Djokovic's ex-coach : It was not the real Djokovic who played Wimb 23 Final

Hitman

Bionic Poster
That’s like saying the real Carlos didn’t lose RG.

No one wins or loses in isolation.

Your opponent imposes a response on you to provide - depending on the opponent that response requires more or less effort, more or less sustained mental fortitude, more or less strategic processing, etc.

To some degree Novak and Carlos played how the other let them.

Correct and that was still the case with all the events that followed, including Cincinnati - Alcaraz, USO - Medvedev, Paris - Rune, ATP finals - Rune, Alcaraz, Sinner
 

The Sinner

Semi-Pro
That’s like saying the real Carlos didn’t lose RG.

No one wins or loses in isolation.

Your opponent imposes a response on you to provide - depending on the opponent that response requires more or less effort, more or less sustained mental fortitude, more or less strategic processing, etc.

To some degree Novak and Carlos played how the other let them.
I do relate with what you say here.“ To some degree Novak and Carlos played how the other let them”… it’s like for example, Wimby F 2015, no. Fedr couldn’t replicate his SF masterclass, perhaps because Djoko didn’t allow him to?
 

Federev

G.O.A.T.
I do relate with what you say here.“ To some degree Novak and Carlos played how the other let them”… it’s like for example, Wimby F 2015, no. Fedr couldn’t replicate his SF masterclass, perhaps because Djoko didn’t allow him to?
100%
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
I think Djokovic was over-confident going into the Wimbledon final as he beat Alcaraz at the FO on clay just a month prior which theoretically suited Alcaraz more than grass and where Djokovic had been unbeaten on Center Court for ten years. Once the match got tight, I think Djokovic got tighter starting with the second set TB and he started serving poorly which led to his demise. Maybe his coach means that we got Chokovic instead of Djokovic and that guy will appear more as he ages.
 
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ChrisRF

Legend
I think Djokovic was over-confident going into the Wimbledon final as he beat Alcaraz at the FO on clay just a month prior which theoretically suited Alcaraz more than grass and where Djokovic had been unbeaten on Center Court for ten years. Once the match got tight, I think Djokovic got tighter starting with the second set TB and he started serving poorly which led to his demise.
Yes, it was mainly the serve. He had very few free points, especially when it mattered most. And that's the complete opposite to what happened over the whole season otherwise. Just compare how his serve was a main factor during the WTF, and sometimes even on clay this year. But everyone can have a bad day of course, and Alcaraz was relentless enough to capitalize.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Who played at a higher level?

1. Djokovic Wim 23 final or Murray AO 15 final
2. Djokovic Wim 19 final or Alcaraz Wim 23 final
3. Djokovic Wim 22 final or Alcaraz USO 22 QF
4. Djokovic Wim 19 final or Roddick USO 06 final
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
Who played at a higher level?

1. Djokovic Wim 23 final or Murray AO 15 final
2. Djokovic Wim 19 final or Alcaraz Wim 23 final
3. Djokovic Wim 22 final or Alcaraz USO 22 QF
4. Djokovic Wim 19 final or Roddick USO 06 final
1. Djokovic
2. Alcaraz. Oh controversial. lol
3. Untestable, aka I don't recall the USO 22 QF
4. Roddick.
 
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Exactly. Novak hit plenty of high-quality shots that would've been clean winners or forced errors against just about any other opponent, but Alcaraz consistently handled those shots and reset the point. I never got the impression when watching the match that Novak wasn't at his best. In fact, I thought he was really locked in compared to his previous three Wimbledon finals. His opponent was just too good this time.

Part of being a great player is making your opponent look worse than they are. Novak's done it for 15 years. Alcaraz is doing it now, too.
Its just the wind... he has never been good at dealing with wind. In fact anything disruptive like wind hurts djokovic. He wants the stablest most predictable conditions possible like at AO. Alcaraz is the opposite if anything, loves wind and outdoors
 
He is right. He obviously played far above himself to extend it to 5 sets as this years final showed. Isn't Pilic a convinced pedophile or something anyway? Was he saying this from prison.
 

TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru
“These are pure speculations by journalists,” Pilic told Meridian Sport (via Tennis 365). “It can be, but it doesn’t have to be. Let’s see what will happen at the US Open, where he (Alcaraz) defends 2000 points, and Novak doesn’t have to do anything.
Djokovic did win UsOpen 2023. He was right about that.
Might the same thing happen in 2024?
 

TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru
Are we talking the same kind of draw including Kopriva, Fearnley, Poppyrin, Rune, Bye and Mussetti with Alcaraz upset by someone else previously ?
Given the draw Novak had in Wimbledon, it isn't inconceivable that he might get lucky again in NYC.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
He said that wasn't the real Djokovic and then Djokovic went 21-1 after that match from Cincy to the ATP Finals, including 9-1 against the top 10, and the only loss was 7-6 in the 3rd. I fail to see any controversy in that statement.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
I don’t know why there is so much talk of Djokovic’s draw in Slams. It is not like he ever loses before the semifinal or loses to players outside the top 3 in Slams. Every draw is typically easy for him till he meets a top player in the semi or final.

Since his second career resurgence at Wimbledon 2018, he has lost earlier than the semifinal only to Nadal at the FO QF in 2022 in a full match. Otherwise he has retirements against Wawrinka in R4 at USO19, R4 default at the USO20 and QF walkover at FO24. He has won 12 Slams, lost 4 finals and 2 semifinals - the losses in SF/F have been to top 3 players like Thiem, Nadal, Medvedev, Alcaraz (twice) and Sinner.
 

ND-13

Legend
I don’t know why there is so much talk of Djokovic’s draw in Slams. It is not like he ever loses before the semifinal or loses to players outside the top 3 in Slams. Every draw is typically easy for him till he meets a top player in the semi or final.

