Djokovic's dad refers to Thiem as "some Austrian..."

Genious at Work

Hall of Fame
You really are an idiot. I hope English isn't your first language.
Sound reasoning. I explained why you can't use punctuation properly and instead of thanking me for trying to help you you insult me? I guess that says a lot about your mental capacity, no?
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
Novak rejected foreign citizenship way before he became famous. Of course, there's no benefit for him to take citizenship for citizenship's sake, but for financial security gain that goes with that offer. Aren't you a naive one all of a sudden? ;) So often, ones who don't have any domestic talent, end up buying it from poor countries.

As for me personally, I'm happy not to pay taxes. Hate that wretched **** which only applies to the poor.
No, Novak rejected citizenship when he was already famous (prospect), albeit not to such an extend as now. There is no financial security in getting citizenship that his current situation doesn't provide, so that is a distinction based on nothing. If you don't realise that you don't know Djokovic's current situation.

Even if you are happy not to pay taxes you in fact do, so that is another way to sweep that matter under the carpet. One has to wonder why someone who is hard done by his own country (as you and others claim), are so adamant to defend the choice of someone who did the opposite of what they do?

 

Born_to_slice

Hall of Fame
I give up. Yes, nobody likes to pay taxes. If you are American and work abroad you still have to pay taxes in the US. That is why so many people give up their citizenship.
But you're protected everywhere like a polar bear as an American. Compare that to how Novak is treated, or Seles for that matter. That article I've posted before says that there's no income tax in 10 states in USA, so it's not so bad, at least in those states. Of course, it's always easier to be rich than to be a regular person.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
But you're protected everywhere like a polar bear as an American. Compare that to how Novak is treated, or Seles for that matter. That article I've posted before says that there's no income tax in 10 states in USA, so it's not so bad, at least in those states. Of course, it's always easier to be rich than to be a regular person.
How is Seles treated? It will be interesting to see how deep the rabbit hole is.

 

Genious at Work

Hall of Fame
How is Novak treated? I don't follow you. What happened to Seles was the work of an isolated madman, and I think it didn't have anything to do with her being a Serbian, did it?
But you're protected everywhere like a polar bear as an American. Compare that to how Novak is treated, or Seles for that matter. That article I've posted before says that there's no income tax in 10 states in USA, so it's not so bad, at least in those states. Of course, it's always easier to be rich than to be a regular person.
 

Genious at Work

Hall of Fame
Whoever taught you that rule is flat out wrong.
The difference between ignorance and stupidity is that stupid people refuse help when others try to help them out of their ignorance. Be my guest and continue being stupid. If you want to avoid making mistakes like the one above, in general, don't use commas unless you are sure they are used correctly. It is almost always OK to avoid a comma even in cases where it would be acceptable or even preferable. Not sure why I am wasting my time trying to help you though.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
He's like a mascot for them. You're terribly naive if you think they are taxing their mascot, ambassador and cash cow.
Like I said, you have no idea what you are talking about if you think that Switzerland is paying Federer or that he is not taxed accordingly. He is as much of a mascot as Switzerland is part of his brand, so there is no unilateral profit in being a Swiss citizen.

 

Born_to_slice

Hall of Fame
How is Novak treated? I don't follow you. What happened to Seles was the work of an isolated madman, and I think it didn't have anything to do with her being a Serbian, did it?
I meant by crowd. Seles was treated very similarly, even when she was just 15-16 yo girl. It's unimaginable that little Gauff would have such treatment anywhere now.

Also Seles wasn't Serbian, she was ethnic Hungarian, but she was born in and represented Yugoslavia. I don't want to discuss how isolated Parche was, but let me just point out that he never served a day of jailtime for his act.
Like I said, you have no idea what you are talking about if you think that Switzerland is paying Federer or that he is not taxed accordingly. He is as much of a mascot as Switzerland is part of his brand, so there is no unilateral profit in being a Swiss citizen.
Whatever. That's my honest opinion. You're welcome to your own.
 

Genious at Work

Hall of Fame
I meant by crowd. Seles was treated very similarly, even when she was just 15-16 yo girl. It's unimaginable that little Gauff would have such treatment anywhere now.

Also Seles wasn't Serbian, she was ethnic Hungarian, but she was born in and represented Yugoslavia. I don't want to discuss how isolated Parche was, but let me just point out that he never served a day of jailtime for his act.
Do you really think crowds boo players because they are Serbian or maybe because they are not Western? I can see how crowds prefer local players, underdogs, and players who are popular, but I don't see why crowds would boo or heckle a player because of their nationality. I think that Western/Eastern divide you have in your mind doesn't exist anymore.

