Djokovic's most impressive achievement on clay?

[UnforcedTerror]

Clay is Djokovic's least favorite surface, yet he's still a beast on the surface.

In your opinion, what is his greatest clay achievement?

 

[Jokervich]

Only person to defeat Nadal at RG more than once. And one of two people to ever beat him there at all.

For the poll, I chose the last option.

 

[GabeT]

Where would Novak rank in clay if Nadal hadn’t been around?

 

[Beerus]

 

[RaulRamirez]

Where would Novak rank in clay if Nadal hadn’t been around?

We'll never know, but possibly third in the OE, after Rafa and Bjorn. Having written that, I'm not a big "what if" person.

 

[topher]

Connors made 8 straight QFs at RG and never made it past the SFs.

You can read that I suppose as Connors’ level is underrated on red clay or making the QFs is overrated.

Of course back then there were less seeds so if anything QFs were arguably more impressive back then.

 

[duaneeo]

Where would Novak rank in clay if Nadal hadn’t been around?

Why wasn't Djokovic able to end Nadal's clay dominance?

 

[GabeT]

We'll never know, but possibly third in the OE, after Rafa and Bjorn. Having written that, I'm not a big "what if" person.

So number 2 without Nadal around? Not a “what if” person either but in this case worth pondering

 

[GabeT]

Why wasn't Djokovic able to end Nadal's clay dominance?

???

 

[StrongRule]

Taking full advantage of the career inflation era and of RG organizers completely changing the conditions, turning their slam into DO.

 

[TripleATeam]

Being 2/3 of Nadal's RG losses.

The quarterfinals is impressive, but more impressively consistent than like "wow!" impressive to me. Multiple of all the Masters is great, but it doesn't add context of his era. 6 Romes in Nadal's era is certainly impressive, as well as beating Nadal at all the clay Big Titles, but I don't think they hold a candle to the magnitude of being responsible for over 60% of someone's losses at a tournament. I don't think anyone's even close to that.

 

[Hitman]

Dethroning Nadal at every single major clay event and going onto win the title. That is a herculean achievement, considering what Nadaland his legacy is to clay.

Most interesting thing is, Djokovic has beaten Nadal more on clay, than Nadal has beaten Djokovic on HC.

 

[Deleted member 762343]

Taking full advantage of the career inflation era and of RG organizers completely changing the conditions, turning their slam into DO.

 

[GabeT]

Taking full advantage of the career inflation era and of RG organizers completely changing the conditions, turning their slam into DO.

Is this what you came back to TTW for? Spam the same nonsense over and over?

 

[Bambooman]

Why wasn't Djokovic able to end Nadal's clay dominance?

He did last year.

 

[Third Serve]

Rome 2011

 

[LetWinner]

 

[duaneeo]

???

Nole fans praise him for beating Nadal at every major clay event. Why wouldn't Djokovic have wins over Nadal at every major clay event? Actually, Nole should've dominated the major clay events from 2011-2016. He surely had the physical game to put more of a dent in Rafa's accumulation of RG titles.

 

[NoleFam]

I choose all but question...if there were 5 Slams instead of 4 (2 on hard, 2 on clay and 1 on grass), with one with Madrid like clay conditions, would Djokovic's career on clay be better than Nadal's on hard? I ask this because Djokovic now has more Masters on clay (11) than Nadal does on hard (10) while having less opportunities to win them.

11/43 = 25.6%
10/75 = 13.3%

 

[RaulRamirez]

So number 2 without Nadal around? Not a “what if” person either but in this case worth pondering

Right. I guess he wouldn't be behind Rafa if Rafa wasn't around.
This has been discussed before in different ways, but it's all speculative. Some think Rafa's presence impeded Fed's clay legacy even more, but I think Novak is just a little stronger on clay than Roger. Would it allow Novak to climb above whoever people rate higher now --

So number 2 without Nadal around? Not a “what if” person either but in this case worth pondering

True. If Rafa wasn't around, then I guess he can't be behind him.
It's not all about RG, but in the OE, only (Rafa), Borg, Wilander, Lendl and Kuerten have won more FOs ( Wilander, Lendl and Kuerten each with 3) and several others have won at least 2.
It's reasonable that both Novak and Fed would've won at least 3 apiece of those 13 that Rafa would have vacated in this scenario. So yes, probably only Borg would be ahead, but life and tennis doesn't work that way. (Oops - I kind of replied twice.)

 

[GabeT]

Nole fans praise him for beating Nadal at every major clay event. Why wouldn't Djokovic have wins over Nadal at every major clay event? Actually, Nole should've dominated the major clay events from 2011-2016. He surely had the physical game to put more of a dent in Rafa's accumulation of RG titles.

Novak was (and may remain) Nadal’s biggest challenge on clay but no one thinks that means Novak is at the same level on clay

 

[TheNachoMan]

Rome 2011

Epic kit and strong era draw.

 

[LeungD]

Did Nadal bagel anyone else in a RG final?

 

[ghostofMecir]

Beat Nadalito twice at RG.

And, overall, has been more competitive on clay vs. Nadal than Nadal has been against him on hardcourts.

Djokovic vs. Nadal on clay: 48.4% total points won, .92 dominance ratio
Nadal vs. Djokovic on hard: 46.6% total points won, .82 dominance ratio

Those two USO finals that Nadal beat Djoko and really outplayed him solidly hurt Djoko.

 

[Third Serve]

Epic kit and strong era draw.

the Murrovic semi was also one of the good ones

 

[The_Order]

Dethroning Nadal at every single major clay event and going onto win the title. That is a herculean achievement, considering what Nadaland his legacy is to clay.

Most interesting thing is, Djokovic has beaten Nadal more on clay, than Nadal has beaten Djokovic on HC.

