federer, but that clearly seems like an advantage to me.
JankovicFan
Semi-Pro
On court was 140F.
sheq
Professional
JankovicFan
Semi-Pro
I'll have to review, but I know I was up early enough to watch Fed/Berdych and Fed/Del Potro. I was thinking Fed/Safin was an evening main event as well. I only saw the last few games. I saw part of FEd/Seppi, so that had to be late. 'Not sure about Fed/Korolev, which I didn't see at all. I would have to say it's questionable whether Fed had "a bunch" in the worst heat. If not after sundown, I think I can say that Federer didn't play in the worst heat and sun of the day.
I don't have any particular need to make excuses for Djokovic but I do know that he has breathing problems, and I believe they are legitimate.
Tshooter
G.O.A.T.
"He could very likely take a US Open this year. There are no massive heat issues at USO."
I think you mean he can likely take the US Open making, as Bud Collins noted on TV tonight, a Grand Slam of retirements, the USO being the only GS he hasn't quit at yet.
As others have noted there can definitely be heat issues at the US Open. It can get into the 90s (F) with much higher humidity then Melbourne.
There are quite frequently cramping problems at the USO. The entire injury rule was revamped after that famous incident of cramping by the Japanese player whose name escapes me.
I really can't recall any great champion from Connors through Federer that quit like Djokovic seems willing to do. I thought it was funny that Federer pointed out to Bud Collins that when Djokovic quit in Monte-Carlo he told Federer at the net that he had a sore throat. And Federer made a face to suggest that was really weak.
Can you imagine Nadal quitting? Ever? Under any circumstances?
Roddick for all the negatives on his game has a huge competitive heart. Nice win for him.
I think you mean he can likely take the US Open making, as Bud Collins noted on TV tonight, a Grand Slam of retirements, the USO being the only GS he hasn't quit at yet.
As others have noted there can definitely be heat issues at the US Open. It can get into the 90s (F) with much higher humidity then Melbourne.
There are quite frequently cramping problems at the USO. The entire injury rule was revamped after that famous incident of cramping by the Japanese player whose name escapes me.
I really can't recall any great champion from Connors through Federer that quit like Djokovic seems willing to do. I thought it was funny that Federer pointed out to Bud Collins that when Djokovic quit in Monte-Carlo he told Federer at the net that he had a sore throat. And Federer made a face to suggest that was really weak.
Can you imagine Nadal quitting? Ever? Under any circumstances?
Roddick for all the negatives on his game has a huge competitive heart. Nice win for him.
TheMusicLover
G.O.A.T.
Yep, fully agree with you. Even more, continuing the match might even endanger a player's health in such conditions. There's no need for suicide in tennis matches.
Good point. He might have a look at Federer's training schedule - he always trains in Dubai in December, for a very good reason - to prepare himself for playing in the heat. A much better idea than getting all those charity exhos done, even if it gains a player sympathy - in the end all that counts are results at official tournaments.
And it's not like 1.5 days off is too little to recover. Again, this has to do with his lack of fitness and poor preparation.
SO TRUE. Some people seem to think (especially those who only started watching tennis around 2005 or so) that having around players like Roger and Rafa is a 'normal situation'. Well, it is NOT. They are not just remarkable - they are two real greats of all time.
JankovicFan
Semi-Pro
I haven't analyzed it but recall that Djokovic's #3 ranking was very dependent upon him defending his 2000 points from AO 2008. It didn't help that Murray got knocked off too, but I am wondering how the placements fall now and whether Murray is a lot closer. Murray was defending virtually nothing because of an early exit last year.
Shabazza
Legend
Murray will most likely will be #3 comes Wimbledon. He did miss both RG and Wimbledon last year and still managed to get to #4. He can only gain points over the clay and grass season, while Djokovic has a lot to defend (not forgetting IW and Miami).
Tshooter
G.O.A.T.
"I for one don't care if someone 'plays out' a match they can't win."
(1) It's disrespectful to your opponent (see, e.g., Henin's retirement against Mauresmo).