As for Parche's retribution, let's say I am not familiar with the details. Did he get put into a mental institution? He deserved that if not more.
 

NiCo515

New User
The difference between ignorance and stupidity is that stupid people refuse help when others try to help them out of their ignorance. Be my guest and continue being stupid. If you want to avoid making mistakes like the one above, in general, don't use commas unless you are sure they are used correctly. It is almost always OK to avoid a comma even in cases where it would be acceptable or even preferable. Not sure why I am wasting my time trying to help you though.
I learned how to use commas and avoid run-on sentences in grade school. Evidently you still haven't. And you're willing to die on this hill :-D. 3/10 Rohit. Hire a better instructor.
 

Genious at Work

Hall of Fame
I learned how to use commas and avoid run-on sentences in grade school. Evidently you still haven't. And you're willing to die on this hill :-D. 3/10 Rohit. Hire a better instructor.
I know you did because you speak no better than the average grade-schooler. Let us try this again to see if it sinks in...

Reading your writing, I have to assume it's the latter, because you've taken the liberty of inventing numerous words and using punctuation in all the wrong places.

The above comma marked in red is incorrect. You shouldn't have put a comma there. In your sentence above, the word "because" is a subordinate conjunction, and you should never put commas before subordinate conjunctions, moron.

As I said, the rule of thumb I provided you with earlier is useful, but, as with all rules of thumb, it is overly general and it doesn't cover all possible cases.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
I meant by crowd. Seles was treated very similarly, even when she was just 15-16 yo girl. It's unimaginable that little Gauff would have such treatment anywhere now.

Also Seles wasn't Serbian, she was ethnic Hungarian, but she was born in and represented Yugoslavia. I don't want to discuss how isolated Parche was, but let me just point out that he never served a day of jailtime for his act.

Whatever. That's my honest opinion. You're welcome to your own.
It can be an honest opinion an it can be unsubstantiated.

As for your other blabber, Seles was never treated badly because of her nationality. I have seen that argument put forward by people with ultra nationalistic views, who are feeding off of one isolated incident to draw conclusions about whole parts of Europe, just because it fits their hateful agenda. In that regard they are not dissimilar to the mental patient Parche, who, btw, was diagnosed with mental illness, and prosecuted for dangerous physical injury (which is what Seles was subject to upon his attack). It is shameful that you imply that the German authorities in the representation of the German judicial system were accomplices in his deed. That is straight out a stain that you can put on yourself, and a step short of joining the hate speeches that certain groups would do to instigate radical views. I said that I want to see how deep the rabbit hole is, and although you were too cowardly to answer me directly, you were not careful enough to conceal your views in that answer of yours.

 

mwym

Rookie
Unnecessary pressure put onto Nole.
No, he is publicly expressing confidence his son can achieve something that is closest to impossible. I am positive he has been doing that very thing since his son's early age. We know the results. We know what 'pressure' does to Djokovic and it works exactly the opposite when compared to other players. It was no one else not even his father - Novak Djokovic put himself under career long pressure of chasing Federer and Nadal for all these years. The man lives on 'pressure' like we live on air.

So, while it is a pressure to almost all humans, to his son it is obviously something of exactly the opposite - a shot of adrenaline/testosterone/motivation/self confidence/you name it, the same thing it has always been and the same thing it will be til he retires.

Now, THAT is what many cannot like about Djokovic, it is his mind. More often than not most of negative emotions are nothing but a mask ego invents to hide fear. Cause people fear of many things but every fear is always a fear of unknown.

TL/DR: they both know, this son will win more when his father says he will win everything. Hence, the practice unknown to almost all humans. Which they dislike like a child not liking a particular food. Which he/she never ate before. Hence, the name calling for both the son and the father.
 
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stringertom

Bionic Poster
Thiem right up there with “some Austrian” in the annals of Freud, Mozart, Waldheim, Schwarzenegger and Puck, no?
 

Born_to_slice

Hall of Fame
Do you really think crowds boo players because they are Serbian or maybe because they are not Western? I can see how crowds prefer local players, underdogs, and players who are popular, but I don't see why crowds would boo or heckle a player because of their nationality. I think that Western/Eastern divide you have in your mind doesn't exist anymore.

