ForehandRF
Legend
Yeah, Fed is the oldest YEC winner
Djokovic will never have more WTF titles than Federer
Rosewall won 2 WCT titles at 37 and 37.6 when it was a single elimination and ALL matches were best of 5 sets.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
He's won 10 slams since he won his last WTF.
It IS that hard to accomplish, especially when in best of three the younger players have pretty much taken over.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
OK. But it’s just one more anyway.
I just find rare that Fed hasn’t won it since 2011, and Nole since 2015.
Fed will definitely not win it. Nole may.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
No one has won the event after the age of 30, Federer was the oldest winner at 30. End of the season, the younger guys will be tougher to beat, especially when there are no rest days towards the end of the event. Think Federer will hold this record now for a while.
UnforcedTerror
Hall of Fame
Man, Rosewall is so underrated. If only he was attention wh****g like Laver, people would be appreciating him more.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
Ray Mercer
Hall of Fame
It’s only fitting that Federer hold this record. Indoor hardcourt is supposed to be the surface created for the offensive player and nobody plays a better offensive game than Federer. Had they kept the surface as fast as it was in 2003 Federer would have a few more of these titles.
Don't forget that Federer won 3 times in the best of 5 sets, and won 5 times undefeated.
Context is everything
or karlovic.
This is where the double-standard comes in. Djokovic fans like to praise him for his total MS1000 titles, but don't want to acknowledge that past ATG weren't aiming at playing these tournaments plus not a mandatory during their era, even Federer skipped many MS1000 during his early 2000s, and yet this holds against all of them. There's no MS1000 on grass, how about given Federer and Sampras the same fair assessment like what Djokovic fans are doing for him at the WTF?
We have to be open-minded
D
Deleted member 762343
Guest
Could be worse, he could have had 0 titles.
-snake-
Hall of Fame
I have my own criteria and you have yours.
* Number of Major Titles won
* Overall performance at Grand Slam Events
* Player Ranking
* Performance at ATP/WTA events
* Performance(Win/loss record) at Davis & Fed Cup events
* Records held or broken(i.e. Consecutive winning streaks)
* Intangibles(Overall contribution to tennis)
About the H2H, it has meaning if two players are at the same age - peak vs. peak, prime vs. prime and past prime vs past prime.
I don't holds any weight on H2H when players are like 5 years apart, not to mention when most of the meetings occur on one player's prime/peak years. Totally misleading
Hitman
Bionic Poster
H2H isn't my criteria, I am talking about things that were always mentioned. Sampras' H2H with all his rivals were always mentioned, even McEnroe v Borg they always stated it was 7-7.
You may not like it, and not want to use it, fair enough. I personally don't even think there is a GOAT, something you already know, I don't think Djokovic is GOAT and I don't think Federer is GOAT either.
It wasn’t really always about slams, not until Sampras made it a thing by trying to break the record. In the 70s and 80s it was more about Wimbledon, THE Open, total titles and a few other important tournaments as well as being #1, not really weeks or consecutive weeks even.
Shaolin
Talk Tennis Guru
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Yes and no. Slams were seen as a measure of greatness, which is why Borg's six RG and five W titles, which included 3 channels slams were valued so much.
Now, you are talking to someone who doesn't believe in GOAT, and the original point I am making is, that even though Djokovic has an incredible 37 masters titles in an era where masters were valued more, no one really uses them for the GOAT discussions. The two most powerful metrics were slams and weeks at number one, with year ending number one in solid third.
the fo open wasnt so valued back in the day. It was really more of a specialist event, even Wimbledon was for that matter except Wimbledon had the prestige and history, the FO did not. Many Americans didn’t routinely participate in the FO. So yes Borg’s achievements were lauded but mainly for Wimbledon.
That’s why I capitalized THE open. USO was THE open, even if technically all the slams were open
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
That is a completely untrue statement. My sister lives about 8 doors away from Rocket in Carlsbad. He NEVER seeks attention and never plays the big man and she sees him and his companion out talking and speaks to him whenever she sees him. When a stadium is named in his honor, he travels 22 hours on a plane because the Aussie organizers invite him and pay his way. When Novak was going for the CYGS, the USTA paid his way to sit in the stands as Ashe that day as well. Rod is a very retiring man and never has sought the spotlight. What total BS to call one of the nicest tennis legends ever an "attention w-ore."
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
I sensed Rocket was like that.
A GOAT of other times aging beautifully,
Steffi-forever
Hall of Fame
It’s alright! Winning 5 is still an incredible achievement!
