joekapa
Legend
Also, without wanting to disrespect Nadal......Djokovic has been more dominant 2011 onwards. In terms of titles, YE#1, and weeks at #1........
Djokovic's Victory seems to have garnered a lot of publicity
- Thread starter GoldenSwing
- Start date
No, if Djokovic beats Federer in Slam count, he is both the best of this era and GOAT. Until then, it’s Federer. Maybe we could call the 2010s an own "era", and then Djokovic would be the best of THIS era even now. I have no problem with this.
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
I've seen this kind of argument going on for years, and every time one of the Big 3 goes on a tear, that fan base goes nuts. I just watch tennis and I'm content to see what happens after all of them retire. Anything else is premature.
So far everyone has been very wrong about all three. I see no reason why you or I will be right this time. Relax, enjoy the tennis and just watch what happens.
Thinker_145
Rookie
And you can ask the same question to Novak. He would instantly trade any of his other GS titles for another RG. And in any case that's not a relevant point to what I was saying.
Thinker_145
Rookie
But Tennis existed before 2011(shocking I know) and domination is looked at on a career level not with cherry picked time periods.
joekapa
Legend
You may be right. But he does have quite few M1000 clay titles. He is not that shabby on clay.
joekapa
Legend
8 years is not exactly a cherry picked period. Nadal has been there too.
Look, I am not saying Nadal is not a GOAT. By all means he is. Moreso than Fed. I just don't think he has dominated the tour as much as Novak. And the age argument doesn't stand as they basically have a 10 month age difference.
Nadal arrived earlier (especially on clay), I'll give you that.
Thinker_145
Rookie
Dude I was never arguing that he dominated the tour more than Novak. I quoted the post which suggested that Novak dominated Nadal which at this moment in time is simply not true. Maybe in 2 years time it will but that's an if for now.
Terenigma
G.O.A.T.
I think maybe people are starting to catch on that Djokovic might be the new slam leader in a couple of years. I think Federer just missed his chance to extend his lead for the final time, i don't think he will get another chance and that leaves his total at 20. Very do'able for both Nadal and Djokovic but whilst i do think Nadal will forever be the favourite at Roland Garros. I just can't see him beating Djokovic anywhere else and unless one of the young gen actually steps up then that's at least 6 slams for him to feast on. Possibly even more.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
There is no way Djokovic would trade any of his Wimbledon or AO titles for another RG title. He has one of them so it doesn't matter anymore. Wimbledon is the holy grail and he did it 5 times. He's not giving that up under any circumstances.
Rabe87
Professional
Quite the contrary I love the clay season, I love playing on it the most, I adore clay.
But in a Novak vs. Nadal H2H contest over their careers, taking into account how lopsided their rivalry has been on HC and grass, it's a no-contest.
2011: Novak defeats Nadal in the AO, IW, Miami, Wimby, USO finals.
# of WTF titles won: Novak 5, Nadal 0
# of AO won: Novak 7, Nadal 1
# of Wimby's won: Novak 5, Nadal 2
Novak has beaten Nadal at RG
Nadal has not beaten Novak at AO or Wimby
Novak has defended multiple times at 2 separate Slams (AO & Wimby), Nadal has only defended a GS at RG.
Can I go on or have you been put back in your box.
Thinker_145
Rookie
lolz we are talking about H2H not career achievements nice try though.
They have only faced each other twice at AO, it took Djokovic 7 tries to beat him at RG. Because Djokovic isn't as dominant on AO as Nadal is on RG so Nadal played 3 AO finals without having to face Djokovic. So it isn't just his fault that they only have 2 matches at AO.
Nadal has beaten Djokovic at Wimbledon. The world existed before 2011 holy **** that must be a shock to all of you. How you wish the world started in 2011 but that's not how it works.
Nadal also leads US Open H2H 2-1. Now go back to your delusions of clay and pre 2011 not existing. [emoji23]
Rabe87
Professional
If we're only talking about H2H, Novak leads Nadal. You lose. Learn to debate. First you claim it wasn't about H2H, then you now claim it was when faced with some startling facts about Djok dominating Nads. Bottom line is, and I'm totally fine with this one, H2H is in Novaks favour. Case closed - learn to debate.
Thinker_145
Rookie
Sure I guess he wouldn't trade the AO record. But you honestly think he would rather finish his career with 5 wimbledon and 1 RG instead of 4 wimbledon and 2 RG? That would be pretty stupid.
Yes right now he would probably only trade a USO for FO but that's because he senses a minute chance however improbable but not impossible to get to 8 wimbledon and he perhaps is also confident that he will win another FO anyways.
Thinker_145
Rookie
Have you even been following this thread? I merely replied to a comment which suggested that Djokovic dominated Nadal. Leading the H2H by 2 wins does not equal dominance. Then when we further break down slam H2H we see that Nadal leads overall and on 2 slams. If that's "dominance" then fine I guess. [emoji23]
Rabe87
Professional
AO
2012: Novak def. Nadal in the final
2019: Novak def. Nadal in the final
Wimby
2011: Novak def. Nadal in the final
USO
2011: Novak def. Nadal in the final
4-2 in non-clay GS finals.
Rogfan
Professional
His marketer will take note? Would you like to take a bet, a year or 2 from now, who has the highest income amongst tennis players? I say Roger Federer. Who do you say?
Fed’s marketing or image is not based on him being the so-called GOAT or winning the most. It appears you don’t know much about him and marketing.