As for Parche's retribution, let's say I am not familiar with the details. Did he get put into a mental institution? He deserved that if not more.
It's negligible when players are new and just slightly successful. For example, most people loved Novak's imitations in the beginning but now it's something people hold against him as something he was doing in his vile attempt to be loved. Nevermind that it all started as spontaneous locker room fun and later organizers started to beg him to do it on court..
When some players took offense, he stopped. You can get a pass if you're hot and slightly successful like Ivanovic and Safin, but if you put a dead stop to icons like Graf or Fedal, you're going to get the treatment. West/East divide doesn't exist anymore that strongly like in the time of Cold War but it's still there.

As for Parche, he got 2 year suspended sentence and some therapy sessions. This is an excellent read if you want to know more about it: https://ndsmcobserver.com/2019/04/the-biggest-scam-in-sports-history/
It can be an honest opinion an it can be unsubstantiated.

As for your other blabber, Seles was never treated badly because of her nationality. I have seen that argument put forward by people with ultra nationalistic views, who are feeding off of one isolated incident to draw conclusions about whole parts of Europe, just because it fits their hateful agenda. In that regard they are not dissimilar to the mental patient Parche, who, btw, was diagnosed with mental illness, and prosecuted for dangerous physical injury (which is what Seles was subject to upon his attack). It is shameful that you imply that the German authorities in the representation of the German judicial system were accomplices in his deed. That is straight out a stain that you can put on yourself, and a step short of joining the hate speeches that certain groups would do to instigate radical views. I said that I want to see how deep the rabbit hole is, and although you were too cowardly to answer me directly, you were not careful enough to conceal your views in that answer of yours.
Wow, you met some ultra nationalistic Yugoslavians? :confused: How amusing. Say young German star emerges now and starts beating Djokovic left, right and center, then gets stabbed by a Djokovic fan in Belgrade and the guy walks free. Yeah, I can imagine you defending Serbian judicial system...
 
Well in my opinion it should ratber be normal that the crowds roots for the underdog. Is that not a normal human thing. That does not mean that people don t like Djokovic. I think it is rather strange that crowds root for Federer all the time when he struggles against a lesser known player. Unless you are a die heart fan of a certain player I think rooting for the underdog is the more sportsmanship thing to do.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
Wow, you met some ultra nationalistic Yugoslavians? :confused: How amusing. Say young German star emerges now and starts beating Djokovic left, right and center, then gets stabbed by a Djokovic fan in Belgrade and the guy walks free. Yeah, I can imagine you defending Serbian judicial system...
So, you don't know anything about the process and yet are hurling accusations towards the legal system? Just so that you know: Parche could have been sentenced to some jail time, should Seles have agreed to testify in court, which she refused to do (understandably because of her psychic trauma). It is only that much that can be proven and those are the parameters of what could have been done, so on top of being radical in your views, you are also ignorant. That is not surprising, as the latter is often times prerequisite for the former. I wonder why and how that sort of radicalism persists with the people carrying it while they perceive themselves as having the higher ground as far as morals are concerned? That chip on your shoulder might be as big as the iceberg that crashed Titanic.

 
Djokovic's dad sounds like a bitter old man. Djokovic too on court with his lack of being unloved despite his success. He does get his cheers from the Aussie crowd but they root for the underdog. Federer's case is an outlier. There was a time the USO crowd rooted for anyone but Federer because he was dominating left right and center. In 2007, they supported Djokovic. I didn't see Roger or his dad make a fuss about it. Looks like the claims of Novak being a nationalistic icon for his country is not that false from what I'm seeing.
There was a loud Serbian contingent who were singing Nole Nole all the way. I didn't see "the Austrian's" mom raise an issue with it. Thiem didn't even question Novak's two MTOs when Nole was under the pump after the third set. I hope Novak is different than his dad but fruit doesn't fall far from its tree. I hope his claims of open mindedness being the reason for his success and well being is true. Because his dad surely doesn't sound open minded. He will be quick to make friends with that guy in the arena who was wearing that "Serbia against the world" tshirt. With that chip on the shoulder, you can't explain why he doesn't get the support that he needs.
 

bostontennis

New User
I am saying that when Djokovic is 38 and he has 2 Championship Points against somebody 6 years younger you let me know. Djokovic would have never been able to beat the Fed of mid 2006 at Wimbledon. Never.
like i said, you are not winner of the match if you lose every match point of your own.
i don't know what will happen to joker when he is 38, still 5-6 years to go.
but i know federer losed every grand slam match with joker since 2012.
if joker was in form during 2016-2018, federer couldn't get his last 3 slam titles.
anyway, what happened is what happend. federer still has 20.
it will take joker a while to catch up.
however, we have reason to believe joker can and will catch up and pass 20, because he has 17 before 33 birthday, a performance slightly better than fed.
 

ompluscator

New User
Like French Open 2011. Oh wait...
If you talk about 2011, why to mention only French Open? Why not also AO, USO, Dubai, Indian Wells? Probably because your argument for "peak against peak" would be than ridiculous, as ridiculous as Djokovic-Federer score that year (4-1), or even Djokovic-Nadal (6-0), or even maybe Djokovic-Fedal (10-1).