Since his second career resurgence at Wimbledon 2018, he has lost earlier than the semifinal only to Nadal at the FO QF in 2022 in a full match. Otherwise he has retirements against Wawrinka in R4 at USO19, R4 default at the USO20 and QF walkover at FO24. He has won 12 Slams, lost 4 finals and 2 semifinals - the losses in SF/F have been to top 3 players like Thiem, Nadal, Medvedev, Alcaraz (twice) and Sinner.

With softer draws and byes , at the age Novak is , it helps him in going deep where required during second week

In USO 21, when he did not have a soft draw , he lost sets every round and that took its toll in the final
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
He said that wasn't the real Djokovic and then Djokovic went 21-1 after that match from Cincy to the ATP Finals, including 9-1 against the top 10, and the only loss was 7-6 in the 3rd. I fail to see any controversy in that statement.
He said it because Djokovic lost.
 

Quaichang

Professional
As far as Nikola Pilic is concerned, it wasn’t the real Novak Djokovic out there against Carlos Alcaraz at Wimbledon.

Alcaraz came back from a set down to defeat Djokovic in five sets to win his second career Grand Slam title as well as his first at the All-England Club.

Given the nature of the win — with the Spaniard notably being the first to defeat Djokovic in a completed match at Wimbledon since 2016 — many believe there will be a changing of the guard with Alcaraz spearheading it.

But Pilic, the ex-coach of Djokovic, believes this is nothing more than speculation.

“These are pure speculations by journalists,” Pilic told Meridian Sport (via Tennis 365). “It can be, but it doesn’t have to be. Let’s see what will happen at the US Open, where he (Alcaraz) defends 2000 points, and Novak doesn’t have to do anything.

“What will happen in 10 years? Are you going to tell me that Carlos will win 14 Roland Garros titles, or are you going to tell me that he will be number one for 400 weeks? Those are two records for all time.”

As for the match itself, Pilic was left to rue Djokovic’s mistakes and failed opportunities.

He even went as far as saying it wasn’t the real Serbian superstar out there on the day, specifically making note of how Djokovic’s serve appeared to be off.

“That was not the real Novak Djokovic,” he added. “It was not Novak’s day and Alcaraz himself admitted it. He could have won the second set, but he didn’t make those two backhands well [in the tiebreak] and his opponent took advantage of that.

“In the second set he completely fell, but in the fourth he got up and started playing well again. In the fifth, he made mistakes in his service and thus allowed Alcaraz to break. That was a problem in general during the match, the service movement didn’t look right.

“For example, in the [fourth round] match against [Hubert] Hurkacz, he served perfectly, and in the final, he did not make an ace for two whole sets. If only Novak had played as he knows how, he wouldn’t have lost.”

Perhaps there was an injury bothering Djokovic, or perhaps it was a case of Alcaraz simply being the better player on the occasion.

That wasn’t the real Federer that lost to Djokovic in 2019. The real Fed would have hit an ace at 40-15 to win the match in spectacular fashion.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Or maybe he said it because Djokovic choked on the big points and didn't serve worth a damn.
The real Novak showed in the Wimbledon 2024 final (kidding, of course he played the worse W final of his life).

On a serious note, as others have said, you only play as great as your opponent let you. Novak in 2023 got broken largely because he was facing the best grass returner in the world (Alcaraz). And in most TBs there's a choking element. That doesn't suggest the player choking is in bad shape. Nadal choked the set point in the TB of the W 2018 SF, yet I don't see Novak fansa saying "it wasn't the real Nadal".

Fact is, Novak played good at W 2023. He had serious chances to win the title and the match with Raz was super close. In 2023 in general Djokovic was playing great tennis, as he won 3 Slams + the ATP finals. Saying Novak played bad in the w 2023 final sounds like a poor sport excuse.
 
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NoleFam

Bionic Poster
The real Novak showed in the Wimbledon 2024 final.
37 year old Djokovic weeks after a knee surgery? Yea sure. Djokovic went 16-5 against the top 10 last year and is 0-3 so far this year. I get it that guys wanna troll now that the beast has weakened. It's a little late after he already destroyed the records last year, Lol.
It's a completely different match if Djokovic goes 2 sets up.
Yea exactly, and he made routine backhand errors on set points in that 2nd set tiebreak.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
With softer draws and byes , at the age Novak is , it helps him in going deep where required during second week

In USO 21, when he did not have a soft draw , he lost sets every round and that took its toll in the final
My point is there is no tough draw for him before a semifinal because he is so much better than everyone outside the top 3 or 5 at Slams. He can beat others even on a bad day when he is out of form or has a slight injury.

You are saying he had a tough draw in the USO2020 because he lost more sets. I would argue that he came in without playing for a month after the Olympics disaster and was losing sets because he was rusty. When he plays players outside the top 5, he loses sets or wins in straight sets based on his form and health, not because some lower ranked players are more difficult for him to play than others. In this Wimbledon he lost sets to Fearnley and Popyrin, but it is not because they are tougher opponents than those he beat in straight sets like Rune or Musetti - his confidence in his knee got better as the tournament progressed.

The only thing that is relevant in a draw right now is if he has to play both Sinner and Alcaraz to win a title or if he has to go through only one of them. Medvedev can be a threat also if he is playing well. Against all other players, Djokovic will be a heavy favorite in a Slam and it doesn’t matter who he plays.
 

SonnyT

Legend
I think Djokovic was the best player up to now. Whether Alcaraz is better than prime Djokovic will be up to what records and how good he will look. Maybe Carlos will be a generational player, of which Djokovic was not one!
 
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