(2) It's not so hot for the fans that pay large amounts of money to watch the match.
(3) It's a good way to further reduce the interest of TV networks.
(4) It would result in Federer winning more than 90% of his matches from a retirement. Add Nadal and a similar percentage.
(5) And it's completely feffin unprofessional.
The great ones don't think they can't win even when they are not physically well. Even when they are puking on the court (Sampras-Coretja) or sick with mono (Federer, 2008 Melbourne) or in physical pain (Nadal-Ferrer 2007 USO). They simply aren't built that way.
(1) It's disrespectful to your opponent (see, e.g., Henin's retirement against Mauresmo).
(2) It's not so hot for the fans that pay large amounts of money to watch the match.
(3) It's a good way to further reduce the interest of TV networks.
(4) It would result in Federer winning more than 90% of his matches from a retirement. Add Nadal and a similar percentage.
(5) And it's completely feffin unprofessional.
The great ones don't think they can't win even when they are not physically well. Even when they are puking on the court (Sampras-Coretja) or sick with mono (Federer, 2008 Melbourne) or in physical pain (Nadal-Ferrer 2007 USO). They simply aren't built that way.
oranges
Hall of Fame
You're thinking of Tsonga there? Murray played both, QF in Wimby and earlier exit in RG, not sure 2nd or 3rd round. Joker has a more to defend at RG but less at Wimby.
Shabazza
Legend
Ups my bad, somehow I mixed that up in my mind and thought Murray missed Wimbledon 2008, while it was in 2007 and Tsonga in 2008. lol
Thanks for clarifying this, I hate wrong stats and I hate it even more when I give them.
Ok, so only the spring Masters will be the key to number 3. (yeah that lame rhyme was intentional.)
Bolivian Ace
Rookie
I vaguely remember walking around some matches at the US Open several years ago to find a really good match going on between these 2 young guys, I think 1 was Djokovich and the other was Mon Fils? Anyways my first introduction to Djokovich was a poor usage of an injury time out when all it seemed like was he was tired. I cant remember the details very well but I recall feeling that this was a bit of a bratty kid. I can't help but still feel that way.
I think Tshooter brought up good arguments. You're a professional so start acting like one. It would only benefit him more as well. Well liked, respected, charming sports personalities often get more endorsements and transitional jobs like sports casters.
I think Tshooter brought up good arguments. You're a professional so start acting like one. It would only benefit him more as well. Well liked, respected, charming sports personalities often get more endorsements and transitional jobs like sports casters.
Djokovic was playing fantastic in that first set. I don't think I've ever seen him play a better set. But I noticed that when he won the first, he didn't seem as "demonstrative" as he usually is (fist clenching, chest thumping, glaring at his box, et al). I wonder if that's when he started to feel "poorly".
Anyway, he's still young and is IMO one of the most versitile players on tour but I wonder if he has heart of a #1. He seems to be a bit fragile when it comes to distractions (crowd noise, obnoxious fans, etc) and when he gets down his body language screams, "I'm out of it". I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be a 1-slam Wonder.
Anyway, he's still young and is IMO one of the most versitile players on tour but I wonder if he has heart of a #1. He seems to be a bit fragile when it comes to distractions (crowd noise, obnoxious fans, etc) and when he gets down his body language screams, "I'm out of it". I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be a 1-slam Wonder.
LOL, he can't believe that Roddick laid a complete beatdown on his national hero Djokovic.
seffina
G.O.A.T.
After this tournament, Murray is at 7360 points and Djokovic is at 9010 points. That's a difference of 1650 points
Novak has 3180 points to defend until the French Open.
Murray has 1080 points to defend until the French Open.
That's a difference of 2100 points.
In total, the difference between needing to defend and the points ahead is 450.
So I guess it's possible for Murray to take over Novak's number three.
Novak has 3180 points to defend until the French Open.
Murray has 1080 points to defend until the French Open.
That's a difference of 2100 points.
In total, the difference between needing to defend and the points ahead is 450.
So I guess it's possible for Murray to take over Novak's number three.
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