Djokovic's signature shot

Robert Baratheon

Professional
Djokovic's signature is that he's stretchy
So sexi, so nimble, so athleticc

Nothing more athletic than that in tennis.
Nothing more perfect.

Sexy obviously is a subjective term so I can't speak for everyone but along with the Fraud BH flick, the Djoko full stretch sliding shots especially the BH ones are the sexiest to me.

Rafa's FH DTL pass(also banana) and Fraud's I/O FH come second.
 

OhYes

Legend
I'm not offended and I think it is funny. I would respond by posting videos of Rafa's best forehands. You should respond by posting videos of Novak's best overheads.

Novak fans are not the same as Federer fans that are making videos of best overheads, best serves, and other idiotic things that are not for compilation. He does have video of his returns, stretching, passing shots and maybe even volleys which are more complicated to do than some overheads.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
This is a perfectly lighthearted thread. I don't know why everyone is getting so hot under the collar about it. Djokovic's record as one of the greatest players ever speaks for itself, but no one can deny that seeing him attempt overheads is funny.
Actually, any fair poster knows that if his overhead was really that weak, day in and day out, he would not be where he is. I've seen him hit plenty of good overheads, and I'm not a fan.
 

clayqueen

G.O.A.T.
Nad's signature: return to servebots on grass

Fed's signature: serving for match points
Only servebots with nothing to lose. Rafa beat Karlovic and Roddick at Queens and he's 1:1 against Kyrgios and Rosol at Wimbledon. Once Kyrgios and Rosol had something to prove the 2nd time round, Rafa beat them on grass.
 

Rosstour

Hall of Fame
Artistry is in the eye of the beholder
Statements like these feel really good to say, but the objective facts say that Djokovic is far worse at overheads than his peers.

Fedal can not only put away those easy overheads, but they can do it on the backhand side too.

Djok's artistry, if anywhere, can be found in his legs. But, not in his strokes.
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
Statements like these feel really good to say, but the objective facts say that Djokovic is far worse at overheads than his peers.

Fedal can not only put away those easy overheads, but they can do it on the backhand side too.

Djok's artistry, if anywhere, can be found in his legs. But, not in his strokes.
If he could win 16 Slams and 13 of them by beating the "artistic" Fedal with just his legs, then imagine what he could do if he actually had hands.
 

Rosstour

Hall of Fame
If he could win 16 Slams and 13 of them by beating the "artistic" Fedal with just his legs, then imagine what he could do if he actually had hands.
Right. It's kinda scary. But, that's why tennis is fun. No one does everything perfectly. All of the Big 3 have weaknesses, but they hide them so well with their strengths. Even Federer.
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
Statements like these feel really good to say, but the objective facts say that Djokovic is far worse at overheads than his peers.

Fedal can not only put away those easy overheads, but they can do it on the backhand side too.
The data confirms that he's worse than Fedal, but not by as much as people might think (data from tennisabstract):

winners (and induced forced errors) per smash (W/SM), errors per smash (E/SM), and points won per smash (PTS/SM)
Code:
PLAYER              W/SM  E/SM  PTS/SM
Jo-Wilfried Tsonga   78%    6%     90%
Tomas Berdych        76%    6%     88%
Pete Sampras         75%    7%     86%
Roger Federer        73%    7%     86%
Rafael Nadal         69%    7%     84%
Milos Raonic         73%    9%     82%
Andy Murray          67%    6%     82%
Kei Nishikori        68%   11%     81%
David Ferrer         71%    9%     81%
Andre Agassi         67%    8%     80%
Novak Djokovic       66%    9%     80%
Stefan Edberg        62%   12%     78%
Stan Wawrinka        65%   10%     77%
Ivan Lendl           57%   13%     71%
Right off the bat you can see there are contemporary players who miss smashes more often than Djokovic does in Wawrinka and Nishikori, and Raonic and Ferrer miss just as often. But they don't get nearly as much flak as Novak does. Fedal only miss 2% less often.

Despite Djokovic's relatively high error rate, he's still winning 80% of the points where he hits a smash... And there are geniuses on this thread like @tonylg who suggest feeding the guy endless overheads to beat him... Yeah, if by "winning" you mean losing 0 and 0 every single time.
 
Last edited:

clayqueen

G.O.A.T.
Right off the bat you can see there are contemporary players who miss smashes more often than Djokovic does (Wawrinka and Nishikori), and Raonic and Ferrer miss just as often. But they don't get nearly as much flak as Novak does. Fedal only miss 2% less often.
Rafa plays far more overheads than Novak so % tells you nothing. Djokovic misses most of the few times he attempts to do overheads.

 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
Rafa plays far more overheads than Novak so % tells you nothing.
I find this very hard to believe as the data shows Nadal comes to the net far less often than Djokovic does

Djokovic misses most of the few times he attempts to do overheads.
The data already shows that's false. He misses only 9% of his overheads (to Nadal's 7%). That's not even close to "most."

66% of Djokovic's OHs result in him immediately winning the point with a winner or forced error (Nadal: 69%). He ends up winning 80% of the points where he hits a smash (Nadal: 84%).
 

clayqueen

G.O.A.T.
I find this very hard to believe as the data shows Nadal comes to the net far less often than Djokovic does


The data already shows that's false. He misses only 9% of his overheads (to Nadal's 7%). That's not even close to "most."

66% of them result in Novak immediately winning the point. He ends up winning 80% of the points where he hits a smash.
Is the data official?
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
Is the data official?
It's actual data from a reputable tennis statistics site. If you have official (or even unofficial) data disproving these stats, feel free to post them.