So, yes, peak Djokovic over peak Federer, anywhere.
 

daddy

Legend
This argument is crap. If anybody who doesn't trust the government didn't pay taxes then nobody would pay taxes. Taxes are about contributing to your country, which needs money to function so it can provide services to your countrymen. This idea of Djokovic as a Robin Hood is so funny.
Completely agree on this one. Taxes are mandatory and a way of income for every country and should be paid regardless of whether you like it or not. Every country has a taxation system which has to be enforced. You have income, you pay taxes - as simple as that.

However it is up to you to make life decisions such as where do you want to live and raise your children, where can you have better job opportunities and make connections or for example in his case where can you train all year round and move freely because you're not the only famous person, quite the contrary - half the worlds celebrities, especially people from various sports live there. So if you decide to take YOUR LEGALLY earned money and reside and pay mandatory taxes thus performing your LEGAL obligation to the country of your residence ( as explained in another post, there's a tax treaty preventing double taxing ) you are truly and completely within the boundaries of law therefor no one can blame you for making such a personal decision.

The thing is that there are more guys out there than Nadal and Fed, and if Djokovic keeps getting beaten by Kyrgios, Medvedev, and Thiem, then he has a problem.

I know you guys think it is a given that Djokovic will get 22 or 23 slams now after he scraped a victory in his pet slam after being 2 sets down to 1, but let that euphoria settle down and let's see how he has done at the end of his so-called CYGS year, no?
I don't think anything is a given, I am just saying that out of the big three, being 32 and playing the type of tennis he does, Novak has more chances to win more slams and as long as he's in contention - he should be doing it as is Federer right now.
 

daddy

Legend
I give up. Yes, nobody likes to pay taxes. If you are American and work abroad you still have to pay taxes in the US. That is why so many people give up their citizenship.
Double tax treaty is a given - if you pay taxes in US as an american citizen then you're not obliged to pay taxes anywhere else. Need I remind you that this is directly my area of expertise having a MDA in International trade and foreign economics from the Faculty of Economics, class of 2004.
 

daddy

Legend
I just checked our taxation law and it turns out that if you already payed the tax in another country, you get tax credit in the same amount, so double taxation doesn't exist in our country.
I know man, I run a US based company and live here.

Edit : there's a ton of details in regards to things you should pay for unemployment here and healthcare system and similar so you're not completely off hook but it's not a 53% tax usually demanded in my branch of business. It's a few percent of the average last months earnings in Srb. They made some changes in December and will be implementing them during the 2020 but I was talking about no double taxes EVER and ANYWHERE due to the Vienna convention.
 

Genious at Work

Hall of Fame
Double tax treaty is a given - if you pay taxes in US as an american citizen then you're not obliged to pay taxes anywhere else. Need I remind you that this is directly my area of expertise having a MDA in International trade and foreign economics from the Faculty of Economics, class of 2004.
Not all countries have such an agreement with the US, do they? Isn't there such a thing as double taxation?
 

Genious at Work

Hall of Fame
Completely agree on this one. Taxes are mandatory and a way of income for every country and should be paid regardless of whether you like it or not. Every country has a taxation system which has to be enforced. You have income, you pay taxes - as simple as that.

However it is up to you to make life decisions such as where do you want to live and raise your children, where can you have better job opportunities and make connections or for example in his case where can you train all year round and move freely because you're not the only famous person, quite the contrary - half the worlds celebrities, especially people from various sports live there. So if you decide to take YOUR LEGALLY earned money and reside and pay mandatory taxes thus performing your LEGAL obligation to the country of your residence ( as explained in another post, there's a tax treaty preventing double taxing ) you are truly and completely within the boundaries of law therefor no one can blame you for making such a personal decision.
Fair enough. But then don't pretend to be the most patriotic Serb either because that is insulting the intelligence of Serbs who actual pay taxes in Serbia. If you decide to shirk your duty because you think the government is corrupt then say it clearly.