Rogfan
Professional
When Uniqlo signed that 30 mil 10-year deal with Federer last year, did they think he was going to dominate the tour and win many more slams at the age of 36/37 onwards? They said in the very beginning that their interest was with Fed post retirement. Salty Djoker fans, maybe your guy will indeed end up having all the numbers and records, but if you think this loss will result in any financial or popularity loss to Fed, you can’t be more wrong. I guess it’s hard to deal with the fact that you can win everything except most fans heart. Ohh and watch Fed continues to be the ATP fan favourite at the end of the year
joekapa
Legend
Rabe87
Professional
You had your chance to be spared, now you look a bit silly trying to claim Nadal has a better H2H. As Tyra Banks famously said: Learn from this.
MugOpponent
Hall of Fame
I'm fine if you believe this but if Nadal detractors are going to argue for this, then they can't say trading a RG for another slam makes him a better player. Rafa has won them all as well and frequently goes far in all these events.
Rabe87
Professional
Yet he can't even use his RF logo because Nike owns it. He's a by-product of Nike marketing, he can win whatever awards he likes, he'll need them now that he's been exposed as the fake-GOAT.When Uniqlo signed that 30 mil 10-year deal with Federer last year, did they think he was going to dominate the tour and win many more slams at the age of 36/37 onwards? They said in the very beginning that their interest was with Fed post retirement. Salty Djoker fans, maybe your guy will indeed end up having all the numbers and records, but if you think this loss will result in any financial or popularity loss to Fed, you can’t be more wrong. I guess it’s hard to deal with the fact that you can win everything except most fans heart. Ohh and watch Fed continues to be the ATP fan favourite at the end of the year
Thinker_145
Rookie
Wrong info. Wimbledon Novak leads 2-1 and Nadal leads USO 2-1.
Thinker_145
Rookie
Never said Nadal leads H2H. I simply stated that Novak has not dominated Nadal in his career because he has a slender overall H2H lead where as he trails in the GS H2H. Both Novak and Nadal dominate Federer that's what domination looks like.
Off clay or only clay are both irrelevant arguments, overall numbers are what matter. And tennis existed before 2011. I am done with this.
MugOpponent
Hall of Fame
The narrative of Federer's GOAThood has always been absurdly premature. He's currently the most accomplished player but he's also older and has been playing longer. The odds of both Nadal and Djokovic getting to 20 is more likely than not.
Rabe87
Professional
And I've stated their overall H2H, Novak leads, and he's only gotten better as their respective careers have gone on, but of course Nadals 'ageing' despite being 11 months older. You lose gurl.
Thinker_145
Rookie
Hey not my job to cure delusions. You don't have to be so butthurt. Chances are looking good for your man to eclipse Nadal but as of right now he is behind. It's as simple as that.
MugOpponent
Hall of Fame
I don't know. Winning 28 of 54 matches isn't exactly decisive. If Nadal somehow wins the next three, I don't think many Rafa fans are going to make a big deal about leading the H2H.
Thinker_145
Rookie
Yes he has gotten better but has not established a material lead overall yet. Dominance is over a career not over a few years. Nadal dominated Djokovic for a lot of years and that COUNTS when we compare the H2H battles between the 2. And given their similar age all the matches they have played would always be equally relevant for their rivalry.
Rabe87
Professional
Nadal dominated Djok for many years? Really? When were they? Because last time I checked, Nads has bested Djok in 2 non-clay finals in the past 11 years. On the flipside, Djok has won 6 non-clay GS finals. Anywhere you look apart from the RG H2H, Novak has the advantage. The only reason it's so close, is RG. Tennis is a sport for all seasons and all surfaces, and Nads is not an ATG off the dirt.
Rogfan
Professional
Get my financial fact straight? Sinking ship? How about you tell me how much is his Uniqlo deal if you so much facts?
How about googling ‘highest earning athletes’? Is Forbes a credible source for you? https://www.forbes.com/athletes/#394a69bf55ae
A sinking ship who’s the number 5 highest earning athlete and #1 tennis player. I sincerely hope your GOAT will catch up in the 2020 list.
xFedal
Legend
When did Nadal take 3 sets on at Wimbledon against Djokovic?
Thinker_145
Rookie
Jesus Christ you guys are just hopeless with your off clay arguments. Kudos to Nadal for dominating a surface so brutally that people have started this desperate argument. I am truly done with this non sense argument.
Rogfan
Professional
Oh it's DEFINATELY based on that.
Remember this ?
If it’s so definitely based on the trophies, I dare you to come back here in a year’s time and see if Roger or Novak ranks higher in the highest earning athletes list. In June 2019 Roger is #5 and Novak #17. Djoker was already winning a lot more than Roger since a few years ago but that hasn’t translated to sponsorship income. If you’re so confident this Wimbledon is gonna change everything, let’s just come back in June 2020.
xFedal
Legend
Novak is guaranteed 270 weeks at No.1 minimum.... 80+ weeks over Nadal.... soon he will have 100+ weeks at No.1 advantage over Nadal.
Thinker_145
Rookie
Ah yes so getting injured in the 3rd set being down a double break and 2 sets is not a loss. Right. [emoji1787][emoji1787]
xFedal
Legend
First let Nadal beat Djokovic by taking 3 sets at Wimbledon then will talk...
Rabe87
Professional
So the GOAT is determined by sponsorship deals? Hmm, I never knew.
Thanks for being insightful and completely off-topic, you can leave now.
Thinker_145
Rookie
Nadal has beaten him at Wimbledon that was the discussion. Not about number of sets. So go cry at a corner.
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