I will also remind you that the plural of anecdote is not data. Random compilations posted on Youtube are anecdotal evidence. They don't prove anything, just as a compilation of Nadal botching volleys and overheads wouldn't prove he is a bad net player
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
I think why Novak gets a lot of flak for this is because he's an ATG, and people have to nitpick something. Though I am still of the opinion that his overhead is quite bad, you give him something relatively difficult and he'll struggle to put it away or make the error. He's also very passive with the shot, unlike others who hit the overhead with a lot more authority even from more difficult positions.

I'm trying to think how good Novak is on the bounce smash, but I can't really remember right now...
 

clayqueen

G.O.A.T.
It's actual data from a reputable tennis statistics site. If you have official (or even unofficial) data disproving these stats, feel free to post them.

I will also remind you that the plural of anecdote is not data. Random compilations posted on Youtube are anecdotal evidence. They don't prove anything, just as a compilation of Nadal botching volleys and overheads wouldn't prove he is a bad net player
Could you post some videos of Novak's great overheads?
 

clayqueen

G.O.A.T.
The data confirms that he's worse than Fedal, but not by as much as people might think (data from tennisabstract):

winners (and induced forced errors) per smash (W/SM), errors per smash (E/SM), and points won per smash (PTS/SM)
Code:
PLAYER              W/SM  E/SM  PTS/SM
Jo-Wilfried Tsonga   78%    6%     90%
Tomas Berdych        76%    6%     88%
Pete Sampras         75%    7%     86%
Roger Federer        73%    7%     86%
Rafael Nadal         69%    7%     84%
Milos Raonic         73%    9%     82%
Andy Murray          67%    6%     82%
Kei Nishikori        68%   11%     81%
David Ferrer         71%    9%     81%
Andre Agassi         67%    8%     80%
Novak Djokovic       66%    9%     80%
Stefan Edberg        62%   12%     78%
Stan Wawrinka        65%   10%     77%
Ivan Lendl           57%   13%     71%
Right off the bat you can see there are contemporary players who miss smashes more often than Djokovic does in Wawrinka and Nishikori, and Raonic and Ferrer miss just as often. But they don't get nearly as much flak as Novak does. Fedal only miss 2% less often.

Despite Djokovic's relatively high error rate, he's still winning 80% of the points where he hits a smash... And there are geniuses on this thread like @tonylg who suggest feeding the guy endless overheads to beat him... Yeah, if by "winning" you mean losing 0 and 0 every single time.
These stats are bogus
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
You need to provide some evidence to back up the statistics. The stats don't bear any resemblance to reality.
If Djokovic winning 4 out of 5 points where he hits a smash "doesn't bear any resemblance to reality," then you are not paying any attention to his matches

If he really did lose "most" of his overhead points, then constantly bringing him in and lobbing him would actually be a viable winning strategy. But nobody does it, and that should immediately tell you something is off with that assessment

A compilation video spanning 10+ years of his career (almost 800 matches in that span) that comes up with 10 misses in doesn't really tell us much at all, other than that he's had some spectacularly bad misses
 
Last edited:

StANDAA

Legend
If Djokovic winning 4 out of 5 points where he hits a smash "doesn't bear any resemblance to reality," then you are not paying any attention to his matches

If he really did lose "most" of his overhead points, then constantly bringing him in and lobbing him would actually be a viable winning strategy. But nobody does it, and that should immediately tell you something is off with that assessment

A compilation video spanning 10+ years of his career a coming up with 10 misses doesn't really tell us much at all, other than that he's had some spectacularly bad misses
why do you still waste time on her? do you really think it is going somewhere?
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
The data confirms that he's worse than Fedal, but not by as much as people might think (data from tennisabstract):

winners (and induced forced errors) per smash (W/SM), errors per smash (E/SM), and points won per smash (PTS/SM)
Code:
PLAYER              W/SM  E/SM  PTS/SM
Jo-Wilfried Tsonga   78%    6%     90%
Tomas Berdych        76%    6%     88%
Pete Sampras         75%    7%     86%
Roger Federer        73%    7%     86%
Rafael Nadal         69%    7%     84%
Milos Raonic         73%    9%     82%
Andy Murray          67%    6%     82%
Kei Nishikori        68%   11%     81%
David Ferrer         71%    9%     81%
Andre Agassi         67%    8%     80%
Novak Djokovic       66%    9%     80%
Stefan Edberg        62%   12%     78%
Stan Wawrinka        65%   10%     77%
Ivan Lendl           57%   13%     71%
Right off the bat you can see there are contemporary players who miss smashes more often than Djokovic does in Wawrinka and Nishikori, and Raonic and Ferrer miss just as often. But they don't get nearly as much flak as Novak does. Fedal only miss 2% less often.

Despite Djokovic's relatively high error rate, he's still winning 80% of the points where he hits a smash... And there are geniuses on this thread like @tonylg who suggest feeding the guy endless overheads to beat him... Yeah, if by "winning" you mean losing 0 and 0 every single time.
Yea I remember breaking it down like a year or two ago, and the data shows his percentage is nowhere near some posters on this site claim to know it to be and he had a pretty successful rate. I didn't even bother entertaining this topic again because no matter how hard you try, some of these people will never learn.
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
Yea I remember breaking it down like a year or two ago, and the data shows his percentage is nowhere near some posters on this site claim to know it to be and he had a pretty successful rate. I didn't even bother entertaining this topic again because no matter how hard you try, some of these people will never learn.
I have a bunch of full matches from Djokovic saved on my computer... One of these days I'll put together a compilation of every single overhead he hits in them. It's a lot of effort because it's literally days of footage. And I fully expect people who see want they want to see to remain unconvinced
 
Top