I don't think anything is a given, I am just saying that out of the big three, being 32 and playing the type of tennis he does, Novak has more chances to win more slams and as long as he's in contention - he should be doing it as is Federer right now.
A lot of things can change, let's see what happens. The forum's opinion is very volatile and it swings from one end of the spectrum of possibilities to the opposite end.
 

Genious at Work

Hall of Fame
i was talking about joker beat nadel in RG in 2015. In RG in 2015, only joker beat nadal.
since 2005, there were only 2 man beat Nadal in French open, Fed wasn't any of those two.
Nadal was at his lowest in 2015. When Djokovic was at his lowest Nadal didn't play him. Instead, he played him at or near his best, and in 2012 he almost beat him at the AO.
 

Genious at Work

Hall of Fame
like i said, you are not winner of the match if you lose every match point of your own.
i don't know what will happen to joker when he is 38, still 5-6 years to go.
but i know federer losed every grand slam match with joker since 2012.
if joker was in form during 2016-2018, federer couldn't get his last 3 slam titles.
anyway, what happened is what happend. federer still has 20.
it will take joker a while to catch up.
however, we have reason to believe joker can and will catch up and pass 20, because he has 17 before 33 birthday, a performance slightly better than fed.
Can and will are completely different things. You might be surprised to find out things won't be as easy as you think.
 

Genious at Work

Hall of Fame
It's negligible when players are new and just slightly successful. For example, most people loved Novak's imitations in the beginning but now it's something people hold against him as something he was doing in his vile attempt to be loved. Nevermind that it all started as spontaneous locker room fun and later organizers started to beg him to do it on court..
When some players took offense, he stopped. You can get a pass if you're hot and slightly successful like Ivanovic and Safin, but if you put a dead stop to icons like Graf or Fedal, you're going to get the treatment. West/East divide doesn't exist anymore that strongly like in the time of Cold War but it's still there.
This is all reasonable, but don't act like a victim. It happens both ways. If an East European guy played an American guy in a final in Belgrade, who would the crowd cheer for?

As for Parche, yeah, that is disgusting.
 

Born_to_slice

Hall of Fame
This is all reasonable, but don't act like a victim. It happens both ways. If an East European guy played an American guy in a final in Belgrade, who would the crowd cheer for?
I'm not agreeing with Novak's father about his views. Crowd certainly has the right to support Thiem over Novak. What gets me annoyed is when I see disrespect, like not applauding outrageous winners and huge effort. That's just anti-sport imo.

As for American playing Eastern European guy in BG, crowd probably wouldn't be huge (our tennis culture is poor)and probably wouldn't care either way if EE guy was not a Serb. Actually, I'd say crowd in BG during past Davis cup matches was more well behaved than the immigrant Serbs supporting Serbia in ATP cup.
 

daddy

Legend
Not all countries have such an agreement with the US, do they? Isn't there such a thing as double taxation?
I don't know about all the countries, I know that all countries should have it but so should they have electricity and running water, know what I mean, right ?

With the US I only know even if my income comes from the US I pay taxes here where I am a resident and where I hold a passport. Same goes for the US citizens - they should pay taxes in the US regardless of where the money comes from, if they reside in the US permanently or carry a pass. However I think that US is the only country which has enough power to MAKE their citizens pay taxes in the states regardless of the fact that they permanently reside abroad or which dual citizenship they hold while with the other countries you choose one or the other. I'd have to ask my uncle, he's a dentist in Florida so he should know best but then again, he would pay his taxes in the US anyways since he is based there and working there so I'm not sure he'll be of more help nor will any of my other relatives in the US. Maybe if someone from the US has anyone working abroad, maybe they could contribute but this is a tennis forum last I checked. :)
 

bostontennis

New User
Nadal was at his lowest in 2015. When Djokovic was at his lowest Nadal didn't play him. Instead, he played him at or near his best, and in 2012 he almost beat him at the AO.
My point was to compare fed with joker, I used Nadal in French Open as banchmark.
If Nadal was at his lowest in 2015, Federer has his chance in 2015 as well. All I know is that, from 2005 to 2019, Fed never beat Nadal in French Open.
 

bostontennis

New User
Can and will are completely different things. You might be surprised to find out things won't be as easy as you think.
every single slam is difficult to win.
however we are talking about champions.
relatively it's easier for them to win slam.
as i acknowledged, fed is leading in slam right now. mostly people will believe nadal will get to 20 because he only needs to win 1 more. it's harder for djokovic because there are 3 left. however djokovic has better shape.
 
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