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Man, who would've thought after he won in 2015? I thought it was inevitable.
Time is a b***ch and it's finally starting to catch up with Djokovic too. I think he'll have one more decent shot to tie Fed in 2022 and that's that.
Time is a b***ch and it's finally starting to catch up with Djokovic too. I think he'll have one more decent shot to tie Fed in 2022 and that's that.
Tennisfan339
Professional
Even right now it's hard to predict...
Last year he lost 7-6 in the 3rd against Thiem in SF. He was up 4-1 in the final tie-break.
This year it's clear only this peak Zverev could stop it and he did, in a very close, intense match that could've gone either way.
No doubt he'll still be in the field and co-favorite next year, and probably 2023 too if he's fit.
But winning 2 (total 7), I would bet against it. I think that's a record Federer will keep or tie.
I can see Zverev winning, 3, 4 or maybe 5 WTF, though. It's obvious the Turin surfaces/conditions suit his game to a T. It'll be held in Turin until 2025, so 4 more chances for him. He could easily win 1 or 2 of these.
H2H has little value to me.
30-28 for Nadal Djokovic but nearly half of these 58 were on clay and clay is only 30% of the season. What does this mean? How many more wins would Djokovic have against Nadal in slams if they played as many times in AO and Wimbledon as they did in RG? These 2 have more matches in Roland than in the other 3 slams altogether...
The age is also important... Federer has a negative H2H against Thiem and Zverev but would that be the case if 2004-2007 Federer played these guys now, I doubt it.
There are just so many factors to consider when we mention H2H... It can't be a determining criteria.
Last year he lost 7-6 in the 3rd against Thiem in SF. He was up 4-1 in the final tie-break.
This year it's clear only this peak Zverev could stop it and he did, in a very close, intense match that could've gone either way.
No doubt he'll still be in the field and co-favorite next year, and probably 2023 too if he's fit.
But winning 2 (total 7), I would bet against it. I think that's a record Federer will keep or tie.
I can see Zverev winning, 3, 4 or maybe 5 WTF, though. It's obvious the Turin surfaces/conditions suit his game to a T. It'll be held in Turin until 2025, so 4 more chances for him. He could easily win 1 or 2 of these.
H2H has little value to me.
30-28 for Nadal Djokovic but nearly half of these 58 were on clay and clay is only 30% of the season. What does this mean? How many more wins would Djokovic have against Nadal in slams if they played as many times in AO and Wimbledon as they did in RG? These 2 have more matches in Roland than in the other 3 slams altogether...
The age is also important... Federer has a negative H2H against Thiem and Zverev but would that be the case if 2004-2007 Federer played these guys now, I doubt it.
There are just so many factors to consider when we mention H2H... It can't be a determining criteria.
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The Big Foe fan
Hall of Fame
One bad service game is all it took.Thanks to Zverev aka "Street", the most WTF titles Djokovic will ever have is six. Seriously, does anyone seeing him winning it after 2019? In fact, he may never win it again.
Thoughts?
Be careful next time novak bruh.
The Big Foe fan
Hall of Fame
One more old record for the oldie goldie feddie buddieYeah, Fed is the oldest YEC winner
mike danny
Bionic Poster
A Nadal fan making fun of someone for not winning the WTF? That's taking irony to a whole new level.
N
Nuclear
Guest
savage
Dude HOW MANY accounts has Beckerserve had on here??? Wtf lol I can tell this is him too
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Yeah I think Federer will keep this record now!
Bubcay
Legend
Still, a very few younger players are capable of beating him, so I would not write him off yet. It is probably the biggest obstacle for him of all the big titles though...
BGod
G.O.A.T.
You've got a point.
Federer was 30
Nastase was 29
Murray was 29
Sampras was 28
Novak was 28
Davydenko was 28
Becker was 28
Roger was oldest finalist at 34 followed by Agassi at 33.
The Big Foe fan
Hall of Fame
Djoko had his best shot last year.
How did he lose the tiebreaker from 4-0 up is insane
Considering that he had a Meddy in the final that straight-setted him 3 & 3 in the round robin??
The Big Foe fan
Hall of Fame
Djokovic tanked that match. It was clear bruh
Bubcay
Legend
Probably not. He cannot hold all of the records, and probably should not.Thanks to Zverev aka "Street", the most WTF titles Djokovic will ever have is six. Seriously, does anyone seeing him winning it after 2019? In fact, he may never win it again.
Thoughts?