Thanks 2015/16 crapdal and 2017 disappearovic

 

[MichaelNadal]

Did Nadal bagel anyone else in a RG final?

Borg is probably saying "Damn you came through and slayed"

 

[maratha_warrior]

Some Nadal fans are funny :
On one hand they say Nadal had a tough rival on Clay ( Djokovic ) and on other hand they refuse to acknowledge Djokovic's greatness on clay

 

[Biotic]

Borg is probably saying "Damn you came through and slayed"

Borg is actually saying "Damn, what a weak @SS clay era lol".

 

[MichaelNadal]

Borg is actually saying "Damn, what a weak @SS clay era lol".

Imagine putting 08 Nadal on court today. The bakery products would be raining

 

[LeungD]

Borg is probably saying "Damn you came through and slayed"

Nope. That never happened.

 

[StrongRule]

Is this what you came back to TTW for? Spam the same nonsense over and over?

It's not nonsense. It is just sad that some Djokovic fans try to act like the conditions haven't changed in RG and like it's still the same tournament. Ironically, these users are usually the first ones to complain about AO 2022 "asterisk".

 

[Hitman]

Some Nadal fans are funny :
On one hand they say Nadal had a tough rival on Clay ( Djokovic ) and on other hand they refuse to acknowledge Djokovic's greatness on clay

It's called having your cake and eating it.

 

[jl809]

2011 for me. He had prime, healthy Nadal, for the only time in his career, absolutely clueless about how to beat someone on clay, and mentally beaten by the end of their Rome match. If he hadn’t been up against Federer’s best RG level ever, he would have beaten Nadal in the RG final and that win would have been miles and miles above his other 2 RG wins over him.

 

[I Am Finnish]

 

[I Am Finnish]

Taking full advantage of the career inflation era and of RG organizers completely changing the conditions, turning their slam into DO.

We get it Egg Open next

 

[MichaelNadal]

It's all impressive tbh. Both he and Fed would have outstanding clay numbers without Nadal.

 

[RS]

It's all impressive tbh. Both he and Fed would have outstanding clay numbers without Nadal.

Djokovic doesn't need the outside of Nadal argument as much only Fed does tbh

 

[NatF]

As a Federer fan it's obviously the QF streak.

 

[Hitman]

It's not nonsense. It is just sad that some Djokovic fans try to act like the conditions haven't changed in RG and like it's still the same tournament. Ironically, these users are usually the first ones to complain about AO 2022 "asterisk".

Nadal is the greatest on clay, the greatest shouldn't be that vulnerable to changes in conditions. It kind of goes against him being the greatest.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Djokovic doesn't need the outside of Nadal argument as much only Fed does tbh

True

 

[StrongRule]

Nadal is the greatest on clay, the greatest shouldn't be that vulnerable to changes in conditions. It kind of goes against him being the greatest.

This is not clay anymore, it's like red hardcourt. Nadal feels more comfortable in AO than in these "clay" night sessions. You can't underrate such big changes, especially when you are 35-36 years old.

 

[Hitman]

This is not clay anymore, it's like red hardcourt. Nadal feels more comfortable in AO than in these "clay" night sessions. You can't underrate such big changes, especially when you are 35-36 years old.

Nadal would lose a lot worse to Djokovic at AO in those night sessions, than at the RG night though, that is Djokovic's hunting ground. Nadal on clay always has a chance to get into every rally, and make things happen by moving Djokovic around with his forehand, we saw what happened in AO 2019 final in night session how Djokovic can literally take Nadal out of the match with his serving alone.

 

[maratha_warrior]

This is not clay anymore, it's like red hardcourt. Nadal feels more comfortable in AO than in these "clay" night sessions. You can't underrate such big changes, especially when you are 35-36 years old.

Nadal bagelled and almost destroyed Novak on the same court that too indoors .
Such underrating of Nadal is actually disrespectful for Nadal . Is Nadal one dimensional who can only play in day time only ??
Are you really his fan ?

 

[Bumbaliceps]

This is not clay anymore, it's like red hardcourt. Nadal feels more comfortable in AO than in these "clay" night sessions. You can't underrate such big changes, especially when you are 35-36 years old.

Did the surface change ?

 

[Hitman]

Nadal bagelled and almost destroyed Novak on the same court that too indoors .
Such underrating of Nadal is actually disrespectful for Nadal . Is Nadal one dimensional who can only play in day time only ??
Are you really his fan ?

That was Nadal's most dominant showing over Djokovic at RG, and it happened in a night session indoors.

 

[StrongRule]

Nadal bagelled and almost destroyed Novak on the same court that too indoors .
Such underrating of Nadal is actually disrespectful for Nadal . Is Nadal one dimensional who can only play in day time only ??
Are you really his fan ?

As if Djokovic any different. It's just the opposite for him. He was hardly relevant in RG after 2016, before the organizers decided to make these crazy changes. This is not being talked a lot because it's not his favorite surface. But imagine if the conditions in AO changed so much and became worse for him. There would be lots of complaining.

 

[StrongRule]

Did the surface change ?

Yes. The type of clay changed, the balls changed, the time of the matches has changed...They changed everything. And somehow every change they made is perfect for Djokovic.

 

[Bumbaliceps]

Yes. The type of clay changed, the balls changed, the time of the matches has changed...They changed everything. And somehow every change they made is perfect for Djokovic.

The clay didn't change. I know you try to spread this fake news since 2020, but no.

You litterally invented this information.

 

[InsideOut900]

But imagine if the conditions in AO changed so much and became worse for him. There would be lots of complaining.

But he won AO on the slowest ones in 2011/2012 and on the fastest ones in 2020/2021